Urgent help! Reservoir leaks or something wrong

[mrthanhnguyen]

I have a mora 420 external and uses it for a few months without a problem. I just installed a new 1080mm rad and the loop keep getting bubbles too much and water in reservoir keep going up and down, so I drained the loop. Now I just use the mora to see if the 1080 rad makes the problem.When I refill it, the water in the reservoir goes down when I turn on but it shoot up when I turn off. I tried to put the cap to seal the reservoir and the water does not goes up to the top when I power off but dam, it leaks out at the bottom of the reservoir. I look at the tube in the case and look like it does not have any water when I turn off the psu. I see water moving around the tube when psu is on. What is going on guys?

 

[Chrispy_]

A video will probably make that much clearer to understand but surely step one is to fix the leaks? Step two is to work out where your air lock is - sounds like the radiator.

These 1080 radiators, what's the water path through them? is it three 360 rads joined side by side so that water makes six passes across in total (1 up, one down for each bank of three fans) or is it something more complex?

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

When I refill it, the water in the reservoir goes down when I turn on but it shoot up when I turn off.

Compression of fluids is the reason here. Other factors include what you use for piping, soft hoses or hard tube. Soft hosing will expand under pressure at the same time fluid will compress slightly.

You best bet is to just fill the system and bleed out any air and leave it alone. This 1080 may need a larger reservoir to accommodate it.

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

I think its the cyclone in the reservoir because when pc is off, I dont see any bubbles in the reservoir. Its clear but when I turn on, the bubbles appear in the reservoir.

 

[R00kie]

you might wanna shake your rad up a bit, get the bubbles out, and then replace the air with more water.
As for the leak, is the reservoir screwed in tight, could it be pinching the O-ring by any chance?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
You have a lot of air still shake the 1080 which ever rad you got a lot
Leave the top off the res until you get most out.

 

[Chrispy_]

Compression of fluids is the reason here. Other factors include what you use for piping, soft hoses or hard tube. Soft hosing will expand under pressure at the same time fluid will compress slightly.

What? No LOL. Go back to school!
Fluids are pretty much incompressible which is why they are used in hydraulic rams and brake systems.

To compress water by 0.1% volume (so 1L becomes 999ml) you need 300PSI or 20Bar. That's a ridiculous amount of pressure that exceeds the strength of the o-rings and compression fittings on any PC watercooling loop. People have actually pressure-tested watercooling loops before and they explode at around 150PSI.

 

[Fangio1951]

hi,

I wouldn't worry too much as I have the same situation with my loop.

I could eliminate all the air form my system if I wanted to, but then I'd have to put a flow meter back in the loop (Which I had in a previous loop) so I could tell if the pump was working.

After starting my system the water level drops by about 20% and stabilizes until I turn it off.

With the slight air gap in the top of the reservoir , I can see the water flow and know the pump is working.

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

Hi,
You have a lot of air still shake the 1080 which ever rad you got a lot
Leave the top off the res until you get most out.

Thank you for your advice. I leave the top off when the pc is on and the water in a reservoir goes down like no more water in it, so I fill water to 1/4 of the reservoir. After that, I turn off power and I can see a little fountain in my pc. Water from somewhere shoots up through the top and soak my pc.

 

[Chrispy_]

Thank you for your advice. I leave the top off when the pc is on and the water in a reservoir goes down like no more water in it, so I fill water to 1/4 of the reservoir. After that, I turn off power and I can see a little fountain in my pc. Water from somewhere shoots up through the top and soak my pc.

It's really sounding like you need to remove the loop from the PC and fill it outside the PC and leak test it.

Based on what you're saying, I don't think your pump has enough static pressure to push water over the top of some runs in the huge radiator and continue siphoning the water down the other side, so when you stop the pump the weight of all that water falls back down.

If you fill and bleed the system with the radiator laid flat on a table, it should avoid this problem, and then you can leak test it. As long as there are no air locks in the system at that point you should be able to turn the radiator back up to vertical. Without air in the radiator the weight of the water on the upward routes through the radiator will match the weight of the water on the downward routes (this is called a balanced siphon) and then the pump will be able to handle it even without enough static pressure.

Also, outside the PC is the best possible time to leak-test the loop.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

What? No LOL. Go back to school!

I was looking for actual numbers, thanks for the correction

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

It's really sounding like you need to remove the loop from the PC and fill it outside the PC and leak test it.

Based on what you're saying, I don't think your pump has enough static pressure to push water over the top of some runs in the huge radiator and continue siphoning the water down the other side, so when you stop the pump the weight of all that water falls back down.

If you fill and bleed the system with the radiator laid flat on a table, it should avoid this problem, and then you can leak test it. As long as there are no air locks in the system at that point you should be able to turn the radiator back up to vertical. Without air in the radiator the weight of the water on the upward routes through the radiator will match the weight of the water on the downward routes (this is called a balanced siphon) and then the pump will be able to handle it even without enough static pressure.

Also, outside the PC is the best possible time to leak-test the loop.

Under a reservoir is a ddc pump which I just installed a few days ago then a tube then a mcp35x2 pump. Thats still not enough to push water? Any chance the mcp35x2 die coz I smell something burnt last week.

 

[Caring1]

Lower the height of the radiator, or raise the reservoir so it is level with the top of the radiator.
It is possible you have a burnt a pump out by trying to push too much volume of water.
A checkvalve will stop water flowing back when the pump is stopped.

 

[DR4G00N]

What? No LOL. Go back to school!
Fluids are pretty much incompressible which is why they are used in hydraulic rams and brake systems.

To compress water by 0.1% volume (so 1L becomes 999ml) you need 300PSI or 20Bar. That's a ridiculous amount of pressure that exceeds the strength of the o-rings and compression fittings on any PC watercooling loop. People have actually pressure-tested watercooling loops before and they explode at around 150PSI.

It's liquids that are pretty much incompressible, not fluids. Gasses are fluids and can of course be compressed.

What orientation is the radiator in btw? If the inlet & outlet are both at the top it's going to make it very difficult for the pumps to push water through it. Ideally you want the inlet at the top and the outlet at the bottom so gravity can help you bleed the system.
Laying the radiator flat like others have suggested is also a good way to bleed it as well.

 

[John Naylor]

1. You need to properly bleed the system. Without being bled, this is normal behavior.

2. Yes, you can compress fluids with E N OR MO U S amounts of pressure.... this does not occur with water based coolants on the pressure that water pumps are capable of. This has to do

3. Whats happening here is called gravity. When the pump is on, water displaces the air on the rads and when the pump is off, gravity takes it back down to.

4. How to build a bleed system:

a) Use a radiator with both top and bottom ports. Tubing in and out use the bottom ports. Bleeding and fill ports use the top ports, I use the side ports for temperature sensors of measuring temps on nd out of each radiator
b) From one of the top ports build an extension with Male G-1/4 screw => Acrylic tube fitting. 12" of rigid acrylic tube, another tube fitting, F X F Ball Valve /// use this with a small funnel that fits in the valve opening.
c) Use a multiport reservoir top; the bottom should feed the pump and have a anti-swirl device. On the top fill port use fill tube which will extend down below the water surface leaving about 1 inch of air space. For one of the other top ports use a M X Mal G-1/4 screw fitting , a ball valve and cap.
d) A loop drain system can be made from a bottom rad with push fans under the rad.... G-1/4 M x M Fittng, 90 Elbow, F x F extension as required, Quick Disconnect fitting. Keep the other half of the Quick Disconnect in a drawer with 3 feet of flexible tubing.

5. Procedure:

a) Place a thick book or a brick under the rear of the case where your top rad ports should be; if they in the front of the case, lift up the front end. Air bubbles will collect at the highest point, and if you rdd is lat, you won't have one. You want the air to collect on the small reservoir close to the rad ports so you can get it out. If it's an external rad, then just get the rad to a point where the rad's small end reservoir and bleed port is at the highest point in the loop.
b) Take of the port cap and screw in your bleeder assembly. Open the valve and fill the tube with water usung the funnel.
c) Close the valve and turn on the system. After a minute of so, crack the valve on the bleeder assembly, and watch the water level drop slowly. Close the valve to prevent the water level from dropping out of sight in the tube so as not to let water in. Turn off pump
d) Repeat step c) as necessary.
e) At some point, in most systems , the water level in the Reservoir will drop. Remember the cap on top of the valve in top of the reservoir and crack open the valve ...close valve when water level in the res is about an inch below top.
f) The reason you want that air gap is that while water is essentially uncompressible at the pressures in water loops, it does expand with temperature. That air gap will serve at allow for that thermal expansion.
g) repeat step c) if required

The above is for a typical loop with top and bottom (or front) radiators. You want to bleed at the highest point and drain from the lowest point.

Here's a parts list you can use for comparison / adaptation to your build:

Reservoir / Bleed Assembly:
-Reservoir - EK-MultiOption RES X3 250 - Liquid Cooling Reservoir - White Acetal (6 Total Ports) w/ (2) EK Extender Fittings http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...etal_6_Total_Ports.html?tl=g57c615s1940#blank ex-res-677
-Reservoir Top - EK X3 Reservoir Multiport Replacement Top - White (EK-RES X3 - Multiport TOP WHITE) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ltiport_TOP_WHITE.html?id=4NiLmkLB&mv_pc=1254 ex-res-481
-Reservoir Fill Tube Internal Tube 12/16 - 140mm (EK-RES-X3-TUBE-140 http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...uct_info&cPath=59_1165_1162&products_id=36312 Product 20/27
-EK - Extender Fitting - EK G1/4 Thread Fitting Extender - Nickel - 8mm (Fitting Extender G1/4 (Ni)) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...g_Extender_G14_Ni.html?id=4NiLmkLB&mv_pc=1256 scr-701
-Bleeder Valve - Bitspower G1/4" Mini Valve - Matte Black (BP-MVV-MBK) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Matte_Black_BP-MVV-MBK.html?tl=c101s1332b145 ex-tub-103
-Male by Male Fitting - Bitspower Dual G1/4" Male / Male Fitting - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-C08) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Matte_Black_BP-MBWP-C08.html?tl=c101s1354b145 ex-tub-609


Top Radiator Bleed Assembly
- Valve as above
Rigid 10/12 mm Acrylic Tubing - EK 12mm OD Solid Tube Set - Clear - 2x 19.5" (EK-HD Tube 10/12mm 500mm (2 pcs)) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21244/ex-tub-2002/ ex-tub-2002
-(2) G1/4" x Rigid Tubing Connector (Male) - Bitspower SLI / Crossfire Multi-Link Adapter Pair - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-C47) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...k_Adapter_Pair_-_Matte_Black_BP-MBWP-C47.html ex-tub-668

Of course I can't "see" your parts and their arrangement so youmay have to reconfigure as necessary to fit your situation.

For testing and bleeding, I would suggest you power the stsrem wuth the PC off with one of these.

PSU - AC to DC Adapter - 110V AC to 12V DC Converter w/ Standard 4 Pin (5000mA Max) http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...DC_Converter_w_Standard_4_Pin_5000mA_Max.html bus-192

 

[Chrispy_]

It's liquids that are pretty much incompressible, not fluids. Gasses are fluids and can of course be compressed.

What orientation is the radiator in btw? If the inlet & outlet are both at the top it's going to make it very difficult for the pumps to push water through it. Ideally you want the inlet at the top and the outlet at the bottom so gravity can help you bleed the system.
Laying the radiator flat like others have suggested is also a good way to bleed it as well.

I was quoting his particular use of the word fluid and though as a scientist I agree that gases and plasmas are technically fluids, common language treats liquids as 'fluid' more often than not. In the context of a watercooling loop there's no doubt about whether this fluid is a liquid, gas, or plasma

It's a shame this thread has no pictures or video; Seems like a pretty straightforward bleed issue to solve.

 

[Fangio1951]

I have a mora 420 external and uses it for a few months without a problem. I just installed a new 1080mm rad and the loop keep getting bubbles too much and water in reservoir keep going up and down, so I drained the loop. Now I just use the mora to see if the 1080 rad makes the problem.When I refill it, the water in the reservoir goes down when I turn on but it shoot up when I turn off. I tried to put the cap to seal the reservoir and the water does not goes up to the top when I power off but dam, it leaks out at the bottom of the reservoir. I look at the tube in the case and look like it does not have any water when I turn off the psu. I see water moving around the tube when psu is on. What is going on guys?

How about providing some pictures, as this would help us enormously, to help you.

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

When I run the mora alone, its normal but when I connect to 2 1080 rad, that happens. Is it because I connect 2 1080 rad so the pump cant work properly? Maybe another pump before those 2 rads?

 

[Chrispy_]

Yep, waaaaaaaaaay too much air in that system.
Take it out of your system and bleed it on a flat surface with the reservoir being the tallest point in the loop.

The problem you have is that the MORA probably has a higher volume than your reservoir, and with the strong pump required for such a system you are churning air into the water. Bleeding and filling it will definitely be easier if you slow down the pump

 

[mrthanhnguyen]

I took the 1080 rad out and fill it manually and now the water in the reservoir looks normal. 2 d5 pumps and mcp35x2 are enough for my cooling system?