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Tweak for problems with 5xxx cards in 2d windows mode

Duffman

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#1
Do you have problems in 2d mode (windows desktop)? Vertical lines on your screen? Not happy with your windows experience score for your shiny new 5XXX card?

I was having these issues with my Asus 5870. Very upsetting after paying so much for a new gfx card. my windows experience for gfx went down from 7.4 to 6 after i installed it!! After doing some digging, I deduced that it is due to the ridiculously low clocks the powerplay puts the card into for idle. 157mhz? seriously?

A bios flash might have fixed it but apparently the newer Asus 5870's can't be flashed. Bummer.

I think I found a solution. My windows experience for the gfx is 7.8 after this simple tweak.

I came across this solution that forces the card to idle (2D) at a higher clock. I had to set it to a clock speed that Windows 7 would be happy with. (For me this was 400 when idle, and the stock 850 when running games)

Steps:

1. Open CCC

2. Unlock and Enable Overdrive if they aren’t already.

3. Go to Options/Profiles/Profiles Manager. Create a new profile. Under composition make sure “ATI Overdrive” is checked. Save and Close, DO NOT ACTIVATE.

4. In windows go to: C:\Users\{yourusername}\AppData\Local\ATI\ACE\Profiles (you will need to have “show hidden files” turned on for this)

5. Open the xml document with the name of the profile you just created (notepad is fine)

6. Change the values of the Clock and Memory speeds to look like this (these specific values are what worked for me and my card, use judgment) EDIT ONLY THE BOLD VALUES.



Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0"

Property name="Want_0" value="40000"

Property name="Want_1" value="60000"

Property name="Want_2" value="85000"

Feature

Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0"

Property name="Want_0" value="90000"

Property name="Want_1" value="90000"

Property name="Want_2" value="120000"



7. Save and close. Go back to CCC and activate the profile you just created.


I set mine to 600mhz for the core and 900mhz for the memory. This simple tweak fixed my windows experience score. I am fairly confident that it will also fix my vertical lines in the desktop problem as well.
 

Paulieg

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#2
Hmm. Never experienced this with my Asus card. I'd think that if it's not working correctly without you having to mess with it, then I'd RMA it.
 

Duffman

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#3
Are u running 64bit paulie?
 

Nkkip

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#4
I use the same fix for 2D artifacts on an ASUS 5870. But I find 157 MHz on the GPU (default) and 400 MHz on memory enough to fix them. My config looks like this:

Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0"
Property name="Want_0" value="15700"
Property name="Want_1" value="85000"
Property name="Want_2" value="85000"
Feature
Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0"
Property name="Want_0" value="40000"
Property name="Want_1" value="120000"
Property name="Want_2" value="120000"
Feature
Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_0"
Property name="Want_0" value="950"
Property name="Want_1" value="1063"
Property name="Want_2" value="1163"
Feature

The reason I wanted to flash my bios (with a bios where I adjusted the 2D clocks to the values in my CCC profile) is, the artifacts still show up when I boot into windows. I have to switch themes to clear Windows' buffer. I'm on Windows 7 x64 btw..
 

Helper

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#5
Guys, this doesn't make any sense. The problem lies in somewhere else. Maybe your cards aren't cooled enough, or they are problematic or something different.
Seeing 2D artifacts in Windows Desktop doesn't mean that your card is insufficient for your OS. People run Windows on some onboard graphics which are too weak that are only capable of showing you the desktop with no hardware acceleration at all. ATi Rage in servers anyone?
You guys have HD 5870s and saying that it shows you ARTIFACTS because it's slow? Artifacts don't happen because of a card's slowness. They happen because there is a problem with your hardware or software. Now Windows Exp Score doesn't mean anything. You guys should know that. You have a HD 5870. If I had a HD 2600 at 3D clocks in Windows scoring better then your HD 5870 will it make it faster?

Duff, i don't think that it's related to 32 or 64-Bit OSes either. There is another problem. I don't know what it's, I don't own a Asus HD 5870. But I'm sure it's not related to what you guys talk about.
 

Wile E

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#6
Guys, this doesn't make any sense. The problem lies in somewhere else. Maybe your cards aren't cooled enough, or they are problematic or something different.
Seeing 2D artifacts in Windows Desktop doesn't mean that your card is insufficient for your OS. People run Windows on some onboard graphics which are too weak that are only capable of showing you the desktop with no hardware acceleration at all. ATi Rage in servers anyone?
You guys have HD 5870s and saying that it shows you ARTIFACTS because it's slow? Artifacts don't happen because of a card's slowness. They happen because there is a problem with your hardware or software. Now Windows Exp Score doesn't mean anything. You guys should know that. You have a HD 5870. If I had a HD 2600 at 3D clocks in Windows scoring better then your HD 5870 will it make it faster?

Duff, i don't think that it's related to 32 or 64-Bit OSes either. There is another problem. I don't know what it's, I don't own a Asus HD 5870. But I'm sure it's not related to what you guys talk about.
Underclocking can present a MAJOR problem if the voltages aren't correct. That's why a BIOS update fixes the issue.

This makes perfect sense. It's not the first time ATI has had a Powerplay problem such as this.
 

qubit

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#7
Last edited:

Nkkip

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#8
I'm not saying the card is too slow to run Windows. Of course it isn't. But the fact remains that raising memory clocks fixes the (my) problem. Also, I never touched the voltage of my card.

Edit:
I told CCC to create a desktop shortcut for activating the profile. You can move this shortcut to the Windows startup folder to have it load every time Windows boots.

1. Press start
2. Type "shell:startup"
3. Open that folder and drag the shortcut into the folder.
 

Duffman

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#9
i've seen those threads. I didn't see this fix there. at least not recently.

I believe it has to do with what Wile E mentioned. It's not such a matter of the power it was running at, just that it isn't stable there.
 

Paulieg

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#10
Are u running 64bit paulie?
Yup, Win 7 64 bit, to be exact. I've actually put the card in all 3 of my rigs that have Win 7 installed, and all work perfect.
 

Duffman

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#11
welp, if this fixes my issue, i'd just assume not RMA it.
 

Helper

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#12
Underclocking can present a MAJOR problem if the voltages aren't correct. That's why a BIOS update fixes the issue.

This makes perfect sense. It's not the first time ATI has had a Powerplay problem such as this.
Yeah, they were Powerplay issues but you can't recall that right now.

Doesn't this make any sense to you?

"CoreVoltageTarget_0"
Property name="Want_0" value="950"
Property name="Want_1" value="1063"
Property name="Want_2" value="1163"
A GFX that does core clocks over 850 MHZ around 1.15V can easily do 150 MHZ on it's core at 1V. That's common sense. And the default of the cards. Since not all HD 5870s ARTIFACT on Windows desktop, and these values are set after a period of tests on chips, it can't be because of that.
Let me get this straight, so you guys say that your GPU ARTIFACTS... it's not like it accelerates your desktop slow, like you try to use Windows with Hardware Acceleration and no display drivers installed. Are you guys sure about that? If you see lines&dots on your screen, then it's most likely that you have a problem with it.

I have just read the article that Qubit posted. They assumed that either HD 5870's lacked Direct 2D/DirectDraw acceleration or their low 2D low power clocks slowed down Windows. Neither of those will show you artifacts on your screen guys. But If it really lacks it 2D acceleration, you can encounter slowness from time to time in your daily Windows usage.

I'm not saying the card is too slow to run Windows. Of course it isn't. But the fact remains that raising memory clocks fixes the (my) problem. Also, I never touched the voltage of my card.
Raising your 2D memory clocks won't fix artifacts dude. Your card already has enough memory bandwidth-juice to run your system. Those happen simply because your card is bad or a program causing errors. Believe me it's not like taking 2D clock speeds of a GPU will magically fix artifacts. You should better RMA your cards.
 

Wile E

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#13
Yeah, they were Powerplay issues but you can't recall that right now.

Doesn't this make any sense to you?
2900 series. I know, I had the card. Drivers and/or an updated BIOS fixed it.
I never I said I don't recall, I just figured you had enough sense to Google for yourself.


A GFX that does core clocks over 850 MHZ around 1.15V can easily do 150 MHZ on it's core at 1V. That's common sense. And the default of the cards. Since not all HD 5870s ARTIFACT on Windows desktop, and these values are set after a period of tests on chips, it can't be because of that.
Let me get this straight, so you guys say that your GPU ARTIFACTS... it's not like it accelerates your desktop slow, like you try to use Windows with Hardware Acceleration and no display drivers installed. Are you guys sure about that? If you see lines&dots on your screen, then it's most likely that you have a problem with it.

I have just read the article that Qubit posted. They assumed that either HD 5870's lacked Direct 2D/DirectDraw acceleration or their low 2D low power clocks slowed down Windows. Neither of those will show you artifacts on your screen guys. But If it really lacks it 2D acceleration, you can encounter slowness from time to time in your daily Windows usage.



Raising your 2D memory clocks won't fix artifacts dude. Your card already has enough memory bandwidth-juice to run your system. Those happen simply because your card is bad or a program causing errors. Believe me it's not like taking 2D clock speeds of a GPU will magically fix artifacts. You should better RMA your cards.
Having too much voltage for a low clock can cause just as many problems as having not enough voltage at a high clock. Proven fact. I take it you have never tried to do any serious underclocking, because if you had, you would know this.
 

qubit

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#14
I have just read the article that Qubit posted. They assumed that either HD 5870's lacked Direct 2D/DirectDraw acceleration or their low 2D low power clocks slowed down Windows. Neither of those will show you artifacts on your screen guys. But If it really lacks it 2D acceleration, you can encounter slowness from time to time in your daily Windows usage.
The grey screeen of death one is particularly relevant. Did you read that one?

To me, it seems that all these various crashes and glitches have the same underlying cause. I suspect that it might be a combination of hardware and software issues, but don't quote me on this.
 

Helper

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#15
The grey screeen of death one is particularly relevant. Did you read that one?

To me, it seems that all these various crashes and glitches have the same underlying cause. I suspect that it might be a combination of hardware and software issues, but don't quote me on this.
Yep, I read that too. It could be connected to that aswell BUT these guys say that they see artifacts on their desktop. Overall, I think theirs cards are just bad.

2900 series. I know, I had the card. Drivers and/or an updated BIOS fixed it.
I never I said I don't recall, I just figured you had enough sense to Google for yourself.

Having too much voltage for a low clock can cause just as many problems as having not enough voltage at a high clock. Proven fact. I take it you have never tried to do any serious underclocking, because if you had, you would know this.
Can you elaborate your issue with the HD 2900? I don't need to Google it dude. I've already read that some HD 4800 series cards did it sometime
ago but you need to look at this first

http://img.techpowerup.org/100207/Photo-00012653.jpg

I had 2 more of those but I just couldn't find them right now. And none of those did what you said. I've spent a whole summer messing with those.

They never screwed up on me on 2D. They always went from 1 to 1.15V like how they're supposed to do it. AND I've also done some serious underclocking on them, near the OC that I did to them. They went from 850 MHZ in 3D with 1.25 V, a whooping 250 Watts and 100 C at Furmark down to 250 MHZ on the core with 1V. I was doing it because they were idling around 60 degrees. My mobile air conditioner was unable to drop the room to anything more then 25C. Cards were working as a damn heater. ATi's fiasco as you see. But I never knew they showed problems on Windows Desktop. Even though I underclocked them with 1V. I don't know what you are talking about. I only had problems when I tried 850 core on 2 or 3 of the cards out of 6. And you can ask me anything about R600. I know a lot because I tested all of them first hand.

Anyway, those volts and clocks are DEFAULT for HD 5870. I don't know any other HD 5870s doing the same thing. I wrote this off on my previous post. The OP's card is prolly defective. That's all I'm going to say.
 

qubit

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#16
Yep, I read that too. It could be connected to that aswell BUT these guys say that they see artifacts on their desktop. Overall, I think theirs cards are just bad.
Yeah, you're probably right.
 

Wile E

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#17
Yep, I read that too. It could be connected to that aswell BUT these guys say that they see artifacts on their desktop. Overall, I think theirs cards are just bad.



Can you elaborate your issue with the HD 2900? I don't need to Google it dude. I've already read that some HD 4800 series cards did it sometime
ago but you need to look at this first

http://img.techpowerup.org/100207/Photo-00012653.jpg

I had 2 more of those but I just couldn't find them right now. And none of those did what you said. I've spent a whole summer messing with those.

They never screwed up on me on 2D. They always went from 1 to 1.15V like how they're supposed to do it. AND I've also done some serious underclocking on them, near the OC that I did to them. They went from 850 MHZ in 3D with 1.25 V, a whooping 250 Watts and 100 C at Furmark down to 250 MHZ on the core with 1V. I was doing it because they were idling around 60 degrees. My mobile air conditioner was unable to drop the room to anything more then 25C. Cards were working as a damn heater. ATi's fiasco as you see. But I never knew they showed problems on Windows Desktop. Even though I underclocked them with 1V. I don't know what you are talking about. I only had problems when I tried 850 core on 2 or 3 of the cards out of 6. And you can ask me anything about R600. I know a lot because I tested all of them first hand.

Anyway, those volts and clocks are DEFAULT for HD 5870. I don't know any other HD 5870s doing the same thing. I wrote this off on my previous post. The OP's card is prolly defective. That's all I'm going to say.
I used to get artifacts on my desktop with my 2900. Artifacts were really bad in web browsers when scrolling. The voltage was too high for the 2D clocks. If I either lowered 2D voltage or raised 2D clocks, the problem went away. Card was not defective, and still works to this very day, and also clocks to 925 stable.

And down to 250 on 1V still doesn't compare to how far these 5xxx series cards underclock for 2D.

The fact that numerous people are having this problem shows that it's not the OP's card being defective. If changing the 2D profiles works for all these people, then it's obviously not defective hardware, and is a BIOS or software issue.
 

Helper

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#18
I used to get artifacts on my desktop with my 2900. Artifacts were really bad in web browsers when scrolling. The voltage was too high for the 2D clocks. If I either lowered 2D voltage or raised 2D clocks, the problem went away. Card was not defective, and still works to this very day, and also clocks to 925 stable.

And down to 250 on 1V still doesn't compare to how far these 5xxx series cards underclock for 2D.

The fact that numerous people are having this problem shows that it's not the OP's card being defective. If changing the 2D profiles works for all these people, then it's obviously not defective hardware, and is a BIOS or software issue.
What I'm saying is, I've never heard of such issue with a HD 2900 up to today. You could be right. Your card did that and you fixed it by changing clocks. Yes, that may be right. But it's only your card. No other R600 that I knew or heard screwed up at it's stock clocks&voltages in 2D.

925 is a very-high clock. How do you cool it dude, with how much voltage? Is it an ES? I'm curious about that.

Yeah, of course HD 5870's idle power consumption-power management is insane. HD 2900 is a joke when you compare to it.

I don't know of any other people having artifacts on their desktops with HD 5870s other then these two guys either. And I didn't hear OP saying changing 2D profiles fixed it. I'm still keen on saying that it's a card issue.
 

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#19
What I'm saying is, I've never heard of such issue with a HD 2900 up to today. You could be right. Your card did that and you fixed it by changing clocks. Yes, that may be right. But it's only your card. No other R600 that I knew or heard screwed up at it's stock clocks&voltages in 2D.

925 is a very-high clock. How do you cool it dude, with how much voltage? Is it an ES? I'm curious about that.

Yeah, of course HD 5870's idle power consumption-power management is insane. HD 2900 is a joke when you compare to it.

I don't know of any other people having artifacts on their desktops with HD 5870s other then these two guys either. And I didn't hear OP saying changing 2D profiles fixed it. I'm still keen on saying that it's a card issue.
Water cooling and 1.35V. lol.

And I know of at least 2 other people in real life, that had the same issue as me.

And the OP hasn't come back to say his artifacts are still there, and nkkip also said it fixed his problem. That says it's fixed to me.
 

Nkkip

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#20


An example of the artifacts the card shows. These all disappear when I raise memory clocks a little. Havn't tried lowering the voltage, will try tomorrow morning.

Even though this seems to work, I am going to return the card. Still having trouble flashing the BIOS.
 

Helper

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#21
And I know of at least 2 other people in real life, that had the same issue as me.

And the OP hasn't come back to say his artifacts are still there, and nkkip also said it fixed his problem. That says it's fixed to me.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5209/artifacts.png

An example of the artifacts the card shows. These all disappear when I raise memory clocks a little. Havn't tried lowering the voltage, will try tomorrow morning.

Even though this seems to work, I am going to return the card. Still having trouble flashing the BIOS.
I don't see any artifacts in there man. Can you take a physical shot of your monitor next time?

Wile, I don't know. We still couldn't understand it.

Duff also needs to come back to clear this up.

...
 

Wile E

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#22
I don't see any artifacts in there man. Can you take a physical shot of your monitor next time?

Wile, I don't know. We still couldn't understand it.

Duff also needs to come back to clear this up.

...
All those little blueish-green dots ARE the artifacts.
 
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#23
All those little blueish-green dots ARE the artifacts.
Is that a screenshot? If so, its definately graphics card memory related. Because artifacts from GPU side don't show up on SS.
 

Helper

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#24
All those little blueish-green dots ARE the artifacts.
Sorry man I have my CRT's brightness turned all the way down. My eyes are hurt at midnight so you can imagine it. I just turned it up and saw all the blue dots between blue background.

We still don't know why it happens.

Nkkip, your card is artifacting at it's default clocks. YOUR HD 5870, not any other. There is a problem with it and you may not just go on and change your clocks-voltages to keep it running. It's doing it AT STOCK. Think of RMAing it seriously, please...
 

Wile E

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#25
Is that a screenshot? If so, its definately graphics card memory related. Because artifacts from GPU side don't show up on SS.
And he said raising his memory clock fixed it. lol.