The Ultimate Zen: AMD's Zen 3 Achieves 89% Higher Performance Than First-generation Zen

Raevenlord · Dec 21, 2020

An investigative, generation-upon-generation review from golem.de paints an extremely impressive picture for AMD's efforts in iterating upon their original Zen architecture. While the first generation Zen achieved a sorely needed inflection point in the red team's efforts against arch-rival Intel and its stranglehold in the high-performance CPU market, AMD couldn't lose its vision on generational performance improvements on pain of being steamrolled (pun intended) by the blue giant's sheer scale and engineering prowess. However, perhaps this is one of those showcases of "small is nimble", and we're now watching Intel slowly changing its posture, crushed under its own weight, so as to offer actual competition to AMD's latest iteration of the Zen microarchitecture.

The golem.de review compares AMD's Zen, Zen+, Zen 2 and Zen 3 architectures, represented by the Ryzen 7 1800X, Ryzen 7 2700X, Ryzen 7 3800X and Ryzen 7 5800X CPUs. Through it, we see a generational performance increase that mostly exceeds the 20% performance points across every iteration of Zen when it comes to both gaming and general computing workloads. This generational improvement hits its (nowadays) most expressive result in that AMD's Ryzen 7 5800X manages to deliver 89% higher general computing, and 84% higher gaming performance than the company's Zen-based Ryzen 7 1800X. And this, of course, ignoring performance/watt improvements that turn the blue giant green with envy.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

the54thvoid · Dec 21, 2020

Is it 189% higher, or 189%? Reason being is 100% higher means twice as fast. It depends on how the wording is phrased. If product 'B' is 100% the performance of product 'A', it is equal. If product 'B' is 100% 'faster', it is twice the speed. Semantics means everything with percentile comparisons. to state it is 189% higher means it is almost twice as fast. Only asking as I'm unsure how much better Zen 3 is. I know it's awesome, but how much awesome?

Raevenlord · Dec 21, 2020

the54thvoid said:
Is it 189% higher, or 189%? Reason being is 100% higher means twice as fast. It depends on how the wording is phrased. If product 'B' is 100% the performance of product 'A', it is equal. If product 'B' is 100% 'faster', it is twice the speed. Semantics means everything with percentile comparisons. to state it is 189% higher means it is almost twice as fast. Only asking as I'm unsure how much better Zen 3 is. I know it's awesome, but how much awesome?

Actually, it delivers 189% of the baseline 100% performacne of Zen 1 (so, 89%, or almost double the performance, as you said). I fixed an error in the story. But yeah, it's awesome - almost twice as awesome.

mouacyk · Dec 21, 2020

Yeah, it's pretty awesome, but also badly needed to stay competitive. Anyone can compare the statistics to Intel's advances in same time, number of generations, node progress?

Chris34 · Dec 21, 2020

the54thvoid said:
Is it 189% higher, or 189%? Reason being is 100% higher means twice as fast. It depends on how the wording is phrased. If product 'B' is 100% the performance of product 'A', it is equal. If product 'B' is 100% 'faster', it is twice the speed. Semantics means everything with percentile comparisons. to state it is 189% higher means it is almost twice as fast. Only asking as I'm unsure how much better Zen 3 is. I know it's awesome, but how much awesome?

The Gen to Gen percentage uplift is literally on the right of the percentages you don't understand...

Makaveli · Dec 21, 2020

mouacyk said:
Yeah, it's pretty awesome, but also badly needed to stay competitive. Anyone can compare the statistics to Intel's advances in same time, number of generations, node progress?

I would love to see this from First Gen Skylake all the way to 14++++++++++ Coffee lake

harm9963 · Dec 21, 2020

First off , paid a pretty penny for my 5800X , $450 plus tax { luxury } , vs my $129 plus tax 2700X , SOTTR 1080p highest - 122 VS 136 , subjective for sure , but i knew that, or as my Grandfather would say -“A fool and his money are easily parted”

EatingDirt · Dec 21, 2020

mouacyk said:
Yeah, it's pretty awesome, but also badly needed to stay competitive. Anyone can compare the statistics to Intel's advances in same time, number of generations, node progress?

Edit: Got the core count wrong for the 9700k.

Hard to compare Intel through 4 Generations.

7700k was a 4/8 Core Part
8700k was a 6/12 Core Part
9700k was a 8/8 Core Part
9900k was a 8/16 Core Part
10600k was a 6/12 Core Part
10900k was a 10/20 Core Part

9700k is 0.2% faster in CPU tests & 2% faster in Gaming(720p) than the 8700k.
10600k is 5.2% faster in CPU tests & 2.2% faster in Gaming(720p) than the 9700k

Total uplift in 3 generations is 5.4% in CPU tests & 4.2% faster in Gaming(720p).

If we ignore the core parts and only go by flagships for 4 generations(which ignores this AMD comparison, based off of cores):
10900k is 42% faster than the 7700k in CPU tests & 11.8% faster in Gaming(720p) based off of the 8700k review that has the 7700k, and the 10900k review with the 8700k in it.

mouacyk · Dec 21, 2020

Makaveli said:
I would love to see this from First Gen Skylake all the way to 14++++++++++ Coffee lake

For sure, a more objective comparison of perf/time, perf/nm, perf/$, and (if possible) perf/$RnD would be very revealing between the two companies.

zlobby · Dec 21, 2020

the54thvoid said:
I know it's awesome, but how much awesome?

It's the most awesomest!!!

Meanwhile, intel bragging with 1% increase gen-over-gen...

dirtyferret · Dec 21, 2020

Are people actually buying this crap? TPU had the the 2700x as 6% better in gaming at 720p and that number decreases as you increase the resolution. TPU has the 3800x 13% better at 720p gaming than the 2700x. I'm not knocking the improvements but lets use some reality here.

Caring1 · Dec 21, 2020

Chris34 said:
The Gen to Gen percentage uplift is literally on the right of the percentages you don't understand...

Or as there are only percentages shown and no baseline numbers, it is impossible to verify the accuracy of the claimed figures.
How were those figures achieved?

TheoneandonlyMrK · Dec 21, 2020

harm9963 said:
First off , paid a pretty penny for my 5800X , $450 plus tax { luxury } , vs my $129 plus tax 2700X , SOTTR 1080p highest - 122 VS 136 , subjective for sure , but i knew that, or as my Grandfather would say -“A fool and his money are easily parted”

I don't want to sound dismissive but in other use cases, some running 24/7 there are gains closer to that shown, but I would agree this seems a lot.
And they go as low as the 1800X as the start point not 2nd gen.

Fluffmeister · Dec 21, 2020

dirtyferret said:
Are people actually buying this crap? TPU had the the 2700x as 6% better in gaming at 720p and that number decreases as you increase the resolution. TPU has the 3800x 13% better at 720p gaming than the 2700x. I'm not knocking the improvements but lets use some reality here.

Indeed, the biggest change is finding one to buy!

Caring1 · Dec 21, 2020

Perhaps IPC would have been a better unit of measure for improvement.

wahdangun · Dec 21, 2020

dirtyferret said:
Are people actually buying this crap? TPU had the the 2700x as 6% better in gaming at 720p and that number decreases as you increase the resolution. TPU has the 3800x 13% better at 720p gaming than the 2700x. I'm not knocking the improvements but lets use some reality here.

yes, because when you increasing resolution, its become more gpu bound and useless as CPU bechmark.

mechtech · Dec 21, 2020

"While the first generation Zen achieved a sorely needed inflection point in the red team's efforts against arch-rival Intel "

Ummm wasn't/isn't AMD green? and ATi red?

http://www.buildorbuy.org/themes/1024/directron_amd-xp.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OXtTelrwIgc/TeIiR0FGcQI/AAAAAAAAAS8/kkh9BvfBe2o/s1600/Amd+Athlon+Wallpaper4.jpg

HTC · Dec 22, 2020

Caring1 said:
Or as there are only percentages shown and no baseline numbers, it is impossible to verify the accuracy of the claimed figures.
How were those figures achieved?

The source is listed but you have to view the article from TPU's main site.

In German, btw.

dyonoctis · Dec 22, 2020

mechtech said:
"While the first generation Zen achieved a sorely needed inflection point in the red team's efforts against arch-rival Intel "

Ummm wasn't/isn't AMD green? and ATi red?

http://www.buildorbuy.org/themes/1024/directron_amd-xp.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OXtTelrwIgc/TeIiR0FGcQI/AAAAAAAAAS8/kkh9BvfBe2o/s1600/Amd+Athlon+Wallpaper4.jpg

Once they acquired ATI they had to make a choice :"Intel is blue, Nvidia is green, we are now doing gpu, so Red it is".
Also since Ryzen, I don't think that I've seen them used the classic green logo on their official document, right now is either black or white...

dicktracy · Dec 22, 2020

Too bad they’re leaving their fanboys in the slums with their nonstop price hikes.

watzupken · Dec 22, 2020

I don't know how accurate is the number published, but I do know that the improvement in performance from the first gen Zen up to Zen 3 is certainly not a small double digit percentage even if we look purely at the IPC improvements only (without accounting for clockspeed increase). All these while Intel stood still with their Skylake architecture and 14nm. So no surprises there, the tortoise overtook the sleeping and overconfident hare.

dicktracy said:
Too bad they’re leaving their fanboys in the slums with their nonstop price hikes.

This is an unfortunately side effect. When you are no more in the underdog position, there is no reason to sell things cheap. Considering Intel have no response to the challenge at this point or near future, prices are expected to continue going up until there's tight competition.

lexluthermiester · Dec 22, 2020

Raevenlord said:

Yeah, that seems about right. AMD is at the top of their game right now. Rock on!

R-T-B · Dec 22, 2020

mechtech said:
"While the first generation Zen achieved a sorely needed inflection point in the red team's efforts against arch-rival Intel "

Ummm wasn't/isn't AMD green? and ATi red?

http://www.buildorbuy.org/themes/1024/directron_amd-xp.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OXtTelrwIgc/TeIiR0FGcQI/AAAAAAAAAS8/kkh9BvfBe2o/s1600/Amd+Athlon+Wallpaper4.jpg

AMD became red when they bought ATI by most accounts

1d10t · Dec 22, 2020

EatingDirt said:
Edit: Got the core count wrong for the 9700k.

Hard to compare Intel through 4 Generations.

7700k was a 4/8 Core Part
8700k was a 6/12 Core Part
9700k was a 8/8 Core Part
9900k was a 8/16 Core Part
10600k was a 6/12 Core Part
10900k was a 10/20 Core Part

9700k is 0.2% faster in CPU tests & 2% faster in Gaming(720p) than the 8700k.
10600k is 5.2% faster in CPU tests & 2.2% faster in Gaming(720p) than the 9700k

Total uplift in 3 generations is 5.4% in CPU tests & 4.2% faster in Gaming(720p).

If we ignore the core parts and only go by flagships for 4 generations(which ignores this AMD comparison, based off of cores):
10900k is 42% faster than the 7700k in CPU tests & 11.8% faster in Gaming(720p) based off of the 8700k review that has the 7700k, and the 10900k review with the 8700k in it.

It's easier if we use all the same metric like thread count but then I realized Intel doesn't has 4 core 8 thread in Coffee Lake and Coffee Lake refresh, only recently 4c8t i3-10100. Unfortunately, if we compare i7-7700K with i3-10100 ,things are not looking good, on paper at least

lexluthermiester · Dec 22, 2020

R-T-B said:
AMD became red when they bought ATI by most accounts

Before that they were "Team Orange".

System Name	The Ryzening
Processor	AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard	MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling	Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory	32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
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Keyboard	Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
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Memory	32GB Kingston Fury
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Storage	Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 1TB / Samsumg 960 Pro M.2 512Gb
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Case	Asus Prime AP201
Audio Device(s)	On Board
Power Supply	be quiet! Pure POwer M12 850w Gold (ATX3.0)
Software	W10

System Name	The Ryzening
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Motherboard	MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling	Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory	32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
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Case	Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s)	iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
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Keyboard	Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
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Motherboard	MXI APEX
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Memory	2x16GB TridentZ 4000-14-14-28-2T @1.6v
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 LiquidX Barrow 3015MHz @1.1v
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Case	Open Benchtable V2
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Power Supply	MSI A1000G
Mouse	G502
Keyboard	G815
Software	Gentoo/Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	Always only ever very fast

System Name	The Expanse
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	Asus Prime X570-Pro BIOS 5003 AM4 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.B
Cooling	Corsair H150i Pro
Memory	32GB GSkill Trident RGB DDR4-3200 14-14-14-34-1T (B-Die)
Video Card(s)	AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX 24GB (24.3.1)
Storage	WD SN850X 2TB / Corsair MP600 1TB / Samsung 860Evo 1TB x2 Raid 0 / Asus NAS AS1004T V2 14TB
Display(s)	LG 34GP83A-B 34 Inch 21: 9 UltraGear Curved QHD (3440 x 1440) 1ms Nano IPS 160Hz
Case	Fractal Design Meshify S2
Audio Device(s)	Creative X-Fi + Logitech Z-5500 + HS80 Wireless
Power Supply	Corsair AX850 Titanium
Mouse	Corsair Dark Core RGB SE
Keyboard	Corsair K100
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Benchmark Scores	3800X https://valid.x86.fr/1zr4a5 5800X https://valid.x86.fr/2dey9c

The Ultimate Zen: AMD's Zen 3 Achieves 89% Higher Performance Than First-generation Zen

Raevenlord

News Editor

the54thvoid

Intoxicated Moderator

Raevenlord

News Editor

mouacyk

Chris34

Makaveli

harm9963

EatingDirt

mouacyk

zlobby

dirtyferret

Caring1

TheoneandonlyMrK

Fluffmeister

Caring1

wahdangun

mechtech

HTC

dyonoctis

dicktracy

watzupken

lexluthermiester

R-T-B

1d10t

lexluthermiester

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Memory	Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (4x 8GB) 4000M TRIDENT Z F-43600V15D-16GTZ /G.SKILL DDR4
Video Card(s)	ZOTAC AMP EXTREME AIRO 4090 / 1080 Ti /290X CFX
Storage	SAMSUNG 980 PRO SSD 1TB/ WD DARK 770 2TB , Sabrent NVMe 512GB / 1 SSD 250GB / 1 HHD 3 TB
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Power Supply	FSP Hydro PTM PRO 1200W ATX 3.0 PCI-E GEN-5 80 Plus Platinum - EVGA 1300G2/Corsair w750
Mouse	G502
Keyboard	G413

Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	MSI B550 Tomahawk
Cooling	Noctua U12S
Memory	32GB @ 3600 CL18
Video Card(s)	AMD 6800XT
Storage	WD Black SN850(1TB), WD Black NVMe 2018(500GB), WD Blue SATA(2TB)
Display(s)	Samsung Odyssey G9
Case	Be Quiet! Silent Base 802
Power Supply	Seasonic PRIME-GX-1000

Processor	faster at instructions than yours
Motherboard	more nurturing than yours
Cooling	frostier than yours
Memory	superior scheduling & haphazardly entry than yours
Video Card(s)	better rasterization than yours
Storage	more ample than yours
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Mouse	without as much gnawing as yours
Keyboard	less clicky than yours
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Benchmark Scores	up yours

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Audio Device(s)	No need.
Power Supply	FSP Aurum 650W
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Case	Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	Corsair TX 850M 80+ Gold
Mouse	Razer Deathadder Elite
Software	Ubuntu 19.04 LTS

Processor	AMD Ryzen 3700x
Motherboard	asus ROG Strix B-350I Gaming
Cooling	Deepcool LS520 SE
Memory	crucial ballistix 32Gb DDR4
Video Card(s)	RTX 3070 FE
Storage	WD sn550 1To/WD ssd sata 1To /WD black sn750 1To/Seagate 2To/WD book 4 To back-up
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Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
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Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software	Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64

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Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 7500F
Motherboard	MSI B650M Mortar WiFi
Cooling	ID Cooling SE 206 XT
Memory	32GB GSkill Flare X5 DDR5 6000Mhz
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse RX 6800 XT
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Case	Cougar MG120-G
Audio Device(s)	MPow Air Wireless + Mi Soundbar
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Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 3
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