Throttling on an i7 11800h

[sog182]

I'm getting some inconsistent readings/results when using throttlestop on my i7 11800H. (Legion 7i 3080)

I've been getting really high temps lately even though I have decreased FIVR, limits, & optimised throttlestop settings. I recently downloaded the new 9.4 verison which has seemed to improve my experience a bit underload, but I'm still getting power limited and I'm not sure why.

I've attached my settings, any guidance where I can improve them?

I've also edited my windows "Processor performance boost mode" to Efficient Enabled from Aggressive. This is supposed to decrease the amount of times the CPU turbos, but I haven't really seen any difference at all?

 

[unclewebb]

You have the MMIO PL1 power limit set to 45W. That means the MSR PL1 power limit that you have set to 75W will be ignored. The lowest power limit wins control of the CPU.

To fix this problem, it is best to check the MMIO Lock box. Intel CPUs do not need multiple sets of power limits.

In the Turbo Power Limits window, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box. Clearing this box tells ThrottleStop that you want ThrottleStop to monitor and maintain your MSR power limits.

Also check the Speed Shift box in the Turbo Power Limits Window.

Some laptops are locked internally to 45W. After you make those changes, if you are still being power limit throttled to 45W, there is nothing you can do about it.

Check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box in the FIVR window for both the CPU Core and the Cache. This tells ThrottleStop to maintain your voltages.

In the FIVR window, I think you need to check the Overclock box if you want to use the 43 multiplier when 8 cores are active. ThrottleStop shows that the default value for this setting is 42. To go higher, that is considered overclocking.

 

[sog182]

I never set the MMIO PL1 limit, it seems to change the setting itself, after I reopened TPL settings it was already at 60, not really sure what's going on there but I followed your steps.

After saving it, this is the new window. MMIO has reset to - and shows a lock?

You're right about the overclock box, I just decreased it to 42 when 8 cores are active, thanks for pointing it out.

With regards to FIVR "Unlock Adjustable Voltage" I essentially updated my version from 9.3 to 9.4 and it saved my settings from previous version without checking that box, possible bug?

 

[unclewebb]

possible bug?

Some users were not happy that the older TS versions changed things automatically. TS 9.4 makes fewer automatic changes. Some people are not happy with this change.

it seems to change the setting itself

If the MMIO PL1 value was previously changing, that means your computer is using this power limit to control your CPU. That is why I recommend that you Lock it. This prevents any changes or interference.

Try running a log file and see if you can go over 45W without any power limit throttling PL1 or PL2 showing up in the log file.

 

[sog182]

Would I ideally want to go over 45W in the first place? I understand the rational behind locking MMIO though, thanks for explaining that.

Another note even if it's not actually related to Throttlestop, would "Processor performance boost mode" be of any use then? If it's useful, have you thought about adding it to TS? I wasn't aware it was even a setting until pretty recently, and I've been using throttlestop/undervolting for years.

I'll run a log file and send the results here later on.

Reached 100 degrees, logs show a before and during gameplay.

 

[unclewebb]

Would I ideally want to go over 45W in the first place?

That is up to you. The reality is that 45W is not enough power to run an 11800H continuously at or near its full rated speed. If you increase the power limits so the CPU can run at full speed, most laptops have cooling systems that are inadequate so then you will run into thermal throttling issues. Flip a coin. Power limit throttling or thermal throttling.

The log file looks good. No power limit throttling and only a couple of times was there some very brief thermal throttling. Intel says that any peak core temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature". That is the default thermal throttling temperature for the vast majority of Intel CPUs. Some laptop manufacturers lower this a couple of degrees. Your laptop is set to 97°C by Lenovo instead of the full 100°C recommended by Intel.

If these kind of temperatures long term make you feel uncomfortable, set a lower PL1 power limit and also check the Clamp option. Instead of setting PL1 to 70W, lower this to 55W. This will give you a couple of more degrees of headroom. You can also go 50W or the Intel default, 45W. With ThrottleStop, you get to choose.

Processor performance boost mode

What is, "processor performance boost mode"? What setting controls this? Is this a Windows power plan setting or is this a setting within some Lenovo software? This might be what causes your MMIO power limits to wander around. Or at least they used to wander around until you used ThrottleStop to lock them down.

When the power limits are set appropriately, your CPU runs as fast as it possibly can while living on the knife's edge of overheating. There is no room to boost performance any more unless you can improve the cooling first. Some users like trying different thermal pastes. The factory paste job is not always that great.

 

[sog182]

I'll try and play around at 55W instead, just to see the difference and if it's worth the performance cost. I think I just have bad luck since the newer lenovo legion laptops usually have great cooling.

What does clamp do when ticked next to PL1, and should I decrease PL2 as well?

processor performance boost mode is a windows setting, you can unlock it with a CMD prompt or registry edit (see here).

I could definitely do some repasting, but then it gets into the headache of pump out effects with different thermal pastes

 

[unclewebb]

What does Clamp do

When you set a lower power limit like 55W, if you also select the Clamp option, the CPU will slow down as much as necessary to prevent it from going beyond 55W. Most laptops automatically have the Clamp option selected for PL1. Clamp helps ensure that this limit is enforced.

The purpose of the two power limits is so you can run the CPU at the higher PL2 power limit for a short period of time. More power allows the CPU to run at maximum speed and improves performance. Ideally you want the CPU to switch to the lower PL1 power limit before the CPU reaches the thermal throttling temperature. The PL1 power limit should be set to what your cooling system can handle for a long period of time. The PL2 power limit should be set to what your cooling system can handle for a short period of time.

The turbo time limit determines how long your CPU can run at full power before it switches to the long term PL1 power limit. Most laptops with 11800H processors have inadequate cooling. They will start to thermal throttle within a few seconds if you try to run them at 80W or beyond. Based on this, it does not make any sense to set the turbo time limit to 28 seconds. Thermal throttling will start long before the 28 second time limit is up. The Intel default of 28 seconds is too much time for many of their mobile CPUs. Set your turbo power limits and the turbo time limit to what your cooling system can handle. Maybe a 4 second turbo time limit might be more appropriate for your laptop.

The TEMP word showing up in the log file indicates thermal throttling. Some thermal throttling for a few seconds here and there is OK. The goal is to set power limits appropriately so the CPU avoids constant thermal throttling. If the log file continuously shows TEMP then performance is being reduced because the cooling system cannot keep up to the power that you are trying to run your CPU at. Either reduce your power limits or improve your cooling.

processor performance boost mode

The regedit discussion you posted recommends disabling boost mode. This slows the CPU down which of course makes it run cooler. Is that what you want? A slow CPU?

It is true that many games are more GPU dependent than CPU dependent. Some games will run perfectly fine at a slower CPU speed and any decrease in FPS will barely be noticed. This can help drop the CPU temp by 10°C or 15°C.

Instead of changing this Windows power plan setting, if you want to play around with a slower CPU speed, open the ThrottleStop Turbo Power Limits window, check the Speed Shift box and try lowering the Speed Shift Max value.

This setting allows me to run my 10th Gen desktop CPU at any speed I like. Not sure if this still works on an 11th Gen mobile CPU.

An even better idea would be to lower the FIVR - Turbo Ratio Limits. This allows you to fully control how much turbo boost your CPU uses. Setup two or more separate profiles in ThrottleStop with the CPU running at different speeds in each profile. Now use the ThrottleStop HotKeys feature in the Options window. This should allow you to use keyboard short cuts to switch ThrottleStop profiles and CPU speeds while in game. That way you can determine if you really need a 4200 MHz processor. Perhaps a 3500 MHz processor or a 3000 MHz processor might be good enough for some games. Those guys on reddit with Intel CPUs should learn how to use ThrottleStop. It is far more flexible compared to any Windows power plan setting.

If you want to use CTRL+ALT+1, CTRL+ALT+2, CTRL+ALT+3 and CTRL+ALT+4 to access the 4 ThrottleStop profiles, the HotKey Manager Window should look like this.

do some repasting

Finding the right paste for a laptop and applying it just right is not something I would recommend for anyone with even a mild case of OCD.
I know you really want to do it!

 

[sog182]

Thanks for your message.

I've done a bit of testing and I'm liking the temp a lot more. I settled on leaving it at PL1 60W clamp and decreasing turbo time to 6s.

In regards to disabling turbo, I'd never do it unless using the laptop on battery power (and I use the battery profile setting for that too, so it's pretty helpful). It was more the secondary discussion to be able to change the turbo profile, which is what "processor performance boost" allows.

Using hotkeys to change to a different profile isn't something I thought about, so that's a good idea!

One last thing, I'm having some bugs when using 9.4, whenever the laptop boots it auto starts throttle stop, however when I go to the FIVR screen the "Unlock adjustable voltage" is always unticked. I tick it and save, reboot and it's back to where it was before. Not sure why?

 

[unclewebb]

I'm having some bugs when using 9.4

How do you have this feature in the FIVR window setup?

If you want your voltages and settings saved for future use, you have to specifically tell ThrottleStop to save your settings. This is a useful safety feature so any voltage changes are not automatically saved until after you test that your new voltage settings are stable. Is the bottom option selected? The screenshot you posted in your first post shows that you have the top option selected. That might be why the Unlock adjustable voltage option is not being saved.

PL1 60W

That seems like a good setting for performance. People tend to worry too much about their CPU temperature. If Intel thought high temps were a problem, they would have lowered their standard 100°C thermal throttling temperature years ago.

processor performance boost

I found Processor Performance Boost Mode in my Windows power plan settings and did some testing. On my desktop 10850K, setting Processor Performance Boost Mode to Disabled (0) completely disabled Intel Turbo Boost. This is not a useful feature for me. All of the other Boost Mode settings allowed full turbo boost with a 1 thread or greater load.

Here is the Microsoft documentation for this setting.

Overview about power and performance tuning for the Windows Server

Overview about Processor Power Management (PPM) tuning for the Windows Server.

docs.microsoft.com

Processor performance boost mode
This parameter tuning only applies to Non-HWP systems.

That means the Processor performance boost mode setting is ignored when Intel Speed Shift Technology (HWP - hardware controlled P states) are enabled.

The reddit link you posted is for the Zephyrus G14. These laptops use Ryzen mobile processors. I would leave this setting alone when using any recent Intel mobile CPU.

Try using the Windows Power Saver power plan if you want less CPU performance when gaming.

Lowering the turbo ratio limits is still your best option.

 

[sog182]

Yeah looks like upgrading from 9.3 to 9.4 had a lot of settings left on default, which I didn't realise.

Interesting about the Processor performance boost mode, didn't know that it was mostly beneficial for AMD systems. I've gone and reset them to the default (aggressive).

Thanks for all your help!

 

[egy80]

Thanks for your message.

I've done a bit of testing and I'm liking the temp a lot more. I settled on leaving it at PL1 60W clamp and decreasing turbo time to 6s.

In regards to disabling turbo, I'd never do it unless using the laptop on battery power (and I use the battery profile setting for that too, so it's pretty helpful). It was more the secondary discussion to be able to change the turbo profile, which is what "processor performance boost" allows.

Using hotkeys to change to a different profile isn't something I thought about, so that's a good idea!

One last thing, I'm having some bugs when using 9.4, whenever the laptop boots it auto starts throttle stop, however when I go to the FIVR screen the "Unlock adjustable voltage" is always unticked. I tick it and save, reboot and it's back to where it was before.

hi bro pelase cn you send me screenshot ur throttlestop i have same cpu you have and i have realy problem with temp so pelase can you send screenshot with ur fivr and tpl pelase.

 

[sog182]

@egy80
Honestly repassting my CPU & GPU did the job. The thermal paste was dried out significantly so I used Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut to repaste. Do your research before you use other thermal pastes, as a lot of them are good for desktops but not laptops due to "pump out". Something like Kyronaut is useless on a laptop unless you want to repsate every 3 weeks.

I attached my revised TPL/FIVR anyway, which definitely does help keep spikes down. Lenovo did a shit job with the fan curve, where the fans kick in way too late.