• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

UPS Battery Longevity

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
So my third Prolink 650VA UPS's battery cell just flat-lined (sort of, it could only hold 2-6 seconds of charge) & I'm just curious; how many years does these battery cells typically last anyway? All of my previous UPS is the same model, one had it's battery cell replaced, yet none of the battery lasted more than 2 years. Is that the typical lifespan of a UPS battery cell or is it just Prolink's battery longevity or maybe cuz of my typical constant blackout usage case?
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
16,697 (3.45/day)
Location
UK\US
Processor 2500k \ AMD 3900X+NH-D15
Motherboard ASRock Z68 \ ASRock AM4 Pro 4
Memory Samsung low profile 1600 \ Patriot 2x16GB PVS432G320C6K
Video Card(s) eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX R9 390X
Storage 2xIntel 80Gb (SATA2) Crucial MX500 \ Samsung 860 1TB +Samsung Evo 250GB+500GB+ 2xCorsair Force 120GB
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ Toshiba HDTV 1080P
Case HTPC400 \ Thermaltake Armor case ( VE2000BWS ), With Zalman fan controller ( wattage usage ).
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-A820 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 Infinity RS4000 Paradigm 5SE + Tannoy Mercury F4
Power Supply PC&Power 750w \ Seasonic 750w MKII
Mouse Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ ROCCAT MK Pro ( modded amber leds )
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
i get about 3-4 years typical, how ever i shutdown every thing on them if the power goes down. Your going to get less time the more you drain them so i just use them to be able shut every thing down as normal.
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
i get about 3-4 years typical, how ever i shutdown every thing on them if the power goes down. Your going to get less time the more you drain them so i just use them to be able shut every thing down as normal.
Well, I do leave my UPS still on even after shutting down my desktop & netbook PC until the UPS is drained empty or power is back on. Would that contribute to my shorter UPS battery lifespan or negatively in anyway?
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
55 (0.23/day)
Mine have gone 5yrs on the apc originals and 6yrs on the replacements (still give a 30+ min charge according to software). Never had so much as a brown out on either tho.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
2,186 (0.42/day)
System Name It's just a computer
Processor i9-9900K
Motherboard eVGA Z390 Dark
Cooling Dual D5T Vario in XSPC BayRes, Nemesis GTR560, Noctua NF-A14-iPPC2000 (x8), HK IV Pro Nickel
Memory G.Skill F4-4500C19D-16GTZKKE or G.Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZ
Video Card(s) eVGA RTX2080 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 EVO M.2
Display(s) LG 32GK650F
Case Thermaltake Xaser VI
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G/Z-5500
Power Supply Corsair AX1200
Mouse Logitech
Keyboard Logitech
Software Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
My APC is 13 years old, on fourth set of batteries.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
7,380 (1.43/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
or maybe cuz of my typical constant blackout usage case?
3-5 years is typical. But it can vary greatly depending on how often the UPS kicks over to battery, the demand (load) on the batteries when running on battery, heat within the UPS, and other factors too. If your grid is frequently failing, that sure would affect the lifespan of the UPS batteries.

I have had cells barely last 2 years and then I have had cells last more than 6 years. There is no set rule.

Note that 650VA is not very big either. I cannot find complete specs for your Prolink 650W so I can cannot find what value they use for power factor (PF). The PF value is a variable used in formulas to convert volt/amps (VA) to watts (W).

I have seen power factor values anywhere from .5 all the way up to .9. Typically, unless otherwise specified, .6 is used. I note Cyberpower and APC often use .6 for PF and again, that is pretty typical.

So to convert VA to W, you use the formula, VA x PF = W. So in your case, 650VA x .6PF = 390W.

What are you protecting with your UPS? I hope not your CRT monitor as they demand lots of power.

Bigger UPS are able to take more abuse from power line anomalies and bigger loads. Plus the bigger UPS typically have better response times and better regulation - not because they are bigger but because UPS makers put better features in their more expensive models. And naturally, bigger UPS are more expensive.

Some UPS have a sensitivity switch. If your grid is unstable and the UPS sensitivity is too sensitive, it may cut-over to battery much more often than needed. That is, it might be switching to battery when really the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) circuits could handle the short-term anomalies without the need to cut over to battery. So if your UPS lets you adjust the sensitivity, you might check into that.

I have a 1500VA/900W APC UPS supporting my PC, all my network gear (modem, wireless router and 4-port switch) plus "two" 24 inch LCD monitors. That is more UPS than I need but bigger UPS also provide longer battery run times. For example, if I lose power right now, I have about 50 minutes of run time. If I power off one monitor, that goes up to 65 minutes. If I power off both monitors and the computer itself, I get nearly 3 hours of battery run time that is used to keep my wireless network alive - allowing me Internet access through my notebook and cell phone long after the power outage starts.

So IMO, you might want to consider a bigger UPS when budget allows.

Also, you need to verify your wall outlets are properly wired. Faulty wiring can cause your UPS to kick over to battery power more frequently than needed. So, every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
764 (0.84/day)
Location
Arizona
System Name Space Heater MKIII
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 2600X
Motherboard MSI X470 Gaming Pro
Cooling Cryorig R1 Ultimate, 5x Cryorig XF140 fans, ARCTIC Accelero X3
Memory 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 525GB Crucial MX300, 4TB Seagate Barracuda, 8TB WD White
Display(s) Monoprice 35" 3440x1440p 100Hz
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s) Klipsch ProMedia 2.1
Power Supply EVGA 750 B3, CyberPower CST135XLU
Mouse Logitech MX Master
Keyboard Logitech G610 Orion Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
I have an APC that I got used. When I finally replaced its battery (which was the original), it was eight years old.
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
3-5 years is typical. But it can vary greatly depending on how often the UPS kicks over to battery, the demand (load) on the batteries when running on battery, heat within the UPS, and other factors too. If your grid is frequently failing, that sure would affect the lifespan of the UPS batteries.

I have had cells barely last 2 years and then I have had cells last more than 6 years. There is no set rule.

Note that 650VA is not very big either. I cannot find complete specs for your Prolink 650W so I can cannot find what value they use for power factor (PF). The PF value is a variable used in formulas to convert volt/amps (VA) to watts (W).

I have seen power factor values anywhere from .5 all the way up to .9. Typically, unless otherwise specified, .6 is used. I note Cyberpower and APC often use .6 for PF and again, that is pretty typical.

So to convert VA to W, you use the formula, VA x PF = W. So in your case, 650VA x .6PF = 390W.

What are you protecting with your UPS? I hope not your CRT monitor as they demand lots of power.

Bigger UPS are able to take more abuse from power line anomalies and bigger loads. Plus the bigger UPS typically have better response times and better regulation - not because they are bigger but because UPS makers put better features in their more expensive models. And naturally, bigger UPS are more expensive.

Some UPS have a sensitivity switch. If your grid is unstable and the UPS sensitivity is too sensitive, it may cut-over to battery much more often than needed. That is, it might be switching to battery when really the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) circuits could handle the short-term anomalies without the need to cut over to battery. So if your UPS lets you adjust the sensitivity, you might check into that.

I have a 1500VA/900W APC UPS supporting my PC, all my network gear (modem, wireless router and 4-port switch) plus "two" 24 inch LCD monitors. That is more UPS than I need but bigger UPS also provide longer battery run times. For example, if I lose power right now, I have about 50 minutes of run time. If I power off one monitor, that goes up to 65 minutes. If I power off both monitors and the computer itself, I get nearly 3 hours of battery run time that is used to keep my wireless network alive - allowing me Internet access through my notebook and cell phone long after the power outage starts.

So IMO, you might want to consider a bigger UPS when budget allows.

Also, you need to verify your wall outlets are properly wired. Faulty wiring can cause your UPS to kick over to battery power more frequently than needed. So, every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.
This is very detailed. I have wondered how to calculate VA values. Now I know. Thx for that.
First off, my Prolink UPS model is PRO700SPC. I also know the battery model detail leftover from replacement which is 12V 8.2A with "FIDA 1270" also written on it which I assume is the model number of the battery cell.
Second, I am powering my desktop PC & my netbook (which also has a flat battery) & yes, also my CRT monitor too. But it has always been able to power my systems for around 10-15 minutes which is more than enough time to close up programs & shut down both my systems.
Third, I think my wall outlet wiring is good enough since my spot was just recently renovated early last year but I'll have a check.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
117 (0.36/day)
So my third Prolink 650VA UPS's battery cell just flat-lined (sort of, it could only hold 2-6 seconds of charge) & I'm just curious; how many years does these battery cells typically last anyway? All of my previous UPS is the same model, one had it's battery cell replaced, yet none of the battery lasted more than 2 years. Is that the typical lifespan of a UPS battery cell or is it just Prolink's battery longevity or maybe cuz of my typical constant blackout usage case?

Heat is a problem and a lot of UPS units seem to put the battery under esteem duress when on full load.

650VA probably translates to around 400W ability

I got frustrated and first tried to desulfate them

and then tried replacing the battery with supercapacitors

Quality is also an issue and one is tempted to go for the cheapest. An alternative is to move to a lithium battery
which should last a lot longer but will limit the power. Dakota Lithium have an 11 year warrantee and claim
their batteries last 4 times longer than 'traditional batteries'.

There is also a strange issue where non true sine-wave UPS units can have problems with APFC power supplies
 

Attachments

Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rei
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
7,380 (1.43/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
First off, my Prolink UPS model is PRO700SPC.
Well they seem to use ~.65 for their PF value - at least according to this site which says that UPS has a 420W capacity.
I also know the battery model detail leftover from replacement which is 12V 8.2A with "FIDA 1270"
Something smells fishy there. 1270 indicates 12V 7Ah as seen here. That should be 1280 or perhaps 1282. If it really is a 1270, that means you got a less capable battery in there and it will not support its rated 650VA/420W.
But it has always been able to power my systems for around 10-15 minutes which is more than enough time to close up programs & shut down both my systems.
Okay, but all electronics tend to become less efficient as they age. So it is likely yours are demanding more power now that they are older - especially that CRT monitor which is a power hog to start with. You really need to look at replacing that CRT monitor. Plus, all batteries get weaker as they age.

BTW, you do not have to buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. I never ever do as they always charge way too much. Just make sure the dimensions are the same (they are pretty standard), you get at least the same Ah (you can always go bigger - for example, 9Ah). The voltage must be the same. And you need to make sure the terminal type is the same (see F1 vs F2 terminal connector size).
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
Well they seem to use ~.65 for their PF value - at least according to this site which says that UPS has a 420W capacity.
Well, I did get my UPS sent from Indonesia delivered by a traveling acquaintance but more specifically from this shopping site:
Good research in finding that product from the same country that I got my UPS.

Something smells fishy there. 1270 indicates 12V 7Ah as seen here. That should be 1280 or perhaps 1282. If it really is a 1270, that means you got a less capable battery in there and it will not support its rated 650VA/420W.
One of the link above does have a pic of the battery but here is also pic that I just took of the same battery.
Photo0043.jpg


Okay, but all electronics tend to become less efficient as they age. So it is likely yours are demanding more power now that they are older - especially that CRT monitor which is a power hog to start with. You really need to look at replacing that CRT monitor. Plus, all batteries get weaker as they age.
I'm reluctant in replacing my CRT monitor. Surprisingly, I am very nostalgic with it. It is after all my first & oldest hardware, it is 8 years older than me, given to me by my father 8 years ago on my 8th birthday & has not once broke down or even glitched out on me. Sure it is only 14 inch with max rez of 1024x768, 60hz, 4:3 aspect ratio & it might die on me anytime soon but I am fine with it. Power hogging is fine as long as it gives me enough time to shut down my PC which it usually does. Also the quarantine has me close up shop & tightening my funds.
I just tested this a moment ago but now even with nothing plugged into the UPS, it will only power on for 23 seconds even if it is already at full charge.
BTW, you do not have to buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. I never ever do as they always charge way too much. Just make sure the dimensions are the same (they are pretty standard), you get at least the same Ah (you can always go bigger - for example, 9Ah). The voltage must be the same. And you need to make sure the terminal type is the same (see F1 vs F2 terminal connector size).
That is good to know. I have a spare battery cell but it's for my Honda Tiger Revolution Cruiser motorbike. It's also 12V but I can't remember the Amp-hour. Will that work on any UPS in general?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
117 (0.36/day)
Best to use sealed cells for a UPS and your motorbike battery is probably refillable. Then again lead acid batteries don't store well at all and so its best not to have a spare.

I use a sealed battery on my Honda car, and that would probably make for a good UPS battery.

Power hogging can cost as 200W 24/7 can cost $200 or more in electricity per year.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
7,380 (1.43/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
You can use motor bike or even car batteries with an UPS as long as they are the correct voltage. Even small motorbike batteries will likely have more AH than these UPS batteries.

But because vehicle batteries are exposed to wide temperature swings, they typically are vented, or at least have over-pressure valves so they should not be enclosed.
but now even with nothing plugged into the UPS, it will only power on for 23 seconds even if it is already at full charge.
Yeah, its bad. Could be just age, or a shorted cell. Either way, it has to be replaced. If you leave it disconnected for a couple days and check it with a volt meter, if the voltage has dropped more than a couple decimal points, there's a short in there.

As for the labeling on that Prolink battery, it is deceiving :( because 1270 indicates 7AH across the industry.
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
Best to use sealed cells for a UPS and your motorbike battery is probably refillable. Then again lead acid batteries don't store well at all and so its best not to have a spare.

I use a sealed battery on my Honda car, and that would probably make for a good UPS battery.
Well I was planning to replace it soon since starting up my bike everyday has become a tiresome exercise in kickstarting the engine. The current one does not electric start well.
Heat is a problem and a lot of UPS units seem to put the battery under esteem duress when on full load.

650VA probably translates to around 400W ability

I got frustrated and first tried to desulfate them

and then tried replacing the battery with supercapacitors

Quality is also an issue and one is tempted to go for the cheapest. An alternative is to move to a lithium battery
which should last a lot longer but will limit the power. Dakota Lithium have an 11 year warrantee and claim
their batteries last 4 times longer than 'traditional batteries'.

There is also a strange issue where non true sine-wave UPS units can have problems with APFC power supplies
BTW, I'm really interested in that supercapacitor model. That picture with the battery sandwiched between 2 boards is really cool. Did you do it? How does it hold up?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
117 (0.36/day)
Yes, I built that super-capacitor array and it holds up a couple of minutes at 200W load if I recall correctly. I designed it so that the carrier was glued shut but one could still replace the capacitors if needed.

I stopped using it as the UPS was a ferro-resonant unit and so inefficient and this was costing me in electricity.
 
Last edited:

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
You can use motor bike or even car batteries with an UPS as long as they are the correct voltage. Even small motorbike batteries will likely have more AH than these UPS batteries.

But because vehicle batteries are exposed to wide temperature swings, they typically are vented, or at least have over-pressure valves so they should not be enclosed.
Meaning... The UPS casing has to be opened? Or at least not tightly shut?
As for the labeling on that Prolink battery, it is deceiving :( because 1270 indicates 7AH across the industry.
So it's not 8.2Ah? There is also Prolink's FIDA 1290 battery cell which says it 12V 10Ah. I take it that it is actually 12V 9Ah then?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
117 (0.36/day)
Meaning... The UPS casing has to be opened? Or at least not tightly shut?

You've seen how messy car batteries can get; best not to do it.

One reason I went sealed on my car; things stay clean.
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
Yes, I built that super-capacitor array and it holds up a couple of minutes at 200W load if I recall correctly. I designed it so that the carrier was glued shut but one could still replace the capacitors if needed.

I stopped using it as the UPS was a ferro-resonant unit and so inefficient and this was costing me in electricity.
Also seems like it won't hold my system long enough for me to shut it down. It looked so cool though.
What about that desulfate method that you mentioned. What does it do? Unfortunately your link did not enlightened me on the concept.
You've seen how messy car batteries can get; best not to do it.

One reason I went sealed on my car; things stay clean.
Well I guess that is one way to shutter the option.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
117 (0.36/day)
Well the idea is a short over-voltage pulse to drive the sulfation back into solution, but lead acid batteries have other modes of failure so I gave up on that project.

The use of lithium batteries in place of lead acid intrigues me, but I have not tried it.

For me the biggest problems was with power glitches rather than extended outages, and then even 10s was enough and the super-capacitor array covered that and more. One thing you could do is take the monitor off the UPS and use the power switch on the computer to initiate a shutdown.
 
Last edited:

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
For me the biggest problems was with power glitches rather than extended outages, and then even 10s was enough and the super-capacitor array covered that and more. One thing you could do is take the monitor off the UPS and use the power switch on the computer to initiate a shutdown.
Well, I do need to close any documents, editor & anything that requires saving progress & I usually open them & leave it open on a daily basis. Closing them all & shutting down takes about 4-6 minutes including the USB disconnect procedures.
Well the idea is a high over-voltage pulse to drive the sulfation back into solution, but lead acid batteries have other modes of failure so I gave up on this project.

The use of lithium batteries in place of lead acid intrigues me, but I have not tried it.
By lithium batteries, you mean lithium metal? Not lithium-ion or polymer right? They don't seem like a viable option as an instant back-up power.
Well, the only method I know of for reverse sulfation is through battery desulphators but there doesn't seem like a lot of info or research on pulse conditioning to warrant good desulfation means. Other than that, fully charging lead-acid batteries periodically seems to be the only known method of preventing sulfation.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
562 (2.64/day)
Location
Texas
System Name Ghetto Rigs x299 and z490 is in x99 case
Processor 9940x with optimus sigV2 & 10900k with optimus foundation
Motherboard X299 Rampage VI Apex & z490 Maximus XII Apex
Cooling D5 combo/280 GTX/ VRM water block copper/280 GTX/ D5 Top/Optimus sigV2/TitanXp/Mora 360x2
Memory Trident-Z 3600C16 4x8gb & Trident-Z 3600c16 2x8gb
Video Card(s) Titan Xp & 1080ti ftw3 need a third gpu 30 series come on
Storage 970 evo plus 500gb & 970 evo 500gb many 2.5" ssd's and regular hdd's
Display(s) 1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"
Case D450 second floor for 2nd rad x2
Audio Device(s) Built in Realtek x2
Power Supply evga 1200P2 & 1000P2 & 850P2 for mora fans
Mouse Redragon Perdition x3
Keyboard G910 & G710+x2
Software Win-7 pro and win-10 pro x2
Benchmark Scores Refer to OC.Net and tenforums.com x3
So my third Prolink 650VA UPS's battery cell just flat-lined (sort of, it could only hold 2-6 seconds of charge) & I'm just curious; how many years does these battery cells typically last anyway? All of my previous UPS is the same model, one had it's battery cell replaced, yet none of the battery lasted more than 2 years. Is that the typical lifespan of a UPS battery cell or is it just Prolink's battery longevity or maybe cuz of my typical constant blackout usage case?
Hi,
Yes 24 months or just past it's warranty lol
If you peal the manufacture sticker off you'll see the cheap China.. made battery model and number to search for and likely find it on ebay or amazon for less than the manufacture will sell one for.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,434 (0.33/day)
Location
Volos, Greece
System Name ATLAS
Processor Q6600 QUAD
Motherboard ASUS P5QC
Cooling ProlimaTech Armageddon
Memory HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX PC3-12800 1600MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD 5770 VAPOR-X
Storage WD Raptors 73Gb - Raid1 10.000rpm
Display(s) DELL U2311H
Case HEC Compucase CI-6919 Full tower (2003) moded .. hec-group.com.tw
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Music + mods Audigy front Panel (full working)
Power Supply HIPER 4M780 PE 980W Peak
Mouse MX510
Keyboard Microsoft Digital media 3000
Software Win 7 Pro x64 ( Retail )
Well, I do leave my UPS still on even after shutting down my desktop & netbook PC until the UPS is drained empty or power is back on. Would that contribute to my shorter UPS battery lifespan or negatively in anyway?
It is all about how experienced it is the maker of your UPS, APC SUA1000 this will turn off when battery this is at 20%.
In this case the UPS it does safeguarding the battery pack.

Battery makers as is Panasonic, they deliver batteries with three expected life-cycles.
5 Years
7 years
10 years
Identical capacity, identical size, different part-code.
Unfortunately I were double-crossed, I got a pair of the 10 years model, and they died at 7 years, and Panasonic told me that they do not have any responsibility.
 

Rei

Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
57 (1.14/day)
Location
Guam
System Name 1 Desktop, 2 Laptops, 1 Nettop
Processor Pentium, Celeron & Atom
Motherboard Brandless???
Cooling Stock
Memory 4 GB + 3 GB + 2 GB + 1 GB
Video Card(s) Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti
Storage 6 TB Total
Display(s) HP Pavilion 14 Inch CRT
Case Brandless
Audio Device(s) Various
Power Supply Seasonic 500 Watt
Mouse Wayes Iron Man wireless mouse
Keyboard Rexus VR2 Wireless keyboard
Software Win10 & WinXP SP3
Benchmark Scores It sucks...
Hi,
Yes 24 months or just past it's warranty lol
If you peal the manufacture sticker off you'll see the cheap China.. made battery model and number to search for and likely find it on ebay or amazon for less than the manufacture will sell one for.
But it hasn't been 24 months yet. I believe it was around 20 months already?!? 4 months too soon?
It is all about how experienced it is the maker of your UPS, APC SUA1000 this will turn off when battery this is at 20%.
In this case the UPS it does safeguarding the battery pack.

Battery makers as is Panasonic, they deliver batteries with three expected life-cycles.
5 Years
7 years
10 years
Identical capacity, identical size, different part-code.
Unfortunately I were double-crossed, I got a pair of the 10 years model, and they died at 7 years, and Panasonic told me that they do not have any responsibility.
I just remembered that this Prolink also shuts down after about 10-15 minutes after idle (without any battery drain).
Was there no such warranty for that length of a lifecycle? Panasonic is a noteworthy battery maker & I have my eye on a 12V 7.2Ah lead-acid battery. But either that or Gpower 12V 9Ah for roughly the same price or Inforce 12V 7.2Ah for half the price. The Panasonic is about US$20.
 

tygrus

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
21 (0.12/day)
I would suggest finding a UPS that supports your intended maximum load for atleast 15 minutes runtime. Todays cheap models that support their full load for only 3-5 minutes don't last.
I've used old APC Smart-UPS 1000 & 1500 for many years. The 1000VA can be modified to fit the same capacity batteries as the 1500VA model. It can support a 300w load for about 1hour and batteries last 4 to 7 years depending on how many blackouts occur per year. If I loose half the capacity or double the load, I still get 20 minutes runtime. I can run a 250w fridge off the 1500VA models during a longer blackout (the peak VA when the motor starts is over 1000VA for <1 second).

Watts RMS = average power used of a full cycle or more.
The VA rating = Average Volts x Average Amps.
PF=W / VA
A resistive load has PF of 1 so the average watts will equal the VA rating of the load.
If more current is used when the voltage in the cycle is low, and less when the voltage is high then Watts will be less than VA (ie. PF <1).
Wires heat up because of current flow not volts so the average current limits the capacity of the inverter wiring for loads with PF <1 & < rated watts.
The runtime of the batteries are still dependent on the average watts used, the available battery capacity and inverter efficiency.

The higher the load, the more the battery voltage drops, the less battery capacity can be used, the shorter runtime compared to a linear line.
If near the end of the runtime you lowered the load, more of the remaining battery capacity could then be used.

The bigger the inverter, the more power it uses with <10% loads.

If you can lower the maximum charging rate and the standby voltage you can increase the life of the batteries. If you turn them off well before the low voltage cut out, the batteries will last longer.
If you start with 15 minutes runtime you will still have 7 minute runtime when batteries loose 50% capacity. If you only start with 5 minute runtime it doesn't take much (capacity loss from use) for them to be useless.

Lithium based batteries don't match the voltages of Lead-acid (eg. SLA) so the UPS settings/design would need to be changed to suit their characteristics (max voltage, float voltage, low-voltage cutoff). Also check the limits for charging & discharging of the batteries.
* WARNING * Electrocution / shock hazard, don't poke around inside a UPS unless you are qualified & careful. A UPS has mains voltage inside and large capacitors that can hold a charge after the power has been removed.
 
Top