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Two 760's SLI or one 780? Not like the other threads.

Discussion in 'NVIDIA' started by pabloottawa, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Aithos

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    I understand that, the point was he was saying that at higher resolutions the 760 would make up ground vs a 780. That's not true, even at higher resolutions 1440/1600 (which is what he quoted) you won't see any real improvement from 3gb on a 780 to 4gb on a 760, he was implying (incorrectly) that because he has two cards that gives him an advantage. It doesn't. A second card does not scale perfectly, and you add in the driver and SLI issues and you still aren't better off with two 760s than a 780 classified...which was my point in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  2. FX-GMC

    FX-GMC

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    That was an "in case you missed it" post. Since you didn't, no further replies were necessary.
     
  3. Aithos

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    I wanted to make sure what I was saying was clear, the only way to do that was to reply...
     
  4. FX-GMC

    FX-GMC

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    I understand. I specifically worded my post so it would be clear I wasn't disagreeing with your post in general. I failed.
     
  5. Aithos

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    It's all good, I posted because not posting leaves it open to interpretation whether I overlooked that or not. I wanted it clear that I didn't, so we're good, no disagreement here :p
     
  6. pabloottawa

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    Still the fact remains there is no benchmark comparing 2 760s in SLI to one GTX 780...... Aithos, you can argue your point all you want, like my point they are just words but I'll bet you a beer next time I'm in your neck of the woods that 2 760s in SLI will blow away one 780 at higher resolutions using my system specs.

    EDIT*

    I have not yet found a benchmark test with my system specs but this youtube vid seems to get my point across. Check out 09:11 in the vid

     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  7. Aithos

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    I've actually seen several benchmarks comparing 760SLI to a 780. Unfortunately, most of them are using custom 760s and pitting them against stock reference 780s so it's not really a good comparison. The 760s in that particular benchmark that were running custom against reference only won by something like 20% on average and I can tell you right now an EVGA classified that's been overclocked to 1300mhz (which is well within it's grasp) will beat two custom 760s in SLI. If nothing else it'll win because you can overclock it as far as possible and the extra CUDA cores mean that every percent you overclock is more effective than with the 760. Also, like I mentioned, your overclocking is limited by temperature because the top card will always run around 10 degrees hotter even at stock speeds because it chokes on the bottom cards heat even in a decent case.

    I'll check out that video when I get home, I can't currently, but I can see in the title that it's a price/performance comparison. I don't care about price/performance, I care about performance. An EVGA 760 is $250ish, an EVGA 780 classified is $550ish, that's close enough in price that even if the 760s *were* somehow slightly better than the overclocked 780 I would still take the single card solution because it's simpler, better heat, less noise AND you can still get another card later..on the used market if nothing else.
     
  8. pabloottawa

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    Nope. They are reference to reference so no beefing up or customization on any side of the benchmarking table... On all fronts the 760s in SLI beat the 780.

    I think i remember watching this vid when I first posted this thread. It is what made me decide to take the leap and with 4 GB on-board VRAM EACH (which I knew was not stackable BEFORE you said anything in case you missed it). these cards are pretty ballsy and better than one GTX 780. That was my argument and I'll keep searching for a benchmark with my specs but for now it seems I WON lol...

    Just bugging you dude ;)
     
  9. Aithos

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    You don't have to win, like I said before it was your money and your decision, as long as you're happy I don't care what you do. I'm just making my point because other people use these threads (and forums) to make decisions and your posts will also affect how they spend *their* money. Reference vs reference is all well and good, but that isn't what I was trying to get at. Your cards in SLI will not be able to overclock like an EVGA 780 classified. So it's not an even comparison, the EVGA will have a lot higher gains than you even if you overclock both your cards for a couple reasons:

    1) The heat thing I've mentioned a couple times. If you got custom coolers (I haven't seen you mention if you got blowers or open air) then your cards will not clock much higher than whatever their stock is.

    2) The EVGA 780 classified is a custom PCB that not only has a great cooler, but allows you to overvolt without a bios flash AND tends to be the consensus best overclocking card of the entire lineup. The average card can clock to 1300 and a golden chip can go to 1400 without running water. That's a tremendous gain.

    I said this before so I'm repeating myself now, but a 780 classified at 1300mhz core clock will beat your SLI 760s. The reference speeds lose to your cards, but I'm not talking about reference speeds, I'm talking about a monster overclock from a single card. Which even if it lost or broke even, is still preferable because you don't have the SLI issue. Not every game gets the same performance boost from SLI, drivers are a lot more up and down with SLI, you can run into bugs or frame pacing issues with SLI.

    With all that being said, SLI 760s is still a great setup, I'm running SLI 780ti's, I'm not dogging SLI. I'm just saying that you could have gotten similar or better performance, for the same price, with less issues and a better upgrade path. That's it. I'm not trying to thrash you for your choice, I'm really ok with you doing what you want. I just want other people to know that most people would have gone with the 780 and not the SLI setup.

    Some people just like the look of two cards, it's pretty badass seeing it through the window. I've said it several times already, but I'm honestly glad you like your setup, it's a killer setup no matter what I think the better choice is. So just be happy with them and we can move on :p
     
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  10. pabloottawa

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    "I just want other people to know that most people would have gone with the 780 and not the SLI setup."

    The bottom line here is budget. For those who don't care about money then by all means get 2 titans if you want but if you're looking for a solid, future proof setup that is badass and AFFORDABLE, go for 2 Gigabyte 4gb 760's they actually clock higher than an EVGA 780 classified with the only drawback being fewer CUDA cores and yes they will blow any single GTX 780 contrary to what my esteemed colleague claims. Might I also point out that Aithos's claim has yet to be backed up or corroborated.

    In the interest of educating those who are on the fence about getting 2 760s or just one 780, I think it's safe to say that 2 760s in SLI will beat a 780. Many review sites have confirmed this but don't take my word for it, GOOGLE it.
     
  11. BarbaricSoul

    BarbaricSoul

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    Of course two 760 cards beat a 780. Hell they beat a 780ti with an OC. And in the short run, they are less expensive. But, you're missing one important point, you have no upgrade patch. All you can do is use the 760 cards until they are no longer adequate and then basically scrap them. Plus, games have to be set-up to run SLI, they don't just automagically use more than one card. At least with SLI, you don't have to manually install the SLI profiles like you do with crossfire. As for your benchmark request-

    [​IMG]
     
    Crunching for Team TPU
  12. Aithos

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    You know, not even worth it anymore. You can think what you want, the google doc with all the valley benchmarks sorted by video card was removed so I can't show you the 780 classified OC scores.

    If you think no upgrade path, SLI scaling issues, extra system heat and all the driver updates/problems is worth it then fine. I don't. Even if the 760s are slightly better than a 780 classified at 1300mhz core speed, it's the same price, you didn't save any money and you cut off your upgrade path completely and only added complexity to your setup.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  13. pabloottawa

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    The bottom line is what it is... I saved a ton of money and I didn't cut off anything.... I will upgrade whatever I want whenever I want. I saved over 100 dollars and got TWO very good cards out of it. I can sell them down the road and do WHATEVER WHENEVER.

    I argued facts, I posted reference to those facts Aithos and you haven't. That's a little smug considering the bold claims you make. I don't mind being told I made a bad decision but I do mind being told this by someone who can't even back up their claims. If anything, your argument re-enforces my position.

    You're happy with your set up and that's fine. I think you just threw money out the window just to have the most kick ass system and bragging rights but hey, that's my opinion right? And like your opinion, they are just words... Until you back it up.

    Now here's what you don't get.... It was worth it.

    This debate has given a lot of people a good amount of insight into making the right decision with regards to *2 GTX 760's Vs one GTX 780* So thank You Aithos. ;)
     
  14. Aithos

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    You haven't posted facts, you posted a video comparing reference cards. That isn't even close to relative to the post. As I said in my last post, I can't post comparisons because the google docs spreadsheet that had everyone's ungine valley scores sorted by video card is GONE. Whoever was managing it either deleted their account or the spreadsheet and it was the only one I've seen where I could have given you scores from a system exactly like yours and someone running a similar setup with a 780 classified overclocked heavily. I've seen the numbers, I know what they are, but it wasn't my document and I never would have thought to save it myself.

    You're also somehow delusional if you think you saved a bunch of money. Two 760s is the same price as a 780, so you didn't save over $100, you saved nothing. There isn't anything smug about my comments, you have gone against conventional wisdom by countless people that says get the single most powerful card you can because it's better than running a SLI setup. Now you're upset because I'm trashing your decision? It was YOUR choice to go against conventional wisdom, you've repeatedly ignored my points (the added complexity, the heat, the drivers, the scaling issues) AND that I pointed it that even if the performance was slightly better it's not worth those tradeoffs.

    What can your two cards do that a single 780 classified couldn't? You probably run at 1080p, the answer is NOTHING. It doesn't make a real world difference in any way shape or form. You did it because for whatever reason you think SLI is awesome, and that's fine. I don't care. But don't sit here and tell me you've backed your argument up with facts when you haven't backed up anything and you have yet to address any of the cons of SLI that I've pointed out.

    Oh, and I went with two 780ti's because I'm running 1440p @ 110hz and to max settings at that resolution and framerate you need that kind of power in AAA titles. I don't care what people think of my machine, I don't overclock heavily, I don't benchmark and I don't care one bit about "bragging rights". I bought what I could afford and would accomplish what I wanted out of my system, nothing more and nothing less. You're entitled to your opinion, I don't care what you think about my system.

    You're right about one thing though, this thread will give people insight, they will see someone who desperately wants to justify his purchase to a stranger on the internet because he made the opposite choice everyone was telling him to.

    Edit: Oh, and lol at upgrading whenever you want. Go ahead, it's a huge waste of money, you won't get close to purchase price for your cards and adding a third 760 is beyond pointless. You completely cut off your upgrade path when you went with the 4th best GPU in NVIDIA's lineup instead of any of the top 3.
     
  15. pabloottawa

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    "You haven't posted facts, you posted a video comparing reference cards."

    Yup and those are facts..... As it stands, you have no facts that back up your claim and calling no fair just because you don't have a bunch of spread sheets? Really????

    Your argument is that 2 GTX 760's in SLI CANNOT beat a GTX 780.... Prove it, show me a benchmark video, a review, a benchmark SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE and I'll believe you but you just keep arguing semantics and false claims. There's NO PROOF to back up what you're saying, NONE.


    "That isn't even close to relative to the post"

    The post is:

    Two 760's SLI or one 780?


    So you see, it IS relative to the Thread..... That's my intention. That was the whole point of this thread.


    "Two 760s is the same price as a 780, so you didn't save over $100, you saved nothing."

    I have the receipts.. I know what I saved. If you want me to email you a copy of them PM me.



    As for the upgrading, not even gonna go there. You've skewed this thread enough.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  16. pabloottawa

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    There is no "scrapping", at least not with me. I sell the cards and get new ones.... There's always a buyer. It's no big deal and I don't know why everyone thinks it is... Use the cards for a year or maybe 18 months and sell them. You stay current, you end up buying your next card(s) at a great discount due to the money you received from your used cards and it's done.... That's how I do it and it's worked great so far so if you guys are scrapping your cards when they become obsolete (I really hope not) then you really are throwing money away.
     
  17. Aithos

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    So your "proof" is a video comparing a pair of reference 760s to a reference 780 when the discussion is not about reference cards? Right.

    Also: 760 reference - $250, $260-$275 for aftermarket, 780 reference $499, $510-550 for aftermarket. You were told price cuts were coming and refused to wait for two weeks until the AMD cards launched to buy. You can't compare the old 780 price to what you spent because we told you they would be going down and you disregarded that piece of advice too. So you paid the same (or more) as you could have gotten with the 780, AND you didn't get the better game bundle.

    You want proof, fine, here you go, direct quote doing a comparison of 1, 2 and 3 way SLI with 760, 770 and 780:

    Feel free to read the article: http://us.hardware.info/reviews/463...ew-geforce-gtx-760770780-in-sli-and-3-way-sli

    I pulled the direct quote out of the conclusion. Feel free to look at any of the numbers though, I'm sure you know better than people who review hardware for a living and everyone else who gave you a recommendation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  18. pabloottawa

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    Thank you that's all I needed to know that next time I'll just buy one honking huge card.... See??? Was that so hard?
     
  19. Aithos

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    Yes, it was hard. I spent hours looking for those stupid benchmarks and articles I had seen because I read half a dozen tech sites on a daily basis and I can't always remember which one I was on. I frequent several tech forums as well and I don't always post links, so even if I'm talking about something I read I don't always have it handy. In some cases, like with the spreadsheet, I remember the stupid numbers but it got taken down...so even though I went to the two ungine valley threads I've looked at I recently I couldn't post what I had seen. I couldn't remember where this stupid SLI article was, instead of fighting me tooth and nail you could have just accepted what I was trying to say.

    I wasn't trying to be a dick, and I wasn't trying to insult you. I meant it when I said that as long as you're happy with your cards I'm glad for you and it doesn't matter. The performance is still close, and at 1080p there isn't anything a 780 can do that your setup can't, it's just a matter of simplicity. One card is easier than two, and a lot of people don't upgrade and mess with selling hardware every year because it depreciates so fast and the gains just aren't big enough, so the people who do it are doing it because they want to..not because they have to.

    At any rate, it doesn't matter, I was just making a point :p
     
  20. pabloottawa

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    I do agree that one card is simpler than 2 and at the time I was looking for every excuse to NOT buy 2 cards but in the end shelling out over 100 dollars more for one card and just a *bit* more performance was not worth it... FOR ME.

    This is why I made my choice and I'm still glad I did. Perhaps next time I'll have a little more disposable income to indulge in a setup similar to yours.

    Besides, it's winter and my 2 cards are keeping my office nice and warm :D
     
  21. Aithos

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    LOL. There is always that. I went a little overboard with my rig this time, I got a new job 3.5 years ago (just 6 months after I built my last machine) and along with the new gig came a sizable raise. So I'd been waiting very patiently for the past 4 years to build the machine I always wanted but couldn't afford. I was still going to do a single GPU (780) until I got reading about the Korean monitor and decided "what the hell" and went all out. This is the first time I've ever spent more than $350 on a GPU.

    At any rate, I hope there are no hard feelings. I really didn't mean to give you such a hard time, I was just getting frustrated because I couldn't find those articles :(
     
  22. pabloottawa

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    HAHA.. I enjoyed calling you out...

    The thing is, on forums there are so many pseudo intellects who think they are Gods gift to nerds and as a result are too condescending or self absorbed to think that their words and their claims are not enough so when I come across a post like "hate to be a downer but..." I immediately think "this guy is a dick!!!" and challenge him/her.

    There are no hard feelings but I've been in your situation where I felt the person did not make the wisest choice and let him know... In your case I would have started all this with;

    "I was in your shoes a few months back when I built my new rig and found a few articles that claim a 780 to be more powerful than 2 760's in SLI on a 1920x1080 setup. I'll see if i can find it again but that article convinced me to go with the 780's insead of the 760's"

    It's less intrusive and gets the reader more interested in what you're saying with a greater chance that they will see your point of view sooner and with less effort.

    So yes, no hard feelings

    :toast:
     
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  23. Aithos

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    That has to be one of the more constructive posts I've ever seen. I agree I didn't handle it very well, a lot of times when I'm typing I have a thought I'm trying to articulate and the words just come out entirely the wrong way and this was definitely one of those times. I should have taken more time to word it better. I've also run into plenty of people who thought they knew what they were talking about and were dead wrong, some people can be very adamant in their opinions, so I understand why you might not have trusted me at face value. I sometimes forget that a lot of people aren't the same age as me (33) and so might not think the same things are conventional wisdom.

    Anyway, thanks for being a good sport about it, I appreciate that this thread never devolved into a straight flame war or name calling contest.:toast:
     
    pabloottawa says thanks.
  24. XSI

    XSI

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    and trust me this is BULLS**T :) this is one of the worst tech sites advises, but, you need to check the benchmarks, if result are the same, take 1 card. if its about 10% i think one card still. but if either price difference or results are more then 20%, i would go for sli
    few examples in my country (~half a year ago) 2x650ti boost price was ~370$ 680 was about 450$. in this situation is just nonsense to go for 680.
     
  25. pabloottawa

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    Well when I read the benchmark scores, in every benchmark, 2 760s were consistently beating one 780 so I'm confused as to why the author would say that it's better to have one GTX 780 than two GTX 760s..... Syncronization and micro stutter are just that. MICRO. Why would the author place more importance on this Vs the benchmark scores? That to me is odd.
     

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