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upgrading from 2700X to 5900X on a MSI B450M Mortar

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After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.

My current setup is:

ProcessorAMD 2700X
MotherboardMSI B450M Mortar
CoolingCorsair H80i v2
MemoryG.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL16
Video CardAsus GTX 1060 DUAL OC 6GB
Power SupplySeasonic GX-750

The main uses of this rig is web browsing and gaming. I have a 32" 1440p monitor and don't play a lot of recent/"last gen" games. I know that the 5700X would likely provide better bang for buck, but the 5900X seems to be more "future proof" because of the extra cores, and feels more like a better upgrade than going from an 8 core to another.
I believe I'm just a bios update away from getting 5900X support on my motherboard. But I'm a bit afraid that the old-ish motherboard and RAM will not bring as big of a performance boost as some reviews/comparisons indicate, since they seem to use better setups.
The other question I have, is if I'll be able to run 32GB of RAM at 3200Mhz (4x8GB), I seem to recall that it was not possible on this board, or at least on the 2700X. Is there a MSI expert in the house?

Thanks in advance!
 

tabascosauz

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After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.

My current setup is:

ProcessorAMD 2700X
MotherboardMSI B450M Mortar
CoolingCorsair H80i v2
MemoryG.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL16
Video CardAsus GTX 1060 DUAL OC 6GB
Power SupplySeasonic GX-750

The main uses of this rig is web browsing and gaming. I have a 32" 1440p monitor and don't play a lot of recent/"last gen" games. I know that the 5700X would likely provide better bang for buck, but the 5900X seems to be more "future proof" because of the extra cores, and feels more like a better upgrade than going from an 8 core to another.
I believe I'm just a bios update away from getting 5900X support on my motherboard. But I'm a bit afraid that the old-ish motherboard and RAM will not bring as big of a performance boost as some reviews/comparisons indicate, since they seem to use better setups.
The other question I have, is if I'll be able to run 32GB of RAM at 3200Mhz (4x8GB), I seem to recall that it was not possible on this board, or at least on the 2700X. Is there a MSI expert in the house?

Thanks in advance!

1. I don't see why you should be worried about worse performance. That should not be the case unless Windows is overflowing with gunk/half corrupt, or MSI somehow borked the specific BIOS revision you flashed. Do a clean install if you haven't in a while, make sure you get the latest chipset drivers, and be on a reasonably recent BIOS. Do a few simple benchmarks and if performance is roughly in the right place then there's nothing to worry about (e.g. 650/9500 CPU-Z, 1600/21k R23 etc)

2. 5900X being "futureproof" - unless you have productivity workloads that specifically benefit from >8 cores, that's not how futureproofing works. Games still don't make much use of all-core load. If anything, a 5700X has a good chance of being more futureproof due to how CCX works - some games only know how to fill a CCX (ie. COD), so on a 5700X the game will load all 8 cores while on the 5900X it loads only 6. If you want futureproof AM4 for gaming, buy a 5800X3D, no debate there unless you only play niche games that only ever scale with clockspeed and do not benefit from cache.

3. No reason why you can't run 4x8 at 3200. Your 2700X was probably holding you back there. An ordinary 4-layer 4DIMM like the Mortar should easily do 3600+ on a 4 x single rank setup, if your kit is capable. You'd have to have positively ancient 2015 DDR4 to be dual rank in that setup, and even then 3200 should not be an issue.
 
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Games still don't make much use of all-core load. If anything, a 5700X has a good chance of being more futureproof due to how CCX works - some games only know how to fill a CCX (ie. COD), so on a 5700X the game will load all 8 cores while on the 5900X it loads only 6.
I did not know this! Will it be on par with a 5600X? I'm going to try to find specific benchmarks, but feel free to share some if you know them please.

If you want futureproof AM4 for gaming, buy a 5800X3D
I never considered this since I believe it to be too expensive. Currently the 5900X is about ~420€ and the 5800X3D is ~499€, and since the 5800X3D is newer, I don't expect it to devaluate as much as the 5900X.

An ordinary 4-layer 4DIMM like the Mortar should easily do 3600+
According to the datasheet/specifications it can only overclock RAM up to 3466Mhz
 

tabascosauz

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I did not know this! Will it be on par with a 5600X? I'm going to try to find specific benchmarks, but feel free to share some if you know them please.

Because Zen doesn't really scale on frequency, gaming performance is similar across the board for 5600(X)/5700X/5800X/5900X/5950X. Only the 5800X3D is the outlier. There's really no point going higher in the stack just for gaming performance, only for the cores. You can see this in pretty much every Zen 3 review.

The 5700X is a good choice - runs cool, clocks respectably, but you still get the 8 cores. If you were making this decision a year ago, the 5900X was better than 5800X for being thermally tolerable at stock with no tweaking, but the 5700X exists now. Again, unless you really need those cores, the 5900X isn't magically better just for clocking (ostensibly) higher.

You get potentially higher boost but it's really just for benchmark e-peen because of how Zen behaves. 5700X starts at a stock ceiling of 4650MHz I think, with a PBO max ceiling of 4850MHz if you have the core quality to hit that. 5900X is 4950MHz and has a 5150MHz max ceiling...........but exponentially more Zen 3 CPUs will be capable of 4850MHz than those that can go over 5GHz. I've seen 5900Xs max out at 5150, I've seen 5900Xs that struggle to hit 4800, my own is about right on the mark at 4950-5000 and no higher.

According to the datasheet/specifications it can only overclock RAM up to 3466Mhz

That is the QVL. Max speed on QVL means next to nothing in memory overclocking, it only means the fastest kit they've personally validated on that board. Even less so for pre-B550/X570 boards because there's a mix of boards that remained only rated on Ryzen 2000 (where QVL sucks because the memory controller itself has a tough time breaking past 3200-3400) and others that had updated QVLs after Ryzen 3000/5000 release.
 
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If you dont do content creation stuff like video encoding / editing the 5900X has more cores than you need, I agree with other posters the 5700X is the best bang for buck.
The best CPU for gaming your gonna get is the 5800X 3D if thats what you are after and tbh the 120mm H80i is getting quite long in the tooth so to speak so it might be wise to swap that out while your at and not worry about heat concerns.
 
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The only issue I can think of, even with the 5800X3D, is the PCIe 3.0 limitation. However, if you do not anticipate upgrading to a top tier card in this system within the next couple of generations, I reckon you will be fine.

The 6600XT (x8 interface) loses a maximum of 7% when reduced to PCIe 2.0 - even if RX 8k and RTX 50 use PCIe 5.0, you will be in pretty good shape.
 

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5600X is a great little cpu. For gaming I prefer it over my 5900X because it’s so easy to cool, for a nice quiet system. 5900X can be a beast..
 
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However, if you do not anticipate upgrading to a top tier card in this system within the next couple of generations
I'm looking for a decent deal on either a RX6700XT or a RX6800

5900X can be a beast.
the 120mm H80i is getting quite long in the tooth so to speak so it might be wise to swap that out
I wasn't worried about the cooling part since both the 2700X and the 5900X are rated at 105W, and from the reviews I've seen the 5900X doesn't use a significant amount of power over the 2700X.

If you dont do content creation stuff like video encoding / editing the 5900X has more cores than you need
I don't, but I've played with VMs in the past. But seeing intel pumping out an increasing the number of cores every year, makes me believe Windows and other software will eventually take advantage from the extra cores.
I come from a time where certain games would straight up not run if you didn't have enough threads on your system (I believe it was a Splinter Cell).

That is the QVL. Max speed on QVL means next to nothing in memory overclocking, it only means the fastest kit they've personally validated on that board. Even less so for pre-B550/X570 boards because there's a mix of boards that remained only rated on Ryzen 2000 (where QVL sucks because the memory controller itself has a tough time breaking past 3200-3400) and others that had updated QVLs after Ryzen 3000/5000 release.
IIRC the memory controller is in the CPU, but it's the board that dictates A-XMP profiles. So upgrading to the 5900X would increase RAM compatibility but I'd have to manually tune the RAM?
 

tabascosauz

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I wasn't worried about the cooling part since both the 2700X and the 5900X are rated at 105W, and from the reviews I've seen the 5900X doesn't use a significant amount of power over the 2700X.

IIRC the memory controller is in the CPU, but it's the board that dictates A-XMP profiles. So upgrading to the 5900X would increase RAM compatibility but I'd have to manually tune the RAM?

They are very different CPUs on many different levels. At stock 5900X probably will run cooler in all-core, and sometimes hotter in single thread. Thermally they are just very different. Power draw is not a good way to compare heat output across generations of CPUs. 2700X's heat comes mostly from running higher Vcore and pulling more power; a stock 5900X's heat comes mostly from short boosting at a moment's notice (1-2ms).

Board doesn't create XMP, A-XMP is just MSI's gimmicky name for it like Asus' "DOCP"......the problem with the Ryzen 1000 and 2000 memory controllers were that they were just relatively weak. Ryzen 3000's UMC took a big step up (from generally 3200-3600 to a hair over 5000 if you're lucky) and Ryzen 5000 is still the same.

Seen plenty of B450 Mortars over the years doing good dual rank B-die OCs between 3200 and 3800. Dual rank or 4x8 can temper expectations somewhat (maybe 3800-4000 on a newer 4-layer (eg. B550 Mortar), maybe 3600-3800 on an older 4-layer). It's a decent board, it's just that Ryzen 1000 and 2000 UMC hold pretty much any board back, so the product page still reflects that. The Mortar MAX is pretty much just your board with a bigger BIOS chip - it has an updated QVL for new CPUs that's simplistic but still shows you the difference between 3000 and 2000 CPUs:

mortar max qvl.png


The 5900X just means that the UMC is not holding you back anymore. Your RAM is still a mystery as to ICs, before going any further probably figure that out. Fortunately all you have to do is look at the sticker on the sticks, and find out what the last 5 digits are in the string above the barcode that starts with 042.

042 code.jpg
 
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It's an EOL platform, I would only get 5600(X) and a better GPU (and probably will, as I'm in a similar situation).
I wouldn't even buy more DDR4 RAM because you'll probably want to replace this platform before you actually need that additional RAM.
 
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After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.

My current setup is:

ProcessorAMD 2700X
MotherboardMSI B450M Mortar
CoolingCorsair H80i v2
MemoryG.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL16
Video CardAsus GTX 1060 DUAL OC 6GB
Power SupplySeasonic GX-750

The main uses of this rig is web browsing and gaming. I have a 32" 1440p monitor and don't play a lot of recent/"last gen" games. I know that the 5700X would likely provide better bang for buck, but the 5900X seems to be more "future proof" because of the extra cores, and feels more like a better upgrade than going from an 8 core to another.
I believe I'm just a bios update away from getting 5900X support on my motherboard. But I'm a bit afraid that the old-ish motherboard and RAM will not bring as big of a performance boost as some reviews/comparisons indicate, since they seem to use better setups.
The other question I have, is if I'll be able to run 32GB of RAM at 3200Mhz (4x8GB), I seem to recall that it was not possible on this board, or at least on the 2700X. Is there a MSI expert in the house?

Thanks in advance!
For your listed use case ONLY the 5800X3D would do it trounces the 5900X I myself just bought( I had reasons besides games).

The board might not do 4x3200 but also the chip might not.

And few game's need 32GB, 16GB in two sticks at 3600 would be faster and Stabler and the infinity fabric speed increase also really helps.
 

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5700x is the better gaming choice with the single CCX design, the 5900x is better if you have multi threaded workloads or need the extra cache for something

That CPU cooler may be a problem, most AIO's only last 2-3 years before they start losing performance or just outright die - the 5700x for example would easily be cooled on a basic 120mm tower cooler, while the 5900x needs a larger one or another AIO
(I'm not confident an aging AIO designed pre-AM4 would keep a 5900x in the happy temp ranges for max boosting)


Consider going 4x8GB of that RAM if you can, as you tend to get an extra 10% CPU performance in a lot of game titles from four memory ranks on zen 3.
(2x16 is an option sure, I was thinking of the cheapest route letting you keep the existing RAM)

4x 3200 will be easy on B450, but not all will do any higher. I've ran into a few that won't do 3400 or above with quad rank, while x370 and x470 could with the same CPU and RAM.
Simply raising SoC voltage is usually enough for 3200 even with 4x dual rank sticks.
 
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I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.

I have noticed a better min fps in games compared to my 5600/5600X at stock.

Maybe look at the 5800X I seen it on sale for 260USD I think its a good deal at that price.
 
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I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.

I have noticed a better min fps in games comapred to my 5600/5600X at stock.

Maybe look at the 5800X I seen it on sale for 260USD I think its a good deal at that price.
Some of the older MSI boards have VERY VERY super extremely bad VRMs - they learned their lesson and improved many of them, but wow some were pure trash -

always research the exact variant, as sometimes they'd have very similar sounding names and some brands do shenanigans with V2 versions of boards
 

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I'd say 5700X as well. 16 threads is more than enough for running a VM. If you're running multiple VM's doing some heavy lifting then that's another story.

Don't touch the RAM for now, as I highly doubt you'd see any tangible improvements. Well unless you run out of RAM on a regular basis.

The 2700X uses more power during gaming than the 5700X.

1664359511212.png


...since prices seem to be going up in the future.
While this is true, it's worth mentioning that with the launch of the Ryzen 7000 this week we've seen pretty much only $300+ motherboards, but this is about to change.
Lower priced boards will be released later this year, and DDR5 RAM prices are going down.

When are you planning to upgrade your graphics card?
 
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Some of the older MSI boards have VERY VERY super extremely bad VRMs - they learned their lesson and improved many of them, but wow some were pure trash -

always research the exact variant, as sometimes they'd have very similar sounding names and some brands do shenanigans with V2 versions of boards
The OP already has the same board. There are no revisions to B450M Mortar or Max on the Msi website.

I own two of these boards and both have similar performance. No reason whatsoever that the OP board will perform different from mines.

No need for him to worry about thrash VRMS. :p

*Only difference between the B450M Mortar and Mortar Max is that the latter has a larger BIOS chip.
 
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It could handle the 5900x or 5950x at stock, but won't boost that high. More importantly it definitely will not handle 5950x OCed as you said a post above. That's just asking for trouble. If the B450M was really that good people won't be flocking to the likes of x570 MAG/MPG boards.

Web capture_28-9-2022_16826_docs.google.com.jpeg

There's an updated list but I'll have to check Tom's I think, the last link was removed from Google for some reason.
 
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It could handle the 5900x or 5950x at stock, but won't boost that high. More importantly it definitely will not handle 5950x OCed as you said a post above. That's just asking for trouble. If the B450M was really that good people won't be flocking to the likes of x570 MAG/MPG boards.View attachment 263426

There's an updated list but I'll have to check Tom's I think, the last link was removed from Google for some reason.
I just did I quick run with R23 on my 5800X @ 140W load and CPU temp of 88 the VRM barely got warm 54 degrees.


R23 5800x VRM.jpg
 
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My thoughts as a 5950X owner, buy a 5800X3D if money allows. Otherwise 5700X is a top pick from me considering your use case. Good luck.
 
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i went from a 2700x to a 3900x about 18 months ago and the difference in image processing is staggering i mean its morethan 2x faster but for gaming the diff isnt much maybe 5 to 10 fps. i agree with what othiers have said a 5600x or 5800x would prob be better if you didnt need the extra cores.
 

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Just stating the obvious here, but if your main stuff is web surfing and gaming, you probably won't see much better performance after the upgrade. Web surfing is probably plenty fast already and gaming... it depends, you may see some gains if you're into FHD high-FPS. Otherwise, it will probably be the same.
So upgrade to get a better CPU for years to come, but don't expect magic because of the upgrade alone.
 
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After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.

My current setup is:

ProcessorAMD 2700X
MotherboardMSI B450M Mortar
CoolingCorsair H80i v2
MemoryG.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL16
Video CardAsus GTX 1060 DUAL OC 6GB
Power SupplySeasonic GX-750

The main uses of this rig is web browsing and gaming. I have a 32" 1440p monitor and don't play a lot of recent/"last gen" games. I know that the 5700X would likely provide better bang for buck, but the 5900X seems to be more "future proof" because of the extra cores, and feels more like a better upgrade than going from an 8 core to another.
I believe I'm just a bios update away from getting 5900X support on my motherboard. But I'm a bit afraid that the old-ish motherboard and RAM will not bring as big of a performance boost as some reviews/comparisons indicate, since they seem to use better setups.
The other question I have, is if I'll be able to run 32GB of RAM at 3200Mhz (4x8GB), I seem to recall that it was not possible on this board, or at least on the 2700X. Is there a MSI expert in the house?

Thanks in advance!

I gone from R5 3600 to R9 5900X and I'm thinking now to keep the system past AM5, with 1 at least GPU upgrades in future. Most likely RDNA3 in the middle of 2023.

I had the CPU cooling though (H110i 280mm) that I got 63months ago (5+y). H80i will struggle to keep 5900X's temp tame under elevated loads.
The 5700X will be much easier to cool with your cooler. Unless you want to upgrade cooling too go for 5700X.
Gaming may be less demanding on cooling but still the 5900X can draw over 100W (PPT) of power on some games. 5700X may draw around half (maybe 60%) of what 5900X will for gaming.
The 5700X will be fine even with 2x8GB 3200MHz RAM.

You can always upgrade your GPU further down the road and this will upgrade your gaming experience more than any CPU or 32GB RAM will.
A RX6600XT/RTX3060 can easily double your FPS with an 2700X/5700X on the same game settings/res.
I know what a 2700X can do for gaming because my previous R5 3600 was around the same for gaming. Its not bad at all and could easily handle my RX5700XT which is about the same of the RX6600XT/RTX3060.

The reason I got 5900X and not a 5700X/5800X is because I tend to run a lot of stuff all together and some VMs from time to time.
 
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interested to hear about the performance gains you'll get from your upgrade since I'm in a very similar position. 2700X on a pretty average B450 board. do let us know how it goes.
 

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Just stating the obvious here, but if your main stuff is web surfing and gaming, you probably won't see much better performance after the upgrade. Web surfing is probably plenty fast already and gaming... it depends, you may see some gains if you're into FHD high-FPS. Otherwise, it will probably be the same.
So upgrade to get a better CPU for years to come, but don't expect magic because of the upgrade alone.
My thought as well, that's why I asked about GPU upgrade. Upgrading now while hoping for some benefits a couple of years later when getting a newer GPU doesn't sound like a great investment.

interested to hear about the performance gains you'll get from your upgrade since I'm in a very similar position. 2700X on a pretty average B450 board. do let us know how it goes.
I gone from R5 3600 to R9 5900X and I'm thinking now to keep the system past AM5, with 1 at least GPU upgrades in future. Most likely RDNA3 in the middle of 2023.
You both have a card that's ~twice as fast than the OP, and less likely to be GPU limited.
 
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