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Time for a new build (Go big or go home)

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@John Naylor thanks so much... Some fantastic advice there so I'll take that into consideration and make some adjustments to the build.

Do you have any recommendations of fans which would be best for the coolers, I know you mentioned a couple but didn't see if you suggested they would work well.

I have skimmed it all just now, I'll read back when I am awake and see where we go.
 
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phill

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Cheers, what's the reason behind 2950x Vs 2990wx?

I must admit I have had a personal bad experience with Gskill and cold boot issues before. As such I tend to stay away from them, a personal reason I know but kind of lost faith in them.

WD Gold is a great shout. Defo open to those, I use WD Blacks right now. Back when they were the best and I love the drives and how WD are so I like that suggestion.

@phill thanks, after spending sometime looking at benchmarks the i9 7960x/7980xe as the benches don't seem much better on the 9xxx series,

Although I am sure 9XXX series offers other benefits? Anyone care to enlighten why i9 9 series may be better than i9 7 series?

@phill I only when 32GB of ram as I'm currently on 16 and barely use much more than 60/70% so I could go 64 but I don't see it being used.

The newer 99xx CPUs can't be de-lidded, there was a vid somewhere of one of the top overclockers doing it, basically doing it killed the CPU.. Not something that's really recommended! :) Aside from them charging more for the 99xx series (just gauging results from Scan.co.uk) I can't see the importance of buying one. The only reason it's slightly faster also, is down to the slight increase in clock speeds.. If you're overclocking, it appears to be a waste of money to me.. Plus that and the de-lidding issue, personally it's hard for me to recommend..

I'm currently the same, but thought since you wanted overkill and I mentioned possibly you using VM's, 64Gb might have been more used but completely understand where you're going with the ram :)
 
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They can indeed be delidded.

 

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HEDT, 10 core & above, isn't for high end gaming anymore.
I agree completely.
Yes, I have a 10 core gaming rig, but I got it used for such a low price that it was impossible to pass up.
My two i7-8700Ks have provided fantastic gaming results for much less money and the 9700K is probably fantastic on a whole new level. But the i9-7900X games well.

I think that Zen-II could possibly deliver some Intel smackdown for an attractive price point, but we can't really know this until it releases and is tested by reviewers that we trust.
I'm willing to wait it out and see what happens then.

The newer 99xx CPUs can't be de-lidded, Apologises I mean the X299 CPUs not the 1151 models :)

My X299 series i9-7900X is de-lidded and happy as a clam. I did the de-lid myself with a kit from Rockit Cool that I borrowed from another TPU member.
(it wasn't soldered, they used paste on it)
TimeSpy benchmark score added to underscore de-lidded maximum temps while running benches.

1080s.JPG
 
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I edited and numbered your post so I could address appropriately without too much clutter.

1. Ok... so now we doing a gaming build only... so that means LGA 2066 isn't where we wanna go. 28 threads isn't going to do anything for you, You won't see more than 4 in use 97% of the time.

2. 1000D won't take 140mm wide rads in front

3. Two separate loops is not something Iid recommend recommended ... for the CPU with it's small surface area... you'll want to move coolant thru there at 1.25 gpm or better .... on the GFX cards, you are going to have HUGE full cover water blocks with large surface areas so you will want to use half that flow .... so the easy way is run a single loop up to the GFX cards, then split the loop into 2 separate parallel flow stream and recombine right after the GFX card blocks.... allows you to increase flow as needed without generating excess backpressure by only having half the flow thru GPUs )or 1/4 the pressure) .

Keep this i mind... Your two GFX cards are 320 watts each ... total 620 watts... think about that ... 1 loop for your 200 watt CPU and 1 loop for your 700 watt GPUs. Leaves one overdesigned and one underdesigned.

4. Again lets look at 820 watts of heat load

https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1457426-radiator-size-estimator.html
Open the Aquacool speadsheet

Read the instructions... recognize that all surfaces on the components are giving off heat ... all MoBo surfaces, block surfaces, tubing , radiator shrouds, etc will account for a good part of the heat load... also note that the CPU is never at 100% when the GFX cards are.... so combined this will account for 40% of you heat load, leaving 60% for the radiator. So...

60% x 820 = 492 watts or 246 per rad.... now look at the spreadsheet .... With just fans in pull, a 45mm thick 480 will provide 245 watts of cooling at just 1250 rpm ... since ya like to "Go big", use a 60mm thick one for 251 watts ... 303 if you go push pull.

As per last post .... make sure ya have 1.5 intakes or each exhaust....but each 140mm = 1.33 120's

Front .... I would start with 8 fans in pull (4 per rad) ... as you can see in the spreadsheet, you don't need push pull. And you certainly don't need a top rad. Can always add the Push later if ya think ya need it ...Here's how I'd run my loop....

Two Radiators =>Separate Discharges => Inlet Y Fitting => Dual Pump => MoBo Mono Block => CPU => Y Fitting => Separate Feeds to each GPU => Y Fitting => Separate feeds to each Rad

This way 1) You have the symmetry you like.... 2) you reduce backpressure and flow thru the rads and GFX card WBs allowing greater cooling.

5 Not recommended. Again, rad fans ALWAYS blow in, no exceptions ... ever. Put 8 fans on rad blowing out and 8 blowing in ? Well since the ones with inlet filters in front will have flow reduced by the filters, you already have negative pressure.... now put (3) 140s on top and (2) in rear blowing out and you have very negative poressure. Your air flow thru the box will be in excess that the entire volume of the case will be pushed out 2 or more times per second. Those giant wide open grilles on back of case are part of your cooling system. And do you want to cool yor stuff with cool ambient air or pre-heated inside case air ? With coolant at 33C, you want say 23 ambient air cooling ya stuff ? ... or ya want interior 28C air cooling ya stuff which means only 50% of the cooling (33-23 vs 33-28) ? If ya think that is bad for interior components, go thru your parts manuals and find one component which component is going to be bothered by 28C ?

6. Not sure how ya came to conclusion that I did not allocated only one radiators worth of fans,..... each hub handles 11 fans.

Radiator 1 Pull Fans (4) + Radiator 2 Pull Fans (4) = 8 fans out of 11 ports filled (I would install this at time of build)
Radiator 2 Push Fans (4) + Radiator 2 Push Fans (4) = 8 fans out of 11 ports filled (I'd save this if later ya think you need it.)

That way you can put a lil more rpm on the pull fans if ya want to .... or even have 1 set of fans kick in at light loads and not add the push fans until temps reach a certain point.

7. Unfortunately, forum advice from yesteryear continues to be parroted when the reasoning behind those old recommendations no longer applies. Back in the day, rads were 30 fpi and the closeness of the fins was harder to push air between. Today rads are typically 8 - 14 fpi and there is no need for medium (M) and high (H) static pressure fans on today's rads. An AIO with high fpi and cheap aluminum rad will need extreme speed fans to make up for the aforementioned shortcomings. A properly designed all copper loop, designed for Delta T of 10C (all those spreadsheets are based upon Delta T of 10C) ... AIOs are like 20C or more. As you can see in the spreadsheet, 2 x 480 with just pull fans is more than enough for your load.

8. No, absolutely not... again, no exceptions... rad fans ALWAYS blow in unless you have a poorly designed case. Look at Corsair AIO instructions.

https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia/sys_master/productcontent/49-000175_rev_AB_H100i_QSG_web.pdf

read page 3, Window 1

"For best cooling performance , we recommend mounting the fans as air intakes into your PC case". You have to forget what you think you learned in 8th grade earth science. Yes hot air rises but not with a fan over it blowing the other way .... If ya worried about cooling GFX card and CPU, why in the world would you want to reduce the performance of your cooling system by preheatting the air before it goes thru the rads ?

10. Two issues here:

a) All things being equal (design, rpm, etc) , a 140mm fan blows 33% more air than a 120 mm.

b. This is kinda like a Dad telling his son that Santa Claus isn't real. I hate to be "that guy" but the specs you read on the manufacturer web pages and on the Box are blatant lies. Lets look at WC guru martin on the subject

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress....w-specs-are-poor-measures-of-fan-performance/

Here we see two fans:

Cougar Vortex PWM
Max Airflow = 70.5CFM
Static Pressure = 2.2 mm H20

Gentle Typhoon AP-15
Max Airflow = 58CFM
Static Pressure = .08inwg = 2.03mm H20

Which one's better ... isn't 70.5 bigger than 58 and 2.2 bigger than 2.03. That would be true if those numbers were real. But, what Cougar is saying is ..

At 0.00 Static pressure, our fan pushes 70 cfm, at 2.2mm static pressure, our fan pushes 0 cfm ... both conditions will never exist.

What we see once installed is ...

The Cougar fan produces 34 cfm at 0.040 in of static pressure (42% of the advertised flow)
The GT fan produces 38 cfm at 0.047 in of static pressure (67% of the advertised flow)

11. Internals

MoBo / CPU 1x Asus ROG Rampage VI Extreme Intel i9 9940x 14 Core, 28 Thread - Again LGA 2066 has no business in a gaming only box.... most reviewers don't even do gaming tests. The question is not whether it is good or bad in gaming but whether it's better than something that costs less than 1/2 or 1/3 the $1400 cost of that CPU ..... If ya want the very best, most cores , most expensive gaming CPU , get the $570 9900k

hhttps://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7_9700K/images/relative-performance-games-2560-1440.png

Personally, Id spend $150 less and get the 9700k for a gaming box.... likely going down after holidays to mid 300s

As for Mobos, you could "go big" with the MSI Z390 MEG Godlike for like $580 ... but I don't see what I'm getting for $300 over the MSI MEG Z390 ACE to make me part with that amount of money ... 2nd ALC 1220 ? ... 2nd Killer E2500 Gigabit LAN controller ?

4x Corsair - Vengeance RGB Pro 8 GB DDR4-3200 Memory (32GB Total)

a) I have yet to see a game improve with more than 16GB
b) 4 sticks will likely reduce your OC as compared to 2 due toi the extra load on memory controller.

1x Samsung 970 Evo 2TB M.2' - If ya got the cash, why not ?

2x Western Digital - Gold 10 TB 3.5" 7200RPM - I have 30 years of business records and AutoCAD drawings, all my business and personal tax records, photos, games and backups of 5 networked PCs on a single on 2 TB. We have not purchased a HD in 8 years. But if you need the space, get what ya need. If it was me, id use an NAS in RAID 5/10 .... Be aware though:

a) Large capacity drives have a much higher failure rate.
b) SSHDs are 50% faster in gaming than WD Blacks
c) Seagate SSHDs (0.44%) have hair better failure rate then WD Blacks (0.45%)
d) Both have 5 year warrantees
e) Seagate tops out a 2 TB, WD has a 4 TB

12. Some games benefit from lower timings, some games benefit from more speed.... most times however, they don't test with twin GFX cards where often RAM can make a difference .... with just the 1 cards it is bottlenecked by GFX. However, with your 1440p monitor, that's not going to be the case. The sweet spot is DDR4-3000 CAS 15 / DDR4-3200 CAS 16 ... after that proces rise significantly, ... if ya can find better for a good price, grab it.

13. If you use benchmarks as a yardstick, then the more expensive SSD can be justified. If you use application benchmarks , using scripts, faster SSDs can be justified. If you use productivity as the yardstick, SSDs have no real advantage outside specialized apps like animation, video editing and rendering. Boot time of an SSD is 15.6 seconds versus 16.5 for an SSHD. Users are not in a position to take advantage of that. If a game takes even 10 seconds longer to load, by the time I "do what i gotta do" to switch ME from work mode to gaming mode, either way, puter is waiting for me to unplug headset from charging cable, pull out dongle from storage cubby, close cubby, insert dongle, load discord, load web sites ... and that doesn't even include bio break, snackies and stuff. So while there may be some sense of personal satisfaction, no one every typed a extra legal brief, reached a further waypoint in game whatever because they had a faster SSD.... best advice.... buy the best ya can till what ya paying causes discomfort.

14. RAID 0 hard drives are a complete waste of time, money and effort. Every 3 years we build a box with RAID 0 and RAID 1 arrays as a test bed. Every time we have broken the arrays as they returned 0 benefit by every measure imaginable. Even for SSDs

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-benchmark,3485-13.html
https://hardforum.com/threads/raid-...desktop-application-game-performance.1001325/
https://tweakers.net/reviews/515/9/raid-0-hype-or-blessing-conclusions.html

Most accurate statement I ever read on RAID 0 was that those who pursued this route were ""buying into the hype and nothing more".


Hi Guys..

Replying on mobile, so if I miss bits I apologize.

RE 1.
How about a I9 9900k, 5ghz clock speed gives me the high single core clock, good price for the CPU, onl? £550 for a chip, seems like a good chip from the reviews, appreciate the gains over the i7 8700k is minimal but there is some.

2 to 10
I love your cooling advice, the loop design sounds amazing and with the Y split and Join after the GPU seems perfect, so much so I will be copying your recommendation and installing it into the new rig.

@John Naylor any recommendations on rads and pumps? EK throughout? I've heard fantastic things about them in the past.

Internal.

CPU, discussed above,

RAM, yeah I can drop to 2 sticks, before was when I was looking at quad channel so 4 sticks.


SSD, chopping £1k off the cost of the CPU I may as well go for the Pro.

HDD, I never considered the higher failure rates, you're right. Thanks for reminding me. I could look at maybe a few SSDs and lower the space. 20TB does seem a bit overkill. Maybe look at four 2TB SSDs (not in Raid)

Thanks for the advice, would love some recommendations on parts for the water-cooling or the fans.
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
What do you think about my test guys ? they are to low right... ?
This thread has nothing to do with your scores. Please create your own thread to get the best help.



As to Hellfire... I wish you good luck. This thread is like hearding cats and to be frank, I don't have the time right now to continue going in circles. Post up whatever you get though. :)
 
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This is what I was thinking about the water loop, if I've made any mistakes, Please let me know, I was thinking I still needed good flow so I picked a 12/16mm piping?

Welcome thoughts on it. This is working on the suggestions of @John Naylor

 

phill

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Benchmark Scores I've actually never benched it!! Too busy with WCG and FAH and not gaming! :( :( Not OC'd it!! :(
The only thing about the loop is this, does it have a drain?? :)
 
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The only thing about the loop is this, does it have a drain?? :)

Lol, I uploaded V2.... I did put a ball valve on it in V3

I have two Ball valves at the bottom of each rad, please let me know if it's the wrong place
 
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I would get 2x 2080 TIs instead of the 64s

surprisingly, Nvidias higher end GPU's arent SUPER ridiculous prices like normal (or as bad as normal). The 2070's are going for $500 , the 2080's for $750'ish & both go up. At that price (as cheap as i am) id even consider buying a new GPU during its actual release (instead of buying them like i do, 3 years after launch). 2x 2070's, or 2080 would cost under $1500.the 2080ti's are super pricey for me, i think they are over $1000 even for the "low end" models. but id definitely go Nvidia over AMD if i was going "big or home"
 
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Do those Y splitters cause issues with the flow? Would it be better to have a larger diameter for the area behind splitter (right side of the chart)? Don't know just curious here.
 
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Good question Vario, I am unsure as well so would be open to suggestions from people on it.
 

phill

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Lol, I uploaded V2.... I did put a ball valve on it in V3

I have two Ball valves at the bottom of each rad, please let me know if it's the wrong place

As long as the valves are as low as possible so when you drain it, it drains on it's own, I'm sure you'll be fine :)


This is what I did with the SR-2 build I have :)
 
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Yup, the radiators will be the lowest point on the build, If not it is easily adjustable
 
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surprisingly, Nvidias higher end GPU's arent SUPER ridiculous prices like normal (or as bad as normal). The 2070's are going for $500 , the 2080's for $750'ish & both go up. At that price (as cheap as i am) id even consider buying a new GPU during its actual release (instead of buying them like i do, 3 years after launch). 2x 2070's, or 2080 would cost under $1500.the 2080ti's are super pricey for me, i think they are over $1000 even for the "low end" models. but id definitely go Nvidia over AMD if i was going "big or home"
Yeah i know that but our friend here doesn't give a shit about money.
 
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You can check out Pauls build in a 1000D, there's eight videos in the series for it.

 
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Ins
So it's time for a new PC build for me, I'd appreciate feedback on the below, I know it may be considered Overkill but if I can afford it and have the ability to do it, why not.

PARTS

Case:
Corsair Obsidian 1000D
Obsidian 1000D 8x 120mm Fan Tray (Additional for top mount)

Fans:
Front: 16 x Corsair SP120 Air Series fans (for 2x 480MM Radiators in push/pull configuration)
Top: 8x Corsair SP120 Air Series fans
Rear: 2x Corsair SP120 Air Series fans
TOTAL: 26 Corsair SP120 Air Series fans @ 62.74CFM

Cooling:
2x Byski Waterblocks for Sapphire Nitro+ Vega 64
1x EK Supremacy TR4
2x Thermaltake Pacific CL480 Radiators
2x Thermaltake Pacific PT40-D5 w/Silent Kit Reservoir/Pump Combo (220ml Res)
Misc Piping/fittings as required 13mm. (Thermaltake)

Internals
1x Asus ROG Zenith Extreme
1x AMD Threadripper 2990WX (Maybe Zen2 if released by build time)
4x 8GB Corsair DDR4 Vengeance RGB PRO Black, PC4-28800 (3600)
1x Samsung 970 Evo 2TB M.2
2x Seagate BarraCude Pro 10TB (7200RPM)
2x Sapphire Vega 64 Nitro +
1x Seasonic PRIME Ultra 1300w PSU

I already have the dual cards and the PSU, but the rest of my rig is becoming dated and I’ll put my old XFX 850w PSU in and my old R9 280X and give it to my boy as his first gaming rig.

It’s going to be two loops, 1x 480mm Rad for a CPU loop and 1x 480mm Rad for a dual GPU loop.
fans for the rads will be in push/pull on the front of the case, mounted next to each other.

With this number of fans, I guess I would need to look into a fan controller, any recommendations?


Thoughts on the rig?[/QUO

Instead of 2 480MM Radiators I would go with the Alphacool 420 Eisbear get the expansion cables for $12 and hook them up to one of your GPUs and get the Aplhacool Eisblock for the other GPU and combine it with a 420 radiator 140mm fans are quieter than 120s and can run silent and give you proper cooling performance. Thge 2990WX is more of a test product than the 2950X which to me makes more sense.
 
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So slight hiccup,

firstly I have revamped my entire build and have two designs, Started picking up universal parts, but ran into a problem with the cooling

Intel Choice
ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XI EXTREME
INTEL 9900K

AMD Choice (if Zen2 leaks are correct/close)
ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO
AMD RYZEN 9 3850X

Obviously the choices above could change with new chipsets etc. But they're the planned ones to give you an idea of what I am after.

Parts I already have
SEASONIC 1300w PRIME ULTRA(Titanium) PSU
2x SAPPHIRE VEGA 64 NITRO+
2x BYKSKI GPU BLOCKS
CORSAIR 1000D CASE

Unfortunately EKWB don't make GPU blocks for my cards and don't plan on it so I went with the only ones I can find, Bykski, however I have heard pretty positive things about them.

Rest of the build
CORSAIR PLATINUM 32GB (2x 16) 3200 (15-15-15-36)
SAMSUNG 970 EVO 2TB (M.2 NVME)
2x SEAGATE BARRACUDA PRO (6TB HDD)

Cooling
EKWB MONOBLOCK
2x BYKSKI GPU Blocks
2x EKWB COOLSTREAM XE480mm x 60mm
EKWB REVO DUAL D5 PUMP
EKWB 250mm RES
MISC FITTINGS (EKWB)
EKWB TUBING (12/16mm)
10x 120mm FANS (TBC WHICH ONES)
3x 140mm FANS (TBC WHICH ONES)

However I've noticed a problem, the GPU blocks are copper based, they're the only ones I can find that fit my cards SKU, but all of EKWB monoblocks for my boards are nickel, However as I am sure you know, we can't mix metals as it will cause corrosion.

So I have two options,
1 - No Moboblock and just a CPU block, (BOO)
2 - Split the loops into two loops, one GPU Loop and one CPU only Loop (I could get an extra radiator (420 x 45mm) and keep two 480's for the GPU's

Suggestions on my best option? I mean Monoblock would obviously be better but a second loop isn't straight forward but would allow some cool customisation with different loop colours
 

phill

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Keyboard Razer something or other....
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Benchmark Scores I've actually never benched it!! Too busy with WCG and FAH and not gaming! :( :( Not OC'd it!! :(
You'd be fine with a single 480 rad for two GPUs I would say and keeping them separate would be even better so it wouldn't matter as you wouldn't mix any materials as you'd have two separate loops, something I'd always suggest regardless with CPU and GPU.

Personally I'm not a fan of the looks of a monoblock but they can be helpful and cut down on the tubing and fittings you'd need/use.

I used to run 2 X5650's and 2 7970's in a single 480 loop, it got a little warm when everything was stressed and overclocked but temps weren't that high in comparison to air and the overclocks I had on them :) I believe 2 Vega's should be fine with the single 480 rad :)
 
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Unfortunately reading John Naylor's previous post a single 480 for both cards isn't enough. A 420*60mm only provides 250watts of cooling. Two radiators for both cards is definitely needed.

From what I've been reading, nickel and copper can be mixed, just not anything with aluminium.
 

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From what I've been reading, nickel and copper can be mixed

In fact i dont know why you said in your previous post they cant be mixed or where you hear it;)
 

phill

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System Name Not so complete or overkill - There are others!! Just no room to put! :D
Processor Ryzen Threadripper 3970X
Motherboard Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha
Cooling Lots!! Dual GTX 560 rads with D5 pumps for each rad. One rad for each component
Memory Viper Steel 4 x 16GB DDR4 3600MHz not sure on the timings... Probably still at 2667!! :(
Video Card(s) Asus Strix 3090 with front and rear active full cover water blocks
Storage I'm bound to forget something here - 250GB OS, 2 x 1TB NVME, 2 x 1TB SSD, 4TB SSD, 2 x 8TB HD etc...
Display(s) 3 x Dell 27" S2721DGFA @ 7680 x 1440P @ 144Hz or 165Hz - working on it!!
Case The big Thermaltake that looks like a Case Mods
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA 1600W T2
Mouse Corsair thingy
Keyboard Razer something or other....
VR HMD No headset yet
Software Windows 11 OS... Not a fan!!
Benchmark Scores I've actually never benched it!! Too busy with WCG and FAH and not gaming! :( :( Not OC'd it!! :(
Unfortunately reading John Naylor's previous post a single 480 for both cards isn't enough. A 420*60mm only provides 250watts of cooling. Two radiators for both cards is definitely needed.

From what I've been reading, nickel and copper can be mixed, just not anything with aluminium.

Your kidding me right?? Take a look -

http://hardwarelabs.com/nemesis/gtr/gtr-560/

1546211771563.png


I'm pretty sure, you'll be fine :)
 
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