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This is a reason NOT to mine Chia...

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My opinion, which all the top consumer SSD manufacturers share
That's because it's good for their profit margins. Learn to think critically instead of accepting what manufacturers tell you.
top TLC today beats MLC drives from years ago on longevity anyway
Oh, I'll grant you that. However the advances made to TLC have also been made to MLC which leaps and bound ahead of what it was a few years ago.
which is the reason they are now using QLC in cheaper drives
We are not going to discuss that hot garbage....

On that note we're getting off topic, let's rope it in..
 

las

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That's because it's good for their profit margins. Learn to think critically instead of accepting what manufacturers tell you.

Oh, I'll grant you that. However the advances made to TLC have also been made to MLC which leaps and bound ahead of what it was a few years ago.

We are not going to discuss that hot garbage....

On that note we're getting off topic, let's rope it in..

There's no MLC consumer drives on the market with PCIe 4.0 and considered high-end. Which?

3-bit "MLC" SSDs is actually TLC.
Almost every SSD on the market uses 3D TLC. The 64-layer technology is mature and reliable.

TLC today is nothing like TLC back when Samsung 840 existed, which is why QLC is now a thing.

QLC today is probably on par if not better than TLC 5+ years ago. I'd not buy QLC myself but TLC I will happily buy, never had issues.

Top consumer SSDs are Samsung 980 Pro and WD SN850, both TLC. Top scores in every review. Which MLC SSD would you consider better than these two?
 
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las

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Let's review...

Yup...

So you can't mention a MLC drive that outperforms those two, who is still cheap enough to be relevant for consumers, yeah lets end this because TLC have replaced MLC for good :D

Samsung 970 Pro = 1TB, MLC / 1200 TBW and 5 years warrenty

Samsung 980 Pro = 2TB, 3-bit MLC aka TLC, yet same price as 970 Pro 1TB, still 1200 TBW and 5 years warrenty + much faster and full pcie 4.0 x16 compatiblity

Choice is easy, both 1.5 Million Hours Reliability
 
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Glad I got some of the last available MLC drives last summer tbh. Now just praying those won't fail early. Year in, so far so good.

On topic, I wonder how fast would those QLC cheapos get murdered by Chia mining :laugh:
 

las

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Glad I got some of the last available MLC drives last summer tbh. Now just praying those won't fail early. Year in, so far so good.

On topic, I wonder how fast would those QLC cheapos get murdered by Chia mining :laugh:

All SSDs will fail over time mining Chia, wear and tear is insane, pointless coin, already down 50% since mid may
 
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Just like with everything else - it depends on the owner. Some dipshit playing fortnite and eating cheetos in a dirty dusty room that smells like farts, mold and damp socks is more likely to kill a GPU than a miner with proper setup, settings, power, and maintenance.
Doubt it, running a video card 24/7 will reduce it's lifespan quicker than intermittent gaming. It's not the GPU that dies, it's the VRM, caps, memory chips, etc and those are rated for a certain amount of hours.
 
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Why everybody talks about SSD-s and chia.
Yes it is faster but imho not worth it.
With an average sata ssd you get 6-8h plotting time.
A fast nvme get 4-6h.
But what price?
An average sata HDD 500gb get 16-20h plotting time, two of these 12-16h
Two Average enterprise sata hdd (like 250gb WD RE wd2502abys) 9-10h
So yes the ssd is 2x-8x faster but much more expensive and the life is limited.
In my country i can buy 8-15 usd 500gb hdd-s, that is very cheap compared to a new ssd in that size.
 

las

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Why everybody talks about SSD-s and chia.
Yes it is faster but imho not worth it.
With an average sata ssd you get 6-8h plotting time.
A fast nvme get 4-6h.
But what price?
An average sata HDD 500gb get 16-20h plotting time, two of these 12-16h
Two Average enterprise sata hdd (like 250gb WD RE wd2502abys) 9-10h
So yes the ssd is 2x-8x faster but much more expensive and the life is limited.
In my country i can buy 8-15 usd 500gb hdd-s, that is very cheap compared to a new ssd in that size.
Because they are trying to score before the coin crashes and HDD is too slow

Coin already down by 50% in a few weeks and still dropping

It will never explode like other coins, pointless and waste of time
 

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pointless and waste of time

That's what they all said about BTC when it first came out.

Look at Dogecoin, like wtf.

I wouldn't be writing it off just yet. Its only like what, less that 1 month old? These projects take time.

But yes, we will soon see if you are correct.
 

las

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That's what they all said about BTC when it first came out.

Look at Dogecoin, like wtf.

I wouldn't be writing it off just yet. Its only like what, less that 1 month old? These projects take time.

But yes, we will soon see if you are correct.

This is not a regular coin, it's not like all coins explode, most die out, it needs exposure to blow up and chia is not popular at all
 

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Story of crypto since it's existence.
This is my primary complaint with crypto as it stands right now. Decentralized transaction processing makes sense, decentralized issuing and destruction "notes"/currency does not. I see mining as a mechanism where early adopters can basically get to run off with money when they didn't really add any value in the first place. They made something worth nothing, marketed it, then ran off with what people were willing to pay for it. It practically starts as a ponzi scheme and ends as an unregulated market. It's a perfect mechanism to commit fraud.
 

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Well from what I can see its getting pretty good exposure. Not many threads on TPU about any other coins. This last month all I've heard about is Chia (XCH) this n Chia that.

Hell even my mate is riding it atm waiting for pools.
 

las

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Well from what I can see its getting pretty good exposure. Not many threads on TPU about any other coins. This last month all I've heard about is Chia (XCH) this n Chia that.

Hell even my mate is riding it atm waiting for pools.

Only because people were afraid that chia would make ssd market hell like gpu market is now, but it's not happening and ssd is cheaper than ever

Exposure, from people, like elon musk, is what i meant - he can make any coin blow up just by writing the name on his twitter it seems
 
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Because they are trying to score before the coin crashes and HDD is too slow

Coin already down by 50% in a few weeks and still dropping

It will never explode like other coins, pointless and waste of time
How do you know that its not going to explode?
How many times said that bitcoin are going to die? I don't think anyone can forecast a coin life.
What if Musk mention chia on twitter?
 

las

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How do you know that its not going to explode?
How many times said that bitcoin are going to die? I don't think anyone can forecast a coin life.
What if Musk mention chia on twitter?
Then it might, lets see if he does

I don't see much future in this coin, I see alot of people destroying their SSDs and HHDs tho

Why would this coin explode when it's pretty much destroying SSDs in the process, atleast with GPU mining you don't destroy the GPU like that

And HDDs are not viable for chia, too slow
 

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That is your opinion. It is not supported by real world practical usage.
Real world practical usage? Srsly?
Even a power-user with higher than usual demands for data movement has to work really hard to exceed TLC's TBW within that "limited warranty". You've got to be either an obsessive pirate, or do some out of the ordinary stuff, like editing 4K raw footage for your pornhub youtube channel.
I don't think in my entire career I've seen a consumer SSD that died by exceeding it's TBW. It's usually mundane things like dead controller, or defective NAND that may crumble at any point of its lifetime.
Just this morning got another stupid 240GB Kingston which one of my less intelligent colleagues decided to use in an accounting server. Less than 1TBW and less than 2TBR, only 13k hours of service(~1.5years) and it's dead. 100+ bad sectors on one of the banks, already locked in read-only mode and barely breathing just to make a backup (which is still lucky, considering it's kingston we are talking about).
If anything, I've only seen one drive that exceeded its TBW, and it was not a typical SSD, but a mini-mag cartridge from RED camera which was used for a couple of years to shoot lots of shitty cookie-cutter CSI-style TV shows. And it's still an edge-case, enforced by the fact that it's only rated for 72TBW regardless of size or the fact that it's 2-bit MLC. And it still died from controller failure, not from NAND failure.

Oh I don't know... For perhaps profit?:slap: Yeah let's go with that. :rolleyes:
Again, counterarguing assumption with another assumption. Profit is just one little part of the equation, and it usually has the opposite effect.
The biggest one is risk management. So, if a manufacturer has a new model of SSD, they have stats on average failure rates, and a ballpark numbers for balancing price and warranty length. E.g. just an example the same drive design may have a 0.5% failure rate at 3 years and 1% rate at 5 years. So, depending on the brand's public image and target audience, you can either sell it at lower cost w/ 3 year warranty, or balance-out an additional 0.5% by bumping its price and using a fancy box.

Nowadays, with Chia and everything, they might start enforcing a totally arbitrary metric as DWPD to "limit" their "limited warranty", but until that happens, I as a consumer shouldn't really care if I exceed TBW 1 year or 5 years down the road, if it does not violate their current conditions. If it's rated for 640TBW or 5 years - it should last 640TBW or 5 years.
Doubt it, running a video card 24/7 will reduce it's lifespan quicker than intermittent gaming. It's not the GPU that dies, it's the VRM, caps, memory chips, etc and those are rated for a certain amount of hours.
Components have varying lifespan depending on operating conditions.
In a gaming rig you have things like:
1) Higher PL and consequently Vcore
2) Much higher operating temps during load, and usually lackluster cooling
3) Thermal stress, cause your GPU goes from off to full-on every single day
The only thing that mining may do, is abuse Vmem circuitry, and only if it's done like shit. That's a typical failure on EVGA 10-series cards, but it happens only slightly more often than in your typical "gaming" scenario. Another exception is a hot garbage "ASUS Cerberus", which has no VRAM cooling at all and will eventually die or start spewing artifacts regardless of where it's working and what it's doing. Other than that, all the scary stories you see and hear on the internetz, is idiots running ETH farms at or near 100% PL and max GPU/VRAM clocks regardless of consequences (and very questionable performance benefits).
 

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In a gaming rig you have things like

Yeah I was under the impression that mining can actually be better for a card in various situations (-50%) like for instance solder joints on the PCB are better for constant running than being turned on (hot) then off (cold) all the time. This is why some people bake their card to reflow.

I don't have any proof of the matter its just an observation of mine.
 
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I've started to get spammed on youtube out of nowhere with videos about how to optimize and mine chia. In other words this crap hit the mainstream, I think it's time to face reality and accept that chia mining is here to stay.

Components have varying lifespan depending on operating conditions.
In a gaming rig you have things like:
1) Higher PL and consequently Vcore
2) Much higher operating temps during load, and usually lackluster cooling
3) Thermal stress, cause your GPU goes from off to full-on every single day
The only thing that mining may do, is abuse Vmem circuitry, and only if it's done like shit. That's a typical failure on EVGA 10-series cards, but it happens only slightly more often than in your typical "gaming" scenario. Another exception is a hot garbage "ASUS Cerberus", which has no VRAM cooling at all and will eventually die or start spewing artifacts regardless of where it's working and what it's doing. Other than that, all the scary stories you see and hear on the internetz, is idiots running ETH farms at or near 100% PL and max GPU/VRAM clocks regardless of consequences (and very questionable performance benefits).

I've dabbled through some mining forums and reddits , most of these guys don't give two shits about any of that. They just put the damn things on 100% fan speed and forget about them till they start artifacting and crashing.
 
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This is not a regular coin, it's not like all coins explode, most die out, it needs exposure to blow up and chia is not popular at all
The sad thing is for whatever reason, people are giving it said exposure.

Filecoin never got exposure like this.

This is my primary complaint with crypto as it stands right now. Decentralized transaction processing makes sense, decentralized issuing and destruction "notes"/currency does not. I see mining as a mechanism where early adopters can basically get to run off with money when they didn't really add any value in the first place. They made something worth nothing, marketed it, then ran off with what people were willing to pay for it. It practically starts as a ponzi scheme and ends as an unregulated market. It's a perfect mechanism to commit fraud.
I agree with you but don't have any better ideas on how to tackle it.

I thought about making a coin long ago based around a "Proof Of Presence" model that was pretty reliable. Basically it issued an evenly distributed set of coins to anyone with an IPv4 that requested it, on daily intervals. You could not request more without another IPv4 to work with. It was designed to act as a sort of universal income for a household that would be fairly distributed.

Thing is, I'm sure that would lead to people being people, buying cheap vms online, and hoarding IPv4 addresses, and wrecking large parts of the self hosted internet. Basically, try as you may: It never stops. Bloody humans.

If I thought the above idea would've worked, I would have launched the coin alongside my own crypto mining article series. But I don't have that feeling about it. So it never got made.

Helium right now is the best thing I've seen in that vein of thought. Which is why I threw some money at it this month.
 
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The sad thing is for whatever reason, people are giving it said exposure.

Filecoin never got exposure like this.


I agree with you but don't have any better ideas on how to tackle it.

I thought about making a coin long ago based around a "Proof Of Presence" model that was pretty reliable. Basically it issued an evenly distributed set of coins to anyone with an IPv4 that requested it, on daily intervals. You could not request more without another IPv4 to work with. It was designed to act as a sort of universal income for a household that would be fairly distributed.

Thing is, I'm sure that would lead to people being people, buying cheap vms online, and hoarding IPv4 addresses, and wrecking large parts of the self hosted internet. Basically, try as you may: It never stops. Bloody humans.

If I thought the above idea would've worked, I would have launched the coin alongside my own crypto mining article series. But I don't have that feeling about it. So it never got made.

Helium right now is the best thing I've seen in that vein of thought. Which is why I threw some money at it this month.
Well, one of the advantages of fiat currency (or disadvantage if you do it wrong,) is that the money supply is controlled by some authority and that authority has the ability to make gradual adjustments by destroying and issuing notes on a regular basis or instant adjustments by issuing long term notes that mature over time (bonds for example.) Ideally you don't want huge changes unless there is something that warrants it, but something has to make that call. A central authority is not what "people" want, however being too decentralized is a problem on the other end of the spectrum which is where we are at now. I think that there should be a trusted group that acts as an authority that coordinates (unanimously for,) the creation and destruction of currency in whatever form that takes, with a more wide network of peers to handle transactions that only requires one of the authority figures that can issue and destroy currency. A fee for each transaction would be the pool of currency that can be removed or added back into "circulation" at any given time. Since unanimous consent is hard and fees would be relatively small, the rate at which the currency can grow or shrink is limited, but still controllable to some degree.

That's my view anyways, so take it for what it's worth... which is probably nothing. :laugh:
 

silentbogo

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