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Unreal Engine 4 is probably confirmed for WiiU for launch

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#26
A new engine, based largely on an old engine with a few face lifts. Sigh.



The WiiU, or whatever they settle on, is a console that's 2+ years behind computers on the day it is released. Any engine based on that old of hardware is going to be either knee capped, or run like a dog. The only real way they ever "improve" is to keep the functional structure of an engine, but improve graphical performance. UT99->UT2003->UT3 all play the same, despite being a decade apart. That kind of a lack of evolution is kind of sad.
 
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#27
Say what you will, but UT, UT2k3, and UT2k4 are still some of the BEST FPS games I've ever played. It's a disappointment that they half-assed UT3 and had another studio co-develop it. I hope a UT 2012 or UT4 is on the horizon, because I could really go for that style game. Sick of all these modern combat low-hp shooters.
 
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#28
Serious Sam's gameplay is the same from 1st to 3rd, never really bothered me (Serious Engine from 1 to 3.5 scales pretty good as well, its one of the few games that offers tons of graphical tweaking and one of the few games to offer option to modify internal render resolution).
 
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#29
All the hardware for wiiU already exists so why are they waiting for wiiU to release it?
What a question:

-SDKs are usually never released before the actual main game of the engine
-WiiU is the first next gen console to be released
-There might already be a launch title publishing deal with nintendo and epic
-PCs aren't EPICs main game platform anymore (unreal tournament is quake copycat anyways)


We don't know how multiplatform does function yet so ...

It might be separate internal builds (every platform version it's own version of engine on disc) or all-in-one multiplatform engine like CryEngine.



About EPICs opinion, i don't have a good one either. EPICs engine is a very weird one and i never used it to make maps cause i like sandbox style mapping in CryEngine 200 times more, also EPIC never really made FPS at all, they just made up unreal but it was good non the less, EPIC is now a shitty console whore , but the biggest media whore is Cliff, i just hate that guy if you see him on stupid TV intervews he's making him self look like a jackass with his hollywood big-ass-media whassup-LIVE-TEEN-KRIBS attitude.


start at 10:30
Play for the camera dumbass, how more fake impression can he make, he probably thinks a lot of x360 13-old noobs are watching him and beliving his words.

That bike is all about the GOW3 marketing and to get on TV ... it's a big advert, just stinks what EPIC has turned into.

 
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#30
cliffyb has always been like that.

back in the day when he dyed his hair a lot he was driving a Ferrari.
 
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#31
cliffyb has always been like that.

back in the day when he dyed his hair a lot he was driving a Ferrari.
He can make any game he wants, he will never have the same respect as John Carmack has. And if some twitter fags chatter with him every day and think he's cool and "teh best game dezinah", they're delusional, he should make the (console) games suck less (brown:banghead:) instead of jabbering on twitter all day.
 
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#32
John Carmack is a programmer. Cliff Bleszinski is a designer.
 
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#33
John Carmack is a programmer. Cliff Bleszinski is a designer.
does it matter ?

Dustin Bowder is a also designer and he's not a jackass.
 
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#34
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#35
How does it matter - John carmack takes on big-ass-media sometimes but he always talks in a way that they let him finish or at least doesn't really care about, he doesn't CAVE into the intervewer's direction as Cliff does. Did you ever see John Carmack saysing "im john carmack and you're watching G4TV" ?

IGN let Carmack to finish his talk but when IGN posted the interview on their channel it was standard CUT job like you see in news. FUCK IGN.

Another big-ass-media-whore example
Cliff B starts at 3:00


Dustin Bowder doesn't take big-ass-media intervews at ALL. Blizzard alsmot never, except Blizzcon with Geoff keighley but they(blizzard) get a lot of cash from that douche who's willing to pay that much just to be exclusive stream over his site and blizzcon presentation, terrible co-hosts and "field-reporters" as well, they put some rookie girls to report they look like they just escaped a penthouse without any real skills for this job.


This is how you do a proper technical or detailed interview, i don't see any big-ass-hollywood-media-mainstream-talk-kirbs-no-skilled-booth-babes-crap
[yt]vTI-zM8P8pw[/yt]
[yt]NxFdsEtr-TY[/yt]





EXAMPLE OF BIG-ASS-MEDIA INTERVIEW (john carmack never took geoff keighley interview ever again)
Just watch how Carmack is hiddenly upset he's always being interrupted.
And how many times keighley tries ... with the media standard: "all right"
And see how keighly looks at the camera at some point, then he smiles again, he has sole purpose to make his interview to appeal to broader audience by dumbing everything down as keeping it "interesting" ... as quickly as carmack goes into the details he's already dreading to interrupt and not go into let him to go into the depths too much.
 
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#36
Carmack is a genius, but Rage was a piece of shit. UDK is a lot more accessible and to my knowledge more user friendly. I would love to see iD and Epic go head to head and both work on a new Quake and Unreal Tournament respectively. I was a huge UT fan, and loved Quake as well (fond memories watching pro Quake 3 matches).
 
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#37
John Goodman was the best part of that game.

I don't want to see either. Quake and Unreal are too old and linear. I can just imagine Carmack trying to pitch a big budget sequel to Bethesda.. "so John what kind of story? horde mode? co-op?"

leave those properties alone and go make new ones.
 
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#38
Too much butthurt over the difference between a programmer and a designer is contained in this thread.

If you have a problem with a companies games or personnel then you should avoid purchasing their wares.

I stopped buying Ubisoft games because of their DRM. Maybe you shouldn't buy Gears of War 4 when it comes out. For the xbox.
 
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#39
Epic wrapped up the story :p
 
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#40
A new engine, based largely on an old engine with a few face lifts. Sigh.



The WiiU, or whatever they settle on, is a console that's 2+ years behind computers on the day it is released. Any engine based on that old of hardware is going to be either knee capped, or run like a dog. The only real way they ever "improve" is to keep the functional structure of an engine, but improve graphical performance. UT99->UT2003->UT3 all play the same, despite being a decade apart. That kind of a lack of evolution is kind of sad.
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/13...al-features/page__view__findpost__p__20306132



Carmack is a genius, but Rage was a piece of shit. UDK is a lot more accessible and to my knowledge more user friendly. I would love to see iD and Epic go head to head and both work on a new Quake and Unreal Tournament respectively. I was a huge UT fan, and loved Quake as well (fond memories watching pro Quake 3 matches).
Carmack already said the console focus was a mistake and he's changing his direction, Doom4 won't follow the same take on things, PC will be developed and then deployed on consoles, how do they make this is up to them, it doesn't mean there will be actual porting done, it's a different way than saying "port", it's not a port, i'll just be developed with PC hardware in mind and what consoles won't handle will be cut down, unlike Crytek who completely compromised the design to make a console crysis which sucked so much.

Also, Carmack confirmed he was never interested into the engine licensing market and he doesn't care about it, there is no "lack of success" that some noobs spread around the web that UT3 engine was the "winner" over IDTech4 in engine licensing ,

Source for engine licensing - id 20th anniversary interview, starts at 15:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLaA-CVmTE

Too much butthurt over the difference between a programmer and a designer is contained in this thread.

If you have a problem with a companies games or personnel then you should avoid purchasing their wares.

I stopped buying Ubisoft games because of their DRM. Maybe you shouldn't buy Gears of War 4 when it comes out. For the xbox.
Didn't mean that seriously about cliff, just made a big deal out of it, it's my opinion, i just don't like that type of dual behavior ... because he act's like some red-carpet person and wants to be the first one to get noticed, looks like it's more about him than the games.
 
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#41

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#42
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/13...al-features/page__view__findpost__p__20306132





Carmack already said the console focus was a mistake and he's changing his direction, Doom4 won't follow the same take on things, PC will be developed and then deployed on consoles, how do they make this is up to them, it doesn't mean there will be actual porting done, it's a different way than saying "port", it's not a port, i'll just be developed with PC hardware in mind and what consoles won't handle will be cut down, unlike Crytek who completely compromised the design to make a console crysis which sucked so much.

Also, Carmack confirmed he was never interested into the engine licensing market and he doesn't care about it, there is no "lack of success" that some noobs spread around the web that UT3 engine was the "winner" over IDTech4 in engine licensing ,

Source for engine licensing - id 20th anniversary interview, starts at 15:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLaA-CVmTE



Didn't mean that seriously about cliff, just made a big deal out of it, it's my opinion, i just don't like that type of dual behavior ... because he act's like some red-carpet person and wants to be the first one to get noticed, looks like it's more about him than the games.
actually carmack starts off saying consoles are at fault aka he focused there, 2 days later in another interview he blames basically microsoft AMD and Nvidia and says hes going to focus on consoles pretty much exclusively the man might be a genius but he flip flops on topics more often then a politician
 
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#43
actually carmack starts off saying consoles are at fault aka he focused there, 2 days later in another interview he blames basically microsoft AMD and Nvidia and says hes going to focus on consoles pretty much exclusively the man might have been a genius early in his career but he flip flops on topics more often then a politician
fixed that for you
 
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#44
actually carmack starts off saying consoles are at fault aka he focused there, 2 days later in another interview he blames basically microsoft AMD and Nvidia and says hes going to focus on consoles pretty much exclusively the man might be a genius but he flip flops on topics more often then a politician
You don't understand the whole picture (95% gamers don't)

Let me explain.


The focus on consoles was in a context that needed "the focus" of the software to run efficiently on consoles and is especially the streaming, transcoding pipeline since the biggest problem of consoles with IDTech5 technology is the data transfare rate from DVD/HDD to RAM to the CPU/GPU ... that was the focus since PC didn't require this much optimization , but in other hand i already posted a link how actually for consoles is easier to develop for since it has full hardware access, PCs could have been "significantly" times faster if it were properly programmed. (watch the interviews)


The "change of direction" is another thing where they will develop the game with TOP PC hardware in mind and with the newest tech (ex tesselation) - it doesn't mean they will not optimize and suck everything out of the consoles with their next game (doom4)


Reading just the news articles without understanding the context he's speaking in is the main problem ... obviously he's talks are deeply defined and technical, it takes analysis, and i can say neither i understood him at first, takes a lot of watching of interviews and quakecon 2011 over 5 times :p (not a lot done that)
 

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#45
I understand what Carmack is saying i paid $85,000 for the privilege to understand what hes saying,

Consoles are the target demographic the PC game suffered because he shifted focus to consoles,

it dosent change the fact he bashed AMD / Nvidia / Microsoft, for there drivers etc causing him problem, and that while they changed direction to consoles he would remain commited to console because it has the largest market share, you can take the candy coating and stuff it. the Truth is what it is, on console the game worked well enough and sold better,

and i am willing to bet Doom 4 wont use TOP PC hardware, those days are long gone, Carmack is not going to bother,

After the Game was fixed and drivers ironed out even a god damn 5770 can max RAGE which uses the same engine Doom 4 is going to use, its not going to magically cripple hardware when it comes out.

I mean COME ON a GT 240 and a 6570 can max RAGE out at 1920x1080 4xAA with High Res Texture Pack.



Carmack will cater to the lowest common denominator aka consoles and scale up,


8xAA 30 fps minimum 50+ avg max settings 1920x1080


now tell me how is anyone going to take the man seriously hes focusing on console, while he might take time on the next title so as to have it actually working and rendering properly on launch dont expect it to cripple hardware because its not going to.
 
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#46
I have seen screenshots comparing the texture quality of even Doom 3 to Rage, and Doom 3 had infinitely more attention to detail. I'm not holding my breath for Doom 4, that's for sure. Maybe if it's made to take advantage of the next generation of consoles it will be something other than a let down, but I'm tired of waiting for sequels and big name IP to land that started on PC and used to set the bar, just to be handed crippled console ports.
 
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#47
Confirmed

He said this (it starts 1:17:09):
Quote:
Today the engine runs on PC, Mac, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, iOS, Android, Nintendo Wii U, PlayStation Vita and even in web browsers using Flash... oh, and *laughter* some platforms we are not allowed to mention by name yet. Soon we'll be unveiling the amazing Unreal Engine 4.
Source: http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot- ... ds20120209

too different statements, nothing said about unreal4 not on wii u , although i could see unreal using that lack of wii u as a marketing tool, marketing is nothing but fanboy praises nowadays, but that's not what he said. And epic won't ever develop themselves for nintendo , just impossible. Even without their deep connection with microsoft , i just can't see it

The media seems ignorant about it or reporting it but failing to notice WiiU is already confirmed, and making a question post "IF WiiU is on that "unannounced" list"

Some stupid media BLATANTLY make up that Unreal Engine 4 will not be on WiiU just because Kotaku reported that UE4 will need 10 times the horsepower of x360 ... first of all that's something that can be adjusted, it's not the operational requirement of an engine, it's the super quality demo whatever thing so media wrong about this ... then the stupid media doesn't even realize how much POWERFUL WiiU really is, it's not 50% more than x360 stupid media ... it's 4 freaking GPU generations, that's big time people, WAKE UP.

Ofcourse the GFX will be adjusted, but the ENGINE as in the CODE that runs under the hood is what WiiU is more than enough. Yes these things sometimes make me i would throw pc out of the window because it's so frustrating to se how these kind of people are even MORALLY allowing them selfs to post unfounded, unresearched claims, these people have no real industry background, no software no hardware no modding no windows tweaking nothing about. Well i was a gamer at first, now im more of "researcher - historian" ... play less games and less time, only the worthwhile ones. The point is: Learn how to google search.

ID Software's Carmack already confirmed WiiU is enough to deploy IDTech5 --- and if IDTech5 can make it, ANYTHING else can. That's called experience and FAMILIARITY and if you don't know these basics ofcourse you post shit on blogs.

The point why im very:)rolleyes:) angry at them is because they almost MADE ME belive and i stopped RESEARCHING for a week, thinking that it won't come, i only found about this on rutine surfing around the web (8 days later:mad:), reading some wiiU news, My experience was TOO MUCH and i refused to belive it.

Im even more stupid than them not researching on ... emmm " The fabulus NEWS SOURCE RELIABILITY". :banghead:

Seems like a lot of these nintendo news blogs are making stuff up, noobs or planted anti-marketing ?


http://wiiuupdates.com/2012/02/unreal-engine-4-nintendo-wiiu/


You can read here all about the WiiU GPU here, at the time HD7000 series weren't even announced.

It is logical that the new Xbox and PS will be better than WiiU, that's a number of factors i knew almost a year before:
http://www.shacknews.com/article/68905/wii-u-uses-last-gen?id=26106637#item_26106637
And yes it was confirmed WiiU will be about 20% less stronger in peak performance CPU compared to new Xbox, but this really makes no difference as i said in my other post somewhere around here that games really don't depend on CPU performance but rather on memory as we seen issued with Rage, the PS3 CPU peak raw power easily steps over x360 but because of the memory issues PS3's raw CPU performance doesn't help at all.

Don't take that "never forget" link seriously, some of my comments against X360 were due to subjective opinion and based the company behavior behind it , i wasn't even that serious, just had too much of annoyance how M$ does things and writting a semi-troll post was a way to lower down brain pressure lol.
 
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#48
Okay, for starters, I doubt anyone said for certain UE4 wouldn't be present on the Wii U, I mean as it stands the Unreal Engine is literally everywhere, so it logically makes sense it will be there. The Unreal Engine is definitely up there with Source, Gamebryo, CryEngine, and iDTech as one of the (if not THE) most popular game engines there are, so anyone stating it wouldn't make an appearace on the Wii U in any capacity is an idiot.

Next, the Wii U is not that powerful. Nobody really knows what kind of GPU is in there, but according to Wikipedia and various rumors it is based on R700--the HD4xxx series. That means after 7 years, the Wii U is only going to have a CPU that is the same as the X360 with 1 more core, and a GPU that is only 2.5 generations ahead, when the newest offering from AMD is 5.5 Generations or so ahead. That isn't that huge considering 7 Years. The new Xbox is probably going to use the same or a similar Quad-Core, and feature an HD6xxx GPU (allegedly an HD6670 is present on the dev kits, but the retail version will likely feature a much stronger GPU). Comperatively, the new Xbox is going to crush the new Wii. You're also forgetting the processing power required to constantly stream game footage to those silly controllers and that Nintendo will probably mess up the same way Sony\Microsoft did this past generation--Memory.

You took that Carmack quote completely out of context and meaning. The games don't "rely" on RAM, it's that consoles compared to computers these days have such low amounts of RAM, that it is a nightmare for developers to get a game to run decently on all platforms. On PC people have 4-6-8-12-16GB of RAM easily and upwards of 3GB of VRAM, on an Xbox 360 they have 512MB of RAM (and 10MB of eDRAM if you want to get technical) and a PS3 features 256MB of System RAM and 256MB of VRAM. That is what Carmack is complaining about. That the PS3 only allows for 256MB of RAM to be accessible for the GPU. Games do NOT rely on RAM, but you need a decent amoount of it to not cause huge bottlenecks. If the systems had their RAM doubled, it would be infinitely easier for developers.
 
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#49
Okay, for starters, I doubt anyone said for certain UE4 wouldn't be present on the Wii U, I mean as it stands the Unreal Engine is literally everywhere, so it logically makes sense it will be there. The Unreal Engine is definitely up there with Source, Gamebryo, CryEngine, and iDTech as one of the (if not THE) most popular game engines there are, so anyone stating it wouldn't make an appearace on the Wii U in any capacity is an idiot.

They did:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/335399/unreal-engine-4-running-on-consoles-epic-cant-name-yet/
http://wiiuupdates.com/2012/02/unreal-engine-4-nintendo-wiiu/
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/02/1...engine-4-running-on-systems-we-cant-name-yet/


All of those that didn't blatantly deny UE4 for WiiU, didn't mentioned he actually confirmed WiiU in the SAME sentence moments before saying "on systems we can name yet". just silly:shadedshu


You took that Carmack quote completely out of context and meaning. The games don't "rely" on RAM, it's that consoles compared to computers these days have such low amounts of RAM, that it is a nightmare for developers to get a game to run decently on all platforms. On PC people have 4-6-8-12-16GB of RAM easily and upwards of 3GB of VRAM, on an Xbox 360 they have 512MB of RAM (and 10MB of eDRAM if you want to get technical) and a PS3 features 256MB of System RAM and 256MB of VRAM. That is what Carmack is complaining about. That the PS3 only allows for 256MB of RAM to be accessible for the GPU. Games do NOT rely on RAM, but you need a decent amoount of it to not cause huge bottlenecks. If the systems had their RAM doubled, it would be infinitely easier for developers.
I didn't say games rely on Ram, i said it's the consoles which have low IO , buffers and 512 MB just not being enough. The bottleneck on consoles is RAM, Rage could have looked much better, ofcourse it looks like that, they completely maxed out the Ram, and still it's not quite perfect on PS3, as it takes more OS mem and other stuff.

I watched Quake Con 2011 Carmack Keynote more about 5 times.
If you didn't see, i made the Rage megathread, do you think i pulled the whole post from somewhere else, that thread was my research.
 
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#50
They did:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/335399/unreal-engine-4-running-on-consoles-epic-cant-name-yet/
http://wiiuupdates.com/2012/02/unreal-engine-4-nintendo-wiiu/
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/02/1...engine-4-running-on-systems-we-cant-name-yet/


All of those that didn't blatantly deny UE4 for WiiU, didn't mentioned he actually confirmed WiiU in the SAME sentence moments before saying "on systems we can name yet". just silly:shadedshu
Links 1 and 3 actually say it is running on the Wii U, and that Epic Games has been working with Nintendo on various tech demos.

I didn't say games rely on Ram, i said it's the consoles which have low IO , buffers and 512 MB just not being enough. The bottleneck on consoles is RAM, Rage could have looked much better, ofcourse it looks like that, they completely maxed out the Ram, and still it's not quite perfect on PS3, as it takes more OS mem and other stuff.

I watched Quake Con 2011 Carmack Keynote more about 5 times.
If you didn't see, i made the Rage megathread, do you think i pulled the whole post from somewhere else, that thread was my research.
You said the CPU wouldn't be an issue which is hardly true. I agree the RAM is a bottleneck, but that is mostly because they use shared memory, and are pushing 7 years old. When you scale the resolution up the textures take up more space. Anything above like 1GB wouldn't be an issue on 1080P, if the new consoles had 2GB of shared memory, they would be set for a couple years easily. I don't anticipate TV's moving past 1920x1080 any time soon, so this generation will need buttloads of RAM to not encounter the same issues.