• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

This is going to take a while...

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,125 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,558
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#27
Hijacks you screensaver because you wanted it to when installing.
actually, even if you tell it not to defrag, i've noticed it changes my screensaver behaviour (which is off) - sometimes it sets other screensavers on instead of leaving it alone.
 

temp02

New Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
493 (0.15/day)
Likes
165
#28
Either you have a "buggy" build/version of O&O with bad OS integration code or this behavior its not related to O&O, because, at least on XP, mine was off when installing and is stays off while defragging.

Either way, with still more than 60% to go and 2 days have passed, at this rate, only next week we'll see the final results.
Also, newtekie1 can you tell us how many fragments does the most fragmented file have (bottom-left, File Status, hit Fragments if need to sort the list)?
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#29
actually, even if you tell it not to defrag, i've noticed it changes my screensaver behaviour (which is off) - sometimes it sets other screensavers on instead of leaving it alone.
It does not hijack your screensaver. It gives you the option when installing to install the screensaver or not, tell it not to and it does nothing to the screensaver.

And I've already told you the service is not required to run 24/7, it only needs to run when O&O runs.

It also only defrags when idle if you install the screensaver, that is the defragging when idle function.

Like I've said already though, the argument is kind of pointless. I've used both, and O&O is simply better, IMO. You can argue until your fingers fall off, it won't change this. And the fact that Ultimate Defrag is not available for free to me, means I'll never use it as a full time defragger.

Either you have a "buggy" build/version of O&O with bad OS integration code or this behavior its not related to O&O, because, at least on XP, mine was off when installing and is stays off while defragging.

Either way, with still more than 60% to go and 2 days have passed, at this rate, only next week we'll see the final results.
Also, newtekie1 can you tell us how many fragments does the most fragmented file have (bottom-left, File Status, hit Fragments if need to sort the list)?
It doesn't really bother me how long it takes, and I need the machine's functions to stay running. Since it is just a data volume, the slowed down transfer rates caused by the defrag running aren't really affecting anything.

And the most fragmented file has 41,804 fragments.
 
Last edited:

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.94/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#31
I agree that O&O is better than Ultimate Defrag. It's the only defragger I will use now.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.94/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#33
Any updates? Did it finish yet? You have my record of 1 day and a few hours beat. lol.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#34
I meant to check it this morning before leaving for work, but forgot. So I'm not sure, I could remote into the machine and check, but that would kill my F@H clients. I'll give an update when I get home tonight.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#35
Any updates? Did it finish yet? You have my record of 1 day and a few hours beat. lol.
Update: Still running. Still says 36% finished, but only 22 Hours left, and down to 37% fragmented.

And just to correct myself, I looked at the analysis report that was generated right before I started the defrag, and the most fragmented file had 54,867 fragments!:eek:
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.94/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#36
So, ummm, yeah. I don't think I'll ever used Robocopy for a job that big. I bet you'll think twice as well, eh newtekie? lol.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#37
So, ummm, yeah. I don't think I'll ever used Robocopy for a job that big. I bet you'll think twice as well, eh newtekie? lol.
Depends on the situation, if I had it to do over again, I would use RichCopy to do the initial copy, then Robocopy to do the automated nightly backups.

Though I think even that would cause a large number of fragments, since RichCopy copies 3 or more files at once to maximize throughput. And it would be writing all 3 files to the drive at once, I'm sure that would almost guarantee all the files would be fragmented to hell also...

Edit: I was looking at Teracopy, and it seems like it is just a frontend GUI for Robocopy, just like Richcopy is.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.94/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#38
I probably would've just used Acronis True Image. Not free tho.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#39
I probably would've just used Acronis True Image. Not free tho.
Problem is it is coping from multiple drives/sources into a single volume. Otherwise I would have, I have a copy of True Image Home 2009 I got through work.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,125 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,558
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#40
was looking at Teracopy, and it seems like it is just a frontend GUI for Robocopy, just like Richcopy is.
interesting.


about the only comment i have there is that my teracopy transfers dont fragment into the millions :p
 

Stearic

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
104 (0.03/day)
Likes
7
#41
Reg the defrag analysis in the original post: I've never seen any volume fragmented that much.:eek:
Well, I use Teracopy too, and frequently move a few tens of GBs between different volumes, but I've never noticed it to fragment the files all that much.:) It queues up all the files for transfer and copies them one after the other. Admittedly, I have not copied from multiple source volumes to a single destination volume like the OP has, but any intelligent file transfer utility should queue up the requests to prevent fragmentation and/or thrashing the destination drive's read/write head unnecessarily.

Also, try Diskeeper 2009 pro; it's a very fast defragger and works really well in auto background defrag mode (better than O&O IMHO) with very low resource consumption. While you use the system, it will defrag/optimize the volumes using only idle resources; I've never had it interfere with other apps on my system.:cool:
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#42
Robocopy only copies a single file at a time, Richcopy is the only program I've come across that does multiple file transfers at the same time to maximize throughput. It still fragmented the files horribly.

Edit: I've copies some other larger files around on different drives using robocopy and none of them came out fragmented like this. So I did a little messing around, and notices that somehow "compress drive to save space" was enabled. I wonder if that caused the fragmentation when I was copying files...

Also, still says 36% but only 30 Minutes left.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,125 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,558
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#43
Robocopy only copies a single file at a time, Richcopy is the only program I've come across that does multiple file transfers at the same time to maximize throughput.
are you sure it does? if you're doing one drive to another, a single transfer is almost always faster - mechanical drives can only do one read/write at a time.


you can pretty easily test it by starting up a copy and checking bandwidth (task manager, whatever - anything not windows minutes) and then starting another - the throughput always drops, never goes up. (unless your source is far slower than the destination)

and to be honest, if it fragments your files that badly its not worth it, any speed boost you supposedly got is offset by the slow load times due to fragmentation, and the downtime as you defrag it
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
298 (0.09/day)
Likes
49
Location
Japan
System Name Main
Processor e7200 Wolfdale 2.5Ghz OC @ 3.0
Motherboard BioStar TP43D2-A7 ATX Board
Cooling ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm
Memory 4G's G.Skill PC 6400 800 Mhz
Video Card(s) ATI Sapphire HD 4870 10.6 drivers
Storage WD 80GB/WD 160GB SATA 3.0 Drive / WD 1TB
Case COOLER MASTER Centurion
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Japanese Brand 550w
Software Windows 7 64 Ultimate
Benchmark Scores 3DMark06 10712- Old score 3DMark06 10955- New Comp
#44
You can always try SyncToy 2.0 from Microsoft for your copying need's.

SyncToy 2.0
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
5,230 (1.48/day)
Likes
661
Location
IRAQ-Baghdad
System Name MASTER
Processor Core i7 3930k run at 4.4ghz
Motherboard Asus Rampage IV extreme
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 4x4G kingston hyperx beast 2400mhz
Video Card(s) 2X EVGA GTX680
Storage 2X Crusial M4 256g raid0, 1TbWD g, 2x500 WD B
Display(s) Samsung 27' 1080P LED 3D monitior 2ms
Case CoolerMaster Chosmos II
Audio Device(s) Creative sound blaster X-FI Titanum champion,Creative speakers 7.1 T7900
Power Supply Corsair 1200i, Logitch G500 Mouse, headset Corsair vengeance 1500
Software Win7 64bit Ultimate
Benchmark Scores 3d mark 2011: testing
#45
is this really completely fragmented , im go download O&O now , very nice
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#46
are you sure it does? if you're doing one drive to another, a single transfer is almost always faster - mechanical drives can only do one read/write at a time.


you can pretty easily test it by starting up a copy and checking bandwidth (task manager, whatever - anything not windows minutes) and then starting another - the throughput always drops, never goes up. (unless your source is far slower than the destination)

and to be honest, if it fragments your files that badly its not worth it, any speed boost you supposedly got is offset by the slow load times due to fragmentation, and the downtime as you defrag it
Yes, I'm sure it does. I've watched it when transfering over the network. Running a single Robocopy or teracopy usually pushes my gigabit to ~50% usage. Copying with Richcopy can send it to 75% or more.

Richcopy is going to fragment files, simply because you are working with multiple files, and as you said the drive can only handle one at a time. So it is going to write pieces of different files right next to eachother.

The fragmentation doesn't really hurt load times, it is just a data volume, so the slight speed loss due to fragmentation isn't noticeable. And there is no downtime when I defrag.
 

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
24,287 (5.51/day)
Likes
10,395
Location
Indiana, USA
Processor Intel Core i7 4790K@4.6GHz
Motherboard AsRock Z97 Extreme6
Cooling Corsair H110i GTX
Memory 32GB Corsair DDR3-1866 9-10-9-27
Video Card(s) PNY XLR8 GTX1060 6GB
Storage 480GB Crucial MX200 + 2TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive with 128GB OCZ Synapse SSD Cache
Display(s) QNIX QX2710 1440p@120Hz
Case Corsair 650D Black
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply Corsair HX850
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
#47
The fragmentation was definitely caused by having drive compression turned on. I formatted the volume, and disabled compression, then recopied everything using Robocopy. It came through with no fragmentation. So now we all know the cause, and not to enable drive compression.
 

Mussels

Moderprator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
46,125 (9.57/day)
Likes
13,558
Location
Australalalalalaia.
System Name Daddy Long Legs
Processor Ryzen R7 1700, 3.9GHz 1.375v
Motherboard MSI X370 Gaming PRO carbon
Cooling Fractal Celsius S24 (Silent fans, meh pump)
Memory 16GB 2133 generic @ 2800
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X (BIOS modded to Gaming Z - faster and solved black screen bugs!)
Storage 1TB Intel SSD Pro 6000p (60TB USB3 storage)
Display(s) Samsung 4K 40" HDTV (UA40KU6000WXXY) / 27" Qnix 2K 110Hz
Case Fractal Design R5. So much room, so quiet...
Audio Device(s) Pioneer VSX-519V + Yamaha YHT-270 / sennheiser HD595/518 + bob marley zion's
Power Supply Corsair HX 750i (Platinum, fan off til 300W)
Mouse Logitech G403 + KKmoon desk-sized mousepad
Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 pro x64 (all systems)
Benchmark Scores Laptops: i7-4510U + 840M 2GB (touchscreen) 275GB SSD + 16GB i7-2630QM + GT 540M + 8GB
#48
The fragmentation was definitely caused by having drive compression turned on. I formatted the volume, and disabled compression, then recopied everything using Robocopy. It came through with no fragmentation. So now we all know the cause, and not to enable drive compression.
good info, thanks for posting the cause.


drive compression is :( - it has to unpack into memory to decompress, so it can really hurt performance (and chew a lot of ram)