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Throttlestop PL 2 Yellow on Core

worldismine

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Hello All,

I'm new to undervolting, but I have been watching a lot of videos and reading posts. I currently can run Cinebench 20 without any limits and scores 3k+ consistently. However, when I open a game such as Borderlands 3, I see the limits turn yellow for a millisecond and I cannot seem to figure out why. I don't think it ever goes red? Should I be concerned? Please see log and view screenshots for settings.

Computer Specs:

Thank you in advance!
 

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unclewebb

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Should I be concerned?
I do not think so. Some of the limit reason indicators within the CPU can be hyper sensitive. An 8750H that can run the full 39.00 multiplier during an entire Cinebench R20 test without any sort of throttling is excellent. Your log file confirms that the PL2 indicator is being triggered at random intervals. No idea why this only flashes to yellow during games.

PL2 refers to the short term power limit which you have set to 90 Watts. Power consumption in the log file is only showing 30 Watts so there is no logical reason why PL2 is being triggered. ThrottleStop is reading this info directly from the CPU. It appears to be some random bug somewhere, likely at the CPU level.

Your temperatures are excellent so for a test, you could try setting both the long and short power limits to 256. This used to be some sort of magic number.

After that test, if PL2 is still randomly triggering, try checking the PP0 Power Limit and set that to 256 as well. If nothing works, go back to your original settings.

The good news is that this does not appear to be causing any significant drops in CPU performance. Just some random blips, perhaps as you say, only for a millisecond or two. Good work on the rest of your settings. I can tell you have been doing your homework and have watched a TS video or two. :)

I was going to ask you what laptop do you have. My first thought was, it must not be a Dell because it is not overheating or throttling. Your CPU-Z validation confirmed my suspicion. It is a big Clevo with proper cooling. It was specifically made to handle a 6 core 8750H.
 

worldismine

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Hi Unclewebb,

Thanks for the reply. Most of the posts that I read were from you answering questions. I searched multiple threads to get the "best settings" then ran Cinebench 20 to test. I started off with the BobofAllTrade Starter Kit with 125mv on cache and core, but I kept hitting the limit in Cinebench. I saw one of the post recommending a bigger undervolt like 250mv on core and I tried that. This worked like a charm and then I started playing with the cache. Increasing it past 130mv gets worse so I'm sticking to 130mv on cache.

Regarding the laptop, it's a Powerspec 1720 (Microcenter Brand) which is a rebranded Clevo PB70EF-G. It was easily getting 90C during tests, but I took the thing apart and repasted with Kryonaut. I also picked up a cooling pad which surprising did improve the cooling under heavy game load like Monster Hunter World: Iceborne (The snow really stresses out the CPU).

I will be setting the Long & Short Power Limit to 256 and try again. If that doesn't work, I will set the PP0 Powerlimt to 256 like you recommended. I'll let you know the results in a few.

Unclewebb,

I tried what you recommend and it looks like it's still behaving the same. I think it's a minor CPU glitch like you mentioned. I see the yellow warning, and I believe it never goes red. If I didn't look at the limit reasons, I couldn't even tell it was throttling during game play.

I will go ahead and set it back to the previous value. I'm not 100% sure what turbo time limit is and I believe my default was at 48. Should I change it back to 48 or leave it as 28? I'm not confident in leaving a setting long term if I don't understand what it's doing.
 

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unclewebb

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I did not really think that setting the power limits to 256 was going to solve your problem but it was the only thing I could think of. Performance looks great overall as well as consistent so I would not lose too much sleep over this very minor glitch. If you are curious, run a TS log file every month or two just to see if PL2 keeps randomly showing up in the log.

Intel recommends that the turbo time limit should be set to 28 seconds. The way Intel CPUs work is that they can boost up to the short power limit (90 Watts) for 28 seconds and then after that, if they are still under significant load, the power limit will switch to the long term power limit (60 Watts) for the rest of the time. If your core temperatures are OK and nothing else is interfering with these power limits, it will continue to run as high as 60 Watts indefinitely.

Your Cinebench screenshot shows that your CPU is fully loaded while maintaining the full 39.00 multiplier. Package power is at 59.0 Watts while the Package CPU temperature is only at 74°C. That confirms that your cooling solution is working great and is quite capable of handling a 60 Watt or greater CPU. Razer enforces the 45 Watt Intel TDP limit on some of their laptops that use the 8750H. This prevents ThrottleStop from letting the CPU go any higher than 45 Watts long term.

You could safely bump your long term turbo power limit up from 60 Watts to 70 Watts. Not really necessary considering your games are only reaching 30 Watts but you have lots of temperature headroom. Allowing the CPU some more Watts if it ever needs them will not hurt anything. You could also leave your power limits at 60 / 90 and bump up the turbo time limit which would allow your CPU to run at the higher 90 Watt limit for a longer period of time before being limited to 60 Watts.

Easiest thing to do is just leave everything as is. Your laptop is running great, it is not throttling or over heating. Go play some games. Most laptop owners would be envious of a performance oriented laptop that actually runs properly. There are way too many half baked products on the market.

The only recommendation is to avoid any future BIOS updates. Intel has released a microcode update that blocks CPU voltage control as well as turbo ratio limit adjustments. This has already been rolled out to many HP and Dell laptops. Your laptop would not be running nearly as well without the voltage tweaks that you are using on it.

a bigger undervolt like 250mv on core and I tried that. This worked like a charm
Thanks for confirming that a larger CPU core offset voltage really does work. Not sure why Intel XTU prevents a user from adjusting their CPU core and cache voltages independently.
 

Akatsuki_Neil

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hello,

I have the same issue with my laptop when i run cinebench. i got the score 2261 and i have the same cpu as OP. I have the razer blade 15 rtx 2060. I have cpu core and cache both undervolted to -125.

is this considered normal or am i asking too much from the machine ?
 

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unclewebb

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@Akatsuki_Neil - A properly running 8750H can score over 3000 in Cinebench R20. A score of 2261 is definitely not good. Razer likes to lock down some of their laptops so there might not be anything you can do about this.

A screenshot of a log file is OK but it would be a lot better if you attached the entire log file so I can scroll through it. In the ThrottleStop Options window turn on the Add Limit Reasons to Log File option.

You have lowered your turbo ratio limits. Did you do this because you have some heat issues? Slowing down your CPU will reduce your Cinebench scores.

Your power limit requests of 256 256 are likely being ignored. Some Razer laptops will set the long term turbo power limit to 45W internally and there is nothing you can do about it. When running Cinebench, are PL1 and PL2 lighting up in red? What is power consumption being reported at when this happens?
 

Akatsuki_Neil

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i did it initially to control heat but should i try setting it back to default ?

Yes pl1 and pl2 flashes during the cine bench and also edp other. Sometimes it fluctuates wither only pl1 and edp will flash or pl2 and edp or all three.
 

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unclewebb

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When PL1 or PL2 is the reason for throttling, EDP under the RING column usually lights up red at the exact same time. It is the power limit that is the problem.

The log file tells all. As soon as your CPU goes up to full load, it immediately starts throttling. The first reason is the PL2 power limit. Power consumption is being limited to 45W when this happens.

After about 35 seconds, the turbo time limit expires and the CPU switches from the short term turbo power limit to the long term turbo power limit. The log file shows PL1 and power consumption has dropped to 35W.

The 8750H has a TDP rating of 45W. Even though your temperatures are fantastic, Razer has decided to lower the turbo power limit below the TDP rating. This causes throttling and reduces maximum performance. That is why your Cinebench R20 score is so low.

ThrottleStop has an option that can help some laptops get over this restriction. In the FIVR window, try using the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature. Before checking this box, you need to download, unzip and copy the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder. You can download this driver from Mega.


After you install this driver, close and reopen the FIVR window. The Install button will be gone if you have installed this driver correctly. Check the Disable and Lock box and press OK.

Now you are ready to try some more testing. This trick only works on some laptops from some manufacturers.

Your temps look great so I would set the CPU back to its default turbo ratios. (41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39)
 
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Akatsuki_Neil

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unclewebb,

first of all thank you for the insights and time to respond to my query. i will try the steps that you provided.
have a good day and stay healthy
 

Akatsuki_Neil

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hello i have a question. My pkg power randomly jumps from 1.0 w to 14.o w. is there a way to fix this please ?
 

unclewebb

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@Akatsuki_Neil - An 8750H can consume 80W at full load. It does not take a lot of load to vary from 1W to 14W. That is normal. Look into reducing any background tasks to try to reduce this.
 

Akatsuki_Neil

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okay and also is there anyway to have a deeper c state level ? my blade is locked at c10 but only uses c2 and c3
 

n00Be

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Hi folks,
I don't mean to usurp this thread but I'm reading up on all this and many other posts about Throttlestop. GREAT program. I never been into this undervolting stuff and used XTU originally on my Acer Nitro 5 with i5-8300H (I realise it wasn't for my CPU). Had some issues and had to uninstall app, update my BIOS, and thankfully use Throttlestop to fix the issue I had with XTU.

Reading this thread I downloaded and ran cinebench (not sure if a 2069 is a good score for an i5-8300H...) but I've also noticed that in Throttlestop it will show yellow PL1 & PL2 reasons under CORE. THey appear to show up at random - like at the very start (startup) or I notice them at the end when shutting down. More constant is the yellow EDP Other under the RING column. That is always there and I can clear it and it comes right back. Interesting that when I clear these reasons and run Cinebench, the PL1/2 yellow warnings do not appear. The EDP Other shows up only at the very end under RING.

I'm starting to look more into Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits - some very helpful info in this thread. Thanks.

PS - I'm also somebody who has noticed a yellow BD Prochot reason show up randomly under CORE , yet temps never got anywhere near throttle limits nor was the PROCHOT 95C alarm triggered. From what I've read its a common glitch so I'm disregarding and keeping BD Prochot enabled. Still, confusing for someone trying to get into this stuff :S
 

unclewebb

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@n00Be - BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT are two different things. BD PROCHOT allows outside throttling signals to reach your CPU and cause throttling. PROCHOT throttling signals are always temperature related and are generated inside your CPU. Using ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT will not prevent your CPU from throttling if it ever gets too hot.

EDP OTHER under the Ring column will always light up when one of the power limits triggers throttling. When you see PL1 or PL2 and EDP OTHER turn red at the exact same time, it is always the power limit, PL1 or PL2, that is causing the problem. I think EDP OTHER also lights up when THERMAL or BD PROCHOT lights up.

Best to run a ThrottleStop log file while testing. This allows you to keep a close eye on the CPU multiplier without having to watch for lights lighting up. Throttling can happen rapidly hundreds of times per second. The Limit Reasons are only sampled a couple of times a second. Red boxes are indicators of throttling in progress while the yellow boxes are just records of previous throttling. The throttling might be so slight that it does not significantly interfere with performance and is not really noticed. Some CPUs are kind of hyper sensitive and things will light up constantly in yellow. Be more concerned about things when the multi drops and things are glowing red continuously.

I like using Cinebench R20. Run it and keep an eye on the multiplier for any signs of throttling. With good cooling, you should be able to run this test at full speed.

Edit - Some of the 8th and 9th Gen CPUs are happy when the core is undervolted significantly more than the cache. I have heard that a ratio of 2:1 is OK. If the cache is OK at -100 mV then the core might still be stable at -200 mV. Cinebench is a great way to test this out.
 

n00Be

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@n00Be - BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT are two different things. BD PROCHOT allows outside throttling signals to reach your CPU and cause throttling. PROCHOT throttling signals are always temperature related and are generated inside your CPU. Using ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT will not prevent your CPU from throttling if it ever gets too hot.

EDP OTHER under the Ring column will always light up when one of the power limits triggers throttling. When you see PL1 or PL2 and EDP OTHER turn red at the exact same time, it is always the power limit, PL1 or PL2, that is causing the problem. I think EDP OTHER also lights up when THERMAL or BD PROCHOT lights up.

Best to run a ThrottleStop log file while testing. This allows you to keep a close eye on the CPU multiplier without having to watch for lights lighting up. Throttling can happen rapidly hundreds of times per second. The Limit Reasons are only sampled a couple of times a second. Red boxes are indicators of throttling in progress while the yellow boxes are just records of previous throttling. The throttling might be so slight that it does not significantly interfere with performance and is not really noticed. Some CPUs are kind of hyper sensitive and things will light up constantly in yellow. Be more concerned about things when the multi drops and things are glowing red continuously.

I like using Cinebench R20. Run it and keep an eye on the multiplier for any signs of throttling. With good cooling, you should be able to run this test at full speed.

Edit - Some of the 8th and 9th Gen CPUs are happy when the core is undervolted significantly more than the cache. I have heard that a ratio of 2:1 is OK. If the cache is OK at -100 mV then the core might still be stable at -200 mV. Cinebench is a great way to test this out.
Thank you for this. I will experiment offsetting the core & cache undervolts. Next thing on my list is the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits. I'm still getting my head around all the adjustable fields in Throttlestop. Little by little.

RE: log file - I ran one while running Cinebench 20. If I'm looking at it correctly I think its good. Basically from start to finish it read:
MULTI: 39.00
C0% 100.0
CKMOD 100.0
CHIPM 100.0
POWER 40.X-41.X

A little confusing because i'm not sure what "power" represents... my turbo boost and turbo boost short power max settings (default) are 45.000 W. PP0 Current Limit is 128.
When I look at FIVR control it shows Turbo Ratio Limits as 40 MAX (under cores 1-3 it shows 40, under core #4 it shows 39)
 

unclewebb

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not sure what "power" represents
Power is how much power your CPU is consuming. If your CPU is only consuming 40W or 41W, it is running under the 45W turbo power limit. If a CPU is running under the turbo power limit and it is not thermal throttling, then it has no reason to run at anything less than full speed including full turbo boost.

Intel CPUs continuously adjust their maximum speed based on how many cores are active. When 1 to 3 cores are active, your CPU can use the 40 multiplier. When all 4 cores are active, your CPU is forced to slow down a little and can only use the 39 multiplier. If the MULTI column in the log file is showing 39.00 while fully loaded running Cinebench R20, your CPU is running at its full potential. These CPUs do not support overclocking so that is as good as it gets. Trying to adjust the CPU core offset voltage further might make your CPU run a little cooler but you cannot increase performance from how your laptop is running right now.

It takes good cooling and lots of tweaking to get maximum performance out of similar laptops with 6 core CPUs like the 8750H and 9750H. If you have 50% more cores (4 vs 6) then you will also have 50% more power consumption. Some laptops with 6 core CPUs have power limits that are not adjustable so the CPU is forced to throttle and slow down so it does not exceed the default 45W turbo power limit.

Is it all starting to make sense? It took me a decade to write the program. Don't be surprised or feel bad if it takes you a few days or a week to learn the program. :toast:
 

n00Be

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Power is how much power your CPU is consuming. If your CPU is only consuming 40W or 41W, it is running under the 45W turbo power limit. If a CPU is running under the turbo power limit and it is not thermal throttling, then it has no reason to run at anything less than full speed including full turbo boost.
Hmmm. So if my turbo boost limits are 45W yet machine isn't climbing above 42w max, does that mean there IS throttling occurring? Or are my settings off somewhere?
The -.150 undervolt couldn't be pulling that much from the turbo boost right. Could the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option help? Am planning to test that route.


Is it all starting to make sense? It took me a decade to write the program. Don't be surprised or feel bad if it takes you a few days or a week to learn the program. :toast:
Starting to! XTU was cool to get into but it messed up my default settings. Throttlestop was overwhelming at fist but slowly starting to understand what each section does. One setting change at a time, test, etc. I actually like the info THrottlestop offers. Reminds me of data logging my car - being able to see what EVERY sensor is picking up is so insightful. And similar to a laptop, the PCM in my car can be so finicky; data interruptions midway through a log, false alarms (ever seen a knock sensor lol), even a faulty ground somewhere on the car can be a huge monkey wrench to troubleshoot).

Will start to watch that Power (Max Power) readout on THrottlestop. See if I can get it up to 45w max.
Thanks for all your help!
 

unclewebb

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my turbo boost limits are 45W yet machine isn't climbing above 42w max
That is a good thing. Your undervolt has reduced power consumption so your CPU can run at its full rated speed without any power limit throttling. For laptop owners, that is the holy grail.

Why do you want your CPU to consume more power and run hotter? Running at full speed while consuming less power is what dreams are made of.

At the moment, there is no reason to check the Disable and Lock option. You do not need this option. In ThrottleStop, only check options that you need. Many of the available options are for different CPUs or for different situations. You do not have to fix throttling problems if they do not exist on your laptop.
 

n00Be

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hey, again sorry to usurp or digress from OP... unclewebb what's you take on this:
when I first loaded INtel XTU on this laptop my default settings (at boot) for turbo and turbo short power max were 45.000 W (each). After several days playing with undervolts I opened up XTU and noticed that my turbo short power max (at boot) had changed to 56.250. If I tried to load the DEFAULT profile the short power max had been changed to 56.250. Intel forums support is not the greatest - was basically told "that's what you get for using XTU on a unsupported CPU! Uninstall XTU, reset BIOS, reinstall Windows 10" (and be happy). I read around in other forums and threads about similar experiences and there were a couple. Someone suggested that it could be a display glitch - that the actual default setting was in fact 45w but that XTU was simply incorrectly displaying a 56.250 figure.

Fast forward to THrottlestop. The first time I opened up (discovered!) TPL I wasn't surprised to see short power max showing 56.250. So I changed that value back to 45W.
ANY CHANCE Throttlestop was in fact set to 45 (despite reading 56.250) and by me changing the value to "45" I've inadvertently lowered it below default max???

Side question: what if I were to plug 56.250W back into the turbo boost short power max field??? Will the machine go beyond the 45W limit? (is that asking for a fire??)

That is a good thing. Your undervolt has reduced power consumption so your CPU can run at its full rated speed without any power limit throttling. For laptop owners, that is the holy grail.

Why do you want your CPU to consume more power and run hotter? Running at full speed while consuming less power is what dreams are made of.

At the moment, there is no reason to check the Disable and Lock option. You do not need this option. In ThrottleStop, only check options that you need. Many of the available options are for different CPUs or for different situations. You do not have to fix throttling problems if they do not exist on your laptop.
WORD :) Makes sense!

+ nevermidn the first ramble/question .
 

unclewebb

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Intel recommends that manufacturers set the short power limit 25% higher than the long turbo power limit. If long is 45W then 56.25W makes sense for the default short limit (45 + 25%).

When you first run ThrottleStop, if it does not find a previous ThrottleStop.INI config file, it will read the power limit values from the CPU and it will use whatever values the CPU was set to by the BIOS. ThrottleStop keeps things simple so it rounds off 56.25 to the nearest whole number, 56.

You can set these limits to whatever you like. Some of the 6 core CPUs have these limits set to 80W or 90W. If these are set to 45W or 56W, that is not going to hurt anything.

XTU does have some bad habits like showing you things that are not true. Glad to see you moved on. When resuming from hibernate or stand by, it is always a guessing game whether XTU has restored your settings properly or not. The only way to be sure is to use another app to check up on what XTU is really doing. ThrottleStop does not have that problem.

Will the machine go beyond the 45W limit?
Not while running Cinebench. You have already shown that your CPU can run at full speed in that benchmark without having to go beyond 45W. You can set your turbo power limits to 100 or 1000 and your CPU is still going to run Cinebench at just under 45W.

If you want to put a hurting on your CPU, try running Linpack Xtreme by @Regeneration


That should help get your power consumption well beyond 45W. It is a good stress testing tool. Keep the fire extinguisher handy.
 

n00Be

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Its funny how stress testing and benchmarking a computer is just like dyno racing for car guys... comparing RWHP figures and torque curves. It's often a different reality or result when they actually run it on the street or strip (your new tune could put down more max HP at the wheels but actually run slower in the quarter).

Thanks for the link after I'm a bit more educated (and get a laptop cooling pad) I may see what abuse this acer can take.

once again thanks for your help. I feel bad how much info you've shared in just a day. You could charge consulting fees. I almost want to seek advice from others (for easy Q's) considering the amount of time you've shared. CHeers
 

Super-Mario

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@unclewebb - Newbie to TPU here! I had the same issue as OP and ended up reading the entire thread. Thank you for making TS, it's the nectar of the gods from where I sit.

10 years - wow, just wow! Again, thank you!

Quick Q - Settings > BD PROCHOT - to disable it, I leave it unchecked, correct?

The guide here: ThrottleStop Guide, doesn't explicitly state to check/uncheck this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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unclewebb

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Time flies when you are having fun. It has been interesting to see how laptops and throttling schemes have progressed over time. Not easy creating a tool that supports Core 2 Duo to 10th Gen Core i and everything in between. ThrottleStop automatically changes what options are available depending on what CPU it detects.

To disable the BD PROCHOT signal path, leave that box unchecked.
 
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