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Time to upgrade....and to what?

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#1
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Need to upgrade. Where should I start? Hoping this didn't post twice. Sorry if it did.
 
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#2
gpu first 900 series is starting to show its age in newer titles and then bump ram up to 16gb this size is now the recommended, last a i7 4790k...I'm assuming that you will stay on Haswell platform but that's what I would do
 
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#3
gpu first 900 series is starting to show its age in newer titles and then bump ram up to 16gb this size is now the recommended, last a i7 4790k...I'm assuming that you will stay on Haswell platform but that's what I would do
I disagree. I wouldn't invest a single penny in an old platform like that. Buying DDR3 and a 4y old processor that already is running in to problems with certain games like battlefield is a waste of money.

That's what I would buy as your first upgrade:
- https://www.alternate.be/MSI/X470-Gaming-Plus-socket-AM4-moederbord/html/product/1441619?
- https://www.alternate.be/AMD/Ryzen-...t)-socket-AM4-processor/html/product/1333130?
- https://www.alternate.be/HyperX/16-GB-DDR4-3200-Kit-werkgeheugen/html/product/1278977?

Why the MSI motherboard? Lots of great feutures, great hardware compatability and future proof. You will be able to upgrade to Ryzen 7nm in the future ( after bios upgrade ). If you buy a new Intel platform now, there is no more upgrade path for the future and you'll be forced to buy a new motherboard all over again in a couple of years if you want to upgrade the cpu.

Why the Ryzen 1800x and not the 2700x? It's only 9% faster in desktop applications and only 3-5% faster in games on 1080p. So it's nor worth 75-100 euro's more.

Why DDR4 3200Mhz and not somethign slower? Ryzen is dependent of high-speed memory. Slower memory = slower cpu performance.

The next upgrade I would pick AMD Navi ( Q1 or Q2 2019 ). It will provide performance between GTX 1080 and GTX 1080TI for a lower price and lower power consumption. Basicly a Vega 64 OC as it should have been a year ago.
And in 2020, you can upgrade to Ryzen 3xxx, because by then, Intel will have something to compete with Ryzen 3xxx and prices will have dropped compared to 2019.

That what I would do with a low budget. Because buying old hardware now will just set you back longer.
 
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#4
my buddy has the 4770K paired with a GTX 1080ti and he plays BFV full everything at 1440P no problem.
 
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#5
I recently heard of random issues with recent Unity based games possibly causing random errors due to CPU instruction sets. There is no confirmation yet, just the word of a game dev.

TBH if you are going to cheap out with such old hardware, just go with Ryzen.
 
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#6
Why the Ryzen 1800x and not the 2700x? It's only 9% faster in desktop applications and only 3-5% faster in games on 1080p. So it's not worth 75-100 euro's more.
Definitely go for 2600X in place of 1800X at the same price. First-gen Ryzen is just not worth it any more.
 

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#7
Gosh people, Devil’s Canyon is not THAT old. As we consistently see, CPU and motherboard are viable for long periods.

Leave the CPU. I use one in my secondary system, and rarely is it a HUGE impact. Most of the time it is just fine.

What you should do is upgrade the GPU. Something like a 1060 or 1070 would be Even better. The 20x0 series I would advise against. Likely they would starve for instructions from the 4690k.

The other thing you need more than a larger SSD is more RAM. That’s the other place I would put any upgrade money.
 

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#8
1. GPU.

And far down the list is RAM, and then SSD and at the bottom CPU, unless you find a really good deal on a (preferebly unlocked) i7 or even an equivalent Xeon.
 
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#9
I disagree. I wouldn't invest a single penny in an old platform like that. Buying DDR3 and a 4y old processor that already is running in to problems with certain games like battlefield is a waste of money.
I disagree - in part.

First, waspman3 did nobody, including himself, any favors by failing to include his budget. :(

With that in mind I agree, in part, that throwing a bunch of money in this 4 year old system is probably not a wise use of money, unless the plan is to upgrade the entire platform, starting with a new motherboard, CPU and RAM.

But if the budget is limited and just looking to get the most bang for your upgrade money, because that current MSI motherboard support 4 RAM sticks and only 2 are currently in use, I agree with enxo218 and recommend another 2 x 4GB to bump you up to 16GB total.
 
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#10
I have to second a GPU upgrade, My 980 was showing its age recently before my upgrade. Albeit I was running at 1440p, but still I think the rest of your system looks great. Perhaps a 1070 or 1080 would be great for you.
 

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#11
Im half and half. I agree that this platform is not worth spending a huge amount of money on. but if you cant afford to upgrade to a new platform. then i would try and improve what little i can with the current system.


if you check out some of the results in this video you can see that even a 2600k still has the cojones to be a half decent level performer when its overclocked. your 4690k shouldnt be any 'weaker' in that perspective. If you know how to overclock or are willing to learn you can have a very decent performer for a bit of money thrown at it.

Try to pick up a decent enthusiast motherboard from ebay, get 16GBs of DDR3 too while youre at it-- LOADS of people selling good DDR3 at silly prices, Even i have some spare.
Upgrade the SSD if you want. SSDs are going cheap at the moment so its easy to get a 500GB for a few games or 1TB even as SSDs can carry over onto a new system. Put all your games on it.

Its best to buy now because at the moment Samsung have a lot of excess stock due to wrongly predicting some sort of boom in the market and SSDs flying off the shelves which didnt happen... so prices for SSDs have never been cheaper and prices will go back up as Samsung are backing down on production to regulate the market and keep prices artificially inflated.

Get a decent CPU cooler. even a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 should do you good Freezer 33 eSports ONE made by Arctic is also pretty good but a little more pricey. should keep your CPU pretty cool with an OC.

Maybe upgrade the the GPU further down the line but providing you stick to a decent budget and the pre-owned hardware is good. you might be able to get another year or two out of it depending on how you use your PC.

Upgrade the GPU further on down the line to something like a 1060 or 1070 depending what res you game at or if youre a serious gamer etc etc.

There is hope but it only depends how much money youre happy to spend keeping it rolling. even 2600k can still kick ass the mid-range pack as the video shows.
 

eidairaman1

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#12
UserBenchmarks: Game 46%, Desk 66%, Work 40%
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K - 80.9%
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RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 C9 2x4GB - 53.8%
MBD: MSI Z97 PC Mate(MS-7850)

Need to upgrade. Where should I start? Hoping this didn't post twice. Sorry if it did.
Upgrade the GPU to a R9 290/ GTX 1060 at least, add 2 more ram modules to what you have for 16GB or get 4x8GB modules.

Gosh people, Devil’s Canyon is not THAT old. As we consistently see, CPU and motherboard are viable for long periods.

Leave the CPU. I use one in my secondary system, and rarely is it a HUGE impact. Most of the time it is just fine.

What you should do is upgrade the GPU. Something like a 1060 or 1070 would be Even better. The 20x0 series I would advise against. Likely they would starve for instructions from the 4690k.

The other thing you need more than a larger SSD is more RAM. That’s the other place I would put any upgrade money.
This I agree with, I only see the GPU and ram, the SSD could be jumped to 256 or 512.

Haswell and PD really need no upgrades
 
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#13
Im half and half. I agree that this platform is not worth spending a huge amount of money on.
A better video card and a larger SSD will carry over on a new build ;)
Only money spent on more RAM could be seen as wasteful.
 
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FreedomEclipse

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#14
A better video card and a larger SSD will carry over on a new build ;)
Only money spent on more RAM could be seen a wasteful.

Depends how cheap the ram is
 
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#15
Upgrade the GPU to a R9 290/ GTX 1060 at least, add 2 more ram modules to what you have for 16GB or get 4x8GB modules.
my buddy has the 4770K paired with a GTX 1080ti and he plays BFV full everything at 1440P no problem.
Haswell and PD really need no upgrades
Gonna agree with these two

Your CPU is over 4x the power as the consoles CPU and in most situations won't hold you back enough performance wise to justify blowing tons of money (DDR4 ram, new copy of windows, new motherboard, and new CPU is gonna run you at least $500-600 total).

Often hear the argument "don't invest in a platform 4 years old" but then again the counter argument is "where 5 years into this generation of consoles/engines and game requirements have been stagnant the last two years, running very high settings on your platform is easily possible"

Your platform is good enough to where I wouldn't do a complete rebuild. Any modern mid tier or high video card in your system will run 1080/1440p no problems. Even if for some reason you did 4k the CPU difference at that resolution isn't that bad.
 
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#16
UserBenchmarks: Game 46%, Desk 66%, Work 40%
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K - 80.9%
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Need to upgrade. Where should I start? Hoping this didn't post twice. Sorry if it did.
What are you doing with it or want to do ,add percentages , could help like gaming 60% 20% home use 10% office.

I wish I could pull this back but honestly I think that's wrong so I apologize ,i read better.
 
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#17
There’s no need to brush Devil’s Canyon off like that. Depending on your luck, it’s a hot-running beast, but it’s still one hell of a beast. If you want to push that 4690K to its absolute limits, cooling is going to be a walk in the park with common mounting between LGA1156/5/0/1.

What needs to be said has been said already. Put your money in an up-to-date GPU and step it up to 16GB. As long as you have 4 DIMM slots you’ll only need to buy another 2 x 4GB kit; unlike with a newer build, I wouldn’t leave room for 32GB down the line as this is DDR3 we’re speaking of, after all. 16GB will be more than plenty.

That is, unless you’re in the sub-15L ITX business and are seriously struggling with keeping a 4790K subdued with air. But I don’t think you suffer from such constraints.
 
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#18
UserBenchmarks: Game 46%, Desk 66%, Work 40%
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GPU: Nvidia GTX 960 - 43.9%
SSD: SanDisk SSD Plus 120GB - 46.4%
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Need to upgrade. Where should I start? Hoping this didn't post twice. Sorry if it did.
So put pc in shop to get some upgrades and not seeing a noticeable change to be honest. Maybe offline ever so slight but gaming def not. I did up my Ram from 8gb to 16gb. Also changed out SSD card and went with 1 Tb instead of the 120gb. Was told Video card is ok. Is there not much more I can do with this Motherboard?

I'm playing a 10 year old game in Company of Heroes 2 and still have to turn settings down. Is that because of the slower internet or because of my system?
 
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#19
Just a 1Tb SSD, maybe a new GPU
 
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#20
Sell all internals, wait for Zen 2 or if you are impatient buy zen+ minimum 8/16 core for longevity.
 

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Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
#21
So put pc in shop to get some upgrades and not seeing a noticeable change to be honest. Maybe offline ever so slight but gaming def not. I did up my Ram from 8gb to 16gb. Also changed out SSD card and went with 1 Tb instead of the 120gb. Was told Video card is ok. Is there not much more I can do with this Motherboard?

I'm playing a 10 year old game in Company of Heroes 2 and still have to turn settings down. Is that because of the slower internet or because of my system?
Video card is mediocre at best, upgrade it.
 
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#22
UserBenchmarks: Game 46%, Desk 66%, Work 40%
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K - 80.9%
GPU: Nvidia GTX 960 - 43.9%
SSD: SanDisk SSD Plus 120GB - 46.4%
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 2TB - 109.8%
RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 C9 2x4GB - 53.8%
MBD: MSI Z97 PC Mate(MS-7850)
ADDED: Upgrades included 16 GB and 1 TB SSD
1. This extremely difficult to answer without a budget. Also, a decription of what you do with it (apps / games you run and how often) is helpful but as your subsequent comments are all about gaming, I'll focus on that. I don't understand the "waste to invest in this platform" comments as upgrdainga GFX card or storage is not a "platform investment".

2. You said "So put pc in shop to get some upgrades and not seeing a noticeable change to be honest. Maybe offline ever so slight but gaming def not. " Frankly the fascination with SSDs is misplaced. Great, the SSDs are 3 times faster ... problem is it only has a real usr impact on stuff you almost never do. They have no impact on productivity, and rarely have an impact on the actual "user experience" because THE USER is typically the bottleneck in any system.

a) If you copy / paste 500 GB of files, the SSD will do the job much faster ... but how does that impact you after the day you build your PC ? If one want to copy 500 GB of files, I initiate the transfer and then go back to perusing my forums. So what if it gets done in a fraction of the time, no impact on the user cause he / she us doing something else. No Impact !

b) SSDs will have an impact in certain applications like video editing, animation and rendering, but that's not you AFAIK.

c) Boot time on this box is 15.6 secs off SSD, 16.5 off the SSHD and 21.2 off the HD ... will that impact your life ? Do you sit and watch the hourglass or ratating circle or whatever is on screen ... or are you adjusting your chair, returning calls, clearing off desk whatever while it boots ?

d) After finishing work, and switching to game mode, after launching game, I may do any number of things such as, unplugging charger cable for headphones, taking out the dongle from left eat hidey hole, closing the cover, placing on head, launching discord, grabbing a snack, taking a bio, launching web pages for game. I don't care if it takes 12 or 20 seconds to load cause Im not ready to play for 30 seconds or more. The MMO, I play primarily takes the exact same amount of time off SSD, SSHD or HD cause the server handshaking is the bottlneck

In short investing in a SSD for gaming fps is a waste of time and money.

3. Your main issue is your GFX card ... the 1 TB SSD is $170 .... a GFX card will cost ya much more... but as you said, the SSD did squat for gaming performance. The 960 was a weak card in comparison with other . A 1060 will be about twice as fast as your 960... the 6 GB model is 6% faster than the 3 GB model but the VRAM is not the factor here; the 6 GB has 10% more shaders and that is what provides the speed boost. In the past, Id recommend the 3GB because of the $100 price difference... now it's often $10

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Armor/images/perfrel_1920_1080.png

6GB 1060 $250 - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137053
On ebay buying a 1060s is as low as $120
On ebay there's 960s as low as $45

Buying new and selling the old on ebay should cost you about $200 and you'd see an immediate doubling of fps. If ya can manage an extra $100, you'd get about 2.6 times the fps as you have now.

4. The 4969k / Z97 combo is just fine... Im running Z87 / 4770k, my son is running a 2600k ... no issue with 970 SLI or 1070 cards. While generation to generation GFX card performance has increased as much a s50%, with CPU generations, it's been at best 5%. Have run all my games by setting affinity from 8 cores on down and never saw a significant impact till i was running on only 3 cores.

5. The RAM is a good move, the only one I'd do after getting new GFX.
 
Joined
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Location
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System Name Intel Quad Core
Processor The 2.1GHz Turion 64 X2 TL-62
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Cooling Heat sync
Memory 4 GB Corsair Vengence Ram
Video Card(s) EVGA GEFORCE GTX 960
Storage 2TB 7200RPM
Case NZXT MID TOWER CASE
Audio Device(s) NOT SURE
Power Supply 750 W
Mouse Using a Roccat Gaming mouse
Keyboard CM STORM BLUE LIT Gaming keyboard
Software Microsoft Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Not sure
#23
What about overclocking the Video card I have or will that buy me any time til I can get the funds together?

1. This extremely difficult to answer without a budget. Also, a decription of what you do with it (apps / games you run and how often) is helpful but as your subsequent comments are all about gaming, I'll focus on that. I don't understand the "waste to invest in this platform" comments as upgrdainga GFX card or storage is not a "platform investment".

2. You said "So put pc in shop to get some upgrades and not seeing a noticeable change to be honest. Maybe offline ever so slight but gaming def not. " Frankly the fascination with SSDs is misplaced. Great, the SSDs are 3 times faster ... problem is it only has a real usr impact on stuff you almost never do. They have no impact on productivity, and rarely have an impact on the actual "user experience" because THE USER is typically the bottleneck in any system.

a) If you copy / paste 500 GB of files, the SSD will do the job much faster ... but how does that impact you after the day you build your PC ? If one want to copy 500 GB of files, I initiate the transfer and then go back to perusing my forums. So what if it gets done in a fraction of the time, no impact on the user cause he / she us doing something else. No Impact !

b) SSDs will have an impact in certain applications like video editing, animation and rendering, but that's not you AFAIK.

c) Boot time on this box is 15.6 secs off SSD, 16.5 off the SSHD and 21.2 off the HD ... will that impact your life ? Do you sit and watch the hourglass or ratating circle or whatever is on screen ... or are you adjusting your chair, returning calls, clearing off desk whatever while it boots ?

d) After finishing work, and switching to game mode, after launching game, I may do any number of things such as, unplugging charger cable for headphones, taking out the dongle from left eat hidey hole, closing the cover, placing on head, launching discord, grabbing a snack, taking a bio, launching web pages for game. I don't care if it takes 12 or 20 seconds to load cause Im not ready to play for 30 seconds or more. The MMO, I play primarily takes the exact same amount of time off SSD, SSHD or HD cause the server handshaking is the bottlneck

In short investing in a SSD for gaming fps is a waste of time and money.

3. Your main issue is your GFX card ... the 1 TB SSD is $170 .... a GFX card will cost ya much more... but as you said, the SSD did squat for gaming performance. The 960 was a weak card in comparison with other . A 1060 will be about twice as fast as your 960... the 6 GB model is 6% faster than the 3 GB model but the VRAM is not the factor here; the 6 GB has 10% more shaders and that is what provides the speed boost. In the past, Id recommend the 3GB because of the $100 price difference... now it's often $10

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Armor/images/perfrel_1920_1080.png

6GB 1060 $250 - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137053
On ebay buying a 1060s is as low as $120
On ebay there's 960s as low as $45

Buying new and selling the old on ebay should cost you about $200 and you'd see an immediate doubling of fps. If ya can manage an extra $100, you'd get about 2.6 times the fps as you have now.

4. The 4969k / Z97 combo is just fine... Im running Z87 / 4770k, my son is running a 2600k ... no issue with 970 SLI or 1070 cards. While generation to generation GFX card performance has increased as much a s50%, with CPU generations, it's been at best 5%. Have run all my games by setting affinity from 8 cores on down and never saw a significant impact till i was running on only 3 cores.

5. The RAM is a good move, the only one I'd do after getting new GFX.
Would you buy a Vid card as mentioned above from Ebay? Also with my system do I have to stay with the 128 bit or can I jump to the 256 bit?
 
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System Name SloMo
Processor G4560
Motherboard MSi H110-PRO-D
Cooling LC-CC-95 @ Arctic Cooling fan
Memory 2X Crucial DDR4 2400 4GB
Video Card(s) Integrated HD 610
Storage WD 500 GB + Seagate 500 GB + Toshiba 3 TB
Display(s) Lenovo D221
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) Manhattan Flex BT Headphones, Encore P-801 stereo speakers
Power Supply Corsair CX450M
Mouse microsoft office mouse
Keyboard Modecom mc-800m
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores gorstak @ hwbot.org
#24
uhm, what exactly is the issue you're having that makes you think you need to upgrade? Your pc doesn't have to win in benches to be solid.
 
Joined
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System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i9 9900k
Motherboard ASRock Z390 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) LG 32GK850G-B 1440p 32" AMVA Panel G-Sync 144hz Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Transluscent Keycaps
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSext/TS: FSext 10770:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/17394505 TS 8140:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/5371816
#25
I recently heard of random issues with recent Unity based games possibly causing random errors due to CPU instruction sets. There is no confirmation yet, just the word of a game dev.
You're thinking of AVX. Everything but X58 and below supports that.
 
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