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Trying to understand Ryzen 3000 series boost speed variations

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It's like the theoretical power draw limits under manual OC - when will you ever reach the limit of 1000W of power draw on anything? It's pointless to fret over, and has no bearing on what you actually get. Better for AMD to set an unattainable ceiling than one that will actually limit performance.

If you're using 1usmus or 1909, the scheduler tries its best to keep lightly threaded loads within the same CCX for latency purposes. For you, a CCX is populated by 3 active cores. Seeing as your two best cores are in the first complex, it's not hard to see why the scheduler would want to keep most of the load in there.

Your Core 0 quality makes it easy, because as far as the scheduler is concerned, there is literally no reason ever to migrate load out of the first CCX unless more than 3 cores are needed, which is probably why you see lower freqs and usage on the other 9 cores. On the other hand, if your chip is like mine with Core 0 and the best core at opposite ends of the silicon, the scheduler will feel a bit torn at times.

I described Corsair as "poorly-binned" B-die, but it's still B-die. Throw a little bit extra DRAM voltage at it and you'll likely be able to comfortably get a little frequency and tighter timings out of it. Ryzen DRAM calculator has everything you need, maybe check the V2 profile instead for a more relaxed set of timings.

Yes I am using 1usmus. And yes I know what you mean re limits, I was just wondering why it was being shown that high.
I was watching the load as it went through a R20 and it was interesting to see the load being switched mostly between the first three cores, with the fourth occasionally getting into the mix

With the Dram Calc do you select the speed that you have or the speed that you want? (first time that I have looked at it) As for throwing voltage at it etc, I think I'll need to have a read first lol.
 
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I bet you can do:
3600MT/s 16-16-16-16-32-48 with 1.4V easily, even if its low quality b-dies like mine...
 
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I bet you can do 3600MT/s 16-16-16-16-32 with 1.4V easily, even if its low quality b-dies like mine...

Do you mean like this? All I;ve done is enter what details it looked like it needed then hit the safe calculate

dram-1.jpg

Fast is this

dram-2.jpg
 
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Hit purple button first before safe or fast and profile V1
 
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safe with r-xmp added

dram-1.jpg

fast with r-xmp added

dram-2.jpg

is the dram modules correct? I have 4 sticks
 
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Try
3600
Profile V1
4 modules
2 rank
 
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The suggested settings are I think same as mine (I’m not on my PC now) except the termination block and that’s because you have 4 modules and I have 2.

IMPORTANT:
Change the rank from 2 to 1. I forgot that your sticks are 8GB and not 16.
For sure set check again what Thaiphoon software reports.
 
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The suggested settings are I think same as mine (I’m not on my PC now) except the termination block and that’s because you have 4 modules and I have 2.

IMPORTANT:
Change the rank from 2 to 1. I forgot that your sticks are 8GB and not 16.
For sure set check again what Thaiphoon software
Thaiphoon software ?
 
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Thaiphoon software ?
Thaiphoon Burner. You gotta get on Google a little here, help us help you. Open it up and read one of the SMBuses for deets on your RAM sticks. Also lots of good guides on Ryzen DRAM calculator out there, as to the less-explained features like single rank/dual rank and the V1/V2 profiles.
 
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Thaiphoon Burner. You gotta get on Google a little here, help us help you. Open it up and read one of the SMBuses for deets on your RAM sticks. Also lots of good guides on Ryzen DRAM calculator out there, as to the less-explained features like single rank/dual rank and the V1/V2 profiles.
i just looked it up and got this from malwarebytes -


Website blocked due to trojan
Website blocked: www.softnology.biz
Malwarebytes Browser Guard blocked this website because it may contain malware activity.
We strongly recommend you do not continue.


?
 
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B9954F3D-D635-4B40-99DA-DA2554F9BE0F.png


Try this...

 
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ok got it

t-burner-1.jpg

I hadn't heard of Thaiphoon Burner before, so it took me a sec to realise it was software to do with memory, apologies,

View attachment 139037

Try this...

no that just took me to the same site. Its not just myself that gets that warning btw, I googled it and saw a few posts that said the same thing that I did.

I see that your clock frequency is higher than mine, is that significant?

Just watched a couple of videos, one from Hardware Unboxed. It seems quite easy, is it as easy as it looked?

Also, the suggested voltage is 1.36v, but if you look at my screen shots from HW you'll see that it is already at 1.38v,so should I leave the voltage alone or bump it up higher than the 1.38 it is already at?

One last question for now, if its stable how much of a performance increase is there likely to be please?
 
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Ok the ICs (actual memory chips) are a bit worst than mine but it doesn't matter all that much. Major factor about RAM OC for Ryzen is the UMC (Unified Memory Controller) of the CPU and I bet yours is better than mine cause R9 3900X is a higher quality chip overall than R5 3600.
As i thought the modules are 1 ranked (says so the "Memory Module" -> "Organization" on Thaiphoon) meaning that all 8GB is on 1 side of the modules like most 8GB sticks.

First you need to get a starting point for your DRAM performance and how is it now. You can run "AIDA64 cache and memory benchmark".

First raw is the important about mem read/write/copy bandwidth (higher) and latency the most out of all (lower)
2019-12-11b.png

Your bandwidth could end up higher than mine and latency lower due to higher threads and speed of your CPU.
Be aware that AIDA64 is a paid benchmark. If you dont want to pay for it then you can run the individual 4 tests for memory read/write/copy/latency like this...

2019-12-11b2.png

You can find the first pic memory/cache benchmark right above the Start button in Tools drop down menu.
Run them 1 or 2 times each and save the numbers.
When you get the current performance you can proceed with DRAMcalculator like this

2019-12-11c.png

You dont have to set all the settings provided here but just those in blue squares for start. All else in auto and XMP disabled. All these settings are in the Tweaker page of your BIOS. Set the mem multi to 36 and timings in the Advanced Memory Settings. Be aware that the timings order is different in BIOS.
The 1.35 recommendation for mem voltage is really for high end/quality B-dies and ours are not... Mine works with 1.4V (DRAM voltage CH A/B) for these kind of settings. Max recommended safe 24/7 mem voltage especially for b-dies is 1.45V and some users do even 1.5V with active cooling upon modules.

Under AMD CBS and XFR Enhancement (settings page) in BIOS you will find the IF speed (FCLK set it to 1800MHz)
You also need to be sure about the matching speeds of DRAM and UMC so set the UCLK DIV1 MODE to: UCLK==MEMCLK
Also you can set the SoC/Uncore OC Mode to Enable. This disables the power savings of the SOC/IO die and can help with IF/UMC OC (can raise the avg power consumption of SOC/IO by a few watts, but nothing really important)

Feel free to ask further questions and/or clarifications. Once all set (double checked) and before save and exit I suggest to save this profile preferably to a usb stick.
When you manage to boot and get in windows first thing is to open RM and see that you have the correct settings.

2019-12-11a.png

Run AIDA64 again and see what you have gained. You can run other benchmarks before and after, like 3d marks, superposition, blender or anything you like. Higher mem speed and lower latency is not benefit CB scores all that much but you can run them too...

EDIT: some typos and...

The 3rd page of RyzenDRAMcalc contains a memory benchmark/stability test (last about 2~3 min) and it is a good show about the overall stability of the memory subsystem as a whole. If you finish it without errors there is a good chance that your system is stable by 99% if not 100%. Just click RUN as is, and dont do anything else. The test will start after 5~10sec.
And definately do some real (AAA) gaming too for at least ~2 hours sessions.
 
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Ok the ICs (actual memory chips) are a bit worst than mine but it doesn't matter all that much. Major factor about RAM OC for Ryzen is the UMC (Unified Memory Controller) of the CPU and I bet yours is better than mine cause R9 3900X is a higher quality chip overall than R5 3600.
As i thought the modules are 1 ranked (says so the "Memory Module" -> "Organization" on Thaiphoon) meaning that all 8GB is on 1 side of the modules like most 8GB sticks.

First you need to get a starting point for your DRAM performance and how is it now. You can run "AIDA64 cache and memory benchmark".

First raw is the important about mem read/write/copy bandwidth (higher) and latency the most out of all (lower)
View attachment 139047

Your bandwidth could end up higher than mine and latency lower due to higher threads and speed of your CPU.
Be aware that AIDA64 is a paid benchmark. If you dont want to pay for it then you can run the individual 4 tests for memory read/write/copy/latency like this...

View attachment 139051

You can find the first pic memory/cache benchmark right above the Start button in Tools drop down menu.
Run them 1 or 2 times each and save the numbers.
When you get the current performance you can proceed with DRAMcalculator like this

View attachment 139053

You dont have to set all the settings provided here but just those in blue squares for start. All else in auto and XMP disabled. All these settings are in the Tweaker page of your BIOS. Set the mem multi to 36 and timings in the Advanced Memory Settings. Be aware that the timings order is different in BIOS.
The 1.35 recommendation for mem voltage is really for high end/quality B-dies and ours are not... Mine works with 1.4V (DRAM voltage CH A/B) for these kind of settings. Max recommended safe 24/7 mem voltage especially for b-dies is 1.45V and some users do even 1.5V with active cooling upon modules.

Under AMD CBS and XFR Enhancement (settings page) in BIOS you will find the IF speed (FCLK set it to 1800MHz)
You also need to be sure about the matching speeds of DRAM and UMC so set the UCLK DIV1 MODE to: UCLK==MEMCLK
Also you can set the SoC/Uncore OC Mode to Enable. This disables the power savings of the SOC/IO die and can help with IF/UMC OC (can raise the avg power consumption of SOC/IO by a few watts, but nothing really important)

Feel free to ask further questions and/or clarifications. Once all set (double checked) and before save and exit I suggest to save this profile preferably to a usb stick.
When you manage to boot and get in windows first thing is to open RM and see that you have the correct settings.

View attachment 139056

Run AIDA64 again and see what you have gained. You can run other benchmarks before and after, like 3d marks, superposition, blender or anything you like. Higher mem speed and lower latency is not benefit CB scores all that much but you can run them too...

EDIT: some typos and...

The 3rd page of RyzenDRAMcalc contains a memory benchmark/stability test (last about 2~3 min) and it is a good show about the overall stability of the memory subsystem as a whole. If you finish it without errors there is a good chance that your system is stable by 99% if not 100%. Just click RUN as is, and dont do anything else. The test will start after 5~10sec.
And definately do some real (AAA) gaming too for at least ~2 hours sessions.
Hi and first of all thanks for taking the time to explain all this, I appreciate it.

First of all my Aida64 cach and memory benchmark

Aida64-cach-memory.png

These are my settings for the D-ram Calc as they currently are. With profile V1, memory rank 1, frequency 3200, BCLK 100, Dimm modules 4, motherboard B450/X470

Dram standard  2019-12-11 095830.jpg

These are the settings for a safe preset for 3600 (if I have understood you correctly

Dram safe preset with 3600  2019-12-11 095830.jpg

Again if I have understood correctly in Bios (unsure if there is a dedicated page for tweaking but I'll watch some videos again), I set

XMP to disabled
tCL 16
tRCDWR 16
trCDRD 16
tRP 16
tRAS 32
tRC 48

tRFC 345

FCLK 1800

What would you suggest I set the DRAM voltage to as it is Already between 1.344 - 1.392 and currently 1.38? Would it be ok to set to 1.400v as a beginning, or even leave it as it is for a starting point?? If it doesn't boot I presume that I just go back into bios and up it in 0.1 amounts and try again, or smaller stages?

Also, if it doesn't boot at all, no matter what voltage I try reasonably, do I then go back and set every memory setting back to auto/original settings and FCLK to 1600?
And then come back here and shout"Help!" lol

Oh and I have done a full memtest86, took 7 hours!

memtest86-pass.jpg
 
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XMP to disabled
tCL 16
tRCDWR 16
trCDRD 16
tRP 16
tRAS 32
tRC 48

tRFC 345

FCLK 1800

What would you suggest I set the DRAM voltage to as it is Already between 1.344 - 1.392 and currently 1.38? Would it be ok to set to 1.400v as a beginning, or even leave it as it is for a starting point?? If it doesn't boot I presume that I just go back into bios and up it in 0.1 amounts and try again, or smaller stages?

Also, if it doesn't boot at all, no matter what voltage I try reasonably, do I then go back and set every memory setting back to auto/original settings and FCLK to 1600?
And then come back here and shout"Help!" lol
My suggestion is pretty much those settings yes.

XMP: disabled
Memory multi: 36
tCL: 16
tRCDWR: 16
trCDRD: 16
tRP: 16
tRAS: 32
tRC: 48
tRFC: 345
DRAM voltage: 1.40V
FCLK: 1800MHz
UCLK==MEMCLK
SoC/Uncore OC: Enabled


I’m pretty confident that you will boot with these and get into Windows.
Getting out of stability tests without errors is another case, but I think you will.

Tests:
AIDA64
RyzenDRAMcalc MEMbench
...if you finish(2-3mins) this MEMbench without errors then proceed with any test of your liking...

The main goal is to bring down that memory latency from 78ns below 70 and close to 65 if possible. The best I’ve ever seen is 62-63ns on ZEN2 platform but with expensive high quality ram sticks.
Increased GB/s is welcomed too if happened along.

Im getting 68ns with similar settings.

Tweaking the memory and find its limits is more painful than CPU OC. Be patient and thorough
 
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My suggestion is pretty much those settings yes.

XMP: disabled
Memory multi: 36
tCL: 16
tRCDWR: 16
trCDRD: 16
tRP: 16
tRAS: 32
tRC: 48
tRFC: 345
DRAM voltage: 1.40V
FCLK: 1800MHz
UCLK==MEMCLK
SoC/Uncore OC: Enabled


I’m pretty confident that you will boot with these and get into Windows.
Getting out of stability tests without errors is another case, but I think you will.

Tests:
AIDA64
RyzenDRAMcalc MEMbench
...if you finish(2-3mins) this MEMbench without errors then proceed with any test of your liking...

The main goal is to bring down that memory latency from 78ns below 70 and close to 65 if possible. The best I’ve ever seen is 62-63ns on ZEN2 platform but with expensive high quality ram sticks.
Increased GB/s is welcomed too if happened along.

Im getting 68ns with similar settings.

Tweaking the memory and find its limits is more painful than CPU OC. Be patient and thorough
Thanks,
I'll likely have a try tomorrow as I am Knackered for today, I Hurt.
I have Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP) and have limited amounts of 'spoons' to do something each day. I moved things around in here today to make it easier for me on the days that I'm relegated to the wheelchair, so that's it as far as anything constructive for today. It's something I've been meaning to do for ages and never got around to it until now.

More information learned (latency). It's obvious when pointed out but until you get into that mindset you have no clue as to what you are hoping to achieve beyond making it 'better'

@Zach_01 a quick question re RyzenDRAMcalc MEMbench
Just opened up RyzenDRAMcalc MEMbench to have a look at that section and where it says 'Ram size (mb)' it has 12000 greyed out and cannot be changed. I tried to as I wasn't sure it was correct, is it?
I have set membench mode to default, as I do have more than 8GB of ram of course
 

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and have limited amounts of 'spoons' to do something each day. I
I like the energy bar analogy better. :)

Anyways, like this thread. Weird how Ryzen kinda sorta made overclocking (or tweaking) slightly popular even if it’s largely pointless.
 
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I like the energy bar analogy better. :)

Anyways, like this thread. Weird how Ryzen kinda sorta made overclocking (or tweaking) slightly popular even if it’s largely pointless.
Why weird? They made decent kit affordable to far more people that Intel did. Not getting into the red/blue 'fight' simply saying that AMD CPUs' in general are more affordable than Intel generally, giving people access to higher spec kit. As to being largely pointless I disagree, free extra performance, however small is always a good thing and needing to learn more about PCs and their components to get that free extra performance is hardly a detriment either.
 

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Benchmark Scores I once had +100 dorfs in DF, so yeah pretty great
Why weird? They made decent kit affordable to far more people that Intel did. Not getting into the red/blue 'fight' simply saying that AMD CPUs' in general are more affordable than Intel generally, giving people access to higher spec kit. As to being largely pointless I disagree, free extra performance, however small is always a good thing and needing to learn more about PCs and their components to get that free extra performance is hardly a detriment either.
Ironic may be a better word. Coincidence. I mean people are into overclocking them, but afaik you don’t get a whole lot out of them. The chips are by design running more or less as hard as they can already, at least the bigger models. As someone said: AMD opened up for tinkering but killed overclocking with the boost thingie (hyperbole). Late first gen low end Ryzens could be pushed decently hard though. I mean there’s not much free performance to be had.

but again, I love how involved it is, and that people (such as yourself) are into it. :) Much more interesting than just setting a speed in BIOS and you’re done.
 
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Ironic may be a better word. Coincidence. I mean people are into overclocking them, but afaik you don’t get a whole lot out of them. The chips are by design running more or less as hard as they can already, at least the bigger models. As someone said: AMD opened up for tinkering but killed overclocking with the boost thingie (hyperbole). Late first gen low end Ryzens could be pushed decently hard though. I mean there’s not much free performance to be had.

but again, I love how involved it is, and that people (such as yourself) are into it. :) Much more interesting than just setting a speed in BIOS and you’re done.
Hmm, not sure there, as I am very late to the 'game' so to speak. For a start, every AMD cpu pretty much is clockable, again something that can't be said about Intel, add that to their affordability and you then have the opportunity available for anyone. Yes there isn't much headroom to be had, but it is there all the same. Plus as I am just finding out now, there is the ram to improve on as well, again as not everyone can afford expensive exotic ram.

I think more than anything else it's that AMD have made tinkering/tweaking your PCs performance available to anyone, not just those with enough money to buy an unlocked Intel.
Plus of course, everyone loves an 'underdog' but I'm not so sure just how many still class AMD as that These days.

@Zach_01 yet another question whilst i think of it. CPU Core Voltage (SV12 TFN). I'm seeing lows of 1.09V, highs of 1.494V with an average of 1.419V.
CPU VCORE SOC is lows of 1.080V, highs of 1.116V and an average of 1.097V.\

Is this normal for the 3900x? i read that the cpu operates in the region of 1.2V to 1.5V, yet always thought that was high ?
 
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For the RyzenCalc MEMbench leave it and run it as is...

I also noticed (by your screenshots) that your CPU voltage averages in the higher region. While it is not out of spec by any means could indicate that the CPU is mostly on the “awake” mode, and less on the “sleeping” (low p-states/parking cores). This can be affected by a lot of factors. Powerplan settings, background services/apps or could be the board it self preventing the CPU to enter the low p-states.

And it’s not that this reading of voltage is wrong. With your cooling setup (CPU/case coolers) I would expect to see your idle temp somewhere around 35C and not around 40C.
Sure temps affected by ambient but not the voltage. Although a chip needs higher voltage as temps are rising, but not so much in order to get your avg idle voltage to 1.4+V. And for sure not on idle/very low loads.

Question:
When the PC is idle (even with browser open or YT vids) how is the average CPU usage after like 2-3 hours?

I have a sh*t load of opened apps and monitors sitting in sys tray and my CPU avg usage is about 2.5% (hwinfo)

SoC voltage is perfectly normal around a steady 1.08V
 
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For the RyzenCalc MEMbench leave it and run it as is...

I also noticed (by your screenshots) that your CPU voltage averages in the higher region. While it is not out of spec by any means could indicate that the CPU is mostly on the “awake” mode, and less on the “sleeping” (low p-states/parking cores). This can be affected by a lot of factors. Powerplan settings, background services/apps or could be the board it self preventing the CPU to enter the low p-states.

And it’s not that this reading of voltage is wrong. With your cooling setup (CPU/case coolers) I would expect to see your idle temp somewhere around 35C and not around 40C.
Sure temps affected by ambient but not the voltage. Although a chip needs higher voltage as temps are rising, but not so much in order to get your avg idle voltage to 1.4+V. And for sure not on idle/very low loads.

Question:
When the PC is idle (even with browser open or YT vids) how is the average CPU usage after like 2-3 hours?

I have a sh*t load of opened apps and monitors sitting in sys tray and my CPU avg usage is about 2.5% (hwinfo)

SoC voltage is perfectly normal around a steady 1.08V
I've been browsing and watching YouTube videos for the past few hours, average temp is 45-50 depending on what I am doing at That time, average 5% cpu usage (but that does include a CB run I did an hour or so ago I think), literally just before I began typing this it was at 2.8%.

Everything that I have read about the 3900x says that 1.4V is usual for it, just seems high to me.

Room temp is 22.5C btw

Power plan is 1usmus one.

You can see here that 18 out of the 24 threads have a min of <50MHz, which I believe is when the core goes to sleep?

light usage.jpg
 
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From what you say seem normal... I don’t have experience with 3900X first hand so I’m just speculating...
We must not forget that this CPU has double cores than mine.

But...
At that screenshot what you see below 100MHz effective clock or report minimum usage (all are T1 threads) are the logical cores. Meaning (to me at least) that the physical cores are kind of active, or more active at least.

I don’t really know if this is 100% normal. Perhaps someone else with same CPU could help
 
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From what you say seem normal... I don’t have experience with 3900X first hand so I’m just speculating...
We must not forget that this CPU has double cores than mine.

But...
At that screenshot what you see below 100MHz effective clock or report minimum usage (all are T1 threads) are the logical cores. Meaning (to me at least) that the physical cores are kind of active, or more active at least.

I don’t really know if this is 100% normal. Perhaps someone else with same CPU could help
Yes but min usage from core 5 onward the min usage is below 50MHZ, which I read was when the cores go to sleep. So surely if all the threads from core 5 to core 11 have at some point dropped below 50MHz doesn't that mean that they would have gone to sleep? I'm trying to understand here not stating any facts, also speculating from what I have read.

Oh, correction to the average CPU usage when at desktop with Firefox with Lots of pages open, Thunderbird, Hangouts, file explorer, cinebench, Dram Calc and HWinfo all running, was 2.9%
I also looked through all my HWInfo screenshots and the highest the VRM MOS reaches was 45c and an average of 38c.
 
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