• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

USB4 is Coming - Everything You Need to Know

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,702 (2.32/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the labeling is clear.

Show full review
 

Easy Rhino

Linux Advocate
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
15,496 (2.40/day)
Location
Mid-Atlantic
System Name Desktop
Processor i5 13600KF
Motherboard AsRock B760M Steel Legend Wifi
Cooling Noctua NH-U9S
Memory 4x 16 Gb Gskill S5 DDR5 @6000
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Gaming OC 6750 XT 12GB
Storage WD_BLACK 4TB SN850x
Display(s) Gigabye M32U
Case Corsair Carbide 400C
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 P2
Mouse MX Master 3s
Keyboard Logitech G915 Wireless Clicky
Software The Matrix
At this rate I'll be waiting for USB 5 :laugh:
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
5,323 (4.10/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Great write-up, it's pretty clear and concise. New and exciting technology alright (especially with the odd censor request from AsMedia), though at this point, I can only hope that it finally begins to supplant USB 2.0 Type A connectors. It seems like those have survived through every model of connector intended to replace them since the 1990's, somewhat like the MP3 format, many better codecs with better sound and/or compression have been developed, but they never replace MP3... likewise USB 2.0 lingers :oops:
 

ir_cow

Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
4,041 (0.70/day)
Location
USA
It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?

Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
1,101 (1.04/day)
It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?
Yes. USB4, as the article reads, can do either 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps.
Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?
There is no scam, just terrible marketing for those who are not informed. TB3 40 Gbps is fine, as the signal is bi-directional. Companies should say 2x20 Gbps to be on the accurate side if they use older DSL 6240 controller with PCIe 3.0 x2 wiring, but no one chases them to be more honest.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
873 (0.46/day)
Location
The New England region of the United States
System Name Daily Driver(gaming, browsing)
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aurus Pro Wifi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black
Memory 32GB(2x16GB) Patriot Viper DDR4-3200C16
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3060 Ti
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB (Boot/OS)|Hynix Platinum P41 2TB (Games)|Kingston KC3000 2TB (Misc)
Display(s) Gigabyte G27F
Case Corsair Graphite 600T w/mesh side
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z625 2.1 | cheapo gaming headset when mic is needed
Power Supply Corsair HX850i
Mouse Redragon M808-KS Storm Pro (Great Value)
Keyboard Redragon K512 Shiva replaced a Corsair K70 Lux - Blue on Black
VR HMD Nope
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores Nope
Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
5,323 (4.10/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
Yes. USB4, as the article reads, can do either 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps.

There is no scam, just terrible marketing for those who are not informed. TB3 40 Gbps is fine, as the signal is bi-directional. Companies should say 2x20 Gbps to be on the accurate side if they use older DSL 6240 controller with PCIe 3.0 x2 wiring, but no one chases them to be more honest.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Intel phase out the Alpine Ridge controller series like 5 years ago or something? I recall my X99 board seems to have the DSL6540, but I never owned the header card for it.

Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.

I agree, perhaps this is why USB 2.0 and mp3 have outlived most if not all of its spiritual successors :oops:
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
556 (0.29/day)
Processor 9600k
Motherboard MSI Z390I Gaming EDGE AC
Cooling Scythe Mugen 5
Memory 32GB of G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz CL16
Video Card(s) MSI 3080 Ventus OC
Storage 2x Intel 660p 1TB
Display(s) Acer CG437KP
Case Streacom BC1 mini
Audio Device(s) Topping MX3
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse R.A.T. DWS
Keyboard HAVIT KB487L / AKKO 3098 / Logitech G19
VR HMD HTC Vive
Benchmark Scores What's a "benchmark"?
Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
461 (0.26/day)
You know I still use USB 2.0.... Right??? Professionally... Right???
Yea I get it however....

75% OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD DO NOT USE BLEEDING EDGE TECHNOLOGY.
Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".
Agree with this comment because it is the truth. If you are a tech geek junkie like I am you say, "That's pretty cool" and then go back to what is reliable in the long run.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
1,101 (1.04/day)
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Intel phase out the Alpine Ridge controller series like 5 years ago or something? I recall my X99 board seems to have the DSL6540, but I never owned the header card for it.
Devices can still use TB3 with PCIe 3.0 x2, so half of the speed. Many peripherals use it.

Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps .
That's exactly what they did with USB4.

"U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".
It's trying to be universal by supporting most of what you really need on PC, which is USB data, DP and PCIe.
Vendors are responsible for informing accurately about speeds.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,702 (2.32/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
It's interesting to see that MSI keeps calling its USB-C ports USB4 in the manual. USB-C 20Gbps = USB4?

Another thing that is a interesting marketing deploy is Thunderbolt 3 is "up to" 40 Gbps, Thunderbolt 4 requires 40 Gbps. I see a lot of hubs and externals for sale saying USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 40Gbps, but if you look into the hardware the controller cannot do more than 20Gbps. Whos scamming who now?
As I alluded, but didn't want to spell out in the article, Intel didn't want USB4 to be superior to Thunderbolt 4, despite other members of the USB-IF pushing for USB4 to offer better features. For example, some companies wanted 20 Gbps USB 3.2 to be the minimum supported, but that would've been better than the 10 Gbps that Thunderbolt does, so Intel said no.

Some of the limitations are cost related, some are kind of weird and I don't understand the reasoning behind. Several are related to backwards compatibility and some are related to the fact that USB4 does so much more than just sending USB data.

With all this performance, Would it be possible to create a USB4 GPU?
You mean an external GPU for laptops? Yes.

This is going to confuse all the users at work even more LOL.
A lot of it can be ignored by the average user, buy the fact that so many things are optional, is dumb and will indeed cause confusion.
 

hat

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
21,734 (3.37/day)
Location
Ohio
System Name Starlifter :: Dragonfly
Processor i7 2600k 4.4GHz :: i5 10400
Motherboard ASUS P8P67 Pro :: ASUS Prime H570-Plus
Cooling Cryorig M9 :: Stock
Memory 4x4GB DDR3 2133 :: 2x8GB DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) PNY GTX1070 :: Integrated UHD 630
Storage Crucial MX500 1TB, 2x1TB Seagate RAID 0 :: Mushkin Enhanced 60GB SSD, 3x4TB Seagate HDD RAID5
Display(s) Onn 165hz 1080p :: Acer 1080p
Case Antec SOHO 1030B :: Old White Full Tower
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - Bose Companion 2 Series III :: None
Power Supply FSP Hydro GE 550w :: EVGA Supernova 550
Software Windows 10 Pro - Plex Server on Dragonfly
Benchmark Scores >9000
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,702 (2.32/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Man, what a fiasco. Do they not get it or do they not care? People want something simple, not more complicated. Make it 20 Gbps or 40 Gbps . Hell say USB4 supports 20Gbps but USB4.1 or USB4a supports 40Gbps just not this logo bull and all the other crap! It's hard enough for those of us who read this stuff all the time to keep up with, try explaining to your average consumer. They always end up just buying the cheapest thing they can and getting pissy because it doesn't work right. No wonder people are flocking to their phones and abandoning computers as a platform.
Well, at least everything that has passed certification has to be labelled properly now, unlike previous versions where you bought the pig in the poke. It was impossible to trust that cables would deliver on the claimed performance, unless it was from some brand name like Lindy etc.

Phones also use USB-C and most only have USB 2.0 for data and most phones don't support features like DP Alt Mode and most rely on an external DAC for audio. So it's really no better.

Oh, how I love the excitement of looking for the 2mm logos on a product just to figure out if a device will be compatible with this particular port and the uncertainty of "will it work at all?". USB-IF seems to be an organization full of either old people who don't care and just want money or people living in a really isolated tech bubble. "U" stands for "universal" and USB is anything but - a myriad of standards, versions, alt modes. Just make it work like "red port for high power, blue for fast data". Now it's more along the lines of "the port and cables look the same but you need to spend half an hour finding and reading several manuals to figure out why it doesn't do what you want it to".
It's not just that, but several members have very different agendas. In all honesty, I'm not sure why Intel pretty much gave the USB-IF Thunderbolt 3 as the base for USB4 and then demanded it couldn't be superior in any way to Thunderbolt 4.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
1,101 (1.04/day)
With all this performance, Would it be possible to create a USB4 GPU?
External GPU enclosures have been found to be limited in performance by PCIe 3.0 x4 connection used in TB4. It's like putting GPU into motherboard in x4 slot.

In all honesty, I'm not sure why Intel pretty much gave the USB-IF Thunderbolt 3 as the base for USB4 and then demanded it couldn't be superior in any way to Thunderbolt 4.
To increase TB4 and usb-c adoption in desktop space, which is currently really niche and usb-c has only started to appear.
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,702 (2.32/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
External GPU enclosures have been found to be limited in performance by PCIe 3.0 x4 connection used in TB4. It's like putting GPU into motherboard in x4 slot.
USB4 should improve on that somewhat.
To increase TB4 and usb-c adoption in desktop space, which is currently really niche and usb-c has only started to appear.
Very likely, but then why make sure the baseline for USB4 is worse on all accounts compared to Thunderbolt 3?
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
16,702 (2.32/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/yfsd9w
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
26,044 (6.47/day)
USB4 is the next evolution of the USB standard, but it's quite different from its predecessors as it brings with it support for DisplayPort connectivity, as well as optional PCI-Express and Thunderbolt 3 support. It tries to fix some technical issues, but adds a few of its own, but at least the labeling is clear.
Good review and summery of information.

damn 240w... gaming laptops will be happy
True.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
531 (0.29/day)
Location
Moscow, Russia
Processor Intel 12600K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Gaming X
Cooling CPU: Noctua NH-D15S; Case: 2xNoctua NF-A14, 1xNF-S12A.
Memory Ballistix Sport LT DDR4 @3600CL16 2*16GB
Video Card(s) Palit RTX 4080
Storage Samsung 970 Pro 512GB + Crucial MX500 500gb + WD Red 6TB
Display(s) Dell S2721qs
Case Phanteks P300A Mesh
Audio Device(s) Behringer UMC204HD
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 560W
Mouse Glorious Model D-
"For some reason, Intel isn't marketing any of its Thunderbolt 4 products as "USB4 compatible" despite the fact that they appear to be certified."
Cause thunderbolt4 is cool and usb4 isn't, hahaha. Apple products have thunderbolt, expensive mobos have thunderbolt - no need for dat pleb usb4! :D
 

messofpotamia

New Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2022
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
How far are we from making monitor power plugs optional? 60 watts should allow a lot of people to clean up the cable clutter on their desk.

As for why Intel baselined USB4 lower than TB3.. just look at their profit margins if you want an answer.
 
Top