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UPS Selection ?'s

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#1
Greetings,

I recently built a gaming PC with the following specs:

Intel Core i7 3930x extream
Gigabyte UD5 LGA 2011 MoBo
24gb DDR3
2 GTX 780's in SLI
Corsair H100i cooler
Thermaltake Toughpower 1350w PSU
Thermaltake full ATX chas.

I put this system on a Cyber Power (true sinewave) 600w UPS and to my surprise it shut off on me right when I loaded the video cards with crysis 3. I plan on sending that UPS back to Newegg and purchase the CyberPower 900w unit. My PSU is an active PFC type, so I am very limited in finding a UPS that is over 900w with sinewave tech. that wont break my wallet. My question is, Will the 900w UPS work when my system is at full load? I do not know what I am drawing from the wall at idle.

Thanks guys.
 

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#2
It'll be close. Too close for comfort methinks. UPS should always exceed the PSU.
 

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#3

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#4
In the words of JonnyGuru:
I haven't been able to figure out what a square or simulated sine wave would be bad for PFC circuits.
You don't need a true sine wave UPS with a PFC PSU.

The only reason true sine wave UPSes are sometimes recommended is because some of the extremely cheap simulated sine wave units have a really long switch-over time that PFC PSUs can't handle. However, most decent UPSes will switch over more than fast enough, all the ones I've used from APC and Cyberpower do. A simulated sine wave UPS will not damage a PSU. And this really has nothing to do with the waveform.

So I'd go with a decent high power unit with a simulated sine wave to make sure you've got the juice.
 
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#5
I'd have to disagree. I went through about three PSUs on my server with a square wave UPS. I haven't had any problems with it since switching to simulated sine. Additionally, in the morning there's often a quick dip in power. The square sine UPSs don't like it and the simulated sine glides right over it.

Thus, I have to go with Johnny Guru is wrong on that one.
 

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#6
I'd have to disagree. I went through about three PSUs on my server with a square wave UPS. I haven't had any problems with it since switching to simulated sine. Additionally, in the morning there's often a quick dip in power. The square sine UPSs don't like it and the simulated sine glides right over it.

Thus, I have to go with Johnny Guru is wrong on that one.
Or maybe your PSUs just died on their own. I've never lost a PSU to a modified sine wave inverter. More often than not computers aren't that sensitive. Maybe you just had a bad UPS in general?

The only reason true sine wave UPSes are sometimes recommended is because some of the extremely cheap simulated sine wave units have a really long switch-over time that PFC PSUs can't handle. However, most decent UPSes will switch over more than fast enough, all the ones I've used from APC and Cyberpower do. A simulated sine wave UPS will not damage a PSU. And this really has nothing to do with the waveform.
This has been my experience as well. My APC UPS haven't ever killed any hardware of mine and the CyberPower ones at work run our servers just fine.

I've been pretty happy with my APC XS 1500. It can handle about 850-watts-ish which my rig never actually reaches.
 

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#7
Or maybe your PSUs just died on their own. I've never lost a PSU to a modified sine wave inverter. More often than not computers aren't that sensitive. Maybe you just had a bad UPS in general?
They were Enermax Revolution 85+ 850w PSUs. Very doubtful they were bad, especially three in a row.
 

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#8
I'd have to disagree. I went through about three PSUs on my server with a square wave UPS. I haven't had any problems with it since switching to simulated sine. Additionally, in the morning there's often a quick dip in power. The square sine UPSs don't like it and the simulated sine glides right over it.
I've used a simulated sine wave UPS on my main rig for 4 years now, with the same Corsair HX850, never had a single issue. I've used simulated sine wave UPSes on my servers for years as well without an issue.

I'd venture to guess your UPS was causing the problem, but not because it was a simulated sine wave. It sounds to me like your having the exact issue I, and Jonny, are saying the issue is with cheap simulated sine wave units. If your UPS can't handle a dip in power without affecting the computers, then it probably doesn't have a quick enough switch-over time and isn't sensitive enough for PFC power supplies. In fact it might not even be line-interactive. Which means those morning dips in power are making their way through to the PSU, and that is what is killing them. Though that would kill a non-PFC unit as well over time. My area was prone to brown-outs as well for a while, and I lost 3 PSUs in a year because of it, I put every computer in my house on good quality simulated sine wave UPSes and haven't lost a PSU since.

Thus, I have to go with Johnny Guru is wrong on that one.
I guess he could be wrong, but he does design power supplies, so I'd be inclined to think he knows what he is saying.
 
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#9
am i missing something or didn't ford say he switched TO a simulated sine. are you guys not all using the same tech?
 

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#10
am i missing something or didn't ford say he switched TO a simulated sine. are you guys not all using the same tech?
Good point, didn't catch that, that is what I get for posting before my coffee.

Simulated sine wave is not the same as a true sine wave, but it is close enough for computers even if they have PFC.
 

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#11
DC batteries can't produce true sine wave.
 

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#12
DC batteries can't produce true sine wave.
There are DC to AC inverters that can produce true/pure sine wave output from a DC battery. They are just extremely expensive, which is why simulated sine wave is used. Simulated sine wave is not going to damage a PFC power supply, the OP is looking at true/pure sine wave UPSes which he doesn't need.
 

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#13
They simulate a sine wave, they don't produce a true sine wave.

See pic:
http://cnx.org/content/m46012/latest/aadxvrs0.png
The simulated wave is what DC produces. The sine wave is what AC produces. The difference between square and simulated is how closely the two match. A good simulated sine inverter will swich thousands of times per second; a crappy square sine inverter will switch 60 times per second.

The closer the wave is to matching AC's true sine wave, the fewer problems you're going to see with all AC equipment attached to it.
 

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#14
Yes, that is a simulated sine wave, there are pure sine wave inverters that do produce a pure/true sine wave.

For example, this UPS: CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD UPS 1350VA / 810W PFC co...

Either way, the OP was looking at extremely expensive true sine wave units, which he doesn't need. A simulated sine wave UPS will work just fine. A square wave UPS would not, those are junk.
 

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#15
I have two CP1350PFCLCD UPS's here and one older 1200 AVR model.

See at 1:40 in the video when he zooms in, you can see the switching. When he plugs it back in at 1:50 or so, you can see the steps go away. It is still simulated, but simulated well.

He says it is an 1100w in the video. It is closer to 900w. It would be better than the OP's 600w but I still have a suspicion it will be close or not enough. The price on units over 900w/1500VA skyrockets.
 
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#16
Never had a problem with PFC my self and i been using this UPS CyberPower Intelligent LCD Series CP1500AVRLCD Gre... for over 3 years now to support 2 PC's a AV, modem, router, 20" LCD and a 40" HDTV.

And we have had power cuts of all kinds and it's never failed to kick in.

Run time is 12 minutes @ 342w.

EDIT and my PSU is near 6 years old ( EEEEK )
 

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#17
There aren't steps in the wave, he even says the wave looks better when running on battery in the video.

But it doesn't matter, the OP just needs a simulated sine wave unit, he doesn't need a pure/true sine wave UPS, so that is all he needs to know. We can argue if true/pure sine wave units even really exist, but that isn't helping the topic at this point.

All the OP needs to know is that he can safely get a simulated sine wave UPS and not worry about any harm to his PFC power supply.
 

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#18
I know what would work:
Buy this and plug your tower into it.

Use the 600w you already own to drive monitor(s), speakers, and other peripheral devices. You can try running everything off the 900w CyberPower but I suspect it's going to get cranky when gaming.


FYI, Newegg carries a TAA compliant version of the same model. TAA means it's made in the USA (which includes internal components). That's why it is more expensive ($70 for the 900w model).
 

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#19

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#21
If it doesn't say, assume it is square sine wave. Being pure/true sine wave is a selling point they don't forget to advertise. XD
 

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#22
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#23
I agree. I think i'm going to go with the 900w CyberPower. It will be close, but all I really want to run is my PC. I am not sure how much more then 600w it's drawing at full load, I just know it exceeded it. My calculation give me in the high 700w range. I wish I had a way to measure wattage besides putting an amp clamp on the hot going to the PSU and calculating IxE. Also I don't think that each 780 is pulling it's max power when they are in SLI since it will be divided by 2. For example, if 1 card by itself was drawing 250w Max at full load, then when you add another the work for each card is split between the 2. I think that is where you gain the advantage in SLI. You are doubling your efficiency rather then power. Am i right?
 

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Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#24
I think your tower alone can pull greater than 700w under load. How much beyond that and I would just be guessing.

SLI is not about efficiency. Two cards that draw 250w each means it could be drawing in the neighborhood of 500w.


You could buy a Kill-a-watt. They're pretty cheap (like $20) and would tell you how much it is drawing from the wall.
 

AsRock

TPU addict
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Processor 2500k \ 3770k
Motherboard ASRock Z68 \ Z77
Memory Samsung low profile 1600
Video Card(s) XFX 6770 \ XFX R9 390X
Storage Intel 80Gb (SATA2) WD 250Gb \ Team SSD+Samsung Evo 250Gb+500Gb+ 2xCorsair Force+WD250GbHDD
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ Toshiba HDTV 1080P
Case HTPC400 \ Thermaltake Armor case ( original ), With Zalman fan controller ( wattage usage ).
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V475 \ Marantz SR5008 Tannoy Mercury MKII Paradigm 5SE + Tannoy Mercury F4
Power Supply PC&Power 750w \ Seasonic 750w MKII
Mouse MS intelimouse \ Logitech G700s + Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ ROCCAT MK Pro ( modded amber leds )
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
#25
At around 485w-505w load you'll get about 4 minutes which would give plenty of time to shutdown.

Remember when there is a power cut, when you minimize a game the power load normally goes to system idle usages or very close to at least ( although never tried it with SLI or CF ).

4 minutes is plenty of time to get shit shutdown anyways.