Trying to understand Ryzen 3000 series boost speed variations

[PolRoger]

Two more CB R20 runs...

I tried to snap the PBO HWiNFO screen shot while Cinebench was running.

Default PBO via Ryzen Master with memory set in BIOS @ DOCP 3200C14 and LLC set to max droop:

Per CCX (static OC) with 1.35v vcore via Ryzen Master with memory set in BIOS @ DOCP 3200C14 and LLC set to max droop:

 

[lorry]

@PolRoger would you be willing to show me some screenshots from HWInfo running after a 3~4 min session and say at 1~2 hour at all please?
Trying to compare your figures with mine, to see if mine are in the same ballpark really.

say idle/low loads, like browsing, when you are on PBO only for those times.

 

[PolRoger]

@PolRoger would you be willing to show me some screenshots from HWInfo running after a 3~4 min session and say at 1~2 hour at all please?
Trying to compare your figures with mine, to see if mine are in the same ballpark really.

say idle/low loads, like browsing, when you are on PBO only for those times.

Default PBO with DOCP... (3200C14) and LLC set to max droop.

Shortly after a cold start:

After ~1-1/4 hour... Web browsing and light usage plus some idle time... Also ran a CB R20 and fiddled with some Realbench benchmarks toward the end.

Edit: Rebooted and re-ran complete RealBench benchmark with same PBO/DOCP settings but changed LLC from #5 (max droop) to #4... Auto is #3... While #1 is (max LLC).

 

[lorry]

Thanks !

 

[Zach_01]

@PolRoger, thanks for the screenshots. Can you share with us the specific settings you have/had for CPU during those pics, on BIOS and windows?
And not just PBO, but voltages, SOC settings, CPPC and P-States, RyzenMaster(if any), Windows power plan... and any other you think that might affect CPU clock/voltage behaviour.

We just trying to better understand ZEN2. Thanks, we appreciate your info input!

 

[Waldorf]

Not sure how much that will help.
Not one chip will match the next on clocks and voltage needed to do those.
E.g. The first 3600 ran at 1.4x, the 2nd one i bought runs the same clocks at 1.2x
Using the numbers from one, would not work on the other.

Seem reason i find it funny when ppl "calibrate" their tv with the settings from a review (red +3/blue +1 etc), when those will only work on that particular tv, as variations in screen/hw will need different settings for each.

 

[Zach_01]

Yes we are aware of the silicon quality variations, and also and important the board variation, the temp variation.... well you get the point.
And if we try to replicate conditions but results are different, it wont be a surprise...

Thanks for the heads up tho!

 

[mtcn77]

Default PBO with DOCP... (3200C14) and LLC set to max droop.

Edit: Rebooted and re-ran complete RealBench benchmark with same PBO/DOCP settings but changed LLC from #5 (max droop) to #4... Auto is #3... While #1 is (max LLC).

Great information. We have various options, it seems.

• One, cpb and no llc.

We can enable core performance boost and set LLC low to leverage clock stretching in order to maximise task power efficiency.

• Two, no cpb, manual vid and high llc. I recommend you check this guide out, in case we haven't: Overclockers.co.uk is the best.

We could set llc high and disable core performance boost. Since clock stretching won't work, it is imperative we set the voltage appropriately, or otherwise it will crash into bluescreen. Since there won't be any other low state, we had best enable cc6 in the bios. It is a new convention with much faster sleep state.

 

[PolRoger]

@PolRoger, thanks for the screenshots. Can you share with us the specific settings you have/had for CPU during those pics, on BIOS and windows?
And not just PBO, but voltages, SOC settings, CPPC and P-States, RyzenMaster(if any), Windows power plan... and any other you think that might affect CPU clock/voltage behaviour.

We just trying to better understand ZEN2. Thanks, we appreciate your info input!

From my post #878

In BIOS everything was default/auto except for enabling DOCP for my GSkill FlareX 2x8GB 3200C14 memory kit and changing LLC from "auto" to either #5 or #4 which should have increased vdroop under load.

-Windows v1909
-most recent AMD chipset drivers 2.01.15. 2138
-most recent ASRock BIOS... AGESA 1.0.0.4B (v2.70) but I've also run the previous BIOS (v2.10) AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA and the current release BETA BIOS (v2.73).
-1usmus Power Plan v1.1

Great information. We have various options, it seems.

• One, cpb and no llc.

We can enable core performance boost and set LLC low to leverage clock stretching in order to maximise task power efficiency.

• Two, no cpb, manual vid and high llc. I recommend you check this guide out, in case we haven't: Overclockers.co.uk is the best.

We could set llc high and disable core performance boost. Since clock stretching won't work, it is imperative we set the voltage appropriately, or otherwise it will crash into bluescreen. Since there won't be any other low state, we had best enable cc6 in the bios. It is a new convention with much faster sleep state.

Clock stretching is an interesting development with the Ryzen 3000 series.

I may have to test default PBO/DOCP with some benchmarks and the different LLC settings on this motherboard to see if performance is affected between full droop and full LLC enabled settings?

I had been thinking that PBO performance would be the same regardless of LLC... So I was just running with droop.

 

[mtcn77]

I had had been thinking that PBO performance would be the same regardless of LLC... So I was just running with droop.

Not PBO; CPB. It is the pb2/xfr bios switch. If you turn it off, apparently it serves to run your cpu totally manually. I'd say it is pretty straight forward. However, I stated my objections.
You need some form of power gating not to run at full load when idling. Therefore, I think, if you are going to go the PBO route, you had better leave llc at base bottom to extend EDC & clock stretching do its thing and go for it when CPB-free manually tuning at the cc6 backdrop.

I may have to test default PBO/DOCP

I'd hold on that idea. You are doing great, DOCP will mess things... add %1 here, 2% there - these parts like to keep the motherboard clock the same.

 

[Zach_01]

PBO scalar (X1 default/auto) can greatly affect voltage and clock during various loads, and not just at max load. Setting it more than X2 though current of CPU increase quickly and thus the temp too. So minimizes the clock gains, unless you have a super cooling water loop or even a chiller. You can bring down again temp without extra cooling by decreasing current (EDC) but only marginal (for X3 and beyond).
X2 I found is the one with some gain return when conventional cooling is used.

 

[Waldorf]

outside chiller/Ln2, this won't happen.

I did another run with the room not heated for 12h, running bench right after boot,
and even my 3600 already produces more heat than even the eisbär can transfer fast enough.
I ran a occ bench with max load/temp on cpu, and Temps increased the same way, even with the rad/water around 40*C lower, compared to fully saturated Temps.
Stopped the bench, and Temps dropped down to idle (32C) within seconds.

So even the most extreme block/rad/loop on the planet, will not make any difference.

Only if the block gets actively cooled below ambient, will temp associated limits go away.

 

[Zach_01]

Why your water is up to 40°C? Do you not cool it, or the heat from the 3600 is so much that rad cant co-op?

I'v never seen water temp above 30°C on the H110i 280mm. Actually its between ~25°C (idle) and 28°C (load), with CPU around 30°C (idle) and 60~62°C (load).
Even if I turn down fan rpm to 500 water never goes past 32°C.

Ambient and air feed to rad is ~23°C

 

[PolRoger]

Not PBO; CPB. It is the pb2/xfr bios switch. If you turn it off, apparently it serves to run your cpu totally manually. I'd say it is pretty straight forward. However, I stated my objections.
You need some form of power gating not to run at full load when idling. Therefore, I think, if you are going to go the PBO route, you had better leave llc at base bottom to extend EDC & clock stretching do its thing and go for it when CPB-free manually tuning at the cc6 backdrop.

I'd hold on that idea. You are doing great, DOCP will mess things... add %1 here, 2% there - these parts like to keep the motherboard clock the same.

I guess I'll need to do some research about AMD cpu tech...

I thought that Core Performance Boost and Precision Boost Overdrive would work hand in hand or is CPB just for Ryzen and Ryzen+ series while PBO is for Ryzen 2?

I also thought that DOCP was kind of like AMD's version of Intel's XMP designed for optimizing/stabilizing higher memory speeds and timings for a specified memory kit.

 

[mtcn77]

thought that Core Performance Boost and Precision Boost Overdrive would work hand in hand or is CPB just for Ryzen and Ryzen+ series while PBO is for Ryzen 2?

That is a handsome guess. However, we have AMD guidelines: PBO is for threadripper series, not ryzen...

I also thought that DOCP was kind of like AMD's version of Intel's XMP designed for optimizing/stabilizing higher memory speeds and timings for a specified memory kit.

That is also a great guess, albeit for reasons pertaining to AMD, while they should have named it 'AMP' in the first place, they stuck with that misnomer that familiarizes us with mobo oc.

 

[PolRoger]

That is a handsome guess. However, we have AMD guidelines: PBO is for threadripper series, not ryzen...

That is also a great guess, albeit for reasons pertaining to AMD, while they should have named it 'AMP' in the first place, they stuck with that misnomer that familiarizes us with mobo oc.

Heck... I'm finding out that I'm just an AMD "Noob"... or rather a "Padawan" who has much to learn.

I changed CPB in the Advanced section of BIOS from default/auto to disabled and ran a CB R20... Performance sure dropped because my 3900X was "capped" at default/3800Mhz!

 

[mtcn77]

I changed CPB in the Advanced section of BIOS from default/auto to disabled and ran a CB R20... Performance sure dropped because my 3900X was "capped" at default/3800Mhz!

- "He's beginning to believe!"
Pol, use the force. Channel your energies, they will guide you in your oc.
(Here, you need to enter into manual bios orbit.)
Let go of your automatic vid and multiplier. Your feelings will guide you.
Generally, 3900X is a variant of 3600. Try 41x 1.25v high, 1.325v low voltage. Ignore high unless using msi, afaik.

 

[Waldorf]

@Zach_01
changed it to "lower", so its easier to understand (i didnt mean water temp).

@mtcn77
PBO is TR only? lol

im out

 

[Zach_01]

@Zach_01
changed it to "lower", so its easier to understand (i didnt mean water temp).

I ran a occ bench with max load/temp on cpu, and Temps increased the same way, even with the rad/water around 40*C lower, compared to fully saturated Temps.
Stopped the bench, and Temps dropped down to idle (32C) within seconds.

Still does not give me any other clue than that water is 40°C. Or did you wanted to say below 40? If yes, then still at 38°C I find it too warmed up for water on a 3600 (less than 90W), when I always see below 30°C.

@mtcn77
PBO is TR only? lol

im out

Of course AM4 ZEN2 CPUs have it, but maybe he ment to say that they shouldn't because of thermal behaviour. And if that was the point then I will have to disagree.

 

[mtcn77]

@mtcn77
PBO is TR only? lol

im out

Of course AM4 ZEN2 CPUs have it, but maybe he ment to say that they shouldn't because of thermal behaviour. And if that was the point then I will have to disagree.

It is there folks.

Spoiler: Look at the AMD footnotes:

Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) is a powerful new feature of the 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ CPUs.¹

Spoiler: AMD featureset

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/b8a5ft TL;DR Official AMD-Supported Feature Matrix

All Ryzen/Threadripper 2000 Series: Precision Boost 2, XFR2

Threadripper 2000 Series: Above+PBO

 

[lorry]

http://imgur.com/kSuGPXl

http://imgur.com/gnGsVNa

 

[Waldorf]

@Zach_01
my mistake. should say 10 C lower water/rad temp, compared to the room heated.
I was posting from work, in between customers, guess I got a bit confused

 

[Zach_01]

It is there folks.

You couldnt be more wrong...
What you are saying is from 2018 where Threadripper 2000 first intoduced PBO function. At that time PBO was exclusive to TR.
Now with 3000 all CPUs (AM4, TRX) have it. Wellcome to 2019-2020 CPU tech!

 

[mtcn77]

You couldnt be more wrong...

Your zeal to prove me wrong does not change its origin. Enjoy riling yourself.

 

[Zach_01]

Your zeal to prove me wrong does not change its origin. Enjoy riling yourself.

Change origin of what exactly? What you posted back there, yes its from AMD, but it is from 2018 and talks about TR 2000 series.
Its obsolete article and does not apply to any 3000 series SKU, whether is AM4 or TRX.

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We are in a 3000 series thread with topic on that, we are talking about 3000 series CPUs and you are stated something untrue about them.

That is a handsome guess. However, we have AMD guidelines: PBO is for threadripper series, not ryzen...

Its my fault that you said that when its not true? Should I, or anyone else, let it be?
Well I'm afraid not. When I see false statement (written as a fact) I will prove it wrong for the sakes of others that might not be aware of it.

I'm not enjoying proving you wrong, nor you can rile me up. You assume too much.