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Upgrading platform, now or later?

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#1
So hey, I've been thinking about upgrading my motherboard, CPU and RAM some time soon, because my 5 years old C2D setup is starting to show its age. I'm honestly more annoyed by my 4GB RAM running out and my shitty unbalanced sound card than the actual speed though, haha.

The Haswell platform seems like a nice upgrade, but I'm not in a rush (as you plainly can see from my ancient setup). So should I wait for the next generation of Intel CPUs, seeing as this last generation wasn't anything special, or should I just go for this one?

I've heard rumors about Intel focusing solely on mobile with the next generation, that they won't release any desktop CPUs with the Broadwell shrink and skip to Skylake. How likely is that and would it simply take too long to wait for the next generation?

How worried do I need to be about the "Nvidia Redemption"? I'm very much planning on overclocking, but if my future performance is gonna suffer, then I'm unsure. And should I avoid Asus Z77/87 motherboards?

Parts I'd probably get if I'm going with the current gen Haswell: i5 4670K, 16GB 1600MHz RAM and a motherboard with good onboard sound (possibly the Asus ROG Hero), alternatively a good separate soundcard with a cheaper motherboard.

Feel free to recommend some parts here if you'd like, BUT please provide reasoning as to why this part is better than competing parts. Fanboys can just get the fuck out :love:
 

Frick

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#2
Go for Haswell, it just came out. The waiting game never ends.

As for the specifics, dunno. Me personally I'd go with the i7 if I had the money, but that there CPU is nice as well.
 
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#3
swear to god, i was in your position til not so long ago

i was contemplating between upgrading to ivy or haswell (cpu/mobo/ram) and i end up chosing ivy because its a tad cheaper and read that with or without delidding- haswell still ran warmer than ivy (if that matters to you)

also, i wasnt sure what direction haswell/haswell refresh/broadwell was going, i read A LOT of articles (mostly early in the year ones though) to a point where i was pulling my hair out and i just said "f* it, stop being a bitch(to myself) and just go for it!" and scooped up a ivy bridge setup that i should be getting sometime this week.

1155 is pretty much a dead socket now, whereas 1150 will have haswell and its possible haswell refresh (if i did my research right) so you can get haswell now, and get the refresh later if you wanted.

either way, whatever you get ivy or haswell, you'll be good to go for a longgggggggggggg time
i got the i7 ivy just because well, since im stopping at ivy might as well go big
 
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#4
So, anybody that knows anything about the Broadwell rumors or the Nvidia Redemption?
As for the specifics, dunno. Me personally I'd go with the i7 if I had the money, but that there CPU is nice as well.
Fuck no. 4670 is WAAY better in price/performance than the 4770.
Only reason I got money is because I spend it intelligently. I don't make stupid decisions like that.
swear to god, i was in your position til not so long ago

i was contemplating between upgrading to ivy or haswell (cpu/mobo/ram) and i end up chosing ivy because its a tad cheaper and read that with or without delidding- haswell still ran warmer than ivy (if that matters to you)

1155 is pretty much a dead socket now, whereas 1150 will have haswell and its possible haswell refresh (if i did my research right) so you can get haswell now, and get the refresh later if you wanted.

i got the i7 ivy just because well, since im stopping at ivy might as well go big
No need for swearing, nor god for that matter.

Heat very much matters to me, but I think the overall heat is actually reduced with the Haswell CPUs. Sure, the CPU might get hotter, but your motherboard will be cooler, because the part that is affecting the heat was previously on the motherboard and was moved to the CPU.
And powerdraw is reduced with the Haswell CPUs, so honestly, I'm not even considering Ivy Bridge. Especially since their prices are the same in most stores over here.
If you had the choice between Haswell and Ivy Bridge and the difference in price was small then I can't say I think you made a wise choice..(that's a minor thing tho)
But, why do people buy i7 when they clearly don't need them? ;_;

What makes you say that the 1150 will get the Haswell refresh? 1156 didn't get the Sandy Bridge refresh, for example.
 

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#5
Fuck no. 4670 is WAAY better in price/performance than the 4770.
Only reason I got money is because I spend it intelligently. I don't make stupid decisions like that.

No need for swearing, nor god for that matter.
:laugh:

Anyway, hyperthreading. For the right applications it's worth it, but evidentily you're not interested in that so whatever.
 
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#6
Anyway, hyperthreading. For the right applications it's worth it, but evidentily you're not interested in that so whatever.
No, seriously, even with hyperthreading support the i5 still has better price/performance, and that's just for the applications that support it.
The difference is HUGE. There is no reasonable argument for getting the 4770 if you're mindful of your spending.
 
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#7
there is an excuse for buying an i7: you can run a bunch of game servers, stream, listen to music and play games all at the same time which is why my friend has a 4Ghz 3930K. He runs a small WoW server, a huge feed the beast(a really big mod pack where if you build a big enough machine you can kill servers) minecraft server, teamspeak server, renders videos and plays games all on the same machine so the hexa with hyperthreading is always busy.
Also if you're so money orientated why are you planning 16GB of RAM especially with an i5 if you're running something that needs more than 8GB of RAM then you should be using an i7 because the i5 is not for multitasking.
But either way just buy whatever haswell processor you like because broardwell will be the same thing on a smaller node.
 

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#8
Upgrade now. You will see quite a boost. And any board will do as the sound chips on most LGA1150 z87 boards are quite good. Realtek ALC 892/898/1150.
 

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#9
No, seriously, even with hyperthreading support the i5 still has better price/performance, and that's just for the applications that support it.
The difference is HUGE. There is no reasonable argument for getting the 4770 if you're mindful of your spending.
Sounds like you don't have a clue. Sure the i5 is fine for gaming since most aren't multi threaded fully quite yet, but in apps like video encoding and decoding, etc. that actually benefit from extra threads/cores, i7 is quite a bit better then i5.

Just because you don't actually use the apps that do benefit from more threads, does not mean that there is no reasonable reason in opting for the i7 over the i5 in a general sense.

I got my 4770k because games will take advantage of extra threads once next gen consoles release, which both have 8 core CPUs. More and more games, ported from the consoles to PC will be multi threaded. Just food for thought.

But seriously upgrade to Haswell.
 
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#10
there is an excuse for buying an i7: you can run a bunch of game servers, stream, listen to music and play games all at the same time which is why my friend has a 4Ghz 3930K.
[He does a lot of things at the same time] so the hexa with hyperthreading is always busy.
Not excuse, reason*. There are obviously reasons to buy an i7. BUT AS I CLEARLY STATED: "There is no reasonable argument for getting the 4770 if you're mindful of your spending."
Also if you're so money orientated why are you planning 16GB of RAM especially with an i5 if you're running something that needs more than 8GB of RAM then you should be using an i7 because the i5 is not for multitasking.
Oh wow... I hit the fucking jackpot, didn't I? --.--
You have no freaking clue of what you're writing about. I'm not even sure explaining will help..
 

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#11
Not excuse, reason*. There are obviously reasons to buy an i7. BUT AS I CLEARLY STATED: "There is no reasonable argument for getting the 4770 if you're mindful of your spending."

Oh wow... I hit the fucking jackpot, didn't I? --.--
You have no freaking clue of what you're writing about. I'm not even sure explaining will help..
Seems like you know so much already, whats the point of making a thread then? :p
 
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#12
And any board will do as the sound chips on most LGA1150 z87 boards are quite good. Realtek ALC 892/898/1150.
Okay, thanks.
You're the first person provided relevant information. What basis for comparison do you have for calling that sound good?
Sounds like you don't have a clue. Sure the i5 is fine for gaming since most aren't multi threaded fully quite yet, but in apps like video encoding and decoding, etc. that actually benefit from extra threads/cores, i7 is quite a bit better then i5.

Just because you don't actually use the apps that do benefit from more threads, does not mean that there is no reasonable reason in opting for the i7 over the i5 in a general sense.
Actually, I think you're mistaken.

The 4770K costs about 50% more than the 4670K(here in Sweden, the difference in the US is about 42% for most stores). Which means that it needs to be 50% faster in mutithreaded applications to have comparable price/performance in those instances.
But these benchmarks (in multithreaded applications, obviously) show pretty clearly that the 4770K simple does not reach such performances advantages:
Truecrypt: ~42% faster
7-zip: ~37% faster
Cinebench R11.5: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, first pass: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, second pass: 18% faster
Blender 2.66a: ~34% faster

Which is an average of 32.5% faster WITH good multithreading support. That is a considerable amount below 50%, and even 42%.

The 4670K has better price/performance than the 4770K even in applications with good multithreading support. That is a FACT.
 
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#13
Fuck no. 4670 is WAAY better in price/performance than the 4770.


No need for swearing, nor god for that matter.
HUH??????:confused::wtf::confused::wtf:
 
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#14

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#15
Okay, thanks.
You're the first person provided relevant information. What basis for comparison do you have for calling that sound good?

Actually, I think you're mistaken.

The 4770K costs about 50% more than the 4670K(here in Sweden, the difference in the US is about 42% for most stores). Which means that it needs to be 50% faster in mutithreaded applications to have comparable price/performance in those instances.
But these benchmarks (in multithreaded applications, obviously) show pretty clearly that the 4770K simple does not reach such performances advantages:
Truecrypt: ~42% faster
7-zip: ~37% faster
Cinebench R11.5: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, first pass: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, second pass: 18% faster
Blender 2.66a: ~34% faster

Which is an average of 32.5% faster WITH good multithreading support. That is a considerable amount below 50%, and even 42%.

The 4670K has better price/performance than the 4770K even in applications with good multithreading support. That is a FACT.
Okay, well you will soon learn that if something is more expensive by a certain percent, then the performance of it will never match the price increase, regardless. IMO ~32% is easily worth the premium, if you use such apps.

And just wait till things become more multi thread dependent, especially games (Battlefield is one that is pretty close to that point already), i7s will be worth it.

I got my 4770k in anticipation of that, and because I do video editing as a side hobby. 4770k cut my encoding times in half compared to the 2500k I had before.

But get the 4670k if you already have your mindset on the whole price/performance stuff (Maybe you should consider AMD FX chips if price/performance is really that big of a deal to you), no one is telling you to do otherwise, we are just trying to get you to understand where the 4770k is worth it over the 4670k.
 

Frick

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#16
If all you're after is the maximum price/performance ratio, then you're right you shouldn't get the i7. For some people 30% is a MASSIVE difference though, so just stating as fact that it's dumb to get one if you're mindful of spending is crazy. It all comes down to what you do, and how much you're willing to pay. A thing to consider is that multithreading is the new thang, so eight threads will theoretically last longer than four. If you're planning on keeping it as long as that C2D it could be a good move.

And about Broadwell: It's all speculations at this point. There is info here and there that say it will have an LGA release but that it will require a new motherboard. And presumably you'd need yet another motherboard for Skylake. Intel is not big on backwards compatibility. I'm sure you already have read that, but again: Speculation. Besides, that is a year away.

In short: If you are very worried, wait for more solid info. But on the other hand, then we'll have Skylake and its successor to speculate about. The waiting game never ends, sooner or later you have to make a decision.

And about that Nvidia thing: Also speculation at this point. That and this AMD Mantle thing is very interesting, and the coming months shall be very interesting indeed. If you really are worried about that, wait. At least that information shouldn't be far away.
 
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#17
Okay, well you will soon learn that if something is more expensive by a certain percent, then the performance of it will never match the price increase, regardless. IMO ~32% is easily worth the premium, if you use such apps.
That's not always true.
Things usually have worse price/performance at the top tier of products.
And it can vary greatly between the bottom and the middle.
I find that generally you're getting the best price/performance if you're buying around the middle tier. Those are usually the products that get sold the most, and as a result the companies compete harder over that space, which results in things like price cuts and more features and such.
But get the 4670k if you already have your mindset on the whole price/performance stuff (Maybe you should consider AMD FX chips if price/performance is really that big of a deal to you), no one is telling you to do otherwise, we are just trying to get you to understand where the 4770k is worth it over the 4670k.
Sigh..
No, the 4770K is not worth it over the 4670K. I can state that as a fact, because this thread is about me. Not you.
I do video encoding too, but I don't consider a 25% increase in speed to be worth 50% more. And I'm certainly not using 7-zip enough to make use of those 42%.
The 4770K might be worth it to you, but not me.
We clearly have different preferences. Don't push your preferences on me..

No, the AMD CPUs are not as good for general-purpose computing and they draw much more power(about double even).
 

brandonwh64

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#18
Fuck no. 4670 is WAAY better in price/performance than the 4770.
Only reason I got money is because I spend it intelligently. I don't make stupid decisions like that.


Actually, I think you're mistaken.

The 4770K costs about 50% more than the 4670K(here in Sweden, the difference in the US is about 42% for most stores). Which means that it needs to be 50% faster in mutithreaded applications to have comparable price/performance in those instances.
But these benchmarks (in multithreaded applications, obviously) show pretty clearly that the 4770K simple does not reach such performances advantages:
Truecrypt: ~42% faster
7-zip: ~37% faster
Cinebench R11.5: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, first pass: ~32% faster
x264 encoding, second pass: 18% faster
Blender 2.66a: ~34% faster

Which is an average of 32.5% faster WITH good multithreading support. That is a considerable amount below 50%, and even 42%.

The 4670K has better price/performance than the 4770K even in applications with good multithreading support. That is a FACT.

More and more games are utilizing the multithread cpu's so take BF3/4 for example and run with it.

Sigh..
No, the 4770K is not worth it over the 4670K. I can state that as a fact, because this thread is about me. Not you.
I do video encoding too, but I don't consider a 25% increase in speed to be worth 50% more. And I'm certainly not using 7-zip enough to make use of those 42%.
The 4770K might be worth it to you, but not me.
We clearly have different preferences. Don't push your preferences on me..

No, the AMD CPUs are not as good for general-purpose computing and they draw much more power(about double even).
Yep mind has been made up then just buy what you already are arguing about..
 
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#19
If all you're after is the maximum price/performance ratio, then you're right you shouldn't get the i7. It all comes down to what you do, and how much you're willing to pay.
Thank you. Finally there is reason. :respect:
For some people 30% is a MASSIVE difference though, so just stating as fact that it's dumb to get one if you're mindful of spending is crazy.
Well, one would have to define the parameters more strictly to even come close to calling such a thing fact. And even then 'crazy' is a highly relative term.
Besides, that wasn't the part I was calling fact :p
A thing to consider is that multithreading is the new thang, so eight threads will theoretically last longer than four. If you're planning on keeping it as long as that C2D it could be a good move.
Well, yes. Obviously. But even with good multithreading it will only last me about 30% longer, we have the numbers :p
And without good multithreading the difference is less than 10%.
You don't measure lastability in threads, you measure it in performance. Threads may increase performance, but it's not a 1:1 correlation.
And about Broadwell: It's all speculations at this point. There are info here and there that say it will have an LGA release but that it will require a new motherboard. And presumably you'd need yet another motherboard for Skylake. Intel is not big on backwards compatibility. I'm sure you already have read that, but again: Speculation. Besides, that is a year away.
Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.
In short: If you are very worried, wait for more solid info. But on the other hand, then we'll have Skylake and its successor to speculate about. The waiting game never ends, sooner or later you have to make a decision.
Yeah, it seems likely that I will go with Haswell, I'm just really worried about the whole Redemption deal.
And about that Nvidia thing: Also speculation at this point. That and this AMD Mantle thing is very interesting, and the coming months shall be very interesting indeed. If you really are worried about that, wait. At least that information shouldn't be far away.
Yeah.
Unless I know I can't get proper support with Haswell I'm not gonna wait. I'm gonna try and see if I can get some more info on which parts support such technology and which doesn't before I make my decision.
Apparently there's some problem with K CPUs and IOMMU, which is a bit of a problem as I'd like to overclock my CPU.
 
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#20
More and more games are utilizing the multithread cpu's so take BF3/4 for example and run with it.
Thank you for your highly informative addition to this thread. You may see yourself out now.
Yep mind has been made up then just buy what you already are arguing about..
This is what happens when people ignore my questions.
I did not ask whether to buy the 4670 or 4770.
 

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#21
If you are going to use the rig for another 6 years or so I think 4770 is worth a long hard look. Not so useful now, but in 5-6 years time I am pretty sure a lot of games will be using many many threads. Its only going to add ~10% to the final bill.
 

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#22
Thank you for your highly informative addition to this thread. You may see yourself out now.

This is what happens when people ignore my questions.
I did not ask whether to buy the 4670 or 4770.
You pretty much asked a question then ridiculed the people answering it. Really just build whatever plays mindsweeper and call it a day
 
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#23
You pretty much asked a question then ridiculed the people answering it. Really just build whatever plays mindsweeper and call it a day
I know reading can be hard, but maybe you just don't belong in forums if that's something you have a problem with.
If you are going to use the rig for another 6 years or so I think 4770 is worth a long hard look. Not so useful now, but in 5-6 years time I am pretty sure a lot of games will be using many many threads. Its only going to add ~10% to the final bill.
About 5 years is probably a good estimation.
And nah. Still don't think it's worth it.

Well, no. '10% to the final bill' is not good comparison. I need to consider the price of the CPU only in these sorts of comparisons, otherwise they easily get skewed. I mean, just because my CPU is 30% faster doesn't mean that my entire PC will be, the total speed depends on many factors.
I am also upgrading my platform, GPU and HDD/SDD setups independently, so I can take care of a bottleneck when I need to.
 

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#24
I know reading can be hard, but maybe you just don't belong in forums if that's something you have a problem with.

About 5 years is probably a good estimation.
And nah. Still don't think it's worth it.

Well, no. '10% to the final bill' is not good comparison. I need to consider the price of the CPU only in these sorts of comparisons, otherwise they easily get skewed. I mean, just because my CPU is 30% faster doesn't mean that my entire PC will be, the total speed depends on many factors.
I am also upgrading my platform, GPU and HDD/SDD setups independently, so I can take care of a bottleneck when I need to.
If you are going to be an ass hat to people trying to answer your questions, and help you, you can see yourself out. We don't tolerate that shit here.

Seems to me that you already know exactly what you want and need so just buy it and be done with it.
 

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#25
I know reading can be hard, but maybe you just don't belong in forums if that's something you have a problem with.
You are making a HUGH first impression! Keep it up!
 
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