Upgrade 2500k

[eidairaman1]

I've seen 2500k go for 60-65€ in a reputable used parts website here, the 1155 motherboards have usually some demand. It was only an estimation anyway.



After reading this I went for the lowest pricing store I know (although customer service is not so good) and these are the cheapest 16GB kit available. However for €20 more there is this other kit. I know Ryzen benefits from higher frequencies so I think it would be worth it without actually needing an upgrade in the future although RAM compatibility may be an issue (but I think this has been mostly resolved via AGESA updates). They are still expensive, price evolution from other kit.

Yeah being international can be troublesome.

Amazon uk ive bought parts from before myself

Heres a list of ram from jun 20 2017, it is subject to have changed already.

https://www.techpowerup.com/234511/amd-broadens-compatibility-list-of-ddr4-memory-for-ryzen

Just a general list of whats been affirmed working by testing.

 

[kn00tcn]

Destroy ME?

management engine, the back door junk that already had a major security issue in the summer

there's nothing secure about adding more holes/complexity to OSs (win10) & mobos (ME), just because they probably wont be used by their creators doesnt mean some malware cant appear to utilize them, a hole is a hole

I Spectre and Meltdown I think affect Virtual Machines mostly, which I don't even use, and your right most benches show negligible performance in gaming.

And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me.

they affect 'everything' that shouldnt have its private/kernel/admin memory read by any external USER privileged (supposed to be limited) process: your password manager, logged in session in browser or software client (maybe), antivirus, etc... VMs are just extra critical since now every shared web host has big a problem although they've always had these kinds of problems via php for example

see that's the thing, this issue is extremely huge, but we're full of so many other issues already, everything has been broken for years in some form, humans cant write perfect code, so in a way not much has changed... well even in real life, you could not have a lock on your door, does that increase your chance of getting robbed? it only increases if a robber tries opening the door, otherwise if they were already aiming at the window, it makes no difference if the door was patched, the robber also wouldnt know if your door is missing a lock, they are choosing a random set of places to hit that may or may not be yours

The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.

how were ryzen prices in late november? those were the lowest i've seen here, i almost bought

how bad is used ram price?

 

[Toothless]

I vote yes. 4770k is still a pretty strong chip and should last a good while.

 

[FerK]

management engine, the back door junk that already had a major security issue in the summer

there's nothing secure about adding more holes/complexity to OSs (win10) & mobos (ME), just because they probably wont be used by their creators doesnt mean some malware cant appear to utilize them, a hole is a hole



they affect 'everything' that shouldnt have its private/kernel/admin memory read by any external USER privileged (supposed to be limited) process: your password manager, logged in session in browser or software client (maybe), antivirus, etc... VMs are just extra critical since now every shared web host has big a problem although they've always had these kinds of problems via php for example

see that's the thing, this issue is extremely huge, but we're full of so many other issues already, everything has been broken for years in some form, humans cant write perfect code, so in a way not much has changed... well even in real life, you could not have a lock on your door, does that increase your chance of getting robbed? it only increases if a robber tries opening the door, otherwise if they were already aiming at the window, it makes no difference if the door was patched, the robber also wouldnt know if your door is missing a lock, they are choosing a random set of places to hit that may or may not be yours



how were ryzen prices in late november? those were the lowest i've seen here, i almost bought

how bad is used ram price?

So can I remove ME? I just looked in Google and it seems like a bit of a headache.

The prices are lower now than at the end of November here. This is the evolution. Green means it was an special offer, and they were 180-183€. It is now at 179.99€. I don't see much used RAM and they often go a bit pricey. 16GB of Corsair 3000 CL15 was at 180€. I guess the people is not buying too much RAM nowadays with their prices so they don't sell the one they have, and those who do are probably to upgrade from an older build like me.

I'm still waiting because I did a benchmark the other day playing BF1 at ultra, and, well, it didn't go that bad.

21-02-2018, 12:37:20 bf1.exe benchmark completed, 42250 frames rendered in 512.078 s
Average framerate : 82.5 FPS
Minimum framerate : 60.2 FPS
Maximum framerate : 138.9 FPS
1% low framerate : 47.6 FPS
0.1% low framerate : 37.0 FPS

Considering I'm playing at 60hz, an average framerate of 82 is not that bad, and in this game my CPU wasn't the deciding factor I think, it was at about 90% of usage while the GPU was at 98-100% so I don't think I could have managed to get much more performance with another CPU, maybe in the 1%/0.1% low.

I vote yes. 4770k is still a pretty strong chip and should last a good while.

I already said no to my friend, I can still say yes, he would sell it to me at about 200€ (mb and cpu). But I ran some more tests like the BF1 listed above, and while I think that, despite gaining a bit more performance, since I don't plan on changing the gtx 1060 in a couple of years, I'm not sure the investment is justified. Also I would have to find a buyer for my 2500K, the motherboard would get picked up easily I guess, the chipset is old, but overclocking is allowed.

 

[kn00tcn]

ME is a hassle yes, maybe you can find someone to do it or mod the bios with known settings (because that's all it is, a bios file mod, the hassle comes if you do not have a way to download a bios or recover during a problem, but some mobos have dual bios, brands give you a download, users report in forums/github, so you might only need one or two easy software steps)

bf1 multiplayer? i have witnessed a friend's 2500k stock showing all 4 cores at 95+% each, causing a gtx970 to drop way down to 60% usage, fps inconsistently stuttering down to 40 at certain angles then hitting 60+ on others, as in not a stable 40 but visibly uneven frame pacing, it was a very irritating experience

i always wondered how much an OC can solve that, but it's a fact that modern frostbite engine is best on at least 6 threads

it's also known what type of gains you get from sandy-ivy-haswell-sky-kaby, where haswell is a decent gain over sandy/ivy while sky from haswell is back to the small gain, which makes 8 threaded haswell a great choice that will last a long time at 4ghz, then overclock if needed years later or on certain situations (dont forget, ryzen minimums or per thread heavy games dont really do better than haswell at same clocks, ryzen1 cant really go past 4ghz while haswell can)

in conclusion, 200e for 8thread haswell+z mobo (it is z i hope) with no further money spent is a good choice (great if you sell your old cpu+mobo) due to: price/performance/overclockability/ME removal potential/ram support/win7 support

surely you'd have 'plenty' of money in late 2019 or even late 2020 when prices cool off... or dont due to economic disaster(s), but oh well, if you dont want to or cant spend now, i'd at least be satisfied with haswell

but you should probably run some more tests on games/apps that start showing bad signs on 4 threads, i also want to know this in detail but havent gotten around to researching, actually i think that friend switched to ryzen so maybe i could take his 2500k, but i dont own super new games to test, nor do i have a working gfx card

 

[FerK]

ME is a hassle yes, maybe you can find someone to do it or mod the bios with known settings (because that's all it is, a bios file mod, the hassle comes if you do not have a way to download a bios or recover during a problem, but some mobos have dual bios, brands give you a download, users report in forums/github, so you might only need one or two easy software steps)

bf1 multiplayer? i have witnessed a friend's 2500k stock showing all 4 cores at 95+% each, causing a gtx970 to drop way down to 60% usage, fps inconsistently stuttering down to 40 at certain angles then hitting 60+ on others, as in not a stable 40 but visibly uneven frame pacing, it was a very irritating experience

i always wondered how much an OC can solve that, but it's a fact that modern frostbite engine is best on at least 6 threads

it's also known what type of gains you get from sandy-ivy-haswell-sky-kaby, where haswell is a decent gain over sandy/ivy while sky from haswell is back to the small gain, which makes 8 threaded haswell a great choice that will last a long time at 4ghz, then overclock if needed years later or on certain situations (dont forget, ryzen minimums or per thread heavy games dont really do better than haswell at same clocks, ryzen1 cant really go past 4ghz while haswell can)

in conclusion, 200e for 8thread haswell+z mobo (it is z i hope) with no further money spent is a good choice (great if you sell your old cpu+mobo) due to: price/performance/overclockability/ME removal potential/ram support/win7 support

surely you'd have 'plenty' of money in late 2019 or even late 2020 when prices cool off... or dont due to economic disaster(s), but oh well, if you dont want to or cant spend now, i'd at least be satisfied with haswell

but you should probably run some more tests on games/apps that start showing bad signs on 4 threads, i also want to know this in detail but havent gotten around to researching, actually i think that friend switched to ryzen so maybe i could take his 2500k, but i dont own super new games to test, nor do i have a working gfx card

Nope, BF1 singleplayer. I know there is a loss in performance in multiplayer for obvious reasons, but seemed like BF1 was everywhere in all the benchmark charts so I downloaded it (I don't have it), run a test and uninstalled it. I can't say anything about the multiplayer, I have played it when they released the open beta before launching the game, but at that time I had a R9 290 and, well, the game was beta. I don't remember the settings or the performance, but I think it was not that bad. There is an offer now for BF1, might as well try it (and a 10h tryout I think).

I still can get the 4770K, do you actually think I should? The motherboard was a Z87X-UD3H from Gigabyte. The thing with not getting it was to avoid a new change some years in the future. I don't know how a 4c/8t will perform in 2 years, for example. As of right now, it seems like it's fine for mostly every game but Intel just released their 6c generation and games might start to switch to a more threaded based games. That's why I was more willing to wait for a Ryzen upgrade.

There are very few reviews for modern CPU's that include the 2500k in their charts. I saw one (I don't know if it's allowed to link it) and there is a difference, Watchdogs 2 was bad for the i5 models but other than that, I think the 2500K didn't look so bad.

I don't know what else to try it, I play pubg, I casually play other games (not too many and not too much), but I don't know what else to test. I tested BF1 because its a game I'm going to play sooner or later, I've owned every other version in the past years so I was interested in the performance.

 

[kn00tcn]

do you really think there will be a major problem in only two years where multiple games are using so much cpu specific processing that they need more than 4core8thread just to be playable? is this on a 1060? in an age of dx12/vulkan? what about everyone on the 6c6t or 4c4t coffee lakes or ryzens?

the console refreshes didnt gain massive cpu power & the potential for gpus is underutilized, we see a bit of it with hair/particles/trueaudio, but when will we get to see games with swarms of creatures, i'm still waiting for something like the tech demo shown at the ps4 announcement

if you sell the sandy for 100e, that makes the haswell cost be 100e, that is not very much money at all, you can only get 8gb ram with that, you will have more money in two years (or if you dont, why would you prioritize games at that point, it's not like it's a phenom or pentium)

if you 'casually play' & didnt notice much wrong with 2500k, how could you possibly find overclocked 4770k a problem? in fact now i'm wondering if you should even bother if 2500k is fine for now... it's only due to the offer & if offset by selling that it's cause for serious consideration

 

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.

This has next to 0% impact on the consumer base. He doesnt need to worry about spectre or meltdown fixes.

 

[John Naylor]

My son has a 2600k @ 4.8 GHz on air since 2011. As a college student, he has lotta time for video games, and a job to pay for an upgrade, just sees no reason to do so. Most game he plays with his brother... who has a a 6700k and not like it has much effect on their game play.

This has next to 0% impact on the consumer base. He doesn't need to worry about spectre or meltdown fixes.

I'm still waiting to see an article that shows a problem here... just "much ado about nothing"

 

[FerK]

do you really think there will be a major problem in only two years where multiple games are using so much cpu specific processing that they need more than 4core8thread just to be playable? is this on a 1060? in an age of dx12/vulkan? what about everyone on the 6c6t or 4c4t coffee lakes or ryzens?

the console refreshes didnt gain massive cpu power & the potential for gpus is underutilized, we see a bit of it with hair/particles/trueaudio, but when will we get to see games with swarms of creatures, i'm still waiting for something like the tech demo shown at the ps4 announcement

if you sell the sandy for 100e, that makes the haswell cost be 100e, that is not very much money at all, you can only get 8gb ram with that, you will have more money in two years (or if you dont, why would you prioritize games at that point, it's not like it's a phenom or pentium)

if you 'casually play' & didnt notice much wrong with 2500k, how could you possibly find overclocked 4770k a problem? in fact now i'm wondering if you should even bother if 2500k is fine for now... it's only due to the offer & if offset by selling that it's cause for serious consideration

I don't find it a problem now. But I don't know how much more 'juice' it can extract from the GTX 1060 compared to the 2500k. I usually play with vsync on so the GPU hardly gets to 100%, but the times I have disabled it, it's way more often for the GPU to reach 100% before the CPU. With a higher end GPU, a 4770K would be a great investment, maybe with the 1060 it is too, but probably not so noticeable. I don't know, I may be wrong, I don't know exactly how games work, but if the GPU is already at 100% I don't think putting a more powerful cpu will do much. That's why I was looking at more long term, I've been with the same cpu for seven years now, I'm looking for something similar (well maybe not 7 years, certainly the 2xxx series of Intel has been a success), but four, five... So by the time I have to change the GPU, I don't have to change anything else. Maybe the 4770k will still be strong enough by the time I change the GPU, but that's where I'm doubtful.

Ryzen may not be too different to Haswell in today's gaming performance, but it has a potentially longer lifespan; DDR4, upgrades on the same socket (although this is not what I'm looking for, as stated above), the cores we talked about earlier... So that's my --wrong or not-- reasoning to prefer that to Haswell.