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Thermaltake TOUGHFAN 12 and TOUGHFAN 12 Turbo Fans

VSG

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A long awaited review heads your way today with the Thermaltake TOUGHFAN 12 and TOUGHFAN 12 Turbo fans! These fans aim to challenge the newer Phanteks offering and status quo of Noctua when it comes to case fans that are all about function and without any LEDs.

Show full review
 
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It's great to see more fan reviews, hope they keep coming! On that note: any plans for testing the Arctic P12/P14? Would love to see them compared to these. At ⅓-½ the price of most high end fans but reportedly similar in performance and noise to the NF-A12x25 these are really interesting. I'm extremely happy with my P14s at least.
 
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Whether this fan is good or not is irrelevant to me, because Thermaltake stole too much of the design from Noctua.
From the interview of Noctua by Niels Broekhuijsen of THG US in March (emphasis mine)

What Does Noctua Have to Say?​

Of course, we couldn’t write up this head-to-head test without consulting Noctua and Thermaltake to ask what they had to say about these similar fans.​
Noctua told us the following about the similarities between its spinners and Thermatake’s: “We're investigating legal options, but generally, we prefer to spend funds in further R&D rather than wasting them in international legal battles that often end fruitless.​
Thermaltake have a sordid and long-running history of stealing IP, a particularly sore spot was them effectively muscling CaseLabs out of business by stealing their product. Buy them if you must but ethically I refuse to touch them.
 
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Thanks for providing a better airflow/noise comparison this time!

An interactive graph would circumvent the problem with a high number of fans in the same graph getting too visually cluttered.
 
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Whether this fan is good or not is irrelevant to me, because Thermaltake stole too much of the design from Noctua.
From the interview of Noctua by Niels Broekhuijsen of THG US in March (emphasis mine)

What Does Noctua Have to Say?​

Of course, we couldn’t write up this head-to-head test without consulting Noctua and Thermaltake to ask what they had to say about these similar fans.​
Noctua told us the following about the similarities between its spinners and Thermatake’s: “We're investigating legal options, but generally, we prefer to spend funds in further R&D rather than wasting them in international legal battles that often end fruitless.​
Thermaltake have a sordid and long-running history of stealing IP, a particularly sore spot was them effectively muscling CaseLabs out of business by stealing their product. Buy them if you must but ethically I refuse to touch them.
You must be young, Noctua themselves stole the design from Gentle Typhoon which is exactly the same as the NF-A12x25 and the Gentle Typhoons came out years before Noctua's knock off of their design.

Noctua "CANNOT" litigate against Thermaltake because Thermaltake will clean them up citing their (Noctua's) knock off of the Gentle Typhoons.
 

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Sorry but that again a shitty review, no 2000 RPM or 2500 RPM test, cannot beleive what the problem here at Techpowerup about doing a complet review of Fan or Radiator for what they are intended to do. That a half of product review seriously. I miss good old review from
Martin's Liquid Lab . I dont comment frequently, but Dam when I see a butched review like that, it frustrate me. It nothings versus VSG, but Dam wake up please when you do a review a fan like this, test it for what it is.
 
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Yeah would've have been nice to have stats even if just a few for 1800, 2000, and 2500 compared to others which are able to reach that range.
 

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Whether this fan is good or not is irrelevant to me, because Thermaltake stole too much of the design from Noctua.
From the interview of Noctua by Niels Broekhuijsen of THG US in March (emphasis mine)

What Does Noctua Have to Say?​

Of course, we couldn’t write up this head-to-head test without consulting Noctua and Thermaltake to ask what they had to say about these similar fans.​
Noctua told us the following about the similarities between its spinners and Thermatake’s: “We're investigating legal options, but generally, we prefer to spend funds in further R&D rather than wasting them in international legal battles that often end fruitless.​
Thermaltake have a sordid and long-running history of stealing IP, a particularly sore spot was them effectively muscling CaseLabs out of business by stealing their product. Buy them if you must but ethically I refuse to touch them.
Erm noctua stole the design from Nideq/Scythe.

noctua is overrated.
 

sector-z

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Yeah would've have been nice to have stats even if just a few for 1800, 2000, and 2500 compared to others which are able to reach that range.
Same for me, TechpowerUp Fan & Watercooling radiator review are like doing a review about the newest Buggati Top Car and only test is braking distance and 0-100KM. No 0-200 KM, 0 to 300 KM or Top speed, because majority of country have 100 KM max speed limite . That just f****** stupid Imo.
 

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Hey, that's some pretty good performance and noise. Not bad. Optimumtech said quality was a tad below the A12x25, but it basically performs like a A12x25. The single fan pricing is kinda stupid right now, but they are selling regular (non-Turbo) 2-pack for $55CAD. They even have a turquoise version on Amazon.

Glad to have the competition though. It's about time someone came around and knocked Noctua down a peg on their stupid A12x25 pricing that's perennially more expensive than even their industrial NF-A14s. Coming from an owner of P12 redux ($18), F12 ($30), A14 ($28), A14 Chromax ($33), A14 2000rpm industrial ($36), and A12x25 ($37). It's a nice fan, but honestly the hype is getting tiring, and so is the pricing.

But I dunno, for future case fans I'll probably still take the new Phanteks T30 though. Still undeniably the king, just hard to use on air coolers.

toughfan.png


Noctua also changed the final hub design on the Chromax. It looks like a weird nipple now instead of the classic GT look like the regular and prototype. Final insult is the $44cad price tag. For $44 it better be a IP67-rated A14 industrial, which it clearly is not.

 

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How come on the graph it showed that between 20-28 CFM the noctua had lower noise than the phanteks but on your review of the phanteks in the noise normalized it says that the phanteks had more cfm/db than the noctua at the 750 and 1000 rpm which is within the 20-28cfm range?
 
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But I dunno, for future case fans

While being a reasonable forum member... why on earth you need high static pressure fan as case fan?

Lately for those things I spit on all PC fan makers and simply use Sunon Maglev series 120mm fans. They have various types and... cost 8€ each... Why on earth you should pay more for a case fan? And as a fact they are very good quality. I suspect their 38mm ones that cost like 10€ are fine on rads too... they lack PWM, yes... but motherboards are still providing voltage reg control, so no issues here.

I totally understand that matters get complicated much more when putting a FAN on a radiator, then everything changes noise, perf wise... but just like a case fan? Spending like 100€ for 3x fans? I have done it too, don't fret, but not anymore, as in the end they all have their weak sides that render that investment quite painful to bear.
 
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Looks like Nidec Servo is the OEM for these (I'm just guessing based on the profile of the fan)
 

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While being a reasonable forum member... why on earth you need high static pressure fan as case fan?

Lately for those things I spit on all PC fan makers and simply use Sunon Maglev series 120mm fans. They have various types and... cost 8€ each... Why on earth you should pay more for a case fan? And as a fact they are very good quality. I suspect their 38mm ones that cost like 10€ are fine on rads too... they lack PWM, yes... but motherboards are still providing voltage reg control, so no issues here.

I totally understand that matters get complicated much more when putting a FAN on a radiator, then everything changes noise, perf wise... but just like a case fan? Spending like 100€ for 3x fans? I have done it too, don't fret, but not anymore, as in the end they all have their weak sides that render that investment quite painful to bear.

Because in my cases intakes are always pulling through a grille panel, and for these future 120s I'm planning to accommodate 240mm rads around that time frame?

I'm not doubting that they aren't effective and reliable. The Phanteks fans use basically the same Vapo bearing from them. But I tend to switch my fans around quite a bit.

It comes down to $12 but at like 1000 units, I'm not buying more than 10 of them even if they were $5 each. packs of 36? Maybe not all of them are
 
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Hey, that's some pretty good performance and noise. Not bad. Optimumtech said quality was a tad below the A12x25, but it basically performs like a A12x25. The single fan pricing is kinda stupid right now, but they are selling regular (non-Turbo) 2-pack for $55CAD. They even have a turquoise version on Amazon.

Glad to have the competition though. It's about time someone came around and knocked Noctua down a peg on their stupid A12x25 pricing that's perennially more expensive than even their industrial NF-A14s. Coming from an owner of P12 redux ($18), F12 ($30), A14 ($28), A14 Chromax ($33), A14 2000rpm industrial ($36), and A12x25 ($37). It's a nice fan, but honestly the hype is getting tiring, and so is the pricing.

But I dunno, for future case fans I'll probably still take the new Phanteks T30 though. Still undeniably the king, just hard to use on air coolers.

View attachment 222846


Noctua also changed the final hub design on the Chromax. It looks like a weird nipple now instead of the classic GT look like the regular and prototype. Final insult is the $44cad price tag. For $44 it better be a IP67-rated A14 industrial, which it clearly is not.

These are really not high static pressure at all. Over expensive garbage. Do yourself a favor and buy some good quality Delta or Nidec Servo fans (You could probably buy 4 high-performance Delta fans for the price of one of these and they will provide better static pressure and airflow at very low RPM's)
 

VSG

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Sorry but that again a shitty review, no 2000 RPM or 2500 RPM test, cannot beleive what the problem here at Techpowerup about doing a complet review of Fan or Radiator for what they are intended to do. That a half of product review seriously. I miss good old review from
Martin's Liquid Lab . I dont comment frequently, but Dam when I see a butched review like that, it frustrate me. It nothings versus VSG, but Dam wake up please when you do a review a fan like this, test it for what it is.
It takes a very long time to get the data for fans in the anechoic chamber AND the mini wind tunnel separately, so I am only doing it till 1500 RPM because that's where most PC DIY coolers tend to max out at. I know you want more, but it won't be from my side. Thanks for the very kind words btw, always appreciated.

How come on the graph it showed that between 20-28 CFM the noctua had lower noise than the phanteks but on your review of the phanteks in the noise normalized it says that the phanteks had more cfm/db than the noctua at the 750 and 1000 rpm which is within the 20-28cfm range?
For the same reason I didn't make those graphs here. It's not the most accurate way to represent the data, and I had mentioned as much in the previous review, but it got blown out of proportion.
 
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Lol, they even copied Noctua's sleeving... TT doesn't even try to hide what they do.

Also the housing sucks, no way to seal the gaps when used on a radiator. Der8auer recently showed that with an AIO from MSI, the insane amount of air being pushed though those gaps. Shows how much pressure is really needed to push through radiator fins.
 
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You must be young, Noctua themselves stole the design from Gentle Typhoon which is exactly the same as the NF-A12x25 and the Gentle Typhoons came out years before Noctua's knock off of their design.

Noctua "CANNOT" litigate against Thermaltake because Thermaltake will clean them up citing their (Noctua's) knock off of the Gentle Typhoons.
This argument is getting tiring. Sure, the difference between a derivative design and a copy is a sliding scale with tons and tons of gray area. But there are plenty of differentiators between the NF-A12x25 and the GT, while there are close to zero between the NF-A12x25 and these. Materials (LCP vs. more traditional plastic), blade shape (pointier/sharper blade shape), bearing type (SSO2 vs. double ball bearing), among others. There are still plenty of similarities - the overall blade shape and sweep, the number of blades, the hub-to-blade size ratio - but the NF-A12x25 is a clear evolution. This, on the other hand, takes the NF-A12x25's changes over the GT and copies them. The only real differentiator is the frame, whic is on the other hand copied from another manufacturer (sorry, can't quite remember who right now, it was mentioned in the last thread where this was discussed). Oh, and they removed Noctua's "flow acceleration channels" from the blade design. But this is far more of a direct copy of the NF-A12x25 than can be said of the NF-A12x25's relation to the GT.

At this point there are essentially three design styles for high pressure 120-140x25mm fans: the GT and its offspring, the server-like mid-sweep style (EK Vardar/Meltemi, various Delta fans, etc.), and the "massive blades" style (Arctic P12/P14, some others). For now, the two outer points seem to perform the best in terms of performace/noise though there are several good options on the market, and new materials and design tweaks continue to make small improvements. Everything else (Corsair's designs, for example) are quite clearly inferior, and more a middle-of-the-road balance of pressure and airflow if unobstructed, which ... doesn't rock my boat at least.
 
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It's not the most accurate way to represent the data
Accurate is the wrong term though. It was an objectively incorrect way to represent the data. Accuracy is a measurement related term, and should not me used in this context.

You could make that type of comparison work, as in ”best airflow/noise @ x rpm”, but it would require a lot more than a single division arithmetic operation. There is a reason why logarithmic units should not be treated in the same way as linear ones.
 
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Accurate is the wrong term though. It was an objectively incorrect way to represent the data. Accuracy is a measurement related term, and should not me used in this context.
Uhm ... "accurate" is indeed a term related to measurements, but it is a term equally related to representations of various kinds. Its use in this context is entirely appropriate.
 
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Uhm ... "accurate" is indeed a term related to measurements, but it is a term equally related to representations of various kinds. Its use in this context is entirely appropriate.
I think he is right, honest is the word that sprung to my mind.

PS: you can be accurate in your goal, but it might miss the target deliberately.
 
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I think he is right, honest is the word that sprung to my mind.
"Honest" is an extremely loaded word, with some connotations that really have no place in something like this. Accurate is far more ... well, accurate. Fitting. Suited to the task. Of course, accuracy of what is the question, and that's open to debate - which metrics and comparisons are useful, illustrative and enlightening is highly variable, after all. An accurate representation can still be misleading too, given the right (or wrong) context or selection of data. But using "honest" would be deeply problematic, as it implies value judgements and calls into question the intentions of the writer in a way that is uncalled for, as well as opening the door for inaccurate representations, as the criteria are moved into an overly fuzzy and indeterminate area that nobody has any reasonable overview of - the author's beliefs.
 

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Accurate is the wrong term though. It was an objectively incorrect way to represent the data. Accuracy is a measurement related term, and should not me used in this context.

You could make that type of comparison work, as in ”best airflow/noise @ x rpm”, but it would require a lot more than a single division arithmetic operation. There is a reason why logarithmic units should not be treated in the same way as linear ones.
Accurate was used in terms of representation btw, as Valantar pointed out. But of course I see the scope for misunderstanding here.
 
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PS: you can be accurate in your goal, but it might miss the target deliberately.
Absolutely. But then you're talking about an entirely different question than what we're discussing here: whether or not the author is consciously misrepresenting things. This is of course something to be aware of and on the lookout for, as is the appearance of unconscious biases, but asking for "honest" representations doesn't combat that in any way. Unconscious biases are honest. Honesty also has a strong moral undertone (of 'doing good'), which means that someone can feel more honest when misleading someone if they believe they are ultimately leading them in the right direction, whatever they believe that to be.

So: "honest" is a really poorly suited word for this task.
 
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Unconscious biases are honest
I think not.
someone can feel more honest when misleading someone if they believe they are ultimately leading them in the right direction
Cheats don't feel honest, or do they? I have never seen it used in this context. Have you read brave new world or something?

honest" would be deeply problematic, as it implies value judgements
No, honesty implies humility which is the opposite of pride which is a virtue, but corrupt. When you are honest, you are implying not your virtue, but selflessness of it.
I see you haven't played ultima.
 
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