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throttlestop dead on windows 11

henry432

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I installed the windows 11 insider preview, loaded up all the programs and games, but as i noticed it seems changing offset voltage no longer does anything and also some of readings are wrong (turbo ratio and memory freq) as seen here
1625309139882.png


is there a workaround or microsoft added some stuff to prevent undervolting?

also i think on windows 10 vccin was grayed out but now it isnt?? (not sure about that)
 

unclewebb

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Your picture shows that Windows 11 is preventing ThrottleStop from reading information from and writing information to the CPU voltage control register. This one register has some other information like the memory speed and default turbo ratios.

Some developer versions of Windows 10 also had this same problem. In that situation, disabling the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) solved the problem.

If this does not work in Windows 11, you will have to see if there are any BIOS options that let you disable virtualization. Che0063 on the Notebook Review forum figured this out. ThrottleStop is working correctly for him in Windows 11. He has full access to CPU voltage control. Everything is working the same as Windows 10.




Some Alienware owners cannot disable VM in the BIOS so they will not have CPU voltage control in Windows 11. I have no idea if the retail version of Windows 11 will continue to block the voltage control register or not. If they do, there is nothing that I can about that. The million people a year that download ThrottleStop is a drop in the bucket compared to the Windows 11 user base. Provide some feedback to Microsoft. If voltage control is important to you, you might be forced to continue using Windows 10.
 

henry432

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Your picture shows that Windows 11 is preventing ThrottleStop from reading information from and writing information to the CPU voltage control register. This one register has some other information like the memory speed and default turbo ratios.

Some developer versions of Windows 10 also had this same problem. In that situation, disabling the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) solved the problem.

If this does not work in Windows 11, you will have to see if there are any BIOS options that let you disable virtualization. Che0063 on the Notebook Review forum figured this out. ThrottleStop is working correctly for him in Windows 11. He has full access to CPU voltage control. Everything is working the same as Windows 10.




Some Alienware owners cannot disable VM in the BIOS so they will not have CPU voltage control in Windows 11. I have no idea if the retail version of Windows 11 will continue to block the voltage control register or not. If they do, there is nothing that I can about that. The million people a year that download ThrottleStop is a drop in the bucket compared to the Windows 11 user base. Provide some feedback to Microsoft. If voltage control is important to you, you might be forced to continue using Windows 10.
damn that kinda sucks. i use wsl2 i cant just disable it.
 

unclewebb

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Does ThrottleStop CPU voltage control work correctly when WSL2 is enabled in Windows 10? It never used to in the Insider Preview versions but Microsoft might have fixed that in the retail release.

It seems like Windows 11 has created a new problem. If enough people complain to Microsoft, maybe they will change their mind and unlock and allow access to the register that controls the voltages.
 
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Well, for me, it doesnt work even in Win 10, but I have odd version and old HW.
 

henry432

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Does ThrottleStop CPU voltage control work correctly when WSL2 is enabled in Windows 10? It never used to in the Insider Preview versions but Microsoft might have fixed that in the retail release.

It seems like Windows 11 has created a new problem. If enough people complain to Microsoft, maybe they will change their mind and unlock and allow access to the register that controls the voltages.
yep it did
 

Locksley

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Your picture shows that Windows 11 is preventing ThrottleStop from reading information from and writing information to the CPU voltage control register. This one register has some other information like the memory speed and default turbo ratios.

Some developer versions of Windows 10 also had this same problem. In that situation, disabling the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) solved the problem.

If this does not work in Windows 11, you will have to see if there are any BIOS options that let you disable virtualization. Che0063 on the Notebook Review forum figured this out. ThrottleStop is working correctly for him in Windows 11. He has full access to CPU voltage control. Everything is working the same as Windows 10.




Some Alienware owners cannot disable VM in the BIOS so they will not have CPU voltage control in Windows 11. I have no idea if the retail version of Windows 11 will continue to block the voltage control register or not. If they do, there is nothing that I can about that. The million people a year that download ThrottleStop is a drop in the bucket compared to the Windows 11 user base. Provide some feedback to Microsoft. If voltage control is important to you, you might be forced to continue using Windows 10.

Disabling VM in bios worked partly for me. I am now able to write to cpu core and to Intel GPU but cache is still not updating. Run on an xps 15 9560 with i7-7700HQ
1625641106868.png
 

unclewebb

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@Locksley - It looks like it should work. Did you delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file? When you click on the FIVR Control - CPU Cache radio button, what happens when you make a voltage adjustment? When using ThrottleStop you have to adjust the core and cache offset voltages separately.
 

validate

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The main thing is, Virtualization-Based Security on Windows 11 has more features + protections than Windows 10. It also blocks reading-writing 0x150 Model Specific Register (MSR). If you manage to disable VBS on Windows 11, you will regain control of this MSR. Or maybe there should be implemented an exclusion feature for specific executables from Microsoft (or it is there but I do not know). Not all MSRs are protected as far as I know.

Note: If you enable Virtual Machine Platform, Hyper-V, etc., you cannot disable VBS, also on Windows 10.
 

Finesto

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I didn't change anything though it seems to be working for me on windows11, thats odd.

1633604137470.png


One question though, I seems to be that I can't change performance through windows anymore (in the taskbar).
Now I have to manually change speedshift through throttlestop, is there a different way through windows where I can change that? Preferably easily managed, through windows power plan it seems a waste of time.

Edit:
1633615778157.png


Interesting; Windows "best performance" now uses less performance than the windows 10 (Which was 0 EPP, now it is 84). Is there a reason for that?
I know it's not within OP's question, but I figure it's easier to use it on a relevant thread.
 
Last edited:

validate

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I didn't change anything though it seems to be working for me on windows11, thats odd.

View attachment 219880

One question though, I seems to be that I can't change performance through windows anymore (in the taskbar).
Now I have to manually change speedshift through throttlestop, is there a different way through windows where I can change that? Preferably easily managed, through windows power plan it seems a waste of time.

Edit: View attachment 219902

Interesting; Windows "best performance" now uses less performance than the windows 10 (Which was 0 EPP, now it is 84). Is there a reason for that?
I know it's not within OP's question, but I figure it's easier to use it on a relevant thread.
Balanced profile with High Performance preset also gives 84 on Windows 10. I think that VBS is somehow disabled if I say something for your UV status. You can check from “System Info” for VBS.
 

unclewebb

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it seems to be working for me on windows11
Did you do a new install or an upgrade? In Windows features, some users need to disable Hyper-V, Virtual Machine Platform, Windows Hypervisor Platform and Windows Sandbox. You might have to disable VMX in the BIOS too. Different computers have different stuff enabled by default. If you turn enough of these features off, ThrottleStop will work just fine in Windows 11. If you have problems, I would delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file after making any changes to Windows.

I look at the default Turbo Ratio Limits to determine if ThrottleStop is working correctly. If the default values are not being reported correctly, that means ThrottleStop is being blocked from accessing your CPU registers.

ThrottleStop is blocked.

1633623936314.png


ThrottleStop is OK

1633623865969.png


Moving the Windows 10 power slider to Best Performance in the System Tray used to set EPP to 84 for most computers. It is possible that your computer used to set EPP to 0 but default seemed to be 84.

Open a command window and type in,

powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

This will create a file called power.txt which will show all of the settings in your current power plan. These settings control what EPP value Windows uses.

Code:
    Power Setting GUID: 36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6863  (Processor energy performance preference policy)
      GUID Alias: PERFEPP
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000021
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000032

    Power Setting GUID: 36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6864  (Processor energy performance preference policy for Processor Power Efficiency Class 1)
      GUID Alias: PERFEPP1
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000021
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000032

If use see a current setting of 0x00000021 that is equivalent to 33 decimal.
33 X 255 / 100 = 84

That is where the EPP 84 value comes from. These commands let me adjust the default EPP on my Windows 10 desktop computer. Not sure if you will also have to adjust PERFEPP1 on a laptop.

powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_CURRENT SUB_PROCESSOR PERFEPP 0
powercfg /setdcvalueindex SCHEME_CURRENT SUB_PROCESSOR PERFEPP 0

After you make a change you will need to use this command for it to update.

powercfg /s SCHEME_CURRENT

Make sure that Speed Shift EPP is not checked in ThrottleStop so ThrottleStop and Windows are not fighting against each other over control of the EPP value going to the CPU. You can monitor what EPP value the CPU is using by looking at the EPP value in the FIVR monitoring table.
 

od1n0

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you should adjust to 0% PowePlan Latency sensitivity hint processor performance (subgroup 54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00 setting ID 619b7505-003b-4e82-b7a6-4dd29c300971) because with speedshift enabled windows switch epp to 0 when sensitivity is 99% based on workload and return to default epp value when worload go down. With 0% windows don't change epp value if you want a stable epp value <> 0 of course.
 
Last edited:

Cie

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Hi, hello.

I upgraded from W10 to W11 a week ago and ThrottleStop was working fine as intended, showing my voltage offsets as should be.
Today, I turned on Core Isolation after watching JarrodsTech video on the topic, he said that this was disabled by default on W10 laptops, and I thought it might be worth turning it on for the additional security.

After restarting, my undervolt got disabled and it looked like this:

coreisolationon.png


I turned off Core Isolation and it fixed it, it now looks like this:

coreisolationoff.png


Just a heads up that if you're having issues with your undervolt, turning this specific setting off might help.
 
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UnderVolterFan

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I'm actually falling back to Win10 until TPU fixes this issue. I tried disabling Core-Isolation (hint it was already disabled), and I tried disabling Virtualization in BIOS but it started asking for Bitlocker keys I wasn't in the mood to look up.

I'll just wait for a proper fix, or stay on Win10 forever.

Win11 is shaping up to be a Windows Vista, Windows 8.1, Windows ME, all over again.

Microsoft cannot break their tradition of a good OS followed by a Turd. It is inevitable.
 

unclewebb

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until TPU fixes this issue
What is TechPowerUp supposed to do to fix this issue?

Core isolation - Memory integrity is a safety feature that blocks direct access to various CPU registers including the CPU voltage control register. Only Microsoft can change this and they do not plan to do that. Windows 11 is all about improved security to keep the corporate customers happy. These security improvements reduce performance and they break software that needs direct access to the CPU registers. You cannot write software to fix what Microsoft has deliberately broken.

Windows 11 also reduces FPS. Why would any gamer want that?

If being in control of your computer is important to you then you will need to disable Memory Integrity, Virtual Machine Platform and anything else that prevents you from using programs like ThrottleStop.
 

validate

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I think I find a workaround for that: https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey
It seems that it sets voltages before booting. Did not try, though.

Note: If this is considered a promotion, please simply delete this comment, or warn me then I will delete it as soon as possible. I recently found this tool.
 

unclewebb

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@validate - PowerMonkey looks like it could solve a lot of problems for some new Windows 11 users. Some users cannot disable the Virtual Machine Platform and really need to be able to run apps like WSL2. If PowerMonkey can reliably apply offset voltages before hypervisor locks things down, this could save the day for many users.

After you check out PowerMonkey for a few days, maybe start a new thread in the ThrottleStop forum so users will have a better chance of finding this info and this new program.
 

validate

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@unclewebb Thank you for the response! One caveat: The values are not persistent after S3 sleeping. Hope that it works otherwise.
 

UnderVolterFan

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@unclewebb While I will concede you are the expert on this topic, historically speaking when Microsoft changes their security model or adds yet another layer between hardware access, there is usually some workaround (a call to the Hypervisor itself?) to allow direct control.

Fingers crossed anyway.
 

validate

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Well, I did manage to compile EFI with https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey#building---edk2-route, but cannot figure out how can we use that with Secure Boot at the moment. Anyway, that's the file with just -90mV on CPU core and cache. I will continue the investigation later. As a warning, compiling with Visual Studio was problematic. I'm sharing the file, but please take your own risk; and, please consider compile yourself first. I also haven't tried the EFI, at least for now.

@unclewebb Good news, it works with Overclocking Lock disabled. But interestingly, even Overclocking Lock is disabled, I cannot reach anything on Throttlestop as it says Locked, but the options including freq per core were there before, but I can clearly see that VID is indeed lower (respects -90mV offset), the fan runs less and the temperatures are dropped significantly. But, I have to disable secure boot. Doesn't work without Overclocking Lock disabled.
 
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Emanuele-1998

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Why Hyper-V disabling Undervolt? Fix this solution as an official
 

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