Trying to understand Ryzen 3000 series boost speed variations

[lorry]

And that's why you don't over think it.. You just get the main chunk of performance from some enhancements and enjoy.

However... I'll advertise to help any one on the seek for no stability (or very little) and smoke everyone else with a similar processor lol. (I'm, far from the best, but have had my fair share of fun )

There is no sweet spot between daily use and bench-marking purposes. period. Once I give you the red pill, we go down the rabbit hole. You'll never return the same lol. Turn into a hw junkie. I've seen it many times in the last couple of decades. This hobby can become very addictive.

Oh and by the way, you can slap a fan on the memory if it feels warm to the back of your finger. (this helps stability just like a cpu )

I do already have a specific ram fan kit, with RGB lol. Happened across it on eBay
Trouble is that it damn near made the ram as tall as the Noctua cpu cooler!

Oh and don't worry, I can become as obsessed as the next person, especially as I have way too much time.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Ah yes. I have one as well. For older memory but still works the same.
Good. Bulky but at least has RGB and does the job. Just what you need!

The bestest way to get hooked on overclocking is buying older hardware which is generally cheap. Then you don't have to beat on your daily gamer.
Overclocking methodology has been pretty much the same since AMD socket A (462 pin). So what you're learning today can be applied to yesterdays PCs.

 

[Zach_01]

Have one too... an old one

I do already have a specific ram fan kit, with RGB lol. Happened across it on eBay
View attachment 139149
Trouble is that it damn near made the ram as tall as the Noctua cpu cooler!

Oh and don't worry, I can become as obsessed as the next person, especially as I have way too much time.

How much did you find it on eBay? Noise?
I saw your ram sticks have temp sensors. How much does this help?
Here at local market is about 60~65€ and on eBay just found it 70~120€ + 15~20€ shipping

 

[lorry]

Have one too... an old one


View attachment 139155

How much did you find it on eBay? Noise?
I saw your ram sticks have temp sensors. How much does this help?
Here at local market is about 60~65€ and on eBay just found it 70~120€ + 15~20€ shipping

Think it was £39 ?
I have no idea how much it helps, as I've not used them.
And not tried as yet because their height would prevent any decent cpu cooler

 

[Zach_01]

£39 ah... that's about 46€
Out of 10 retailers here only 1 has it at stock and 85€ ... others (65~80€) saying order first.
Hardware is expensive here me think so...

 

[lorry]

Hey Lorry,

Does your motherboard have a setting called SenseMi Skew and SenseMi offset by any chance?
If it does, I can help you with an alternative to boosting affects for the cpu.... (After you get your ram sorted out of course)

I looked completely through the bios and didn't see either of those settings

£39 ah... that's about 46€
Out of 10 retailers here only 1 has it at stock and 85€ ... others (65~80€) saying order first.
Hardware is expensive here me think so...

This was a private sale, new from a retailer Scan they are between £60 - £72

Saw an interesting setting whilst in the bios, might be a Gigabyte only setting?

XMP High Freq Support - settings are auto, level 1, 2, 3,

Found this on a search -

"This was actually easy to figure out - I just enabled all three and each time checked in Ryzen master. It's just a quick toggle for Fabric speeds and possibly voltages - I did not check voltages - but can confirm the manual fabric speeds that were adjusted. Level 1 sets your fabric (uclk) to 1600mhz to support DDR4 3200, Level 2 sets it at 1700mhz to support DDR4 3400 and Level 3 obviously is the magic 1800mhz to support DDR3600. Auto works fine on my board using DDR4 3600, sets the fabric correctly to 1800mhz "

 

[tabascosauz]

"This was actually easy to figure out - I just enabled all three and each time checked in Ryzen master. It's just a quick toggle for Fabric speeds and possibly voltages - I did not check voltages - but can confirm the manual fabric speeds that were adjusted. Level 1 sets your fabric (uclk) to 1600mhz to support DDR4 3200, Level 2 sets it at 1700mhz to support DDR4 3400 and Level 3 obviously is the magic 1800mhz to support DDR3600. Auto works fine on my board using DDR4 3600, sets the fabric correctly to 1800mhz "

Yeah, it's a Gigabyte thing. It works well enough on Auto though, no need to set it as long as you're still using 3600 as you are.

 

[lorry]

Yeah, it's a Gigabyte thing. It works well enough on Auto though, no need to set it as long as you're still using 3600 as you are.

no, ATM it is on 3200, I have yet to try 3600

 

[tabascosauz]

no, ATM it is on 3200, I have yet to try 3600

I meant, I have no idea how it would work if you decided to OC past 3600. It's easy enough to check if the board is doing its job, though; HWInfo 6.20 has FCLK and UCLK just under CPU power.

 

[Zach_01]

This was a private sale, new from a retailer Scan they are between £60 - £72

I see...

Saw an interesting setting whilst in the bios, might be a Gigabyte only setting?
XMP High Freq Support - settings are auto, level 1, 2, 3,
Found this on a search -
"This was actually easy to figure out - I just enabled all three and each time checked in Ryzen master. It's just a quick toggle for Fabric speeds and possibly voltages - I did not check voltages - but can confirm the manual fabric speeds that were adjusted. Level 1 sets your fabric (uclk) to 1600mhz to support DDR4 3200, Level 2 sets it at 1700mhz to support DDR4 3400 and Level 3 obviously is the magic 1800mhz to support DDR3600. Auto works fine on my board using DDR4 3600, sets the fabric correctly to 1800mhz "

I'm on auto for this too when XMP enabled. But if you disable XMP to set your own freq/timings has no point.
...and just a clarification
UCLK = UMC/UnifiedMemoryController clock
FCLK = Infinity Fabric clock

I meant, I have no idea how it would work if you decided to OC past 3600. It's easy enough to check if the board is doing its job, though; HWInfo 6.20 has FCLK and UCLK just under CPU power.

Yes and RyzenMaster has all the info too

 

[lorry]

I meant, I have no idea how it would work if you decided to OC past 3600. It's easy enough to check if the board is doing its job, though; HWInfo 6.20 has FCLK and UCLK just under CPU power.

Yes I see them

I see...


I'm on auto for this too when XMP enabled. But if you disable XMP to set your own freq/timings has no point.
...and just a clarification
UCLK = UMC/UnifiedMemoryController clock
FCLK = Infinity Fabric clock


Yes and RyzenMaster has all the info too

So do \i disable that when I try for 3600? Or simply leave it alone?

 

[Zach_01]

You have several option regarding XMP...

Ex.
1) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, leave timings as is (auto=XMP regulated), 1.4V
2) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, change primary timings to 16-16-16-16-32 (all else auto by XMP), 1.4V
3) XMP disabled, raise the multi to 36, change timings to 16-16-16-16-32-48, TRFC 345 or 358, 1.4V

You may try with option 3 to keep XMP enabled but there is a chance that results would be worst that now (XMP 3200). Sometimes at some settings there is a conflict between manual settings and other XMP settings that are on auto leading to large latency penalty. The principal is the more timings you manually set the XMP must be disabled to avoid such latency penalty.

If you have the patience you can try combinations.
Out of experience the 3rd option would return the most performance (XMP enabled/disabled... depends).

There are alot more to tweak in there about memory but these I say are ok for a good start.

 

[lorry]

You have several option regarding XMP...

Ex.
1) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, leave timings as is (auto=XMP regulated), 1.4V
2) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, change primary timings to 16-16-16-16-32 (all else auto by XMP), 1.4V
3) XMP disabled, raise the multi to 36, change timings to 16-16-16-16-32-48, TRFC 345 or 358, 1.4V

You may try with option 3 to keep XMP enabled but there is a chance that results would be worst that now (XMP 3200). Sometimes at some settings there is a conflict between manual settings and other XMP settings that are on auto leading to large latency penalty. The principal is the more timings you manually set the XMP must be disabled to avoid such latency penalty.

If you have the patience you can try combinations.
Out of experience the 3rd option would return the most performance (XMP enabled/disabled... depends).

There are alot more to tweak in there about memory but these I say are ok for a good start.

ATM I;m searching to see Where the SoC/Uncore OC is to set it to enabled
As I didn't see it in bios

 

[tabascosauz]

You have several option regarding XMP...

Ex.
1) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, leave timings as is (auto=XMP regulated), 1.4V
2) Keep XMP enabled, raise the multi to 36, level3, change primary timings to 16-16-16-16-32 (all else auto by XMP), 1.4V
3) XMP disabled, raise the multi to 36, change timings to 16-16-16-16-32-48, TRFC 345 or 358, 1.4V

You may try with option 3 to keep XMP enabled but there is a chance that results would be worst that now (XMP 3200). Sometimes at some settings there is a conflict between manual settings and other XMP settings that are on auto leading to large latency penalty. The principal is the more timings you manually set the XMP must be disabled to avoid such latency penalty.

If you have the patience you can try combinations.
Out of experience the 3rd option would return the most performance (XMP enabled/disabled... depends).

There are alot more to tweak in there about memory but these I say are ok for a good start.

I was also wondering whether to "use" XMP when I'm using custom timings and subtimings. Still 3600, obviously, but there are three timings that DRAM calculator doesn't provide, TRCPAGE which doesn't have values, and TRFC2 and TRFC4 which conflicting sources say we either leave them Auto or apply some mathematical formula to derive them from TRFC. With XMP, I just leave them as is and change everything else. Doesn't seem to be any penalties for me once I fill out everything I can, I'm down to 69ns on the dot now.

But XMP also automatically overvolts my sticks a bit past the profile (profile always calls for 1.35v, actually always 1.38-1.4v). But at the same time, if I turn off XMP, it defaults to the JEDEC 1.2v, which can't sustain literally anything. And then when I try to tweak it to 1.35v, often my board just doesn't listen and stays at whatever it wants (1.2v). Gigabyte BIOSes are terrible.

ATM I;m searching to see Where the SoC/Uncore OC is to set it to enabled
As I didn't see it in bios

It's under AMD Overclocking in Peripherals and you have to accept a disclaimer to get to it. But I really don't see why you need anything in that category if you're working on RAM timings.

SoC voltage is just under Advanced Voltage Settings like the Vcore and the rest. What does HWInfo say you're getting for SoC voltage stock, under the board sensors and the SVI2 TFN? Knowing Gigabyte, it's probably already 1.1V. Ryzen DRAM Calculator will tell you the voltage range you want when you work out the timings in the program.

Like Vcore it gives you Normal in addition to Auto as an option, but Normal is quite a bit lower. I put it on Normal and it went all the way down to 0.95v. Was running that for hours without issue, strangely enough, until I realized what I had done.

 

[lorry]

I was also wondering whether to "use" XMP when I'm using custom timings and subtimings. Still 3600, obviously, but there are three timings that DRAM calculator doesn't provide, TRCPAGE which doesn't have values, and TRFC2 and TRFC4 which conflicting sources say we either leave them Auto or apply some mathematical formula to derive them from TRFC. With XMP, I just leave them as is and change everything else. Doesn't seem to be any penalties for me once I fill out everything I can, I'm down to 69ns on the dot now.

But XMP also automatically overvolts my sticks a bit past the profile (profile always calls for 1.35v, actually always 1.38-1.4v). But at the same time, if I turn off XMP, it defaults to the JEDEC 1.2v, which can't sustain literally anything. And then when I try to tweak it to 1.35v, often my board just doesn't listen and stays at whatever it wants (1.2v). Gigabyte BIOSes are terrible.



It's under AMD Overclocking in Peripherals and you have to accept a disclaimer to get to it. But I really don't see why you need anything in that category if you're working on RAM timings.

SoC voltage is just under Advanced Voltage Settings like the Vcore and the rest. What does HWInfo say you're getting for SoC voltage stock, under the board sensors and the SVI2 TFN? Knowing Gigabyte, it's probably already 1.1V. Ryzen DRAM Calculator will tell you the voltage range you want when you work out the timings in the program.

Thank you, TRCPAGE, TRFC2, TRCFC4 were three that I found odd in my bios

I wanted to know where it was as @Zach_01 said to ensure that SoC/Uncore OC was set to enabled

SOC SV12TFN is 1.087 (and last night doing the memtest in Dram Calc it went down to 1.081

DRAM voltage is 1.38 (min 1.356, max 1.392)

 

[tabascosauz]

Hey Lorry,

Does your motherboard have a setting called SenseMi Skew and SenseMi offset by any chance?
If it does, I can help you with an alternative to boosting affects for the cpu.... (After you get your ram sorted out of course)

I'm pretty sure the SenseMI skew was only for temperature purposes on Zen and Zen+, and won't be there for anything for us running a Ryzen 3000 chip (though how much our X470 and B450 BIOSes can hide/show their settings depending on the CPU that's in them is a mystery to me). So much has changed with the Zen 2 generation, I don't think the concept works anymore. Only thing SenseMI related I can think of for Ryzen 3000 is the SenseMI prediction in AMD marketing that was first introduced with the 2000s, some sort of perceptron branch predictor so "neural net" in the loosest possible sense of the word.

In the temperature department, however, ever since HWInfo added the Tdie and CCX temperature readings that read lower than Tctl/Tdie and closer to RM, I wonder if any board vendors will add Tdie to their fan control. As far as I can tell, all boards right now rely on the ol Tctl/Tdie when binding fan speed to CPU. Would seem to have a similar effect to SenseMI skew, if it ever becomes a thing.

 

[lorry]

I was also wondering whether to "use" XMP when I'm using custom timings and subtimings. Still 3600, obviously, but there are three timings that DRAM calculator doesn't provide, TRCPAGE which doesn't have values, and TRFC2 and TRFC4 which conflicting sources say we either leave them Auto or apply some mathematical formula to derive them from TRFC. With XMP, I just leave them as is and change everything else. Doesn't seem to be any penalties for me once I fill out everything I can, I'm down to 69ns on the dot now.

But XMP also automatically overvolts my sticks a bit past the profile (profile always calls for 1.35v, actually always 1.38-1.4v). But at the same time, if I turn off XMP, it defaults to the JEDEC 1.2v, which can't sustain literally anything. And then when I try to tweak it to 1.35v, often my board just doesn't listen and stays at whatever it wants (1.2v). Gigabyte BIOSes are terrible.



It's under AMD Overclocking in Peripherals and you have to accept a disclaimer to get to it. But I really don't see why you need anything in that category if you're working on RAM timings.

SoC voltage is just under Advanced Voltage Settings like the Vcore and the rest. What does HWInfo say you're getting for SoC voltage stock, under the board sensors and the SVI2 TFN? Knowing Gigabyte, it's probably already 1.1V. Ryzen DRAM Calculator will tell you the voltage range you want when you work out the timings in the program.

Like Vcore it gives you Normal in addition to Auto as an option, but Normal is quite a bit lower. I put it on Normal and it went all the way down to 0.95v. Was running that for hours without issue, strangely enough, until I realized what I had done.

The SoC/Uncore OC isn't where you said?
Need to ensure it is set it to enabled

There is only
Dynamic Vcore (DVID)
Dynamic VCORE SOC (DVID)
CPU VDDP
CHIPSET CORE 1.05V
DRAM voltage (CH A/B)
DRAM Termination (CH A/B)

Watch (from 588 secs when he goes through the advanced voltage settings

 

[tabascosauz]

The SoC/Uncore OC isn't where you said?
Need to ensure it is set it to enabled

There is only
Dynamic Vcore (DVID)
Dynamic VCORE SOC (DVID)
CPU VDDP
CHIPSET CORE 1.05V
DRAM voltage (CH A/B)
DRAM Termination (CH A/B)

Watch (from 588 secs when he goes through the advanced voltage settings

Ah. I was thinking of the wrong menu. It's the one next to it called CBS. Once inside, it should be under XFR Enhancement.

Strange that your Advanced Voltage Settings is so poorly featured. What BIOS revision are you running? Mine's been like it is since F42c. Is there a drop-down line once you set SoC to Normal? But anyways, you're getting 1.08v stock which should be plenty.

 

[lorry]

Ah. I was thinking of the wrong menu. It's the one next to it called CBS. Once inside, it should be under XFR Enhancement.

Strange that your Advanced Voltage Settings is so poorly featured. What BIOS revision are you running? Mine's been like it is since F42c. Is there a drop-down line once you set SoC to Normal? But anyways, you're getting 1.08v stock which should be plenty.

F50a AMD Agesa combo-AM 1.0.0.4 11/8/19
The latest on gigabytes site

Ah. I was thinking of the wrong menu. It's the one next to it called CBS. Once inside, it should be under XFR Enhancement.

Strange that your Advanced Voltage Settings is so poorly featured. What BIOS revision are you running? Mine's been like it is since F42c. Is there a drop-down line once you set SoC to Normal? But anyways, you're getting 1.08v stock which should be plenty.

Nope not in that section either

DRAM Termination (CH A/B)There is Customized Precision Boost Overdrive Scaler but nothing called SoC

 

[Deleted member 185158]

I'm pretty sure the SenseMI skew was only for temperature purposes on Zen and Zen+, and won't be there for anything for us running a Ryzen 3000 chip (though how much our X470 and B450 BIOSes can hide/show their settings depending on the CPU that's in them is a mystery to me). So much has changed with the Zen 2 generation, I don't think the concept works anymore. Only thing SenseMI related I can think of for Ryzen 3000 is the SenseMI prediction in AMD marketing that was first introduced with the 2000s, some sort of perceptron branch predictor so "neural net" in the loosest possible sense of the word.

In the temperature department, however, ever since HWInfo added the Tdie and CCX temperature readings that read lower than Tctl/Tdie and closer to RM, I wonder if any board vendors will add Tdie to their fan control. As far as I can tell, all boards right now rely on the ol Tctl/Tdie when binding fan speed to CPU. Would seem to have a similar effect to SenseMI skew, if it ever becomes a thing.

Its not just SenseMi skew there is also the "offset" which is direclty related to overclocking, of course skew may be related to temps but not sure how directly or what difference it would make.
The cpu will boost until it throttles at temp anyhow.

Checked my non ROG boards and they do not have any SenseMi settings at all.

The only way for me to find out about 3000 chips on this board is to get one.
But not ready to spend a lot for a cpu, while Im happy with the 2700x flagship.

Id be willing to temporarily trade someone, but my chip is delidded and would require special attention for mounting. I did not re-glue the IHS plate.

 

[lorry]

Just seen this on a post on overclockers -



Quote: Originally Posted by Robbert Hallock (AMD)

Hi, I work for AMD.
The CPU is programmed to use these voltages automatically. We know it's safe, because we designed it that way. The CPU cannot and does not use voltages that are unsafe for the silicon.
The key thing that people forget in these cases is time and temperature. Running 1.4V or 1.5V here and there is not a big deal, because the CPU will eventually back down according to its pre-programmed model. Or if you have great cooling, that also offsets the thermal effect of voltage. In either case, you're seeing momentary blips of voltage that are offset by the hours per day your CPU is probably doing nothing at all--at a very low voltage.
The average vcore for Ryzen over time is around 1.25V (give or take).
tl;dr: leave the CPU alone, let it do its thing, don't worry.

We designed the CPU to do this.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

That post is made for the general public. It does not apply to myself. Lol.

 

[lorry]

That post is made for the general public. It does not apply to myself. Lol.

I'm no longer concerned about the SV12 TFN voltage
Right now I'm trying to see Where this blinking SoC/Uncore OC is in the gigabyte bios lol

 

[Zach_01]

Setting the SOC/Uncore to Enable as BZ said in videos you disable the power savings of the SOC/IO die. It does not change its voltage. There is a separate setting for voltage and there is no need to alter it at least for now.
While this SOC/Uncore is not essential, it could help when you OC memory/UCLK/FCLK becuase all these 3 subsystems are directly related to SOC.

 

[lorry]

Setting the SOC/Uncore to Enable as BZ said in videos you disable the power savings of the SOC/IO die. It does not change its voltage. There is a separate setting for voltage and there is no need to alter it at least for now.
While this SOC/Uncore is not essential, it could help when you OC memory/UCLK/FCLK becuase all these 3 subsystems are directly related to SOC.

I'd like to just know where it is in the bios, or even If it is a setting in the bios at all, that's all.
Things like that bug me, I know that they shouldn't but they do. Makes me think that I've not checked properly