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Undervolting Predator Helios 300 issues

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Nov 17, 2020
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
I've been using a combination of ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner to undervolt my Laptop. The specs are as follows in case they don't already show up.

I7-7700HQ
GTX 1060
16GB Ram

I'm new to this forum, so any help is appreciated. These are my current undervolting settings for ThrottleStop
Settings.PNG
Settings 2.PNG


My Cache undervolt won't go that far above -110 without crashing on Cinebench.
I fiddled a lot of the IccMax, I don't know if having it at 120 helps or not.

Here's the odd part. When running a Cinebench test, I get a score of about ~3300 and My temps don't go above 75C. Then I go and play Apex Legends (not a super CPU demanding game I don't think)
And my CPU usage is around 40%, but my CPU temp skyrockets to 90+C and Triggers PROCHOT. Then after about 30 mins, it freezes and forces me to restart the Laptop. Can anyone help me understand
why I get good reads on Cinebench, but my CPU crumbles when I play videogames? Also the GPU flutters around 60-75% when playing, but doesn't go that far about 80C
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Why do you have your core set to Static voltage? Your laptop should be set to Adaptive mode.

Try doing some testing with Cinebench R20 or R23.


I know on the newer CPUs, the cache voltage is the limiting factor. Many users have had no problem increasing the core voltage significantly as long as the cache was not set too high. Try testing with Cinebench with the cache at -100 mV and then adjust only the core from -100 mV to -200 mV in -25 mV increments. See if your Cinebench scores increase or if your temperatures decrease during this test. You might not see any change at all but it is worth a try.

If your laptop uses a shared heatsink then as soon as you start playing a game, the Nvidia GPU will start adding heat to your laptop and this will prevent the heatsink from cooling the CPU appropriately. Cinebench does not use the Nvidia GPU so this keeps the temps down.

Have you ever disassembled and cleaned your laptop and replaced the thermal paste? This is normal maintenance for any gaming laptop.

Try adjusting the Windows power slider so your computer uses an EPP setting of 84. With a 7th Gen CPU, Windows 10 might not handle this correctly. In that case, check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop and try setting that to 80 or 84. You can monitor the EPP value that the CPU is using by looking at the info in the monitoring table in the FIVR window.

The Power Saver box in ThrottleStop has a gray check mark. This is not necessary. Temporarily check the Set Multiplier box and then clear the Power Saver box. This feature mostly applies only to older Core 2 Duo CPUs from 12+ years ago.

Set IccMax sky high. It is a throttling method that is not necessary.
 
Joined
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Messages
9 (0.15/day)
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Thanks for the advice, I have no clue why my Core was on static. I ran another Cinebench R23 test after changing my settings like you asked and the score was actually lower with higher CPU temps. (85-90C average). I'm gonna keep fiddling with the Core and Cache voltages like you said and see what happens. Cleaning my Laptop will definitely be on my to-do list. Something else I noticed is while running a Cinebench test, my Max PKG Power W is at 28 and my usage is also around 28. However, when playing games, my usage barely goes above 15. From what I've seen I think my computer should be a 40 or 45 Watt computer, so why is it using so little? Also I noticed on ThrottleStop that CPUs 3 and 4 are 10+ degrees C hotter than the other CPUs, what might be causing that?

Thanks for the help! :D
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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my Max PKG Power W is at 28 and my usage is also around 28.
This is why I like seeing screenshots. What usage is at 28? Your screenshot above shows you have reduced all of your turbo ratio limits to 28. This is going to reduce power consumption and performance significantly. I hope you were not using that profile when running Cinebench. Post a screenshot while your CPU is fully loaded running Cinebench. Open Limit Reasons to show if there is any thermal or power limit throttling.

Your CPU does have a 45W TDP rating. Did you change the turbo power limits in the TPL window or make any other changes? Power consumption is not important as long as your CPU is able to run fully loaded at its full rated speed. Watch the CPU multiplier reported by ThrottleStop while running Cinebench.
 
Joined
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Messages
9 (0.15/day)
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Sure thing, here are screenshots of what you requested
Settings 3.PNG
Settings 4.PNG
Cinebench.PNG
Limit Reasons.PNG


These are all during a cinebench test. I am using this profile for the test. The reason all my Turbo Ratio Limits are at 28 is because I was under the impression that those were my clocks speeds (28 =2800Mhz) Are they something else? Also The score for this bench is 3470
Hope this helps!
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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The reason all my Turbo Ratio Limits are at 28 is because I was under the impression that those were my clocks speeds (28 = 2800Mhz)
That is correct. The question is, why do you want to run your CPU slower than its rated speed when running a stress test? ThrottleStop shows that the default turbo ratios are 38, 36, 35, 34.

The 7700HQ has a 45W TDP rating. You have set the long term turbo power limit in the TPL window to 40W. That can reduce maximum performance.

Are you lowering CPU performance deliberately to try and control your maximum CPU temperature?

Edit - There is probably no need to check or use the Intel Power Balance function.
 
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
I just followed a couple guides on ThrottleStop and the helios 300 specifically, which led me here. I have a decent idea of what most of the settings do, but I'm not 100% knowledgeable on Throttlestop. Thermal Throttling had given me consistent stutters and frame loss when gaming, so I've been trying to aviod that via Undervolting. So far everything I've tried has either not affected temperature at all, or reduced temperature briefly, then crashed my computer due to low voltage. So basically to answer your question, yeah, I guess I am lowering CPU performance to try an reduce temps, because if that'll still give me 60 fps with no stutters and decent temps, I'm happy\

Also, here's an updated Cinebench run when I reset the turbo ratios to default and the long turbo power limit to 45, all other settings are the same like in the previous post.
Cinebench 2.PNG


The rendering has jumped up to 4288, but my temp is much higher than before
 
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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Your screenshot shows that your heatsink and fan are struggling to keep your CPU under the thermal throttling temperature even though power consumption is only 30W. It also shows a 17°C difference in peak temperatures between the first and second cores and a 22°C difference between the second and third cores. This is telling you that it is time to replace the thermal paste and clean your laptop heatsink and fan.

When playing games, it is probably best to lower the CPU speed like you were doing. Fixing the thermal paste would be even better.
 
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Messages
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Thanks for your time! I went through a lot of your other threads for information, but felt I needed to ask myself since my case seemed rather odd. Keep up the good work!
 
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Messages
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Your screenshot shows that your heatsink and fan are struggling to keep your CPU under the thermal throttling temperature even though power consumption is only 30W. It also shows a 17°C difference in peak temperatures between the first and second cores and a 22°C difference between the second and third cores. This is telling you that it is time to replace the thermal paste and clean your laptop heatsink and fan.

When playing games, it is probably best to lower the CPU speed like you were doing. Fixing the thermal paste would be even better.

Hey! I finally replaced the thermal paste and cleaned the fans, but now I've run into a new issue. I'm constantly getting EDP Other when idle on Core, GPU and Ring. This wasn't an issue before, why is this happening? Here are some screenshots of my current settings, and the alarms when running a Cinebench stress test.

Test 1.PNG


Here are my current settings

Test 2.PNG


Test 3.PNG


Test 4.PNG


My Temps are maxing out at a nice 80C when running the test, with about a 30W usage as shown in the first image. The EDP Other on any of the three will sometimes flicker red, I'm not sure why.
The Cinebench test finished rendering at a nice 4025 points, which is a nice leap from the first run.

Thanks in advance!
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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@Kaiyohte - Typically EDP OTHER across all three domains simultaneously is caused by the PP0 Current Limit being set too low. Try Increasing that value in the TPL window to 100 or 200 and see if it helps.

I would also set all of the IccMax values to their maximum, 255.75. Everything else is looking good. Lots of CPU speed and temps are great.

There is rarely a need to check the Intel Power Balance feature.

Edit - Your previous screenshots showed that you had the PP0 Current Limit set to 0. If this was not causing any problems, you should go back to using this value. Setting this to 0 usually tells the CPU to ignore this setting. Setting this to 0 or a big number should work.
 
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Messages
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Alright, I after doing that I ran another Cinebench test and got similar results, but this time my temps were 85-89C, which I don't mind too much. The issue still occurs when gaming however, which sucks. I game for about 10 minutes, then thermal throttling still occurs, reaching ~99C temps, with cores 3,4,6 and 7 being a couple degrees above the rest. The only settings I changed were changing PP0 to zero and maxing out the IccMax values. At this point I'm dumbfounded. The CPU is using 41W at max which is awesome, and when gaming, the CPU usage is only at around 40%. The EDP Other on Core and GPU are gone. It just doesn't make any sense as to why the temperatures are so high for almost no reason. Should I maybe check to see if I properly applied thermal paste? (Large disparities in temp are shown in the image)
 

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unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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@Kaiyohte - What thermal paste did you use? I will put my vote in for Noctua NT-H2 based on user testing.

Some laptops are not designed to dissipate all of the heat that a CPU and GPU can generate. Your CPU temps looked great in your screenshots when you were only stressing the CPU. Throw some extra heat from your GPU into your laptop chassis and things start to fail. You might have to slow your CPU down a little or reduce the turbo power limits to try to control the excessive heat.
 
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Messages
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Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
I went with Arctic MX-4, it seemed like the most popular. The Cinebench test that was running when the previous screenshot was taken came back with a score of 4225. I think you're right that slowing down my CPU a bit is probably the best bet.
 
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Same CPU with Noctua NT-H2 is not exceeding 80-82 C. The Limit reasons box remanis black during all kind of test and games, though Asus have set ridiculous 15 degrees Celsius offset to the PROCHOT to 85 C. Anyway I just decided to leave it like that
(It's used by my kids - 9 and 13 for almost a year. In this time they've managed to break 3 button caps, broke one hinge and I had to use soldering to fix back two threaded bushings, holding the heatsink back to the mainboard. This laptop always has a surprise for me and the boys are helping it a lot :D Still working like a beast 3 years later)
CB23 Score - 4746
 
Joined
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Messages
9 (0.15/day)
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
Motherboard Predator G3-571
Memory 16 GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
Same CPU with Noctua NT-H2 is not exceeding 80-82 C. The Limit reasons box remanis black during all kind of test and games, though Asus have set ridiculous 15 degrees Celsius offset to the PROCHOT to 85 C. Anyway I just decided to leave it like that
(It's used by my kids - 9 and 13 for almost a year. In this time they've managed to break 3 button caps, broke one hinge and I had to use soldering to fix back two threaded bushings, holding the heatsink back to the mainboard. This laptop always has a surprise for me and the boys are helping it a lot :D Still working like a beast 3 years later)
CB23 Score - 4746

That looks amazing! If you don't mind, could you send some screenshots of your current settings in FIVR and TPL? That would be great.
 
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