[WARNING] ASUS X299 TUF MK1 BIOS issues - DON'T UPDATE TO BIOS VERSION 1704

[Spouny]

Thanks for your answer.
After a few days doing different tests and using the PC I start to understand what's wrong.
You are right, now I'm sure that my OS wasn't damaged, a re-install would not help.
These last two days I used the PC and it worked fine, but for that I have to keep the default BIOS settings !
As soon as I try to run my RAM at the frequency at which it worked well with the bios 0802 (nothing more than manufacturer spécifications => 3200MHz / 15.15.15.35 / 1.35V) the PC does not boot anymore and I have the same error codes as before. It confirms what you said about IMC and your RAM.
Other test done:
- If I load the XMP profile, the correct frequency is applied, as well as the good timings, and also the correct voltage (1.35V) => but no boot, blue screen.
- I tried to leave everything in auto except DRAM Frequency for which I selected DDR4-3200MHz (my RAM that's it: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c15q-32gtzsw ) => When I do this, the bios applies the right frequency, but it puts the timings at 18 instead of 15 (which does not seem abnormal if I do not set them manually), but the problem is that the bios automatically applies 1.51V to the RAM !!! => I rushed to cut everything when I saw that.
- Then I tried the same thing, everything in auto, except DRAM Frequency on DDR4-3200MHz and manual DRAM voltage at 1.35V. The bios applies the right frequency, the right voltage, always the basic timings at 18 instead of 15 (normal) => but no boot, blue screen.
- Then tested the same thing, but at 1.2V for the voltage DRAM => No boot, blue screen.
- Then I tested everything in auto, except DRAM Frequency on DDR4-3200MHz and manual DRAM voltage at 1.35V, and manual timings 15/15/15/35 => The bios applies well as it should, but no boot, blue screen.

At the moment I just noticed that the PC works fine and is stable with all the default BIOS settings (and therefore my RAM at 2133MHz and 1.2V), changing the RAM frequency to 3200MHz breaks it, whatever the voltage or timings applied, and especially the bios automatically applies 1.5V to the DRAM if I leave the voltage on Auto and I manually select DDR4-3200MHz.

I've sent an email to Asus to ask for explanations and to ask if it's a known issue with this bios ?

What would you advises me, go back to 0802 and flash bios versions one by one and test each of them a few days / weeks to check their operation, or flash the 1503 directly ?
Is there a risk downgrading bios version ?
Last question, it seemed to me that it was specified on the Asus website that was needed an USB key format FAT16 / 32 for the bios, yours is NTFS, isn't it a problem ?

Thanks.

 

[Wet_Paint]

nothing more than manufacturer spécifications => 3200MHz / 15.15.15.35 / 1.35V

The reason why this most likely happens is because XMP profile usually only sets frequency, CL, tRCD,tRP an tRAS while the rest of the settings(theres like >50 settings more) are set by motherboard which in rare cases can cause issues.

If I load the XMP profile, the correct frequency is applied, as well as the good timings, and also the correct voltage (1.35V) => but no boot, blue screen.
- I tried to leave everything in auto except DRAM Frequency for which I selected DDR4-3200MHz

If you are feeling adventurous try to set the XMP settings manually and tRFC to 450 with System Agent voltage at 1.0V(up to 1.1V is fine), if even that doesnt work then something must be seriously wrong. Its very weird that your memory is so unstable, ive basically identical board but im running just fine DDR4(two different sets of dual channel kits) from 2014 thats specified only for 3000Mhz CL16 while it actually runs fine at 3733 CL17 with very tightened subtimings.

At the moment I just noticed that the PC works fine and is stable with all the default BIOS settings

When you turned the XMP on did you enable ASUS multicore enhancement? It will lock all your cores to 4.3 or 4.5GHz (dont remember which one) which could also be source of instability.
Most stable settings are following: Sync all cores at 45, leave the cache alone and set the CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V, should be rock solid stable just in case its still unstable even at 1503. Other settings can cause that the board does whatever it wants with any of the voltages.
You could also try running just the CPU overclocked at 4.5Ghz 1.160V and see if thats stable and then manually overclock the memory to XMP values.

I've sent an email to Asus to ask for explanations and to ask if it's a known issue with this bios ?

This is totally my opinion but i think Asus just doesnt care, there arent enough X299 users for them to worth the hussle of fixing this stuff. These issues are there since lunch in 2017 (bought my board +-4 months after launch)

What would you advises me

You should go straight to 1503 imho, I used each BIOS since 503 (skipped the 402 as my board came with 503), early BIOSes (503 - 1401) had major issues with voltage reporting for Vcore, if i set Vcore of 1.090V(all SW would report identical voltage as set in BIOS) it would boot at 4.7Ghz easy, which isnt realistic at all obviously while the real voltage would around 1.230V and wouldnt be actually change-able at all. I even verified it by monitoring temperature readouts.

Last question, it seemed to me that it was specified on the Asus website that was needed an USB key format FAT16 / 32 for the bios, yours is NTFS, isn't it a problem ?

For me NTFS works absolutely fine, if you are worried its not an issue to just format it to FAT16/32.

1.51V to the RAM !!! => I rushed to cut everything when I saw that.

1.51V isnt gonna kill your RAM, i needed +-1.5V for 4000MHz RAM benchmarking but you shouldnt run it long term.

 

[phanbuey]

so wait - is your current bios maintaining the 4.7Ghz OC? and at what voltage? I glanced through the thread and MSI bioses only have a weird offset if you use dynamic voltage for the different clock steppings.

That really sucks, I would RMA the board and then sell the replacement.
Nice chip btw - I like that 5.1 Ghz cinebench run ...

NVM - re read. Glad you got it working.

 

[Spouny]

If you are feeling adventurous try to set the XMP settings manually and tRFC to 450 with System Agent voltage at 1.0V(up to 1.1V is fine), if even that doesnt work then something must be seriously wrong. Its very weird that your memory is so unstable, ive basically identical board but im running just fine DDR4(two different sets of dual channel kits) from 2014 thats specified only for 3000Mhz CL16 while it actually runs fine at 3733 CL17 with very tightened subtimings.

I'm not very adventurous, I just want a stable and functional PC as long as possible. And as my knowledge about overclocking is very limited, I usually do nothing more than increasing the coeficient of some units to gain a few hundred MHz, but without touching the CPU voltage or anything else.
At the moment I do not need this CPU to be OC, it's used for gaming only and it works at 75% load at most.
But I'm not against trying to do as usual, a slightly OC, but I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ? :

- tRFC to 450
- System Agent voltage at 1.0V
- Sync all cores at 45 (what do I have to set, to do this ?)
- CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V

When you turned the XMP on did you enable ASUS multicore enhancement? It will lock all your cores to 4.3 or 4.5GHz (dont remember which one) which could also be source of instability.
Most stable settings are following: Sync all cores at 45, leave the cache alone and set the CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V, should be rock solid stable just in case its still unstable even at 1503. Other settings can cause that the board does whatever it wants with any of the voltages.

No, I didn't enabled ASUS multicore enhancement. I really did nothing else than turning on XMP and changing the case Fans control from Auto to DC Mode.

You could also try running just the CPU overclocked at 4.5Ghz 1.160V and see if thats stable and then manually overclock the memory to XMP values.

I'm waiting for ASUS answer, and unless they strongly advise against going back to bios 1503, I will go to 1503.
At that moment I will try what you told me, but the problem of setting the DRAM manually is that there are probably a lot of parameters to change, and the only ones for which I think I know what to adjust, are the timings 15.15.15.35.
I do not even know whether to put 1T or 2T.
During my tests with the DRAM set to 3200MHZ and the timings in manual, I put 2T because with the bios 0802 when the XMP profile was functional, it was automaticaly set to 2T.

1.51V isnt gonna kill your RAM, i needed +-1.5V for 4000MHz RAM benchmarking but you shouldnt run it long term.

It never worked long like that, after setting the Ram on DDR4-3200 and leaving the RAM voltage on Auto, I went back directly into the bios to check what voltage was applied, it was written 1.51V.
So I Immediately set the voltage manually to 1.35V and I saved the changes.
It stayed with this voltage about 30 seconds only.

Thanks again, your help is appreciated.

 

[Wet_Paint]

but I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ? :

Hope this helps, just DON'T COPY the settings from the screenshots but use the numbers i gave you. You will probably have the settings in different order since i've Extreme-OV Jumper shortcircuited.

I would recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V OC with RAM at stock and if that proves stable(give it at least couple days) then try manually setting the RAM to 3200Mhz.

I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ?

Yes, only the ones that i mentioned.
CPU Core Voltage: Manual Mode
CPU Core Voltage Override: 1.160
DRAM REF Cycle Time: 450
CPU System Agent Voltage 1.0V

Your cooler should have no issues with this "OC", i can cool this with NH-D15 and single low RPM fan.

At the moment I do not need this CPU to be OC

I've encountered issue where stock settings were unstable, it was 4790K on MSI Z97 motherboard, Vcore was too low at stock. Thats why i recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V (mine does 4.5Ghz at 1.1135V, the extra voltage is for CPU quality variance).

I do not even know whether to put 1T or 2T.

Use 2T. T1 is usually used when you are overclocking or with some high end Samsung B-Dies.

 

[Spouny]

Ok understood.
At the moment I'm still with the Bios 1704, and I will proceed step by step, first by checking which RAM frequency could be used with 1704.
Then I'll go back to the 1503 to perform the same tests.

I still have 2 questions for which I am interested:
- We did not talk about timings. I will manually select the RAM frequency and use the PC a few days between each step increase. I started from 2133MHZ, then I went to 2400MHz, and at this moment I'm testing 2666MHz. Regarding the timmings I manually set those of the XMP profile (15.15.15.35). I did this because the goal is to get closer to what I had before, but am I doing well ?
- In your previous post you said "I would recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V OC with RAM at the end and if that proves stable (give it at least couple days) then try manually setting the RAM to 3200Mhz." Do I have to infer that it is sometimes possible to run the RAM at a higher frequency with a CPU OC, or it's not the case but the correct order in which to do things is to start with the CPU OC, and then to set the RAM ?

Are the settings as shown on the pictures below OK (exept the DRAM frequency which is currently 2666MHz) ?

 

[Wet_Paint]

We did not talk about timings.

Keep the timing as specified by manufacturer 15-15-15-35.

but am I doing well ?

Yep, just keep increasing it until you reach 3200Mhz, i wouldnt go past that. But between RAM frequency increase wait at least 2 days to see if its actually stable.

sometimes possible to run the RAM at a higher frequency with a CPU OC

The answer is yes and no at the same time. As you increase the CPU GHz the motherboard will increase some voltages that are on auto without you even knowing to make sure its stable. This might indirectly cause better stability with memory OC but in your case it was to rule out possibility of unstable CPU.

start with the CPU OC, and then to set the RAM ?

You should always overclock only one component at the time in order to know whats actually unstable. Since we know that the 4.5Ghz OC is 99,999% stable then you can focus solely on the RAM.

Are the settings as shown on the pictures below OK

Looks good to me.

 

[Spouny]

Thanks for all, I'll test that and report in a fews days.

Yesterday I had an answer from ASUS support, what they said/advise me :
- Clear CMOS for reset of the Bios memory, then reflash the same version 1704 with the function "USB Bios Flashback",
- If I get the same unsatisfactory operation of the PC, they tell me to proceed in the same way to downgrade Bios version, and try if it improves,
- To contact them again when I have tested this, to keep them informed of the situation.

The first step, I wonder if it is not to check that there was not a bug during the upgrade, due to the fact that I had left my profile active instead of resetting the Bios to the parameters by default as it is usually advised.

I'll do this in a few days when I will know the maximum frequency that I can reach in the current state.

 

[Spouny]

Results of the following tests, always without CPU OC :
- RAM frequency 2800MHz => OK for 2 days of test,
- RAM frequency 3000MHz => OK for 2 days of test,
It's Strange that at 3200MHz impossible to boot even once, and at 3000MHz everything works perfectly.
So I retried at 3200MHz to confirm that this frequency is NOK, it was confirmed => no boot (Blue Screen your PC have a problem).
I'm starting to seriously think that it's just at 3200MHz that it's broken.
I set it to 3400MHz, and since this morning everything works perfectly.
It could just be a bug at the 3200MHz, probably due to the fact that before updating the Bios I did not reset all the parameters to their default value, and that my RAM was set to 3200MHz .
Next test, do what advised me ASUS => Default Bios settings before reflash of the same bios and test at 3200MHz.

 

[jaggerwild]

The TUF series seems to have been down graded, as I had a TUF Z270. And it was a dog, it does not have the support of the upper tier Asus boards. Sorry the topic was highjacked

 

[Wet_Paint]

I wonder if it is not to check that there was not a bug during the upgrade, due to the fact that I had left my profile active instead of resetting the Bios to the parameters by default as it is usually advised.

t could just be a bug at the 3200MHz, probably due to the fact that before updating the Bios I did not reset all the parameters to their default value, and that my RAM was set to 3200MHz .

Both of these definetly couldnt have caused any of these issues.

So I retried at 3200MHz to confirm that this frequency is NOK, it was confirmed => no boot (Blue Screen your PC have a problem).
I'm starting to seriously think that it's just at 3200MHz that it's broken.
I set it to 3400MHz, and since this morning everything works perfectly.

I have the same with 3800Mhz, cant run it even with the same settings that can run nearly 100% stable at 4000Mhz. There is work around but you would have to change the CPU strap and it would get kind of complicated, so just dont.

You can try running at 3400Mhz 15-15-15-35 and see if its stable long term or if you are too worried about stability just tune it down to 3000Mhz.

Next test, do what advised me ASUS => Default Bios settings before reflash of the same bios and test at 3200MHz.

I'm 100% sure this wont help either, the issues is with how the motherboard handles memory, not necessery with the settings in BIOS, probably cant be fixed with bios update either.

Since you are already on 1704, just stick with it, make sure your CPU is properly cooled (below 85°C during Cinebench R15) and actually enjoy your PC without going thru troubleshooting hell for nothing. I regret spending so much time on my motherboard instead of actually playing games or doing something thats actually entertaining.

The TUF series seems to have been down graded, as I had a TUF Z270. And it was a dog, it does not have the support of the upper tier Asus boards. Sorry the topic was highjacked

Ive noticed this too, with haswell most of them were solid and with 5 year warranty, skylake/kabylake had only the top end models somewhat decent, coffelake and above lost both quality and 5 year warranty, ASUS just turned them into low cost gimmick. Luckily no one is forced to buy only TUF and my next motherboard definitely wont be TUF if this is what they will be in future too.

 

[Spouny]

Results of latest tests, always without CPU OC :

RAM frequency 3400MHz => OK for 2 days of test.

Then, I tried what was advided by ASUS => Clear CMOS then reflash Bios 1704 with USB Bios Flashback.
I noticed the same malfunctions that after the first Bios update, impossible to boot with RAM set to 3200MHz, either by loading the XMP profile or setting everything manually, while from 2133 to 3400MHz all other frequencies work.

Then Clear CMOS and flash of the Bios 1503 with USB Bios Flashback.
And there everything works normally as before when I had the old version 0802.
I've loaded XMP profile, answered yes to the question, and no more problem with the RAM set at 3200MHz.
So you were 100% right, the Bios 1704 have bugs and was the source of my worries.

Now it remains me to try what you advised me about the light CPU OC :
- Sync all cores,
- 45 ratio,
- Manual CPU core voltage,
- CPU Core Voltage Override 1.160V
- CPU System Agent Voltage 1.0V

And what about the DRAM Ref Cycle Time ? As now it seems to work well with the Auto XMP settings, do I have to set it to 450 as previously advised ?

Thanks for all.

 

[Wet_Paint]

And what about the DRAM Ref Cycle Time ? As now it seems to work well with the Auto XMP settings, do I have to set it to 450 as previously advised ?

Try to lower it to 350 (lower is actually better with this one) but you shouldnt go any lower as your memory will be extremely hard to stabilize.

You should also lower the other settings, CPU Core voltage override should be fine with 1.145V and System Agent probably needs only like 0,925V. I told you to use very conservative voltages which are not really needed if your system is running properly like it is right now.

 

[cstkl1]

Results of latest tests, always without CPU OC :

RAM frequency 3400MHz => OK for 2 days of test.

Then, I tried what was advided by ASUS => Clear CMOS then reflash Bios 1704 with USB Bios Flashback.
I noticed the same malfunctions that after the first Bios update, impossible to boot with RAM set to 3200MHz, either by loading the XMP profile or setting everything manually, while from 2133 to 3400MHz all other frequencies work.

Then Clear CMOS and flash of the Bios 1503 with USB Bios Flashback.
And there everything works normally as before when I had the old version 0802.
I've loaded XMP profile, answered yes to the question, and no more problem with the RAM set at 3200MHz.
So you were 100% right, the Bios 1704 have bugs and was the source of my worries.

Now it remains me to try what you advised me about the light CPU OC :
- Sync all cores,
- 45 ratio,
- Manual CPU core voltage,
- CPU Core Voltage Override 1.160V
- CPU System Agent Voltage 1.0V

And what about the DRAM Ref Cycle Time ? As now it seems to work well with the Auto XMP settings, do I have to set it to 450 as previously advised ?

Thanks for all.

asus x299 right up to bios 0503 had a dram strap issue for 3200. cant remember which one but it was either the 100 or 133. only one worked.

guessing this was your problem.

also suspect at 1704 your xmp used the wrong dram clk.

vcssa. seriously right to 3800c16@1.3v just left it at auto which had a value of 0.768v on load for 4x8gb. daily i run 3733@1.285v. strix x299-e btw with 7820x.

trfc on the latest bios doesnt have as much impact as tfaw and trefi. so i would set 16, 32767. notice this from hci memtest runtime to complete 100% on 28800mb (16x1800). indicates large quick reads/writes/copy. tref u cam try these for bdie 8gb sticks 280/327/350/374.

mesh scaling on voltages right up to 30/31 will be 1v or lower. 32 and above things get whack. best way to test it is via y-cruncher via avx 512. you pass couple rounds of that.. it will pass everything.

bios 1503 above had massive improvement in stability. 1704 atm seems to cater for the latest hedt 9 series cpu i guess.

mesh 30, ram >=3200@1t tfaw 16, trefi max.. is superb. above this improvements start to be minimal based on fps/cinebench scores etc

 

[Spouny]

Hi,
The PC seems to work properly since the return to Bios 1503, except that from time to time when I start the PC, it does not boot and the displayed Q-code is E9 => S3 Resume PPI not Found.
It may have nothing to do with my bios update, but this problem appeared for the first time a few days later, and it happens once every 5 to 10 starts.
When it happens I have to press on the power button during a few seconds to turn off the PC, when starting after that tells me to go into the bios by pressing a key, once in the bios I'm exiting without saving changes and the PC works normally until the next time. Any idea about why this problem ?
Thanks.

 

[Wet_Paint]

Any idea about why this problem ?

I never use sleep mode so i have never encountered this issue but it seems like it might be OS or SSD issue. From my understanding the data required to wake up from sleep aren't located where they are supposed to be. You can just not use sleep mode or update OS and see what happens.

 

[Spouny]

I never uses sleep mode, I'm stoping and starting my PC each time.
I've searched internet to try to find what do I have to check on the PC, maybee a bad connection, but I've found nothing.
Bye the way, when I have this problem, it don't pass the boot phases, it's crashed before the message to press a key to enter the bios, maybe just 1 sec after pressing the power button.

 

[Wet_Paint]

Did it start right after the BIOS update? If so you might wanna try to increase CPU voltage or maybe lower your DRAM overclock. If that doesnt help try re-seating RAM sticks and CPU.

 

[Spouny]

No it didn't start right after the bios update. The last bios update was at the end of May and the first time I had this problem was last week, so one month later.
Next time it will occur I will try to unconnect and reconnect all connectors of the PC, and re-seat RAM sticks as you advised.
Thank you.

 

[Spouny]

Hi,

Have someone tested one the two latest bios release, V1902 (2019/07/19) and/or V2002 (2019/10/04) ?

Thanks.