To distill or not distill what say ye?

[A Computer Guy]

Well interesting.

Personally I do tend to flush my systems with distilled prior to changing the fluid and never encountered any corrosion from doing so. I suppose I will cancel my next experiment going 100% distilled at my next change out coming up soon in May but I wonder if I can get away with just using a 50/50 distilled/EK-Cryofuel(premix) and save some cash not having to buy another 1L bottle. My current experiment will end with running EK Cryofuel for 2yrs without changeout.

For all the distilled only users describe your setup and experiences over the years. What makes your setup work? Do you encounter any issues? Do you still change out your distilled water and how often?

For those who use additives please describe what specific products you use.

Also open question: When it comes to disposal, what are the most environmentally friendly products or additives?

 

[GerKNG]

i don't have a lot of experience but my old loop just had distilled water in it with nothing else and other than cosmetic "issues" (the copper block got matte and a bit rough) but it all performed and worked as expected for the ~4 years i used it in my main system.
i only topped the reservoir after a year to compensate for the permeation, i took everything apart flushed it properly and sold everything with no returns or complaints.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

50/50 extended life engine coolant is designed for water loops, including those with mixed metals. Thats what I've used with more permanent loops.

 

[Solaris17]

i don't have a lot of experience but my old loop just had distilled water in it with nothing else and other than cosmetic "issues" (the copper block got matte and a bit rough) but it all performed and worked as expected for the ~4 years i used it in my main system.
i only topped the reservoir after a year to compensate for the permeation, i took everything apart flushed it properly and sold everything with no returns or complaints.

Same, on assembly flushed with vinegar, then flushed with distilled to clean it out, then finally ran distilled for years and never had any issues. Loop was fine the day I disassembled it.

 

[Veseleil]

G12+ automotive coolant would solve all of the issues mentioned.

 

[Shrek]

50/50 extended life engine coolant is designed for water loops, including those with mixed metals. Thats what I've used with more permanent loops.

I'd go weaker as anti-freeze has a low specific heat.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I'd go weaker as anti-freeze has a low specific heat.

Sure more water, less glycol. Seems ok to me. Everyone has different preferences. But I didn't intend to use a chiller, it was more for less bio-mass growths and mixing metals. Probably 10 years back or more now.

What is low specific heat?
Most pre-mix solution is probably good to -45f (-42c). I've seen some mixes on the refractometer has high as -30f (-34c) with a 50/50.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Distilled PH9 + Propylene Glycol (Professional Grade) is what I use and I have 0 issues (9:1 ratio)

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Distilled PH9 + Propylene Glycol (Professional Grade) is what I use and I have 0 issues (9:1 ratio)

why? Ethylene transfers heat better. A little more toxic for drinking purposes, but hopefully nobody is drinking it....

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

why? Ethylene transfers heat better. A little more toxic for drinking purposes, but hopefully nobody is drinking it....

The Propylene acts as an inhibitant and lube for the pump motors (same as what you get from Automotive coolants, they taste the same as well.. accidental sip)

 

[68Olds]

I use tap water and Swftech HydrX (ethylene glycol) in my loops, probably about a 10:1 ratio. The water in my area is very soft so I've never been worried about tap water mineral fallout from high conductivity. You can't get HydrX anymore, so I'll probably switch to automotive antifreeze once my stash runs out.

 

[ir_cow]

I run distilled only. It's non-conductive too. I'm lazy and usually only drain it once a year. I found galvanic corrosion happens when a brand lies about the block, rad or fitting. I've come across brass fittings that is just coated brass. Radiators that are not even copper when its advertised as. I don't see Distilled water being a big problem, its the fact that after you get all the parts for a loop, its no longer just brass and copper, but a mixture of a bunch of different metals.

der8auer has hard evidence that distilled water is a "bad" to use alone if the block isn't pure. The problem comes down to when the company lies about the block. I've had EKWB GPU blocks get galvanic corrosion in months, others never. Just depends on where its sourced from and how much they lie about the metals used.

 

[Ruru]

Distilled in my CPU-GPU loop.

 

[ty_ger]

I use proper coolant with corrosion inhibitors, because I have experience and read.
I tried the distilled water thing a couple decades ago and it was a disaster.
"Disaster": plating problems, ugly, stuff growing, and blocks plugging up. Not really a disaster, but a hassle easily avoided.
You live and you learn.
I can't believe this is still a discussion. We already had the big EK nickel thing and it's like no one read or learned. Everyone's takewaway was that the science should be ignored and EK bad?! Cause EK bad, the science which we believe for every similar thing is wrong when it comes to water cooling? Dumb. Stubborn.

I've had this debate before with stubborn people who act like coolant is too expensive. Their blocks looked like crap after a year and mine looked brand new after 10. Their explanation: they got a bad block, and I am using fake pictures. Some people are so stubborn.

Same, on assembly flushed with vinegar, then flushed with distilled to clean it out, then finally ran distilled for years and never had any issues. Loop was fine the day I disassembled it.

You did the vinegar thing too? A double-punch of bad.

Why do people make it so complicated? Just assemble it, put proper coolant in it, and then change the coolant every 1 or 2 years. Easy! You don't need to flush it. You don't need to etch it with vinegar. I mean, you didn't do anything terrible, but you did just ruin all the surface finish for no reason. It's a waste of time and it just makes your brand-new parts look bad for no reason.

 

[xtreemchaos]

Ive been using distilled for donkeys of years without any problems, my 2080 still looks brand new so do's my 3080 both with factory fitted water blocks.

 

[ty_ger]

I suppose it goes like this:
When people were calling out EK for having 'bad nickel plating', when EK turned it on them by showing with science that it was the user's fault, the user rejected science in order to be right. I don't suppose that it matters to anyone that the science was right and that it caused PT to go out of business, as long as the user felt that their opinion was justified. And because of that, we still have holdouts who continue to pass on bad advice.
I suppose Der8auer knows this and that is why he is trying to get ahead of it before releasing their product and facing similar unwarranted product criticism.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I use proper coolant with corrosion inhibitors, because I have experience and read.

I think a lot of what people can get away with is very much based on the quality of available water sources but chemistry is chemistry.

I tried the distilled water thing a couple decades ago and it was a disaster.
"Disaster": plating problems, ugly, stuff growing, and blocks plugging up. Not really a disaster, but a hassle easily avoided.

Even with EK Cryofuel I managed to bork my NR200P water cooling setup by accidently introducing contamination during a quick drain, fix, and fill so I could fix a fan header I forgot to plug in. I ended up with some quick cloudy growth of something before it stopped and lingered for a few months. The build had a difficulty level and inconvenience factor that I decided to just give up on it, disassemble and clean all the parts, and abandon the loop.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

So...let's do some chemistry.

Water is H2O...right? Well, no. Water is a collection primarily of H2O, but it also has ions. Namely, H+ and OH- ions. Note that this is H+ + OH- = H2O neutral charge. In distilled water you lose all of the minerals which might form salts and the like, and those H+ ions are so light as to get the heck out of dodge if another H is anywhere nearby...so you wind up with the base form of distilled water being slightly acidic.

All of that is basic chemistry, right? Then you've got acid+ metal forming a metal oxide and a free hydrogen. In the case of copper mostly Cu2O, a black oxide. Of course, that is until the oxide reaches any sort of balance with dissolution in the liquid and its solubility. For CU2O that's functionally insoluble...which is why you hear so many anecdotal stories about people running good systems for years without a bunch of build-up on pure water.


So...what's the issue? One of two things.
1) Fouling layers
2) Metallic ion exchange

The fouling layer is easiest to understand. Basically, as fluids flow over surfaces they slow down the closer you get to them (and the faster you go). Your ceiling fan needs cleaned, despite spinning around, because the edge of the blade has a fouling layer while cutting through the air, and when the air slows down so much it dumps dust. Same thing in a liquid loop...and where does garbage accumulate? That's right, the fins that have a huge surface area for heat transfer which slows down the flow of the liquid.

Metallic ion exchange is fun. Not normal human fun, but science fun.
Metal reactivity chart
What does this mean? Well, have you ever seen those videos on youtube where somebody takes an aluminum can, sands off of the plastic outer layer, then takes a dropper of sodium hydroxide in aqueous solution and lets it rapidly eat through the aluminum to form a plastic balloon of soda? Yes, that is the highly reactive sodium (NaOH) rapidly converting the aluminum into aluminum salts and then repeating until the aluminum is in solution. The same thing happens with much less reactive metals...like copper. Kinda cool. What's worse is when hydrogen is more reactive than your metal...like say Nickel and Hydrogen. Almost like Nickel plating is absolutely beautiful and shiny...but the reason that you cannot touch it with your grubby fingers is a minimal liquid coating almost immediately corrodes the surface. Of course, if said oxide layer is constantly under water it's easy to not have an issue until you clean things out and that beautiful nickel plated block is tarnished by green-black NiO. Combine Nickel with anything more reactive, and the distilled water in your system suddenly corroded your metal.

Fun thing though, look at how we deal with this. Distilled water gets an alcohol, which is a hydrocarbon ending in a hydroxide group, and the balance of H+ and OH- changes. Less free ions, due to having multiple ionic bits trying to balance out, and you've got much less oxidation. Everybody here has already gotten onto the program with this because it's been known for centuries. If you want to research, look up buffer solutions. They're solutions where you have an acidic or basic water solution, which remains at that relative PH through the addition of salts. These salts exchange ions with the water, keeping a balance. Alcohols don't work the exact same way, but for a big dumb explanation it's close enough.



Lessons learned, Nickel plating is not a solution to corrosion. Building every component out of copper or aluminum would mean functionally no losses over years of exposure. People are stupid, because we want to combine metals and think that the chemistry is simple. The morale of the story is use the same material through the entire process, or include some antifreeze to stabilize the solution. Our German source here is not telling us the full truth because he's got a product to sell. That doesn't make him wrong, but it does mean a creative interpretation of reality to try and sell you his solution to your problems needs to be addressed and weighed. In this case, weighed against the bunk he's touting which anecdotally is the same silliness that people have been spouting for years because trying to explain chemistry is an uphill battle.

 

[Konomi]

I personally say if you're even investing in good quality parts for your loop to begin with, don't half-ass it with the coolant and get something good. Sure - distilled water may work fine, but you can put off maintaining the loop and get on with life for longer periods if you actually bother in the beginning.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

I personally say if you're even investing in good quality parts for your loop to begin with, don't half-ass it with the coolant and get something good. Sure - distilled water may work fine, but you can put off maintaining the loop and get on with life for longer periods if you actually bother in the beginning.

premixes are expensive, not that I would be half assing about buying a proper coolant mix, but if you inspect the composition of the coolants itself you'll eventually notice a pattern, it can all be made at home perfectly fine with you buying the materials yourself.

Like I said above, I have been with that formula since I started out watercooling during my K6-2 Days, and been washing my rads with Vinegar before I assemble the loop and nothing has ever gone wrong since that day..

 

[Fokker]

I match materials as much as possible, prep parts with PrimoChill Sysprep, and run clear Cryofuel. After 2 years in the last loop, zero growth or fouling. Blocks look brand new as was the pump/reservoir.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

So...let's do some chemistry.

Water is H2O...right? Well, no. Water is a collection primarily of H2O, but it also has ions. Namely, H+ and OH- ions. Note that this is H+ + OH- = H2O neutral charge. In distilled water you lose all of the minerals which might form salts and the like, and those H+ ions are so light as to get the heck out of dodge if another H is anywhere nearby...so you wind up with the base form of distilled water being slightly acidic.

All of that is basic chemistry, right? Then you've got acid+ metal forming a metal oxide and a free hydrogen. In the case of copper mostly Cu2O, a black oxide. Of course, that is until the oxide reaches any sort of balance with dissolution in the liquid and its solubility. For CU2O that's functionally insoluble...which is why you hear so many anecdotal stories about people running good systems for years without a bunch of build-up on pure water.


So...what's the issue? One of two things.
1) Fouling layers
2) Metallic ion exchange

The fouling layer is easiest to understand. Basically, as fluids flow over surfaces they slow down the closer you get to them (and the faster you go). Your ceiling fan needs cleaned, despite spinning around, because the edge of the blade has a fouling layer while cutting through the air, and when the air slows down so much it dumps dust. Same thing in a liquid loop...and where does garbage accumulate? That's right, the fins that have a huge surface area for heat transfer which slows down the flow of the liquid.

Metallic ion exchange is fun. Not normal human fun, but science fun.
Metal reactivity chart
What does this mean? Well, have you ever seen those videos on youtube where somebody takes an aluminum can, sands off of the plastic outer layer, then takes a dropper of sodium hydroxide in aqueous solution and lets it rapidly eat through the aluminum to form a plastic balloon of soda? Yes, that is the highly reactive sodium (NaOH) rapidly converting the aluminum into aluminum salts and then repeating until the aluminum is in solution. The same thing happens with much less reactive metals...like copper. Kinda cool. What's worse is when hydrogen is more reactive than your metal...like say Nickel and Hydrogen. Almost like Nickel plating is absolutely beautiful and shiny...but the reason that you cannot touch it with your grubby fingers is a minimal liquid coating almost immediately corrodes the surface. Of course, if said oxide layer is constantly under water it's easy to not have an issue until you clean things out and that beautiful nickel plated block is tarnished by green-black NiO. Combine Nickel with anything more reactive, and the distilled water in your system suddenly corroded your metal.

Fun thing though, look at how we deal with this. Distilled water gets an alcohol, which is a hydrocarbon ending in a hydroxide group, and the balance of H+ and OH- changes. Less free ions, due to having multiple ionic bits trying to balance out, and you've got much less oxidation. Everybody here has already gotten onto the program with this because it's been known for centuries. If you want to research, look up buffer solutions. They're solutions where you have an acidic or basic water solution, which remains at that relative PH through the addition of salts. These salts exchange ions with the water, keeping a balance. Alcohols don't work the exact same way, but for a big dumb explanation it's close enough.



Lessons learned, Nickel plating is not a solution to corrosion. Building every component out of copper or aluminum would mean functionally no losses over years of exposure. People are stupid, because we want to combine metals and think that the chemistry is simple. The morale of the story is use the same material through the entire process, or include some antifreeze to stabilize the solution. Our German source here is not telling us the full truth because he's got a product to sell. That doesn't make him wrong, but it does mean a creative interpretation of reality to try and sell you his solution to your problems needs to be addressed and weighed. In this case, weighed against the bunk he's touting which anecdotally is the same silliness that people have been spouting for years because trying to explain chemistry is an uphill battle.

I wonder if it's causes by the anodizing then because it is done by electricity & ions shifts. In the video he shows a block example that where the nickel doesn't get into the extremely fine fins of the block fully, which leaves some copper exposed.

I had an expandable older coolermaster Eisberg that had only distilled water in it & was a full pure copper setup (it wasn't cheap) Never had an issue with copper oxidizing in it. 2 years later nothing happened.

 

[bonehead123]

Well, back in my loopy days, I used the waste water runoff that was discharged from the local Nuker plant...but I drank it 1st, peed it out, then mixed it 50/50 with distilled water, neveranottaproblemo.... and the best part is that when I drained my loops, I collected the fluid & sold it back to the plant for some major bank, and they said it kept the reactors from overheating for about a year





/s...



hahahaha, made ya look, didn't I

 

[db87]

Im currently using Arctic Freezer 3 AIO's on both systems. But I have been using custom loops from 2006 until 2024. Always used distilled water with a little automotive anti freeze/coolant (Glycol based)

I have seen many issues popping up on the internet with fancy color liquids. And that made me do maintenance: but every time it was 99,9% clean. I became more and more sloppy with maintenance. Flushing and fresh liquid every 3~4 years. 18 years free of issues when it comes down to the cleanliness of the water system.

 

[ir_cow]

I will always call out companies for having bad platting. EK GTX 10 and RTX 20 series was horrible. Within a month the platting came off. CPU block for EK is still good 8 years later. Plating fully intact with distilled water.

Alphacool block GPU replacement, no problems. So for those saying im blaming a company for poor plating instead of following science Is missing the point.