Unable to get system stable when ram is at 3600mhz

[tabascosauz]

@travva that's the one. Couldn't remember the name lol. Ryzen idles at low voltage (0.2V or lower) with that setting enabled. Can be an issue on some systems. You aren't losing performance with it turned to Typical.

 

[moproblems99]

What specifically am I looking for here? I just see that thread is super long. Do you just mean read through it entirely or?

If you can run it at 3200 with no problems then technically your stuff is all fine. Nothing over 3200 is guaranteed. Of the three chips that I have personally handled, only 1 would even boot with ram set over 3200.

 

[biffzinker]

If not, was it MSI at least?

I think was with the MSI B350 Gaming mATX.

 

[travva]

So I just had a strange thing happen. I fired up PUBG and suddenly my system shut down. This time though, it did not restart. I then noticed on my UPS (which is also new) that it beeped twice, repeatedly in maybe 30 second intervals. I had this multiplug plugged in and I saw the protected light going off and on. So, the point is, do you think this is a completely separate issue or could it possibly be related? Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?

 

[Deleted member 193596]

so many posts about this crap software...

dram calculator is literally a list of timings from people who "claimed" (without any proof) that timings XY on THEIR Ram Kit and THEIR CPU on THEIR Motherboard posts.


this software is complete garbage and barely functional at all. (in my case 3 kits on two CPU and two motherboards never even posted even with the safe preset.)

 

[biffzinker]

Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?

Best guess from me is that surge suppressor has a low current trip. What happens without it plugged in?

 

[tabascosauz]

So I just had a strange thing happen. I fired up PUBG and suddenly my system shut down. This time though, it did not restart. I then noticed on my UPS (which is also new) that it beeped twice, repeatedly in maybe 30 second intervals. I had this multiplug plugged in and I saw the protected light going off and on. So, the point is, do you think this is a completely separate issue or could it possibly be related? Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?

If the UPS is a UPS and not a three legged alien from Mars, it shouldn't be affecting your PC in any way if your PC is protected by it. That is, as long as you're not plugging the multiplug into the UPS or the multiplug into the surge protector, both of which shouldn't be done.

A split second brownout isn't something you'll be oblivious to, if your PC isn't protected by a UPS. Many times I've had those prior to getting my APC BR1500MS, and often times the comp would blackscreen for the half-second brown/blackout then be right back to business as if nothing happened as soon as the power came back. Longer blackouts and the PC would obvious shut off, PSU hold-up time is not that good. Definitely wasn't good practice, but you get the idea.

All in all, I don't think this is the culprit behind your WHEA errors. Best course of action would be to get in contact with AMD and open an RMA. In the best case, MSI puts out its final 1.1.0.0. BIOS next week and it fixes your problem and you can call off the RMA, no harm no foul.

 

[travva]

Best guess from me is that surge suppressor has a low current trip. What happens without it plugged in?

Dunno but I took the thing i posted the picture of out of the loop as it was only there due to me being lazy. My pc happens to be in my living room and there's lots of stuff plugged into the ups/backup and I haven't noticed any issues otherwise. My google wifi and tv are plugged into it and my internet doesn't drop nor does my tv ever have any issues. I do see that this backup uses simulated sine wave output and though I don't know what that really means, I recall seeing that mentioned in the past in regards to PSU's. You think that could potentially be causing issues? I never thought for a minute that maybe this ups is the problem but maybe?

If the UPS is a UPS and not a three legged alien from Mars, it shouldn't be affecting your PC in any way if your PC is protected by it. That is, as long as you're not plugging the multiplug into the UPS or the multiplug into the surge protector, both of which shouldn't be done.

What do you mean here? Do you mean having the UPS plugged into the thing I posted the picture of is probably a bad idea?

so many posts about this crap software...

dram calculator is literally a list of timings from people who "claimed" (without any proof) that timings XY on THEIR Ram Kit and THEIR CPU on THEIR Motherboard posts.


this software is complete garbage and barely functional at all. (in my case 3 kits on two CPU and two motherboards never even posted even with the safe preset.

My post really has nothing to do with "this crap software" Maybe you should consider that if people rant and rave about this software and you've had zero success with it, maybe that's a you problem and not dram calculator problem? Regardless, my post really has very little to do with it, and especially not in a negative sense.

 

[tabascosauz]

Dunno but I took the thing i posted the picture of out of the loop as it was only there due to me being lazy. My pc happens to be in my living room and there's lots of stuff plugged into the ups/backup and I haven't noticed any issues otherwise. My google wifi and tv are plugged into it and my internet doesn't drop nor does my tv ever have any issues. I do see that this backup uses simulated sine wave output and though I don't know what that really means, I recall seeing that mentioned in the past in regards to PSU's. You think that could potentially be causing issues? I never thought for a minute that maybe this ups is the problem but maybe?



What do you mean here? Do you mean having the UPS plugged into the thing I posted the picture of is probably a bad idea?

Yeah, that's not something you're supposed to do...

The UPS incorporates surge suppression and AVR functions. It doesn't need something else to do that. If the current into the UPS is reduced/affected by the surge suppressor activating, I'm not sure how exactly the UPS will react.

Use the suppressor / the non-battery ports on the UPS for non essential stuff (desk lamp, table fan) that you want OFF in event of bad electricity supply. Use the battery ports on the UPS for essential things that you want ON. Don't mix the two together, either through plugging the UPS into the surge suppressor or vice versa.

 

[OC-Ghost]

Is that a reflection in the plug picture or is it melted on the back side? (small warning: Amazon basics might not be quality stuff)

Have you tried CL18 because your ryzen dram calc & zen timings says CL16, but your ram kit is rated at 3600 CL18 ?

 

[travva]

Is that a reflection in the plug picture or is it melted on the back side? (small warning: Amazon basics might not be quality stuff)

Have you tried CL18 because your ryzen dram calc & zen timings says CL16, but your ram kit is rated at 3600 CL18 ?

It's a reflection lol, but you're right about that stuff not being quality.
Yeah, well, I haven't manually but as I said before the ram passes tests when either of the XMP profiles are used so I don't think that's a problem.

@tabascosauz after my (hopefully fixed and unrelated) power issue, I put the SOC voltage up to 1.1.

 

[Noreng]

From your HWiNFO picture on the previous page, the memory temperature sensors reports DIMM slot 2 and 3. Did you put your memory sticks next to each other?
In case you did put the memory sticks next to each other, read the manual.

 

[tabascosauz]

snip

Did you...set some timings manually according to DRAM Calc's recommendations? tRFC is not supposed to be the same as tRFC2 and tRFC4...

They have a set relationship with each other but generally you can just set tRFC and let the board take care of the rest. Leave the other two on Auto.

For reference (not for comparison, I have Hynix DJR instead of Micron Rev.E like you):


Hence why I caution about taking DRAM Calc as gospel; for many different reasons, a lot of what it contains should only be considered as a passing suggestion, if that. For example, procODT and the CADBUS settings (Clkdrvstrength, addrcmddrvstrength, etc.) should only be changed if you have trouble booting or achieving stability and have exhausted your other options. Those settings don't really exist on a scale, they either work or don't, and along with some of the minor tertiaries should be left alone if everything's working properly.

From your HWiNFO picture on the previous page, the memory temperature sensors reports DIMM slot 2 and 3. Did you put your memory sticks next to each other?
In case you did put the memory sticks next to each other, read the manual.

Mine always display as [2] and [3]. That's just how the software interprets things. It's not like the DIMM slots are numbered 1/2/3/4 in any motherboard ever anyways, usually A1/B1/A2/B2...

"Read the manual"? Couldn't even be bothered to explain to him why? lmao perhaps take your own advice regarding HWInfo?

 

[travva]

Did you...set some timings manually according to DRAM Calc's recommendations? tRFC is not supposed to be the same as tRFC2 and tRFC4...

They have a set relationship with each other but generally you can just set tRFC and let the board take care of the rest. Leave the other two on Auto.

For reference (not for comparison, I have Hynix DJR instead of Micron Rev.E like you):
View attachment 173565

Hence why I caution about taking DRAM Calc as gospel; for many different reasons, a lot of what it contains should only be considered as a passing suggestion, if that. For example, procODT and the CADBUS settings (Clkdrvstrength, addrcmddrvstrength, etc.) should only be changed if you have trouble booting or achieving stability and have exhausted your other options. Those settings don't really exist on a scale, they either work or don't, and along with some of the minor tertiaries should be left alone if everything's working properly.



Mine always display as [2] and [3]. That's just how the software interprets things. It's not like the DIMM slots are numbered 1/2/3/4 in any motherboard ever anyways, usually A1/B1/A2/B2...

"Read the manual"? Couldn't even be bothered to explain to him why? lmao perhaps take your own advice regarding HWInfo?

I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.

 

[biffzinker]

I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.

View attachment 173566

I see Gear Down Mode is still disabled. Have you tried even number timings such as 16-18-18-18 with Gear Down Mode enabled?

Here's a quick overview of what happens with QDM actived.

So AMD came up with 'Gear Down Mode' which is sort of like 1.5T. It's more compatible than 1T, less compatible than 2T, and sits in the middle in terms of performance penalty. One of the consequences of 'Gear Down Mode' is that tCL timings are rounded up to the nearest even number. Odd numbers don't work. If you really really want to run tight timings, disabling gear down mode is an option - but it's up to you to decide if that's the best option-whether you'll see a performance benefit vs clocking higher isn't for me to say.
Gear Down Mode is by default set to 'Auto' and if the memory is clocked higher than 2666, the motherboard will enable it automatically.

&

Here is what AMD said about GDM and BankGroupSwap:

Most gamers should disable BankGroupSwap. You should also disable GearDownMode if the memory overclock is already stable with a 1T command rate. As with any settings, your mileage may vary.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ryzen/comments/aemfto

 

[tabascosauz]

I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.

I've professed enough times my dislike of users importing XMP into DRAM Calc instead of just taking the software's general recommended profiles instead by using a PCB Revision other than Manual, so I won't do it again. Seeing as DRAM isn't really the main issue here, I'd play it safe by:

• Leaving tRFC at whatever is recommended, but changing tRFC2 and tRFC4 to Auto
• Running HCI (enough parallel instances to fill up the RAM while leaving ~2GB for Windows) just to make sure your Karhu settings aren't missing anything
• Leaving GDM on just to be safe
• Leaving procODT on Auto if you're up for it

Then focusing attention on trying to eliminate the cache WHEA errors through changing settings / waiting for a BIOS update / setting up RMA with AMD. Perhaps try the Typical Current Idle settings and testing some fixed frequency / fixed voltage lower speed overclocks (e.g. 3.6-4.0GHz) if you feel comfortable, to see if it changes anything.

Generally, 3600 16-x-x profiles will require GDM. 3600 17-x-x and 18-x-x might be able to get away with GDM disabled more consistently. Basically above a certain speed / tight timings, you can usually bet on needing GDM for AMD or 2T for Intel. But if your Karhu testing does accurately reflect stability, then I suppose your timings are loose enough or you're pumping enough DRAM voltage not to need GDM.

 

[Zach_01]

I know that different board, rams, CPU cant be copy-paste on settings, but just for reference...

I have "Power Supply Idle Control" on "Low Current Idle".


GDM: Enabled
PDM: Disabled

Something else I forgot to mention to many times (I'm getting old) is the BIOS setting of

"SoC/Uncore OC mode" and I keep it Enabled. According to buildzoid when this is enabled it disables the I/O die power savings and may help with RAM/UMC/IF overclocking.
May add 1~2W on SoC consumption


The tRFC values have this relation
tRFC2 = tRFC / 1.346
tRFC4 = tRFC2 / 1.625

But...

The DRAMcalculator on the "Additional Calculators" tab has a tRFC... wait for it.... calculator!
You can find instantly all tRFCs by entering the speed and ns.

For example you enter 350ns and 3600MHz


If you want to tight tRFCs you keep ns the same and you give it lower speed


My current tRFCs are for 350ns and 2000MHz

 

[(*^^*)]

Normally, you should just load XMP. For some reason, you may have to manually enter the latency and memory timing in the same way as the specifications.

 

[mxking035]

I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.

If you don't have problem running with 3200mhz, then its your ram or the timings.

Why not Enable GDM first and set tRFC=570.
Also your voltages are already high for 3600 loose timings.

 

[travva]

@tabascosauz question for you: i notice in just reading stuff online that one of the ram review sites has a screenshot of a better version of my board and there's something in it that confused me

when you guys are telling me to set SOC to 1.1, are you meaning the chipset SOC or cpu NB/SOC? My board has both of these entries and I believe I set the CPU NB/SOC to 1.1 but now I wonder based on this screenshot.

 

[tabascosauz]

@tabascosauz question for you: i notice in just reading stuff online that one of the ram review sites has a screenshot of a better version of my board and there's something in it that confused me

View attachment 173651

when you guys are telling me to set SOC to 1.1, are you meaning the chipset SOC or cpu NB/SOC? My board has both of these entries and I believe I set the CPU NB/SOC to 1.1 but now I wonder based on this screenshot.

Ugh MSI BIOS. CPU NB/SoC is the right one. It's the voltage fed to the I/O die in the CPU containing all the I/O functions and memory controller, which I guess can be synonymous with northbridge. The other one is something to do with the X570 PCH, nothing to do with memory.

 

[travva]

Ugh MSI BIOS. CPU NB/SoC is the right one. It's the voltage fed to the I/O die in the CPU containing all the I/O functions and memory controller, which I guess can be synonymous with northbridge. The other one is something to do with the X570 PCH, nothing to do with memory.

Awesome! Thanks again, I really appreciate all of your help and expertise, truly.

@tabascosauz sorry to be so needy but can you tell me if there's an easy way to compare what the differences in the two xmp profiles on my ram are? like through typhoon or similar software?

 

[biffzinker]

@tabascosauz sorry to be so needy but can you tell me if there's an easy way to compare what the differences in the two xmp profiles on my ram are? like through typhoon or similar software?

Should be able to check the two XMP profiles in the BIOS. The Memory-Z at the bottom of the Overclocking Tab in the BIOS. You can take screenshots of the BIOS with F12 if you have FAT32 formatted partition somewhere on a drive. I plugged in a flash drive since all SSD/HDDs are formatted as NTFS, and EXT4. The images are saved as bitmap.

 

[travva]

Should be able to check the two XMP profiles in the BIOS. The Memory-Z at the bottom of the Overclocking Tab in the BIOS. You can take screenshots of the BIOS with F12 if you have FAT32 formatted partition somewhere on a drive. I plugged in a flash drive since all SSD/HDDs are formatted as NTFS, and EXT4. The images are saved as bitmap.
View attachment 173676

View attachment 173677

Sweet, thank you!

 

[travva]

just wanted to give ya'll an update: after applying new bios and removing that amazon basics adapter thing, my system seems stable. I went 6 days with no crash and then ended up crashing due to a geforce experience issue which is completely unrelated. I think I'm good to go now and just wanted to reply back. My thought is the beta bios was the fix since that makes the most sense.