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Upgrading from HD 6870, what to save for?

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#51
You are trying to complicate a simple issue which is if GPU manufactures keep rising prices like they are then that's like telling nvidia directly it's ok and then nvidia will charge even more because consumers are telling them it's ok to overcharge buy spending there money on them. I never mentioned anything about nvidias high end card I said nvidia is gouging people on there mid range cards.

Launch pricing nvidia (MID RANGE)
GTX 660ti $300
GTX 560ti $250
GTX 460 $229
No you are oversimplifying something that is not simple and pretending it makes it a trend. Each of those cards launched with a very different performance relative to the other cards in the market. Just going simple 560 Ti vs 660 Ti. The 660 Ti is 20% slower than the 680 and it's based on the same chip, you get 80% of the performance for 60% of the price. The 560 Ti was 40% slower than 580 and based on a smaller chip, you got 60% of performance for 50% the price. It's a completely different animal. The real mid-range the non-Ti 660 based on the smaller GK106 will launch soon and for $250 or less.

EDIT: I also fixed the launch pricing BTW.
 
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Black Mesa

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#52
No you are oversimplifying something that is not simple and pretending it makes it a trend. Each of those cards launched with a very different performance relative to the other cards in the market. Just going simple 560 Ti vs 660 Ti. The 660 Ti is 20% slower than the 680 and it's based on the same chip, you get 80% of the performance for 60% of the price. The 560 Ti was 40% slower than 580 and based on a smaller chip, you got 60% of performance for 50% the price. It's a completely different animal. The real mid-range the non-Ti 660 based on the smaller GK106 will launch soon and for $250 or less.

EDIT: I also fixed the launch pricing BTW.
Um actually my comparison is APPLES TO APPLES mid range to mid range. Just because you are ok with a disappearing mid range does not mean it's a good thing. Heck the same thing with these cards are the same thing that's happening in the real world the middle class is disappearing ROFLMAO nervously cause it's not really funny. Heck come to think of it back in 09 I bought a Ati Radeon HD 4890 for $300 day one launch brand new for $300 all in and yes that was the 7970 "high End" card of the time.
 
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#53
Um actually my comparison is APPLES TO APPLES mid range to mid range. Just because you are ok with a disappearing mid range does not mean it's a good thing. Heck the same thing with these cards are the same thing that's happening in the real world the middle class is disappearing ROFLMAO nervously cause it's not really funny. Heck come to think of it back in 09 I bought a Ati Radeon HD 4890 for $300 day one launch brand new for $300 all in and yes that was the 7970 "high End" card of the time.
660 Ti is NOT mid-range card. It's the third card based on the high-end chip (even if it was originally the performance chip). The 4890 was definitely not the 7970 of the time and was really not high end. Die size of the HD4890 was 256 mm^2 which is little more than Pitcairn the chip on HD7870. It was also 256 bit. Tahiti 7970 is around %50 bigger and 384 bit. Apples and oranges once again.
 

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#54
well seeing that im using a 22" 1080P monitor, anything that I do get will last me at least 2 years. I used crossfired 512mb 4850s til last Dec before upgrading to my HD 6870 1GB, so im sure the performance of a HD7870/7950 or 660Ti will be more than enough till 2014.
660TI gets my vote
 

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#55
660 Ti is NOT mid-range card. It's the third card based on the high-end chip (even if it was originally the performance chip). The 4890 was definitely not the 7970 of the time and was really not high end. Die size of the HD4890 was 256 mm^2 which is little more than Pitcairn the chip on HD7870. It was also 256 bit. Tahiti 7970 is around %50 bigger and 384 bit. Apples and oranges once again.
660ti is MID range albeit at the high end of mid range just like 560ti is mid range all the same. The HD 4890 was AMDs highest end card of the 4xxx series so it was the 7970 of the the time and yes cards were naturally not as powerful back then as well the games were less demanding LOL.
 
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#56
660ti is MID range albeit at the high end of mid range just like 560ti is mid range all the same. The HD 4890 was AMDs highest end card of the 4xxx series so it was the 7970 of the the time and yes cards were naturally not as powerful back then as well the games were less demanding LOL.
Things are not what you want them to be. They are what they are and the 660 Ti is based on the exact same chip as GTX680 and is high-end.

The GTX560 Ti was based on a different, much smaller chip than the GTX580 and thus was mid-range. Although actually it was performance class, GTX550 was mid-range. When there's 3 chips in the lineup mid-range is apropriate for the middle chip, but when there's 4 the apropriate or accepted name for the second is "performance chip". Nvidia's mid-range will launch in a couple of weeks. Let's talk then about if pricing is correct or not compared to previous mid-range and performance chips.

RV770/790 was the consequence of AMD's small die strategy, which as AMD themselves said consisted on making chips for serving the mid-range/performace class of cards while X2 dual-GPU cards would seve the high-end. It was demostrated that was not viable and so they abandoned the idea. HD4800 was never high-end. Because of the strategy, because of die size and because of the price it launched at.
 
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#57
Go for the 7950, and a custom-cooled one at that, like the Gigabyte Windforce 7950 I just bought last week new for $319. Flashed the card (it has a dual bios switch) using the Gigabyte Windforce 7970 bios and now it's running nice and cool at 1GHz core and 1375MHz memory (the default is 900MHz on the Windforce 7950 - 100MHz above the old reference 7950 speed). Yes the card can go over 1100MHz, but I wanted to just flash the bios and have all the fan speeds and cooler keep the card below 70 degrees, which it does.

Of course, I have 3 x 1680x1050 monitors, so I'm running at 5240x1050 resolution, so I really wanted to get the 3Gb video memory on this card. All in all, I'd say a custom cooled 7950 with a dual bios is your best option. If you really don't want to blow over ~$250, though, you'd be better off grabbing a Gigabyte 7870. In Canada, you can get one for $230 after $20 MIR.
 

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#58
Here and here...
http://img.techpowerup.org/120904/bf3_1920_1200.gif

High AA/AF settings, 660Ti still wins.

Also, this guy is $360 after rebates....

EDIT: Another comparison
ya a game that was soley built upon NV arch, read the entire review before posting single shots...

Also Numbering Sequence i recall, is that 660, 670, 680- 680 being high end 670 being mid range and 660 being budget. adding the LE, SE, Ti etc allowed a position of performance level within its class...

sequencing had it back in the day as this MX, GTS, GTS Pro, TI, Ultra
 
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#59
go for the 7950, and a custom-cooled one at that, like the gigabyte windforce 7950 i just bought last week new for $319. Flashed the card (it has a dual bios switch) using the gigabyte windforce 7970 bios and now it's running nice and cool at 1ghz core and 1375mhz memory (the default is 900mhz on the windforce 7950 - 100mhz above the old reference 7950 speed). Yes the card can go over 1100mhz, but i wanted to just flash the bios and have all the fan speeds and cooler keep the card below 70 degrees, which it does.

Of course, i have 3 x 1680x1050 monitors, so i'm running at 5240x1050 resolution, so i really wanted to get the 3gb video memory on this card. All in all, i'd say a custom cooled 7950 with a dual bios is your best option. If you really don't want to blow over ~$250, though, you'd be better off grabbing a gigabyte 7870. In canada, you can get one for $230 after $20 mir.
+1
 

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#60
In due honesty Id recommend either a 670 or a 7950, 660 seems to be pretty limited...
 

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#61
Just get my card, and you'll be happy... :)
 

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#62
Things are not what you want them to be. They are what they are and the 660 Ti is based on the exact same chip as GTX680 and is high-end.

The GTX560 Ti was based on a different, much smaller chip than the GTX580 and thus was mid-range. Although actually it was performance class, GTX550 was mid-range. When there's 3 chips in the lineup mid-range is apropriate for the middle chip, but when there's 4 the apropriate or accepted name for the second is "performance chip". Nvidia's mid-range will launch in a couple of weeks. Let's talk then about if pricing is correct or not compared to previous mid-range and performance chips.

RV770/790 was the consequence of AMD's small die strategy, which as AMD themselves said consisted on making chips for serving the mid-range/performace class of cards while X2 dual-GPU cards would seve the high-end. It was demostrated that was not viable and so they abandoned the idea. HD4800 was never high-end. Because of the strategy, because of die size and because of the price it launched at.
680 and 670 are high end 660ti is start or the end of the mid range line up depending on how you see it period. 7970 and 7950 are high end 7870 is mid range just because nvidias 660ti mid range is faster than amds does not make it a high end card even if it is the same chip as the 680. IF x60ti is in the name IT IS MID RANGE end of discussion.
 
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#63
680 and 670 are high end 660ti is start or the end of the mid range line up depending on how you see it period. 7970 and 7950 are high end 7870 is mid range just because nvidias 660ti mid range is faster than amds does not make it a high end card even if it is the same chip as the 680. IF x60ti is in the name IT IS MID RANGE end of discussion.
Neither the name nor you dictate what is mid-range and what high-end. Chip used and performance of the card relative to other cards in the lineup does, as well as price. 660 Ti is not mid-range period.

Or what. HD6870 and 7870 are high-end or mid-range? 5870 was definitely high-end (HD4870 too acording to you), so 6870 and 7870 (and HD_850's too) are high end right? In the end it's all in the name. Come on, I'm really interested in how are you going to rationalize that. It's going to be funny.

Oh and I guess that GTX 260 was mid-range too. Despite being based on the biggest chip ever made by Nvidia, being the second fastest card in the lineup at release and costing $450 at launch, because you know, it has a 6 in the name...

On topic: either 660 Ti, 670 or 7950 are good options, similar bang for buck, just slight differences in perf. I chose 660 Ti because it comes with Borderlands and since OP is interested in buying that game it's an extra savings of $50, plus it's the cheapest one. But you can't go wrong either way.
 
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eidairaman1

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#64
Neither the name nor you dictate what is mid-range and what high-end. Chip used and performance of the card relative to other cards in the lineup does, as well as price. 660 Ti is not mid-range period.

Or what. HD6870 and 7870 are high-end or mid-range? 5870 was definitely high-end (HD4870 too acording to you), so 6870 and 7870 (and HD_850's too) are high end right? In the end it's all in the name. Come on, I'm really interested in how are you going to rationalize that. It's going to be funny.
:rolleyes:

Go find a woman and get laid
 

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#66
:laugh: Where do you think I've been since the previous post?? Good contribution to the thread btw. Attack the messenger already? You didn't even intervene.
lmao and you stopped just to post on here if you claim you were in the middle of something haha.
 
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#67
lmao and you stopped just to post on here if you claim you were in the middle of something haha.
LOL last post was at 6 PM (here). New one (now), it's 1:40 AM. Nearly 6 hours later. Let's see I'm Superman? No, I'm human. 6 hours sex, no. Check. Do I want to spend 6+ hours with a woman AFTER sex. Hmm. No, thank you. Do i want go home, yes.
 

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#68
LOL last post was at 6 PM (here). New one (now), it's 1:40 AM. Nearly 6 hours later. Let's see I'm Superman? No, I'm human. 6 hours sex, no. Check. Do I want to spend 6+ hours with a woman AFTER sex. Hmm. No, thank you. Do i want go home, yes.
lmao ya hear that dude:laugh:
 

Black Mesa

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#69
Neither the name nor you dictate what is mid-range and what high-end. Chip used and performance of the card relative to other cards in the lineup does, as well as price. 660 Ti is not mid-range period.

Or what. HD6870 and 7870 are high-end or mid-range? 5870 was definitely high-end (HD4870 too acording to you), so 6870 and 7870 (and HD_850's too) are high end right? In the end it's all in the name. Come on, I'm really interested in how are you going to rationalize that. It's going to be funny.

Oh and I guess that GTX 260, being the second fastest card in the lineup at release and costing $450 at launch, because you know, it has a 6 in the name...

On topic: either 660 Ti, 670 or 7950 are good options, similar bang for buck, just slight differences in perf. I chose 660 Ti because it comes with Borderlands and since OP is interested in buying that game it's an extra savings of $50, plus it's the cheapest one. But you can't go wrong either way.
AMD and nvidia SKUs are different man the 4870 was an odd ball because there was a 4890 and the 4890 high end card performed like a GTX 275 and the 4870 mid range performed like a GTX 260 mid range. 8800GT mid range, GTX260 mid range, GTX460/GTX560 mid range, GTX560ti mid range , GTX 660ti mid range. Note they are all the third card in there respective line up except the re branded GTX 560 which is actually GTX 460 and they all have MID RANGE performance and price. Obviously the GTX 260 had to play double duty at one point shame on nvidia for over charging for that slow POS LOL.

"Nvidia Announces the (Mid-Range GeForce GTX 660 Ti)"
http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/122/1225766p1.html

"Nvidia launching the (mid-range GTX 660Ti) in August
Many gamers have undoubtedly been anxiously waiting for the availability of Nvidia’s next mid-range GPU, the GTX 660Ti,"
http://www.todaystechonline.com/gaming/nvidia-launching-mid-range-gtx-660ti-august/

"NVIDIA is rounding out their Kepler lineup today, releasing their (mid-range GTX 660 Ti.)"
http://www.overclockers.com/evga-gtx-660ti-sc-gpu-review

"NVIDIA returns with a 150W (mid-range) solution that beats their former flagship."
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=952&Itemid=72

"The long-awaited mid-range Kepler cards are finally here"
http://www.dvhardware.net/review/73247

Seems you are the only one thinking that 660ti was to be a high end entry.
 
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#70
Yeah whatever. GTX 260 mid-range yeah. 8800 GT mid-range. :laugh:

Oh lol and now HD4870 is mid-range and 4890 high-end. :laugh:

I couldn't care less what some stupid press said. In last conference call Jen Hsun Huang said he was very excited saying that they would finally release their mid-range cards next quarter.

...And we’re about to introduce and we just started ramping into it, our Kepler GPU that is targeted squarely at the gamers. And the segment starts out at about $99.00 and goes all the way up to about $249.00.

And those segments, we haven’t been able to address until now. And we’ve not been able to address it because we just haven’t had enough supply. And now that the supply is starting to catch up and gives us enough supply to launch into that segment and that segment is just dying for Kepler, and finally we’re be able to bring Kepler to them.
http://www.techpowerup.com/171748/NVIDIA-Plans-Two-New-SKUs-Based-on-GK106.html
And oh what's this? Oh, 3 SKUs based on GK106? Maybe the mid-range parts maybe maybe? :rolleyes:;)
 
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Black Mesa

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#71
Yeah whatever. GTX 260 mid-range yeah. 8800 GT mid-range. :laugh:

Oh lol and now HD4870 is mid-range and 4890 high-end. :laugh:

I couldn't care less what some stupid press said. In last conference call Jen Hsun Huang said he was very excited saying that they would finally release their mid-range cards next quarter.



http://www.techpowerup.com/171748/NVIDIA-Plans-Two-New-SKUs-Based-on-GK106.html
And oh what's this? Oh, 3 SKUs based on GK106? Maybe the mid-range parts maybe maybe? :rolleyes:;)
Everyone agrees that 660ti is mid range even nvidia. GTX 560 & GTX 560ti is MID RANGE, GTX 660 & GTX 660ti is MID RANGE.
 
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#72
Everyone agrees that 660ti is mid range even nvidia. GTX 560 & GTX 560ti is MID RANGE, GTX 660 & GTX 660ti is MID RANGE.
Not true at all, not everybody agrees only missinformed people, who at the time of writing that, still believed GK106 mid-range didn't even exist. Certainly not true about Nvidia, since Nvidia has compared the card to the GTX 260 and GTX 470, which are not mid-range at all.



So yeah you can continue pretending that a name makes a product, or accept that a name is just a name and Nvidia like everybody else is free to name their cards whatever way they like. JHH, Nvidia's CEO has already said it, no mid-range yet, will release this quarter and like the TPU news story shows, 3 SKU no less (+ 1 Quadro).

- Nvidia's marketing material puts the GTX660 Ti against GTX 260 and GTX470 high-end cards, not GTS 250 and GTX 460.
- it performs like high-end card.
- it costs like high-end card.
- it uses high-end chip.
- it's high-end
 

Black Mesa

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#73
Not true at all, not everybody agrees only missinformed people, who at the time of writing that, still believed GK106 mid-range didn't even exist. Certainly not true about Nvidia, since Nvidia has compared the card to the GTX 260 and GTX 470, which are not mid-range at all.

http://img.techpowerup.org/120906/compar.jpg

So yeah you can continue pretending that a name makes a product, or accept that a name is just a name and Nvidia like everybody else is free to name their cards whatever way they like. JHH, Nvidia's CEO has already said it, no mid-range yet, will release this quarter and like the TPU news story shows, 3 SKU no less (+ 1 Quadro).

- Nvidia's marketing material puts the GTX660 Ti against GTX 260 and GTX470 high-end cards, not GTS 250 and GTX 460.
- it performs like high-end card.
- it costs like high-end card.
- it uses high-end chip.
- it's high-end
What happened to -
I couldn't care less what some stupid press said.
nvidia probably compared the 660ti to cards from THREE & FOUR generations past because it makes the 660ti look far more powerful than if they compared the 660ti to the GTX 560ti and GTX 570 like the rightly should have. Once again you have contradicted you're story and look like an ignorant ass.
 
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#74
nvidia probably compared the 660ti to cards from THREE & FOUR generations past because it makes the 660ti look far more powerful than if they compared the 660ti to the GTX 560ti and GTX 570 like the rightly should have. Once again you have contradicted you're story and look like an ignorant ass.
Oh I won! No valid argument -> resort to personal attack -> I win! ;)

FYI I couldn't care less about what some missinformed press says on their articles (i.e. Gamespy?? you gotta be kidding me). What Nvidia says on their own promotional material, and in the conference call from JHH no less, of course I care, since it's Nvidia the only one who can say what the GTX660 Ti is and you know what? It's not mid-range.

And yeah, probably... maybe... what if, bla bla. They compared it to 260 and 470 because those where the equivalents in the previous generations. GTX 570 was not new generation just a reformed GTX470.

EDIT: I'm done anyway. We both (you and me) and Jen Hsun Huang agree that mid-range ends in the $250 area. JHH has said they have yet to release a card in the mid-range. Those cards have already been identified and will launch next week or so. End of story.
 
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Black Mesa

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#75
Oh I won! No valid argument -> resort to personal attack -> I win! ;)

FYI I couldn't care less about what some missinformed press says on their articles (i.e. Gamespy?? you gotta be kidding me). What Nvidia says on their own promotional material, and in the conference call from JHH no less, of course I care, since it's Nvidia the only one who can say what the GTX660 Ti is and you know what? It's not mid-range.

And yeah, probably... maybe... what if, bla bla. They compared it to 260 and 470 because those where the equivalents in the previous generations. GTX 570 was not new generation just a reformed GTX470.

EDIT: I'm done anyway. We both (you and me) and Jen Hsun Huang agree that mid-range ends in the $250 area. JHH has said they have yet to release a card in the mid-range. Those cards have already been identified and will launch next week or so. End of story.
Uh no 660ti is MID RANGE ! only you think 660ti is as powerful as the high end 670/680.
 
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