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Throttlestop on TigerLake-U i7 1165G7

Joined
Dec 2, 2020
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System Name Dell Inspiron 7306 2in1
Processor Intel i7 1165G7
Hi everyone,

I switched from my EliteBook x360 1030 G3 with Intel i5 8350u (Undervoltable) to my new Dell Inspiron 13 7306 with i7 1165G7. And to make a long story short this isn't worth it right now. I can undervolt my 8350u which makes it possible to run it smooth at 27w and temps staying in the 80is. Now with my new one I can only run at 20w to get it in the same temperature area. Elitebook and Inspiron aren't in the same category or priceclass but thats not the point right now.

I tried cinebench and some other tools and my new TikerLake CPU is at the same scores than my old i5 CPU (For example 700 Point on Cinebench R15 Multi, middled in 10 runs). This is very good for my old i5 which is nearly 3 years old but very poor for my new i7. And its also far away from the results from intel benchmarks.

To this point I already activated Ultra Performance in Bios, got the advanced energy profiles back for windows (which was a real pain) and used throttlestop to improve powerlimits and heat control. So I think I maxed out my possibilities to this point.

Do you have options for me which I didnt see?

This should not be about being able to undervolt or something but why are there no Voltages listed in FIVR on Throttlestop? And why the heck is undervolting still locked for icelake and tigerlake? I thought the plundervolt exploit doesn't affect this generation anymore?

Stay healthy and positive everyone.
 

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Probably need to wait for new version of ThrottleStop to add support for Intel 11th gen CPU, doesn't look like it's supported yet.
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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@Christian Reuter - The sad news is that for the 11th Gen U series, Intel has either blocked access to the FIVR controls or the FIVR that they have been using since the 4th Gen Haswell no longer exists in this design. Personally, I think Intel simply blocked access but I am always looking for a conspiracy to uncover.

This means that ThrottleStop can neither read or write any of the FIVR voltages like it used to do on previous generation Intel CPUs. That is why the voltage table in the ThrottleStop FIVR window is mostly blank.

It is possible that the 11th Gen H series will restore this feature or it might be reserved for the K series. Intel does not like to give anything away. Maybe you will need to hand over some extra money to get the voltage control feature enabled in their upcoming CPUs.

The 11th Gen U has great potential in theory but without voltage control, it is no better than Intel's previous CPUs. Thanks for confirming that.

Edit - Here is an example of why Intel likely decided to lock down their 11th Gen U series. The 10th Gen were beasts that could easily compete and beat their more expensive H series CPUs.

 
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Joined
Dec 2, 2020
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System Name Dell Inspiron 7306 2in1
Processor Intel i7 1165G7
@unclewebb Thanks for this information. :rockout: Still sad to hear. I guess what intel might want to say is that we should just forget about it.

@INTEL NO! THESE ARE OUR SYSTEMS AND WE ALREADY PAID FOR THEM! :mad:

At the moment I really get in touch with this CPU but i'm still trying to understand it. The cinebench benchmarks aren't that big deal but I got the conclusion that I'm comparing not fair.

My i5 8350u is undervolted, I know the system very well and it's old so I would say i got the maximum out of this system.

On the other hand the i7 1165G7 is just released. So maybe there will be some updates or good guys who will find a way to give us back control over our own devices. I understand the idea behind taking the knife from the playing child and I also see that many persons would brick their devices but right now no one can get the knife which is plain stupid by intel. :banghead:

Especially when you see the scores of Apples M1 and actual Ryzen CPUs o_O

I'm using the Razer Core X with a Radeon Vega 56 as an external GPU and at the moment I don't get why I have so good scores with the 1165G7.
For example with 3D Mark Firestrike
i5 8350u 13052 Points
i7 1165G7 15100 Points.

This boost is huge and I also see this in ingame testing which I tried today. For example GTA Online, Shadow of the Tomb Raider or Kingdom Come Deliverance I have at least 10 FPS more.

At the moment i'm guessing either on the RAM. I have DDR4 3200 on the i5 and LPDDR4X 4256 on the i7 or on the Thunderbolt 4 Port, which has the same bandwith with 40Gb/s as the Thunderbolt 3 Port on the Elitebook but is now integrated on the chip so there could be a improvement in latency.

Right now I would say Thunderbolt 4 is the keymaker for this system for me. Still don't see any benefit in upgrading the GPU because only a few games are getting 99% GPU-Usage so the CPU and Thunderbolt remain the bottlenecks for gaming.
But hey... 15100 Points on Firestrike? Not bad for this setup.
 
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Benchmark Scores Highest Cinebench R15 is 810, but usually mid 720-790 range (resurrected from 420s by ThrottleStop)
@unclewebb is right about this... definitely not a conspiracy theory. Intel basically manufactures a bunch of chips, and the ones that come out the best have all their cores and features enabled and are sold as the higher end ones, while the worse binned ones that are not stable with everything enabled are sold as lower tier chips which. This basically means that even the U series chips have the same tech in them as the better stuff. Hence they don't want you milking a cheaper component. I can get in the 30-40W range depending on temperature and how warm the area around my charging port is (where the coil whine also comes from) on my i7-8565U based Dell laptop since I took the performance killing BIOS-updates as an excuse to play with ThrottleStop on a super expensive ($1500) laptop and I upgraded from the 432-point range to 750+ (100+ higher than out-of-the-box stock) on Cinebench R15. Now unless I'm pushing my machine hard and it throttles, I'm racing ahead (both idle and during use) at the maximum all-core turbo of 4090MHz and this thing feels snappier than brand new. I can only imagine when they find a way to prevent users from messing with the power limits, and in that case we are left at the mercy of the laptop manufacturers and will have to tolerate planned-obsolescence via BIOS updates. I literally caught Dell decreasing PL1 from 26W to 15W with updates! RED HANDED! They even messed up the fan algorithm, which I fixed by forcing the fans to max all the time so it can cool itself decently, but I can't get the fan speeds I had on stock settings before the bad updates... Sorry Dell, not only did you mess with the wrong geek who can fix your planned obsolescence but you also just lost a potential future customer.

Oh, and if my setup sounds like a heat problem, I did improve the cooling by putting furniture feet on the bottom of my laptop. Dell's genius engineers made this laptop in a way it suffocates itself on your desk.
 
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System Name Dell Inspiron 7306 2in1
Processor Intel i7 1165G7
@CompuNerd2K That sounds great. Which device do you have? The Elitebook x360 and the Inspiron 7306 are both ultra slim devices and both limited to thermal throttling. On my Elitebook there is a limit around 27W and the Inspiron is power limited around 18,5-20W, which I couldnt get over with throttlestop (could still try and mess around with bios or intel dynamic tuning but dont want to). Still the Inspiron already runs hotter with 20W (fan control is on maximum using hwinfo).

I'm sending the Inspiron back to Dell right now. Integrated Thunderbolt 4 is a big step for egpu usage but the cpu overall performance isn''t what I was hoping for. I guess I'll have to wait for Intel TigerLake H or Comet Lake S or maybe Ryzen with USB4/Thunderbolt 3 Support.

Don't get me wrong. I totaly get the physical limit with this thin devices so maybe I will look after a larger device in the future.
 

v12dock

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I picked up the envy x360 which runs great until it starts throttling which at point the fan starts screaming and i'm also having issues with Xe. I'm thinking about returning and getting something else.
 
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System Name Inspiron 15 7590 2in1
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Software Windows 10 20H2
Benchmark Scores Highest Cinebench R15 is 810, but usually mid 720-790 range (resurrected from 420s by ThrottleStop)
@CompuNerd2K That sounds great. Which device do you have? The Elitebook x360 and the Inspiron 7306 are both ultra slim devices and both limited to thermal throttling. On my Elitebook there is a limit around 27W and the Inspiron is power limited around 18,5-20W, which I couldnt get over with throttlestop (could still try and mess around with bios or intel dynamic tuning but dont want to). Still the Inspiron already runs hotter with 20W (fan control is on maximum using hwinfo).

I'm sending the Inspiron back to Dell right now. Integrated Thunderbolt 4 is a big step for egpu usage but the cpu overall performance isn''t what I was hoping for. I guess I'll have to wait for Intel TigerLake H or Comet Lake S or maybe Ryzen with USB4/Thunderbolt 3 Support.

Don't get me wrong. I totaly get the physical limit with this thin devices so maybe I will look after a larger device in the future.

I have an Inspiron 15 7590 2in1. Was annoyed that Dell messed up the performance on a freaking $1500 laptop. Had to get rid of the undervolting last we but it still performs quite decent. Thing got unstable as all hell with undervolting and I couldn't fix it. I'm still usually hitting 36W max in the best moments now which is still great, but I can sustain only a few hundred MHz less than undervolted. Sadly I might be looking at a hardware failure coming in the near future as I am experiencing once in a while some random hard crashes (screen blacks out, sound buzzes for a second and reboot, or freeze+buzzing) for no reason (I removed the undervolting, what more does this CPU or motherboard or whatever is messing with me want???) w/o BSOD. I'm still impressed I can get decent performance without undervolting as my first attempt at that worked way worse but maybe something else I played with in the mean time made it work better this time. O, and on a side note, the extreme CPU throttling down to 400-1500MHz in games can be easily fixed setting the GPU to run within Nvidia specs instead of Dell's attempted overclock that they pushed through an update (cursed EDP limits).

I picked up the envy x360 which runs great until it starts throttling which at point the fan starts screaming and i'm also having issues with Xe. I'm thinking about returning and getting something else.

Looks like cooling is insufficient and power limit tweaking won't help there. At least your fan algorithm is better than Dell's which doesn't kick the fan on until the CPU has been at 100C for an extended period of time and has already begun terribly throttling (nothing a little fan control software can't fix but still...)
 

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Has anyone found a way to increase TDP limits on a TGL U? For example the i7-1165G7? My system (a Lenovo ThinkBook 14s Yoga ITL) settles down to its 25W TDP and then runs at around 70c. I have thermal headroom and I want to use it, but I am unable to make it stick to higher clocks for long due to power limits. No need to undervolt in this case, even, just having more TDP to play with would be quite good for me here.
 

docarter

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Has anyone found a way to increase TDP limits on a TGL U? For example the i7-1165G7? My system (a Lenovo ThinkBook 14s Yoga ITL) settles down to its 25W TDP and then runs at around 70c. I have thermal headroom and I want to use it, but I am unable to make it stick to higher clocks for long due to power limits. No need to undervolt in this case, even, just having more TDP to play with would be quite good for me here.
I have the Inspiron 14 7000 with the 1165g7 and also have issues with power limits.

Does Throttlestop not allow you to increase them on your YogaBook?
 
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Nothing I change seems to stick. Either I am doing something wrong in Throttlestop (I am new to it), or this is locked down hard.
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Some Dell and Lenovo laptops use the EC to force the power limits to a fixed value. ThrottleStop cannot solve that. Try the latest version and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Post some screenshots or a log file so I can see what is going on. Do you get power limit throttling in Cinebench R20?
 
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docarter

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Some Dell and Lenovo laptops use the EC to force the power limits to a fixed value. ThrottleStop cannot solve that. Try the latest version and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Post some screenshots or a log file so I can see what is going on.Do you get power limit throttling in Cinebench R20?
We discussed this on Reddit previously. I believe it is the EC issue. I have spoken with someone at Dell corporate and they are investigating.

Here's the log:

Code:
   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2021-01-24  19:15:20  18.83   12.3  100.0       0   41   1.0974    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:21  16.65    2.6  100.0       0   42   0.6924    1.7
2021-01-24  19:15:22  19.02    5.6  100.0       0   42   0.6849    3.2
2021-01-24  19:15:23  15.54    4.9  100.0       0   42   0.6699    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:24  14.87    2.1  100.0       0   41   0.6875    1.2
2021-01-24  19:15:25  14.59    2.7  100.0       0   41   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:26  14.66    5.2  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.3
2021-01-24  19:15:27  14.74    3.7  100.0       0   41   0.6699    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:28  14.21    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.6849    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:29  15.08    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6924    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:30  14.70    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6775    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:31  14.27    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:32  14.96    5.4  100.0       0   38   0.6875    2.2
2021-01-24  19:15:33  20.87    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:34  17.99    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:35  20.13    4.7  100.0       0   39   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:36  26.74    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6799    5.2
2021-01-24  19:15:37  17.59    6.4  100.0       0   40   0.6849    2.9
2021-01-24  19:15:38  24.15    6.6  100.0       0   39   0.6899    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:39  19.51    5.6  100.0       0   38   0.9924    3.0
2021-01-24  19:15:40  25.08    7.3  100.0       0   40   0.6775    5.0
2021-01-24  19:15:41  20.18    8.1  100.0       0   43   1.1949    4.5
2021-01-24  19:15:42  37.77   12.0  100.0       0   44   1.0299    9.7
2021-01-24  19:15:43  25.12    6.2  100.0       0   39   0.7024    3.7
2021-01-24  19:15:44  30.44    7.0  100.0       0   40   0.6949    4.2
2021-01-24  19:15:45  33.46   22.1  100.0       0   41   0.6799    9.9
2021-01-24  19:15:46  15.08    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    2.5
2021-01-24  19:15:47  18.51    6.3  100.0       0   40   0.6949    3.1
2021-01-24  19:15:48  26.08    7.4  100.0       0   40   0.8849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:49  32.23    9.0  100.0       0   41   0.7124    6.0
2021-01-24  19:15:50  21.93    6.0  100.0       0   41   1.0299    3.3
2021-01-24  19:15:51  29.32    7.5  100.0       0   41   0.7625    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:52  30.40    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6949    3.9
2021-01-24  19:15:53  40.34   10.8  100.0       0   46   1.2174    8.3
2021-01-24  19:15:54  25.86    2.2  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:55  15.72    1.5  100.0       0   41   0.7100    1.1
2021-01-24  19:15:56  25.06    2.9  100.0       0   41   0.7074    1.9
2021-01-24  19:15:57  25.28    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.7450    2.6
2021-01-24  19:15:58  30.42    7.6  100.0       0   41   0.8925    5.6
2021-01-24  19:15:59  32.27    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    4.3
2021-01-24  19:16:00  22.80    3.6  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.0
2021-01-24  19:16:01  21.93    1.0  100.0       0   40   0.9049    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:02  23.83    4.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:03  21.58    1.1  100.0       0   41   0.6899    0.8
2021-01-24  19:16:04  30.53    3.3  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:05  29.74    3.3  100.0       0   40   0.9049    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:06  23.60    5.7  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:07  24.01    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.8774    3.4
2021-01-24  19:16:08  14.74    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:09  36.47    7.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    5.2
2021-01-24  19:16:10  15.51    3.8  100.0       0   41   0.6725    1.7
2021-01-24  19:16:11  24.67    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:12  20.57    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.7150    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:13  22.35    5.6  100.0       0   41   0.6899    2.8
2021-01-24  19:16:14  32.52    9.1  100.0       0   44   1.0299    5.5
2021-01-24  19:16:15  19.37    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:16  28.26    6.7  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:16:17  22.06    6.2  100.0       0   43   1.0299    3.1
2021-01-24  19:16:18  27.20    8.1  100.0       0   41   0.7274    4.7
2021-01-24  19:16:19  25.94    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:20  21.26    6.1  100.0       0   41   0.8250    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:21  21.97    7.4  100.0       0   42   0.7625    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:22  21.71    4.5  100.0       0   41   0.7274    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:31  18.85   10.7  100.0       0   41   0.8824    4.1
2021-01-24  19:16:32  19.08    4.0  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:16:33  17.46    3.9  100.0       0   41   0.6924    2.3
2021-01-24  19:16:34  17.40    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6749    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:35  17.85    6.4  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.9
2021-01-24  19:16:36  14.39    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:38  39.58   61.5  100.0       0   65   1.0349   21.7
2021-01-24  19:16:39  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   69   1.0325   39.2
2021-01-24  19:16:40  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   39.4
2021-01-24  19:16:41  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.0349   39.6
2021-01-24  19:16:42  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   40.1
2021-01-24  19:16:43  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   78   1.0349   40.4
2021-01-24  19:16:44  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0349   40.9
2021-01-24  19:16:45  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0349   41.1
2021-01-24  19:16:46  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   84   1.0375   42.1
2021-01-24  19:16:47  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   86   1.0375   41.5
2021-01-24  19:16:48  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.2
2021-01-24  19:16:49  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.5
2021-01-24  19:16:50  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   43.0
2021-01-24  19:16:51  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   43.9
2021-01-24  19:16:52  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   43.4
2021-01-24  19:16:53  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   44.2
2021-01-24  19:16:54  40.87  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   44.1
2021-01-24  19:16:55  40.34  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   43.0   TEMP
2021-01-24  19:16:56  39.48  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   41.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:57  25.16  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.6924   20.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:58  21.29  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7100   12.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:59  20.32  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7024   12.6   PL1
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
3,719 (0.77/day)
The last few seconds of your log file are interesting. You should have kept testing.

Thermal throttling is triggering extreme power limit throttling. Other laptops do not do this. Only Dell. Defective by design. Intel thermal throttling works fantastic. What Dell has done is a disaster. I would send it back. These issues usually get worse as Dell aptops age.
 

docarter

New Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
17 (0.09/day)
The last few seconds of your log file are interesting. You should have kept testing.

Thermal throttling is triggering extreme power limit throttling. Other laptops do not do this. Only Dell. Defective by design. Intel thermal throttling works fantastic. What Dell has done is a disaster. I would send it back. These issues usually get worse as Dell aptops age.
So, the reason why it throttled so badly is because on battery the PL1 is only 15w. When plugged in it will deliver ~27w continuously. It just happens to ignore Throttlestop completely.
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
3,719 (0.77/day)
You were plugged in during the log file. Intel thermal throttling would allow the CPU to continue providing as much performance as possible. The temperature should flatline at 99C.

Dell throttling drops performance in half or worse. That is not what Intel wants to see happen. That is not how Intel designed their CPUs to perform when they get hot.
 

docarter

New Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
17 (0.09/day)
You were plugged in during the log file. Intel thermal throttling would allow the CPU to continue providing as much performance as possible. The temperature should flatline at 99C.

Dell throttling drops performance in half or worse. That is not what Intel wants to see happen. That is not how Intel designed their CPUs to perform when they get hot.
This is additional logging, the device is plugged in after 2021-01-24 20:50:59 40.77 5.4 100.0 0 41 0.6699 6.6:


Code:
   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2021-01-24  19:15:20  18.83   12.3  100.0       0   41   1.0974    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:21  16.65    2.6  100.0       0   42   0.6924    1.7
2021-01-24  19:15:22  19.02    5.6  100.0       0   42   0.6849    3.2
2021-01-24  19:15:23  15.54    4.9  100.0       0   42   0.6699    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:24  14.87    2.1  100.0       0   41   0.6875    1.2
2021-01-24  19:15:25  14.59    2.7  100.0       0   41   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:26  14.66    5.2  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.3
2021-01-24  19:15:27  14.74    3.7  100.0       0   41   0.6699    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:28  14.21    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.6849    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:29  15.08    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6924    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:30  14.70    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6775    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:31  14.27    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:32  14.96    5.4  100.0       0   38   0.6875    2.2
2021-01-24  19:15:33  20.87    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:34  17.99    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:35  20.13    4.7  100.0       0   39   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:36  26.74    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6799    5.2
2021-01-24  19:15:37  17.59    6.4  100.0       0   40   0.6849    2.9
2021-01-24  19:15:38  24.15    6.6  100.0       0   39   0.6899    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:39  19.51    5.6  100.0       0   38   0.9924    3.0
2021-01-24  19:15:40  25.08    7.3  100.0       0   40   0.6775    5.0
2021-01-24  19:15:41  20.18    8.1  100.0       0   43   1.1949    4.5
2021-01-24  19:15:42  37.77   12.0  100.0       0   44   1.0299    9.7
2021-01-24  19:15:43  25.12    6.2  100.0       0   39   0.7024    3.7
2021-01-24  19:15:44  30.44    7.0  100.0       0   40   0.6949    4.2
2021-01-24  19:15:45  33.46   22.1  100.0       0   41   0.6799    9.9
2021-01-24  19:15:46  15.08    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    2.5
2021-01-24  19:15:47  18.51    6.3  100.0       0   40   0.6949    3.1
2021-01-24  19:15:48  26.08    7.4  100.0       0   40   0.8849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:49  32.23    9.0  100.0       0   41   0.7124    6.0
2021-01-24  19:15:50  21.93    6.0  100.0       0   41   1.0299    3.3
2021-01-24  19:15:51  29.32    7.5  100.0       0   41   0.7625    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:52  30.40    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6949    3.9
2021-01-24  19:15:53  40.34   10.8  100.0       0   46   1.2174    8.3
2021-01-24  19:15:54  25.86    2.2  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:55  15.72    1.5  100.0       0   41   0.7100    1.1
2021-01-24  19:15:56  25.06    2.9  100.0       0   41   0.7074    1.9
2021-01-24  19:15:57  25.28    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.7450    2.6
2021-01-24  19:15:58  30.42    7.6  100.0       0   41   0.8925    5.6
2021-01-24  19:15:59  32.27    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    4.3
2021-01-24  19:16:00  22.80    3.6  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.0
2021-01-24  19:16:01  21.93    1.0  100.0       0   40   0.9049    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:02  23.83    4.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:03  21.58    1.1  100.0       0   41   0.6899    0.8
2021-01-24  19:16:04  30.53    3.3  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:05  29.74    3.3  100.0       0   40   0.9049    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:06  23.60    5.7  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:07  24.01    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.8774    3.4
2021-01-24  19:16:08  14.74    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:09  36.47    7.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    5.2
2021-01-24  19:16:10  15.51    3.8  100.0       0   41   0.6725    1.7
2021-01-24  19:16:11  24.67    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:12  20.57    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.7150    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:13  22.35    5.6  100.0       0   41   0.6899    2.8
2021-01-24  19:16:14  32.52    9.1  100.0       0   44   1.0299    5.5
2021-01-24  19:16:15  19.37    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:16  28.26    6.7  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:16:17  22.06    6.2  100.0       0   43   1.0299    3.1
2021-01-24  19:16:18  27.20    8.1  100.0       0   41   0.7274    4.7
2021-01-24  19:16:19  25.94    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:20  21.26    6.1  100.0       0   41   0.8250    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:21  21.97    7.4  100.0       0   42   0.7625    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:22  21.71    4.5  100.0       0   41   0.7274    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:31  18.85   10.7  100.0       0   41   0.8824    4.1
2021-01-24  19:16:32  19.08    4.0  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:16:33  17.46    3.9  100.0       0   41   0.6924    2.3
2021-01-24  19:16:34  17.40    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6749    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:35  17.85    6.4  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.9
2021-01-24  19:16:36  14.39    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:38  39.58   61.5  100.0       0   65   1.0349   21.7
2021-01-24  19:16:39  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   69   1.0325   39.2
2021-01-24  19:16:40  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   39.4
2021-01-24  19:16:41  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.0349   39.6
2021-01-24  19:16:42  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   40.1
2021-01-24  19:16:43  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   78   1.0349   40.4
2021-01-24  19:16:44  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0349   40.9
2021-01-24  19:16:45  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0349   41.1
2021-01-24  19:16:46  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   84   1.0375   42.1
2021-01-24  19:16:47  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   86   1.0375   41.5
2021-01-24  19:16:48  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.2
2021-01-24  19:16:49  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.5
2021-01-24  19:16:50  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   43.0
2021-01-24  19:16:51  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   43.9
2021-01-24  19:16:52  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   43.4
2021-01-24  19:16:53  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   44.2
2021-01-24  19:16:54  40.87  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   44.1
2021-01-24  19:16:55  40.34  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   43.0   TEMP
2021-01-24  19:16:56  39.48  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   41.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:57  25.16  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.6924   20.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:58  21.29  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7100   12.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:59  20.32  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7024   12.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:00  21.93  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.7124   13.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:01  20.76  100.0  100.0       0   75   0.6949   12.9   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:02  21.63  100.0  100.0       0   74   0.6949   13.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:03  22.67  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7050   13.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:04  22.32  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7450   13.1   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:05  21.97  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7150   13.7   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:06  23.95  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7450   14.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:07  24.42  100.0  100.0       0   72   0.7450   15.3   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:08  23.60  100.0  100.0       0   71   0.7324   14.3   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:09  22.97  100.0  100.0       0   70   0.7024   13.9   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:10  24.40  100.0  100.0       0   71   0.7450   14.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:11  23.28  100.0  100.0       0   69   0.7024   14.5   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:12  21.59   49.5  100.0       0   64   0.6599    8.1
2021-01-24  19:17:13  18.12    6.3  100.0       0   62   0.6575    3.1
2021-01-24  19:17:14  18.21    5.9  100.0       0   61   0.6675    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:15  20.75    5.5  100.0       0   60   0.6649    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:16  14.61    4.5  100.0       0   60   0.6675    2.3
2021-01-24  19:17:17  18.65    5.5  100.0       0   58   0.6575    3.2
2021-01-24  19:17:18  15.33    3.5  100.0       0   57   0.6699    1.9
2021-01-24  19:17:19  26.06    4.4  100.0       0   57   0.6649    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:20  18.99    5.5  100.0       0   56   0.6675    2.6
2021-01-24  19:17:21  31.13    4.4  100.0       0   55   0.6575    3.2
2021-01-24  19:17:22  27.49    7.0  100.0       0   55   0.6949    4.4
2021-01-24  19:17:23  24.68    6.6  100.0       0   54   0.6725    3.4
2021-01-24  19:17:24  21.33    0.9  100.0       0   52   0.7024    0.7
2021-01-24  19:17:25  19.10    2.2  100.0       0   53   0.6675    1.2
2021-01-24  19:17:26  17.78    4.5  100.0       0   51   0.6849    2.1
2021-01-24  19:17:27  23.41    5.4  100.0       0   55   1.0325    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:28  38.24    8.8  100.0       0   51   0.6949    6.8
2021-01-24  19:17:29  19.62    1.2  100.0       0   49   0.6799    0.8
2021-01-24  19:17:30  25.75    7.4  100.0       0   51   0.6849    5.3
2021-01-24  19:17:31  21.09    4.1  100.0       0   49   0.6875    2.3
2021-01-24  19:17:32  26.79    6.0  100.0       0   48   0.8999    4.3
2021-01-24  19:17:33  20.29    5.6  100.0       0   48   0.7450    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:34  14.42    4.5  100.0       0   48   0.8849    2.0
2021-01-24  19:17:35  26.75    6.5  100.0       0   47   0.7725    4.0
2021-01-24  19:17:36  16.48    5.1  100.0       0   47   0.6799    2.2
2021-01-24  19:17:37  19.24    5.6  100.0       0   47   0.7124    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:38  20.87    5.7  100.0       0   47   0.7250    2.6
2021-01-24  19:17:39  19.03    3.7  100.0       0   46   0.6749    1.7
2021-01-24  19:17:40  16.55    5.2  100.0       0   45   0.6725    2.2
2021-01-24  20:50:59  40.77    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6699    6.6
2021-01-24  20:51:00  38.90    8.0  100.0       0   41   0.6775    7.7
2021-01-24  20:51:01  40.29    8.1  100.0       0   40   0.6775    8.1
2021-01-24  20:51:02  41.97    6.0  100.0       0   41   0.6699    6.9
2021-01-24  20:51:03  40.19   69.1  100.0       0   68   1.0325   27.5
2021-01-24  20:51:04  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   70   1.0325   41.9
2021-01-24  20:51:05  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   41.5
2021-01-24  20:51:06  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   75   1.0349   42.7
2021-01-24  20:51:07  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   43.0
2021-01-24  20:51:08  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   79   1.0349   43.1
2021-01-24  20:51:09  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0375   43.3
2021-01-24  20:51:10  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0375   43.8
2021-01-24  20:51:11  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85   1.0349   44.7
2021-01-24  20:51:12  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85   1.0349   44.6
2021-01-24  20:51:13  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   88   1.0375   45.0
2021-01-24  20:51:14  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   45.1
2021-01-24  20:51:15  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   45.0
2021-01-24  20:51:16  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   46.0
2021-01-24  20:51:17  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   46.1
2021-01-24  20:51:18  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:19  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   98   1.0375   46.7
2021-01-24  20:51:20  37.97   32.3  100.0       0   69   0.6449   19.1
2021-01-24  20:51:21  17.74    1.8  100.0       0   68   0.6525    3.1
2021-01-24  20:51:22  15.08    2.2  100.0       0   66   0.6499    2.6
2021-01-24  20:51:23  15.10    3.4  100.0       0   65   0.6699    3.4
2021-01-24  20:51:24  16.92    3.8  100.0       0   61   0.6475    3.6
2021-01-24  20:51:25  16.18    3.6  100.0       0   60   0.6649    3.3
2021-01-24  20:51:26  38.22   48.8  100.0       0   85   1.0349   21.1
2021-01-24  20:51:27  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   44.6
2021-01-24  20:51:28  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   45.3
2021-01-24  20:51:29  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   45.5
2021-01-24  20:51:30  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   44.9
2021-01-24  20:51:31  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   94   1.0375   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:32  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   46.2
2021-01-24  20:51:33  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   46.2
2021-01-24  20:51:34  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   98   1.0375   46.5
2021-01-24  20:51:35  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   46.6
2021-01-24  20:51:36  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   46.8
2021-01-24  20:51:37  41.00  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0375   46.8
2021-01-24  20:51:38  40.76  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:39  40.41  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   46.5   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:40  40.01  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   45.1   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:41  39.78  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   44.5   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:42  34.62  100.0  100.0       0   85   0.8574   31.8   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:43  31.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   0.8424   24.7   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:44  31.49  100.0  100.0       0   81   0.8574   24.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:45  31.52  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8424   25.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:46  31.71  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8450   25.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:47  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8600   25.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:48  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8600   25.2   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:49  32.13  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   25.8   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:50  31.74  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   26.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:51  31.36  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.8450   26.3   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:52  31.78  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   25.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:53  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   26.3   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:54  32.15  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.8600   26.0   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:55  32.30  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   27.0   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:56  32.03  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   25.9   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:57  32.96  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8750   26.2   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:58  32.83  100.0  100.0       0   76   0.8600   26.7   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:59  32.12  100.0  100.0       0   75   0.8600   26.7   PL1
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
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System Name Dell Inspiron 7306 2in1
Processor Intel i7 1165G7
Hey Christian, do you still own the Inspiron?
Yes. After updates from Dell the inspiron is now stuck to PL1 18w. I dont get the system behind it but it seems to be thermal based. So I lowered the PL2 to 25W and raised fanspeeds. Now the inspiron isnt falling back to PL1 18w, which is set by Dell and stays with my PL1 25W, which is set by throttlestop. Temps have to stay in the 80s to work this way. Its a real stupid workaround and not working everytime but last chance would be to edit biossettings and I dont want to try that.
 

docarter

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Jan 24, 2021
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Yes. After updates from Dell the inspiron is now stuck to PL1 18w. I dont get the system behind it but it seems to be thermal based. So I lowered the PL2 to 25W and raised fanspeeds. Now the inspiron isnt falling back to PL1 18w, which is set by Dell and stays with my PL1 25W, which is set by throttlestop. Temps have to stay in the 80s to work this way. Its a real stupid workaround and not working everytime but last chance would be to edit biossettings and I dont want to try that.

I'm working with a nice guy at Dell corporate. Do you want to pm me your email and service tag? Or possibly submit your own ticket to help this get resolved?

Currently awaiting word back from Dell's engineering team after Kevin Terwilliger at Dell got involved. (He's apparently head of Inspiron and Vostro devices at Dell).
 

thealgo

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Joined
Jan 27, 2021
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As soon as i saw these posts, I had to create an account and post my experiences with dell regarding this

I too have a dell inspiron 7306 2 in 1 with the tigerlake 1165g7. It really suffers from bad thermal design due to its very small exhaust (1cm x 2mm) as well as having part of the exhaust in the right hinge as well.

With all drivers installed and windows fully up to date, the PL1 is 15w and PL2 is 51w by default. This PL1 can rise up to 25w or so but quickly goes down too.

Pl1 and PL2 can actually be changed, but only to lower values than what is showing in (for example hwinfo). These changes made will not update in hwinfo but will be made

Unfortunately it is absolutely not possible to set PL1 or PL2 values to higher than what is showing. The system will first check, the changed values and if they are lower than pl1 or pl2, then will use the changed values. Furthermore even in ultra performance mode plugged into battery. This so called 25w pl1 quickly goes back down to 15w. I even set Pl1 and PL2 to 18w. So that the device will stay within 80c temps, but this pl1 goes up and down like a yo-yo from 15-18w when on load (even when temps are managable under 80c).. I also artificially capped max frequency to 4ghz as i noticed that temps per core in stresstests in single core tests would hop over and reach 100c in one core only but the rest were 70c or so

This is what i had written in a dell forum (inspiron section here) https://www.dell.com/community/Insp...s-requested-to-improve-the-device/m-p/7787235 text as below...

Inspiron 7306 - Some fixes requested to improve the device
Having owned this laptop now for a few months (i7 1165g7, 16gb 4267 lpddr4x ram). There are a few frustrations with it. But i believe with some fixes to the issues (if possible on a bios level or driver update) - would give the laptop a whole new lease of life

Locked PL1
On battery, PL1 (Power limit 1) is fixed to 15w. While this is ok for battery use, It would be nice to allow some control over it. For example using quickcpu application or throttlestop, it is possible to change these values, but only to lower values as to what is set as default (15w) - These changes also do not update when using for example hwinfo to check pl1 and pl2 - they do however change internally - only to any value that is set under 15w. My proposal - Allow pl1 to be changed with no limits to higher values if need be (or at least include a 17-18w option or so (the thermals, even though they are bad, can handle it just about at manageable temps)

Locked PL2
Not much problem with this at all, as PL2 is set to 51w, and can be changed to any value lower. No further change needed

PL1 adjustment on Power

Even in Ultra performance mode, this is very poor. It can go up to 25w but after a minute, the PL1 changes back down to 15w. Overall. Would be good to have a 15w fixed, 18w fixed and 25w fixed profile (not to make the system auto change the pl1. Yes, it would get understandably hot at 25w, but should throttle down when reaching temp threshold

Temp Threshold adjustment
Its very common for the laptop to reach temps of 100c (Its just my laptop model, but several users of the same laptop have had the same issue. It would be nice to allow user configurable temperature threshold (say 90c or so if need be)

3200mhz speed ram for intel XE?
The device has 4267mhz ram. But when using gpu-z, the ram is showing as 3200mhz (1600x2). ? Why is this the case? Is the ram downclocked fully to 3200mhz rather than the 4267 which it should be at?

Its not a problem with gpu-z, as i have seen other tigerlake laptops and gpu-z record 4000 (2000x2) or 4166 (2133x2). Furthermore the ram is constantly static at 1600x2, it is not even dynamic, decreasing where necessary. Can all this as well as getting the 4266mhz ram be rectified in the bios? Its rather annoying to see a laptop advertised with ram speed 4267mhz where its actually limited to 3200mhz

High Uncore Wattages
When setting the laptop say to 15w tdp. There is some power that is used by the uncore/cache etc. This is typically in the region of 4-5w on load which only in turn gives the cpu and gpu an average of 10w power (from the 15w wattage set). Some other tigerlake laptops have the uncore at 1 or even 2w less power on full load. I was able to reduce the uncore slightly by turning on maximum power savings in the link pci option in power settings, but it is still too high. Any way this can somewhat be reduced further?

Ok that is my rant over. If PL1 can be unlocked fully (allowinhg to set it to any TDP value (or at least have static 15w, 17w, 18w etc options, it would be great. and none of the dynamic pl1 scaling which works horribly bad. Furthermore, unlocking the ram speed to 4266mhz would also be nice and help with mobile laptop "gaming" as the igpu is heavily dependant on fast ram for performance.




The response i recieved in my personal email was basically "sorry, we cannot do anything about it, hope our assistance has been of help"...

First email recieved Hi thealgorithm, unfortunately, the query posted doesn't fall under our preview of support. The parameters listed will not be available for driver or BIOS level changes. Do reach back to us if you have any hardware issue on the system that we can assist you, and we would be here to help. Regards"

and the second one

Hi thealgorithm, we hope that your query has been addressed. We will be archiving this case for now. Do reach back to us if you have any query, and we would be here to assist. Regards,


So much for paying £1200+ for a laptop and not to even implement at least some static form of pl1 changing instead of the random dynamic pl1 adjustment even when temps are manageable!
 

docarter

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Jan 24, 2021
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Hey, so I'm in contact with an "International Product Support Principle Engineer" at Dell who is reaching out to various members of Dell's bios and DPM teams to alert them of the power limit issue and to make revisions. If you're interested, please pm me with your email, system info, and service tag and I will forward this complaint along with my own. I will also further investigate the ram speed and my system shows the same values in gpu-z.

It is worth noting: Dell quotes your laptop at 15w versus 28w for my 14 7000. See: https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/inspiron-13-7306-2-in-1-laptop_users-guide2_en-us.pdf


As for temperatures, the Inspiron 14 7000 (7400) does much better, sustaining 27w at around 75C.
 

thealgo

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Thanks. Its not so much the thermals thats the main issue. I at least want to be able for it to have static pl1 such as 18w and for it to absolutely not shift back below this value. The thermals can handle that. For dell to have a performance mode and to only have that performance mode usable for 40 seconds is absurd (though i can understand that the laptop (7306) cannot really run sustained at 26w. (at least let it sustain at 18w)

I have pm'd you my details
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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With the 11th Gen processors, Intel has changed their TDP rating system. The 10th Gen and earlier processors used to come with a default TDP value. That has been removed from Intel's specs. The 11th Gen have a TDP-up rating of 28W and a TDP-down rating of 12W. At TechSpot they call this the "operating range".


As long as the CPU is running somewhere within this range, it is technically running within spec. The log files posted do not seem to show power limit throttling at less than 12W.

Individual manufacturers that use the 1165G7 can decide how this CPU will run within their laptop. It is up to consumers to decide whether that level of performance is acceptable or not.

@docarter - Your log file is showing that Dell is allowing your 1165G7 to run at up to 47W. This is well beyond the TDP range that Intel recommends. This causes thermal throttling which then triggers Dell's power limit throttling scheme. I disagree with this scheme but it is a huge improvement compared to the throttling schemes that Dell were using 12+ years ago. Their Core 2 Duo based laptops could drop their performance down to approximately 5% of the rated performance. Many Dell laptops have used a variety of questionable throttling schemes ever since.
sorry, we cannot do anything about it
That is why I shop elsewhere. No more Dell laptops for me.

Dell could fix this problem by limiting the 1165G7 to a maximum of 28W instead of 47W. This will prevent it from thermal throttling so it will not trigger the power limit throttling issues that you are having. You will end up with less peak performance and less overall performance than what you have now.

Dell's engineering team
Dell's engineers created the thermal throttling triggered, power limit throttling scheme. This is not new to Dell laptops. I do not see them changing anything to keep a handful of customers happy. Hopefully I am wrong.
 

thealgo

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The problem of overzealous power can be fixed in throttlestop simply by changing pl2 to say 20w or so (by default it is 51w on the inspiron 7306 and believe me, it will try and use all that power till temps get to 100c then throttle immediately too) :) after 40 seconds or so will use pl1 power The issue is that setting 18w for both pl1 and pl2 will waver the wattage between 15-18w on load even if temps are below 80c.. For light "gaming" its not nice to see a game performing "well" then for dell to limit wattage to 15w within few minutes reducing framerates - even though temps are under controll The request is merely to allow static pl1 at 18w or so in optimised mode
 
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