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TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

Joined
Jun 22, 2006
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System Name Beaver's Build
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI) - X570
Cooling Corsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM Liquid
Memory G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory - 16-19-19-39
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition
Storage Inland 1TB NVMe M.2 (Phison E12) / Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe 512G / WD Black 6TB - 256M cache
Display(s) Alienware AW3225QF 32" 4K 240 Hz OLED
Case Fractal Design Design Define R6 USB-C
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 USB Audio Interface
Power Supply SuperFlower LEADEX TITANIUM 1600W
Mouse Razer DeathAdder V2
Keyboard Razer Cynosa V2 (Membrane)
Software Microsoft Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores 3dmark = https://www.3dmark.com/spy/32087054 Cinebench R15 = 4038 Cinebench R20 = 9210
Here's my completed collection (probably done with collecting)

Starting at Top Left: ATI Rage Fury MAXX, XGI Volari Duo V8 Ultra,

3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP, 3dfx Voodoo5 6000, S3 GammaChrome S18 Pro

SiS Xabre 600, nVidia GeForce FX 5800 Ultra (ES), Intel Larrabee Prototype

Gravis UltraSound MAX, 3dfx Voodoo1, ATI Radeon HD 2900 XTX (A12 Prototype)

 
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Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
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Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Semi rare/rare card does not make it a good card. Just desirable due to lack of availability. :)
It reminds me of Evil Kyro cards... The first gen that is, the one with terrible driver support. And/or Savage 2000. Never had Savage card (other than Savage4 Pro, but that's a whole other story), but I do own Kyro... From what I heard, even experienced from other folks (who asked me if I'd be willing to trade, or sell it), it is quite a rare & appealing model - despite having awful gaming performance due to its lousy drivers.

In fact, some of the games experienced a total "meltdown" with Kyro, such as NFS Hot Pursuit 2 for example. The colors were all messed up, and textures totally wrong. Quite psychedelic environment, very similar to "drugs" powerup in Carmageddon II, in case any of you here remember?
 
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Sorry, no GFX card(s) is worth that much, no matter how rare it is. Everything get's rare after a period of time & automatically becomes antique after 100 years.
 
Joined
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Location
Spencerport NY
System Name Master
Processor Pair of Xeon X5675's @ 4.3
Motherboard SR-2 Classified
Memory 12 GB of Corsair Dominator GT's @ 2000 7-7-7-21
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX680
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 750
Sorry, no GFX card(s) is worth that much, no matter how rare it is. Everything get's rare after a period of time & automatically becomes antique after 100 years.
Worth is in the eyes of the beholder.
 

Keullo-e

S.T.A.R.S.
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Memory 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury @ DDR4-3466
Video Card(s) PowerColor RX 6700 XT Fighter OC/UV
Storage ~4TB SSD + 6TB HDD
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VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores It runs Crysis remastered at 4K
Looks cool, the ugly just the sticker
But in that era ATI radeon cards using that
I liked the stickers Sapphire used back then. :D

I still need a PSU for that, the Antec on my sig should be arrive next week.. after testing it with my Socket A system, I think I'll put that with my AM2NF3-VSTA setup with A64 X2 6000+ and 4GB DDR4-800..
 
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System Name Adison "Open Space" 19
Processor Intel Pentium II, 350MHz
Motherboard Chaintech 6BTM, Slot 1
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Memory 1x 64MB, PC100
Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
Storage BTC BCD-40XH, Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series, EX6.4 GB
Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Working on "Lassie", the system which got back (home) to me :) I honestly don't know what I'm doing, and/or why I even bother with another S478 build, but either way... Figured I'd share some of the progress I've done so far:

The entire case has been stripped apart, cleaned from dust & then re-assembled, adding additional (missing) standoffs for the motherboard.


Followed by the repairs on Radeon 9600Pro. This one turned out to be super annoying, even... The original fan was seized up, to the point where conventional methods wouldn't work. But then I realized that even swapping the heatsinks is out of the question, because of the PCB component layout around the GPU, it's as if they designed this thing like that on purpose, so that you couldn't use any other heatsink. Sooo, what I ended up doing is removing the rotor (fan itself) assembly alone, leaving the motor base & heatsink original.


And now I'm re-assembling everything back... Will report back once I got more pics/updates to share :toast:
 
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Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
Storage BTC BCD-40XH, Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series, EX6.4 GB
Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Still working on Lassie the Pentium...




Think I've created a monster...!! :eek:
 
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Video Card(s) Colorful RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB
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Case COUGAR MX440 Mesh RGB
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Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Razer Deathadder Essential
Keyboard Cougar Attack2 Cherry MX Black
Software Windows 10 Pro 22H1 x64
Nice rig trekkie4, is that ASUS P4P800 motherboard? The CPU must be 800MHz FSB Northwood, and coupled with 9600Pro its a beast. God I miss those days, I have P4 2A GHz coupled with Albatron PX845G and Powercolor 9600XT Bravo back in the day, overclock the CPU to 3GHz 1.75V and voltmod the 9600XT, it beat 9700 scores in 3DMark03. Playing Far Cry for the first time is such a treat!
 
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Motherboard Chaintech 6BTM, Slot 1
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Memory 1x 64MB, PC100
Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
Storage BTC BCD-40XH, Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series, EX6.4 GB
Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Nice rig trekkie4, is that ASUS P4P800 motherboard? The CPU must be 800MHz FSB Northwood, and coupled with 9600Pro its a beast. God I miss those days, I have P4 2A GHz coupled with Albatron PX845G and Powercolor 9600XT Bravo back in the day, overclock the CPU to 3GHz 1.75V and voltmod the 9600XT, it beat 9700 scores in 3DMark03. Playing Far Cry for the first time is such a treat!
Yup, it's (still) a P4P800 SE inside, but I took the liberty of upgrading RAM, video card & changing, downgrading OS to Win XP :)

It was originally a Pentium 4 2.6GHz, with Radeon 9600Pro & 1.5GB DDR400, running Vista. But now it's P4 2.6 (planning to upgrade the CPU with 3.00GHz one) with nVidia GeForce 6600GT & 2GB of DDR400, in dual-channel configuration, running WinXP.


For what it's worth, I was going to keep the "original" Radeon 9600, but due to all the trouble with the heatsink & thermal pads, which are necessary for correct heatsink alignment (in order to prevent the short) I've decided to remove it & replace it with 6600GT. At least until I sort out the heatink issues, then I'll decide what to do with it... ;)
 

Keullo-e

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Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X up to 5.05GHz
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Memory 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury @ DDR4-3466
Video Card(s) PowerColor RX 6700 XT Fighter OC/UV
Storage ~4TB SSD + 6TB HDD
Display(s) Acer 27" 4K120 IPS + Lenovo 32" 4K60 IPS
Case Corsair 4000D Airflow White
Audio Device(s) Asus TUF H3 Wireless
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Roccat Vulcan 121 AIMO
VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores It runs Crysis remastered at 4K
Well, I had to make the best even better. :)

 
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I never had a Zalman VF700 back in the day and I always liked them but after I found this card at the flea market and it was warped because of the pressure of the VF700 I will think twice before I use one on any of the cards in my collection. While it is great for cooling I really think that the mounting system could've been better. Even if I will mount one I wont leave it installed for great lengths of time.

The card is a Quadro FX 1000 which is bye bye. Even the heastspreader on the graphic chip had its corners lift up over time. The card shows vertical coloured lines on the screen.

There is a small probability that maybe the card has sustained this damage while it was tossed around but it doesnt have marks on the PCB to indicate this. At any rate I really dont like the mounting system and the diagonal backplate.
 

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Joined
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System Name Terminator T3500
Processor Intel Xeon W3680 4GHz
Motherboard Dell T3500
Cooling Deepcool Gammax 400
Memory 12GB (6x2GB) DDR3 1333
Video Card(s) PowerColor Red Dragon RX 580 8GB
Storage 120GB SSD + 1TB HDD
Display(s) Acer H233H - 1920x1080 75Hz
Case Corsair Carbide Spec-01
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Power Supply Corsair CX600
Mouse Corsair Katar
Keyboard Ajazz AK33
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Joined
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Processor i7 3770k @4.3GHZ
Motherboard Asus P8Z77-V
Cooling Hyper 212 Evo
Memory g.skill Sniper 1600 4GB x4
Video Card(s) Powercolor RX480 4GB
Storage Crucial MX100 x2
Display(s) LG 25UM56-P 25"
Case Antec 1100
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Power Supply Corsair HX750
Mouse Roccat Kone EMP
Keyboard CM Storm Trigger
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/27435174
I used to put Zalman cooling on everything lol

Same. But in hindsight a lot of them were underwhelming for the cost.
The only one that made a big impact for me was the CNPS9700
 
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Joined
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System Name Adison "Open Space" 19
Processor Intel Pentium II, 350MHz
Motherboard Chaintech 6BTM, Slot 1
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Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
Storage BTC BCD-40XH, Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series, EX6.4 GB
Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Yup, it's (still) a P4P800 SE inside, but I took the liberty of upgrading RAM, video card & changing, downgrading OS to Win XP :)

It was originally a Pentium 4 2.6GHz, with Radeon 9600Pro & 1.5GB DDR400, running Vista. But now it's P4 2.6 (planning to upgrade the CPU with 3.00GHz one) with nVidia GeForce 6600GT & 2GB of DDR400, in dual-channel configuration, running WinXP.


For what it's worth, I was going to keep the "original" Radeon 9600, but due to all the trouble with the heatsink & thermal pads, which are necessary for correct heatsink alignment (in order to prevent the short) I've decided to remove it & replace it with 6600GT. At least until I sort out the heatink issues, then I'll decide what to do with it... ;)
Finishing on P4 rig, I've managed to boost up additional 500 3D marks, up to 14,000 in total. Just through the software & BIOS tweaks, nothing hardware related :)

It runs all Half Life 2 games (original & Lost Coast are even maxed out), but then I had to reduce the texture quality for Episodes 1, 2 & Portal, because of the VRAM limitation (128MB in total). Otherwise this thing would run on full without any issues whatsoever.

It also runs Doom 3, F.E.A.R, Driv3r (aka Driver 3) and several others, all tweaked on max or second to max. In fact, this system now officially outperforms my RetroMaster 4000 rig, based on a S775 Pentium 4 (@3.00GHz) with Radeon X1550 PCIe graphics & 2GB of DDR400, therefore the same amount of RAM as this other rig here. Quite fascinating actually! :respect:
 

Keullo-e

S.T.A.R.S.
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Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X up to 5.05GHz
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Cooling Custom loop (CPU+GPU, 240 & 120 rads)
Memory 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury @ DDR4-3466
Video Card(s) PowerColor RX 6700 XT Fighter OC/UV
Storage ~4TB SSD + 6TB HDD
Display(s) Acer 27" 4K120 IPS + Lenovo 32" 4K60 IPS
Case Corsair 4000D Airflow White
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Mouse Logitech MX518
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VR HMD Oculus Rift CV1
Software Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores It runs Crysis remastered at 4K
Does it run any cooler?
Haven't tried yet, just assembled the whole AGP PC, and I'll leave in few hours to my parents for Christmas.
 
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Ehrling - Palm Trees

Epic day today!!! Flea market big score!!!

1. MSI MS-6168 VER:2 - 440ZX / 3dfx VooDoo 3 2000 8MB ONBOARD / CREATIVE ES1373 - It needs repairs and a northbridge heatsink. Easy fixes if the board is still alive. We'll see. I never thought that I'll find one.
2. Gigabyte GA-622-16 REV 1.0 / TNT 2 M64 with TURBO SETTING :D - interesting card.
3. Asus GF256/DDR AGP-V6800DDR/32MB (TVR) I wanted a GF256/DDR and I got one :D
4. Advanced Gravis Ultrasound ACE V1.1 - I wanted a Gravis and I got one.
5. Celeron 500MHz S370.(less epic but what the hell :D) - maybe I'll need it some time down the line...who knows. I have fond memories tied to Mendocino.

10 EUR for everything :D:D:D
 

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Joined
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Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard Gigabyte B450M-S2H
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu Mark II
Memory 2 x 16GB SK Hynix OEM DDR4-3200 @ 3666 18-20-18-36
Video Card(s) Colorful RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB
Storage 250GB WD BLACK SN750 M.2 + 4TB WD Red Plus + 4TB WD Purple
Display(s) AOpen 27HC5R 27" 1080p 165Hz
Case COUGAR MX440 Mesh RGB
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium HD + Kurtzweil KS-40A bookshelf
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Razer Deathadder Essential
Keyboard Cougar Attack2 Cherry MX Black
Software Windows 10 Pro 22H1 x64
After having a looong thought of buying the Dimension 4100, I think I better not buying that because it will be too much hassle for me (no CD/DVD for reinstalling Windows, not much IDE drive, probably no USB boot etc.). Instead, I'm buying this for 1/3 of the price (RM50 or around USD 12).

inside.jpg


Its filled with dust bunnies as you might expect but at least it will POST, and support SATA. Its P5VDC-MX and thankfully revision 2.0 which means I could put a Core 2 Duo inside (currently its Pentium Dual Core E2140) but for Windows XP PC I think its enough. It only have 512MB DDR2 (it supports both DDR and DDR2) but I have plenty of DDR2 around, both value and performance ones.

The reason I bought the PC is this, Sapphire Radeon 9550. The GPU itself could be sold for almost the same price as the rig price. Again its dusty but cleaning is easy.

9550.jpg
 
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Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
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Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
After having a looong thought of buying the Dimension 4100, I think I better not buying that because it will be too much hassle for me (no CD/DVD for reinstalling Windows, not much IDE drive, probably no USB boot etc.). Instead, I'm buying this for 1/3 of the price (RM50 or around USD 12).

View attachment 113186

Its filled with dust bunnies as you might expect but at least it will POST, and support SATA. Its P5VDC-MX and thankfully revision 2.0 which means I could put a Core 2 Duo inside (currently its Pentium Dual Core E2140) but for Windows XP PC I think its enough. It only have 512MB DDR2 (it supports both DDR and DDR2) but I have plenty of DDR2 around, both value and performance ones.

The reason I bought the PC is this, Sapphire Radeon 9550. The GPU itself could be sold for almost the same price as the rig price. Again its dusty but cleaning is easy.

View attachment 113187
A while ago, I've had something similar... Asus "P5S800VM Vintage" mATX board, which needed (and was, eventually) entirely recapped. Unfortunately, I was never able to work out the weird graphics issue, and so because of that I gave it up (passed it on to others), before I got my hands on something similar, a P5GD1-VM/Vintage.



It was/is coupled with SL7Z9 Pentium 4, running @3.00GHz.


Eventually, this project became "RetroMaster 4000", which I mentioned recently :) Scored 8,162 3D marks, which is way, WAY under "14,000" from my latest, S478 build
 
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System Name No name / Purple Haze
Processor Phenom II 1100T @ 3.8Ghz / Pentium 4 3.4 EE Gallatin @ 3.825Ghz
Motherboard MSI 970 Gaming/ Abit IC7-MAX3
Cooling CM Hyper 212X / Scythe Andy Samurai Master (CPU) - Modded Ati Silencer 5 rev. 2 (GPU)
Memory 8GB GEIL GB38GB2133C10ADC + 8GB G.Skill F3-14900CL9-4GBXL / 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000
Video Card(s) Asus R9 Fury X Strix (4096 SP's/1050 Mhz)/ PowerColor X850XT PE @ (600/1230) AGP + (HD3850 AGP)
Storage Samsung 250 GB / WD Caviar 160GB
Display(s) Benq XL2411T
Audio Device(s) motherboard / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro + Front panel
Power Supply Tagan BZ 900W / Corsair HX620w
Mouse Zowie AM
Keyboard Qpad MK-50
Software Windows 7 Pro 64Bit / Windows XP
Benchmark Scores 64CU Fury: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11269229 / X850XT PE http://www.3dmark.com/3dm05/5532432
Eventually, this project became "RetroMaster 4000", which I mentioned recently :) Scored 8,162 3D marks, which is way, WAY under "14,000" from my latest, S478 build

I've have been out of this thread for way too long... Would you kindly share the specs of this 14000 points S478 build? :D
 
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Processor Intel Pentium II, 350MHz
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Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
I've have been out of this thread for way too long... Would you kindly share the specs of this 14000 points S478 build? :D
Sure thing... :toast:



CPU: Pentium 4, S478 @2.6GHz (not sure which model code exactly, but it does support HT)
MBO: Asus P4P800 SE, with latest BIOS
RAM: 4x 512MB DDR400, in dual 2x 1GB channel configuration
GPU: nVidia GeForce6 6600GT 128MB VRAM (by LeadTek, requires external/additional power supply through on-board molex)
HDD: Western Digital, 80GB (was downgraded from 120GB one, because I really don't need that much storage capacity)
ODD1: Plextor CD-RW 8/4/32A
ODD2: Hitachi DVD-ROM
OS: Windows XP Professional, SP3 (off-line, without any updates or security patches)

Other: Pinnacle TV tuner (because it came with the system) & Dial-Up Fax modem ... because why not! ;)

I got the system with Radeon 9600Pro, which does work, but will need some repairs to the heatsink/fan assembly. Or I will just scrap the entire thing & order a decent replacement, we shall see. Either way, the card DOES work & will be re-purposed eventually


And this here is the current 6600GT...


To those of you who celebrate, wishing you Happy Holidays! :peace:
 
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System Name No name / Purple Haze
Processor Phenom II 1100T @ 3.8Ghz / Pentium 4 3.4 EE Gallatin @ 3.825Ghz
Motherboard MSI 970 Gaming/ Abit IC7-MAX3
Cooling CM Hyper 212X / Scythe Andy Samurai Master (CPU) - Modded Ati Silencer 5 rev. 2 (GPU)
Memory 8GB GEIL GB38GB2133C10ADC + 8GB G.Skill F3-14900CL9-4GBXL / 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000
Video Card(s) Asus R9 Fury X Strix (4096 SP's/1050 Mhz)/ PowerColor X850XT PE @ (600/1230) AGP + (HD3850 AGP)
Storage Samsung 250 GB / WD Caviar 160GB
Display(s) Benq XL2411T
Audio Device(s) motherboard / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro + Front panel
Power Supply Tagan BZ 900W / Corsair HX620w
Mouse Zowie AM
Keyboard Qpad MK-50
Software Windows 7 Pro 64Bit / Windows XP
Benchmark Scores 64CU Fury: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/11269229 / X850XT PE http://www.3dmark.com/3dm05/5532432
Sure thing... :toast:



CPU: Pentium 4, S478 @2.6GHz (not sure which model code exactly, but it does support HT)
MBO: Asus P4P800 SE, with latest BIOS
RAM: 4x 512MB DDR400, in dual 2x 1GB channel configuration
GPU: nVidia GeForce6 6600GT 128MB VRAM (by LeadTek, requires external/additional power supply through on-board molex)
HDD: Western Digital, 80GB (was downgraded from 120GB one, because I really don't need that much storage capacity)
ODD1: Plextor CD-RW 8/4/32A
ODD2: Hitachi DVD-ROM
OS: Windows XP Professional, SP3 (off-line, without any updates or security patches)

Other: Pinnacle TV tuner (because it came with the system) & Dial-Up Fax modem ... because why not! ;)

I got the system with Radeon 9600Pro, which does work, but will need some repairs to the heatsink/fan assembly. Or I will just scrap the entire thing & order a decent replacement, we shall see. Either way, the card DOES work & will be re-purposed eventually


And this here is the current 6600GT...


To those of you who celebrate, wishing you Happy Holidays! :peace:

Damn!!! This surely is a nostalgic build! Brings back memories of DooM 3, FarCry, Half-Life 2 and Quake 3/IV. I absolutely loved that era! :toast:
That P4P800SE reminded me that I have an inbox brand new ASUS CT-479 socket adapter and a Pentium M 780 waiting to be used...
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
1,800 (0.53/day)
Location
EU
System Name Adison "Open Space" 19
Processor Intel Pentium II, 350MHz
Motherboard Chaintech 6BTM, Slot 1
Cooling SECC Cartridge
Memory 1x 64MB, PC100
Video Card(s) ATI Rage IIc AGP, Diamond Monster 3DII 12MB
Storage BTC BCD-40XH, Quantum Fireball 3.5 Series, EX6.4 GB
Display(s) LG StudioWorks 57M
Case Adison Midi Tower, ATX
Audio Device(s) Creative SoundBlaster 128
Power Supply Codegen 300W
Mouse Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Keyboard Genius SlimStar 110, PS/2
Software Microsoft Windows 98
Damn!!! This surely is a nostalgic build! Brings back memories of DooM 3, FarCry, Half-Life 2 and Quake 3/IV. I absolutely loved that era! :toast:
That P4P800SE reminded me that I have an inbox brand new ASUS CT-479 socket adapter and a Pentium M 780 waiting to be used...
Oh yeah! It runs Doom 3 (even F.E.A.R, since we are discussing horror games lol) smoothly & without any problems, whatsoever. The only serious downside, aka limitation to the hardware is the amount of video memory, 128MB of VRAM which is not really that much even by retro standards. But it gets the job done, so I won't complain :)
 
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