1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

USB 3.0 Promoter Group Announces Plan to Release New Power Delivery Specification

Discussion in 'News' started by btarunr, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    33,668 (9.42/day)
    Thanks Received:
    17,206
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    The USB 3.0 Promoter Group is announcing that it is creating a new power delivery specification which will significantly extend the capabilities and usages of cable bus power in USB applications. The new specification will enable delivery of more power via the familiar USB connectors and cables, and will coexist with the USB Battery Charging 1.2 specification and existing USB bus-powered applications.

    “Building on the rapidly increasing industry momentum for using USB bus power to charge a broad range of mobile devices, the new USB Power Delivery specification extends USB’s cable power delivery capabilities beyond simple battery charging,” said Brad Saunders, USB 3.0 Promoter Group Chairman. “For example, charging the battery of a notebook PC, or simply powering that notebook PC while actively using the USB data connection, would be possible. Conceivably, a notebook PC could rely solely on a USB connection for its source of power.”

    Key characteristics of the forthcoming USB Power Delivery solution include:
    • Compatible with existing cables and connectors
    • Enables voltage and current values to be negotiated over the USB power pins
    • Enables higher voltage and current in order to deliver power up to 100W
    • Switchable source of power delivery without changing cable direction
    • Coexists with USB Battery Charging 1.2 and works equally well with both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0
    “Building on the rapidly increasing industry momentum for using USB bus power to charge a broad range of mobile devices, the new USB Power Delivery specification extends USB’s cable power delivery capabilities beyond simple battery charging,” said Brad Saunders, USB 3.0 Promoter Group Chairman. “For example, charging the battery of a notebook PC, or simply powering that notebook PC while actively using the USB data connection, would be possible. Conceivably, a notebook PC could rely solely on a USB connection for its source of power.”

    The USB Power Delivery specification is targeted for industry review during the final quarter of this year. Further information regarding the specification and plans for a pre-release industry review will be provided at the Intel Developer Forum (IDF), September 13-15, 2011 in San Francisco, California. Early in 2012, the USB 3.0 Promoter Group intends to transition the final specification to the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF) for publication and establishment of the ecosystem and associated compliance program.
     
    Damn_Smooth says thanks.
  2. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    33,668 (9.42/day)
    Thanks Received:
    17,206
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    100W over USB...who would've thought. Get ready for fatter motherboard power connectors.
     
  3. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    24,318 (6.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,777
    I'm ok with this. I like the idea of less power bricks and plugs in my power strip.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  4. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    33,668 (9.42/day)
    Thanks Received:
    17,206
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    To think about it, even 30-inch (2560x1600) monitors can be powered off USB.
     
  5. Mussels

    Mussels Moderprator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    45,912 (9.83/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,462
    Location:
    Australalalalalaia.
    100W? jesus.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  6. NirXY

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    10 (0.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    0
    something doesn't add up.
    with current voltage (~5V) that means that the Max current the cable will need to withstand is 20A
    (compared to 0.5A at the moment).
    that's gonna be a very thick cable.. (and very bad for data interfering)
     
  7. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680 (0.93/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    I think that could be a dangerous move tbh. Imagine 2-3 USB devices connected each eating up 100w. Enthusiast would know how to manage that and have/will have PSU + MB capable of doing that anyway, but the average joe using a mainstream PC, I don't think so... how do you tell them that you can only plug this much...

    So how are they going to control that? Maybe only 1 "superpowered" USB per PC or something? More for enthusiast MB, but how do you really market that? Again non enthusiast already have problems understanding the difference between current powered/non-powered USBs. Try explaining them 3 different levels of power and that there's a limit to how many high sucking USB devices you can plug, etc...


    Or will mainstream PC vendors start using 600W PSU and high grade MB? I don't think so, not profitable.
     
  8. yogurt_21

    yogurt_21

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,046 (1.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,122
    Location:
    AZ
    my motherboard advertises 3x usb power delivery, which over usb 2.0 would be 1.5 amp @ 5 volt and usb 3 would be 2.7 amp @ 5 volt.

    I find that is more than enough for any of my devices.

    but 20amps @ 5 volts? most psu's these days scarcely have much more than that on the 5v rail.

    you'd only be able to plug in a single usb device.

    unles they're talking 100w total for all usb on the board. Then they'd be closer to my motherboard's spec for charging devices.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  9. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,855 (5.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    10,012
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    It isn't at 5v.

    That to me says that if a device asks for more power, the voltage as well as the current are increased. So they could be pumping 12v though it instead of 5v.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  10. cheesy999

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,012 (1.56/day)
    Thanks Received:
    635
    Location:
    UK
    so now we could run hard drives and stuff without external adapters?
     
  11. 1freedude

    1freedude

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Messages:
    557 (0.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    118
    and routers and modems and lights and printers and anything that needs ac/dc conversion. I already hooked my modem and router to the psu of my file server. Two bricks gone.
     
  12. [H]@RD5TUFF

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,614 (2.00/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,707
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Awesome, I see this as one step closer to a 1 cord solution.
     
  13. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,855 (5.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    10,012
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Assuming that it actually is 12v, I don't see why not. I don't know if it is 12v, I'm just saying it could be. Of course at 100w, it really doesn't matter what the voltage is, if the hard drive enclosure has the proper power converter the USB plug could power it.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  14. yogurt_21

    yogurt_21

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    5,046 (1.21/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,122
    Location:
    AZ
    that doesn't make much electrical sense, a variance of 4.5-5.5v sure, but to jump from 5v to 12v isn't going to be possible either for the chipset to do or for the device to accept.

    they'd have to make a new usb specification that starts at 12v and then we'd have to wait a few years for both motherboards and devices that could support 12v to come to market.

    not to mention what a support nightmare that would be "oops I plugged my 5v usb 2.0 device into my 12v usb port and now my device burned up and fried the port in the process"
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  15. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,855 (5.60/day)
    Thanks Received:
    10,012
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    The whole idea behind this specification is to allow the device to negociate the voltage difference. The port doesn't run at 12v all the time, the device is plugged into the port, and the port runs at 5v, when the device asks for 12v then it gets it. So plugging a 5v device into one of these new style ports won't be an issue. That is explained in the second bullet point of the list. This negotiation happens over the power pins. These ports are not 12v all the time, they act as a normal USB port at 5v unless the device specifically asks to activate the new specification.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)