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Waste Heat

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Ya lost me at us being responsible for volcanoes and how terrible storms are when they have been terrible and killed millions of us, its just that we didn't have the internet or 24 hour news to pump fear into our brains. They are trying to go to Mars as proof that we can, its our exploration spirit, not that we are ruining our planet and they better run off to another one, they want to be famous and remembered, they want to do something no one else has done and will ever do again.
All I am saying is that the Volcanic activity could be a result of the Water Vapour problem.
 
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All I am saying is that the Volcanic activity could be a result of the Water Vapour problem.

I'm dying to hear this explanation. You have the floor and my attention.
 
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I do, it was more of a point at how extreme a fact can be presented.

We know the air temperature is rising, but do we really know what effect its having on a specific storm at a specific time with all other variables accounted for? Are power plants to blame and will the move to nuclear base load VS the CO2 savings be enough with waste heat still being generated? Will solar and solar alone be the only viable option to prevent waste heat? I want to fund and pursue it, there is no reason we shouldn't be asking and researching all the options, but I don't want confirmation bias or any other bias to get in the way. We have heard way too many theories presented as fact about when we will all die in a catastrophe due to climate change especially when its presented to the masses.
I'd like for them to explain a few things as to how things were in the past and then to correlate that with how things were in recent history and THEN to how things are today.

Do remember scientists say waaaaaaay back in the day when the dinosaurs roamed, the earth was much warmer and volcanic activity was also greater - At least it's depicted that way in references to that time period.
You already had the heat present with volcanoes spewing the really nasty stuff on a constant basis (According to these depictions) which would, according to them and based on what these gasses are according to volcanology/vulcanology (Both terms are correct BTW - I checked that), adding to what should have been a runaway freight train greenhouse effect....
Which apparently never happened based on the science if it's correct.

We cooled down instead.

More recent history has us going through a 10,000 year ice age that literally dug out and created the Great Lakes for example as one of the effects of said ice age.
Later on things warmed up again, then went back to a cooler state which we call the "Mini-Ice Age", that period of time only being from a few centuries ago to sometime in the 20th century - Then we warmed up again to the present day.

So - How did things get from really hot and nasty to really frigid cold, then warm, then cold yet again?
Even I have noticed things aren't as cool as they were before during my time here, having lived from a period when we had some colder winters to what doesn't really seem like winter so much anymore. I still remember freezing my literal ass off waiting on the bus in the morning in wintertime but these days it's not so bad out if I had to now.

It's also a proven fact, not fiction a volcanic eruption can have the opposite effect from what you'd think based on the gasses released and the amounts that are ejected... Massive amounts of some nasty stuff that are supposedly responsible for contributing to global warming.... And yet we cool down instead?

Think Krakatoa (1883) and the effects that it had world-wide, it's all factually documented.

I've always have and still believe there are too many factors in play for man, by himself to be a significant factor in what happens here even now. That doesn't mean we're not having an effect period, it's just I seriously doubt we have that much sway vs what nature can do if it wants to and I believe we're just on an upward temp trend again, per usual by nature as before.

Feel free of course to believe what you want because I do, I dare say as much too and that's fair enough.
 
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The Earth has gone through and will go through many different climates and it will be fine, until the sun starts to expand into a red giant
The question is, if humans will survive our own undoing with the planet and the climate. I for one would like to leave something behind for my children and potential grandchildren something as good or better than what I got.
 

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I watched it before this, it is clickbait. There are so many processes not accounted for, like as the temp rises more moisture will cause more clouds which are the overwhelming driving force in reflecting heat. https://climatekids.nasa.gov/cloud-climate/ Here is a kids version from Nasa. Factors like as the temp rises more infrared radiation will escape. Factors like as the temp rises the atmosphere will swell and we have data about what that causes short term but not long term.

From the linked source:

Clouds play an important role in both warming and cooling our planet. Clouds give us a cooler climate on Earth than we would enjoy without clouds. However, as Earth’s climate warms, we won’t always be able to count on this cooling effect.

Climate scientists predict that as Earth’s climate warms, there will also be fewer clouds to cool it down. So, unfortunately, we can’t count on clouds alone to slow down the warming.
 
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I'm dying to hear this explanation. You have the floor and my attention.
We can all agree that Earth's Glaciers are melting. What they teach us in Grade 7 Science is that Water has 3 processes. Think to yourself what amount of a Glacier being reduced by 40% that is a mile long and deep how much vapour in evaporation has been pumped into the atmosphere? Add the Poles and the increased cloud deck. Then look at Weather events over the last 20 years. We see now that Wind from the Arctic is strong enough to have a drastic effect on the Jet stream. There is a user on here from Winnipeg and I am sure he can tell you about the 4 day Snowstorm that hit that region last May. In fact there is so much Water Vapour in the upper atmosphere that California's Greed based drought has pretty much been rectified in 2 months. So let's think about about what I just said, 30 years of Drought mitigated in 2 Months of Rain. Let's look back to the Teens and see 3 Fully formed Hurricanes in the Atlantic basin. That is important because that is not Scientifically probable given the volume of Water in the Atlantic. What about Hurricane Sandy that hit America at Kitty Hawk, Charleston and Manhattan at the same time. In recent times the State of Indiana was flooded but in this time in Space Pakistan is dealing with unprecedented flooding. The Northern part of Earth was so stable that we had isms to describe the Seasons. March comes in like a lion and Goes out like a Lamb, April Showers bring May flowers. That is not true anymore (as much) and every part of Earth where man lives has had a 100+ mm rain event in 30 minutes to an hour in the last 15 years.

Meanwhile if you do a Google search on Volcanoes being active in the last 20 years you will see an increase in the frequency of Volcanoes in the last 20 years. That brings me back to the Jet stream. It is my Opinion that the Wind that comes from the Arctic is laced with Water Vapour and therefore has more inertia than the regular Wind. Indeed for me Polar Vortexes are exactly that. Remember the one in 2011 or 12 that made if -27C in Miami, Florida for a few days. That has allowed for one part of Canada to be -25 C on the same day where the other side is 12 C. This is not fiction that I am speaking but real events. I spent some time living in the Southern US and the first time I saw Rain in Louisiana I was impressed. I have seen that same rain in Toronto and we are no where near an Ocean.

I believe that Earth has it's own engine and process. We have used Math to send a probe to Pluto but too few of us appreciate the jewel that is Earth but also Organic engine. There was some historic Flooding in Australia and the reporter had the video image of a Street corner where the only human thing visible was the roofs and the very top of a Stop sign. As he was describing the Tragic loss of property a loon swims across the screen oblivious to the Human suffering. I have also seen that Earth does not stop in Organics production. If you live in the Northern Hemisphere I am sure you Marvel how one day everything is just Green. The thing is I remember when the Grass would also go brown. It has been my reflection that the Grass on my Front yard has been Green for more than 365 Days straight. As thanks to the Water Vapour we had no Winter where I live in 2022. It even helped the Conflict that is going on in the Ukraine in a more humane way than we Humans could do.
 
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We can all agree that Earth's Glaciers are melting. What they teach us in Grade 7 Science is that Water has 3 processes. Think to yourself what amount of a Glacier being reduced by 40% that is a mile long and deep how much vapour in evaporation has been pumped into the atmosphere? Add the Poles and the increased cloud deck. Then look at Weather events over the last 20 years. We see now that Wind from the Arctic is strong enough to have a drastic effect on the Jet stream. There is a user on here from Winnipeg and I am sure he can tell you about the 4 day Snowstorm that hit that region last May. In fact there is so much Water Vapour in the upper atmosphere that California's Greed based drought has pretty much been rectified in 2 months. So let's think about about what I just said, 30 years of Drought mitigated in 2 Months of Rain. Let's look back to the Teens and see 3 Fully formed Hurricanes in the Atlantic basin. That is important because that is not Scientifically probable given the volume of Water in the Atlantic. What about Hurricane Sandy that hit America at Kitty Hawk, Charleston and Manhattan at the same time. In recent times the State of Indiana was flooded but in this time in Space Pakistan is dealing with unprecedented flooding. The Northern part of Earth was so stable that we had isms to describe the Seasons. March comes in like a lion and Goes out like a Lamb, April Showers bring May flowers. That is not true anymore (as much) and every part of Earth where man lives has had a 100+ mm rain event in 30 minutes to an hour in the last 15 years.

Meanwhile if you do a Google search on Volcanoes being active in the last 20 years you will see an increase in the frequency of Volcanoes in the last 20 years. That brings me back to the Jet stream. It is my Opinion that the Wind that comes from the Arctic is laced with Water Vapour and therefore has more inertia than the regular Wind. Indeed for me Polar Vortexes are exactly that. Remember the one in 2011 or 12 that made if -27C in Miami, Florida for a few days. That has allowed for one part of Canada to be -25 C on the same day where the other side is 12 C. This is not fiction that I am speaking but real events. I spent some time living in the Southern US and the first time I saw Rain in Louisiana I was impressed. I have seen that same rain in Toronto and we are no where near an Ocean.

I believe that Earth has it's own engine and process. We have used Math to send a probe to Pluto but too few of us appreciate the jewel that is Earth but also Organic engine. There was some historic Flooding in Australia and the reporter had the video image of a Street corner where the only human thing visible was the roofs and the very top of a Stop sign. As he was describing the Tragic loss of property a loon swims across the screen oblivious to the Human suffering. I have also seen that Earth does not stop in Organics production. If you live in the Northern Hemisphere I am sure you Marvel how one day everything is just Green. The thing is I remember when the Grass would also go brown. It has been my reflection that the Grass on my Front yard has been Green for more than 365 Days straight. As thanks to the Water Vapour we had no Winter where I live in 2022. It even helped the Conflict that is going on in the Ukraine in a more humane way than we Humans could do.

It's important to remember Mars was clearly like Earth in the past too, it probably had its own balance mechanisms in place, as that is inherently built into physics, but won't ultimately protect everything, and sometimes things just fail.

I think the biggest issue we face regarding waste heat will be when the permafrost melts in Canada and Russia. From what I understand, it has been permanently frozen, trapping in all the methane for thousands of years. Once it thaws and releases the methane in massive amounts, that is when climate shift truly will take place.

I think a lot of people get it wrong when they say humans are causing the climate shift, what they should instead say is humans are causing the planet enough to warm that the permafrost is melting, and when that melts, you can kiss stable food supply for 8 billion people goodbye. Expect mass famine. For billions.


 
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I'm dying to hear this explanation. You have the floor and my attention.
I'm not sure about the whole volcano thing but I do know storms are recorded as being more intense in recent years. And not minorly so.

For sure, and for every study or paper with supporting evidence there is one that claims the opposite.
This is why peer review matters, of course.

Clouds can absolutely be greenhouse-like agents. Look at Venus.
 
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We can all agree that Earth's Glaciers are melting. What they teach us in Grade 7 Science is that Water has 3 processes. Think to yourself what amount of a Glacier being reduced by 40% that is a mile long and deep how much vapour in evaporation has been pumped into the atmosphere? Add the Poles and the increased cloud deck. Then look at Weather events over the last 20 years. We see now that Wind from the Arctic is strong enough to have a drastic effect on the Jet stream. There is a user on here from Winnipeg and I am sure he can tell you about the 4 day Snowstorm that hit that region last May. In fact there is so much Water Vapour in the upper atmosphere that California's Greed based drought has pretty much been rectified in 2 months. So let's think about about what I just said, 30 years of Drought mitigated in 2 Months of Rain. Let's look back to the Teens and see 3 Fully formed Hurricanes in the Atlantic basin. That is important because that is not Scientifically probable given the volume of Water in the Atlantic. What about Hurricane Sandy that hit America at Kitty Hawk, Charleston and Manhattan at the same time. In recent times the State of Indiana was flooded but in this time in Space Pakistan is dealing with unprecedented flooding. The Northern part of Earth was so stable that we had isms to describe the Seasons. March comes in like a lion and Goes out like a Lamb, April Showers bring May flowers. That is not true anymore (as much) and every part of Earth where man lives has had a 100+ mm rain event in 30 minutes to an hour in the last 15 years.

Meanwhile if you do a Google search on Volcanoes being active in the last 20 years you will see an increase in the frequency of Volcanoes in the last 20 years. That brings me back to the Jet stream. It is my Opinion that the Wind that comes from the Arctic is laced with Water Vapour and therefore has more inertia than the regular Wind. Indeed for me Polar Vortexes are exactly that. Remember the one in 2011 or 12 that made if -27C in Miami, Florida for a few days. That has allowed for one part of Canada to be -25 C on the same day where the other side is 12 C. This is not fiction that I am speaking but real events. I spent some time living in the Southern US and the first time I saw Rain in Louisiana I was impressed. I have seen that same rain in Toronto and we are no where near an Ocean.

I believe that Earth has it's own engine and process. We have used Math to send a probe to Pluto but too few of us appreciate the jewel that is Earth but also Organic engine. There was some historic Flooding in Australia and the reporter had the video image of a Street corner where the only human thing visible was the roofs and the very top of a Stop sign. As he was describing the Tragic loss of property a loon swims across the screen oblivious to the Human suffering. I have also seen that Earth does not stop in Organics production. If you live in the Northern Hemisphere I am sure you Marvel how one day everything is just Green. The thing is I remember when the Grass would also go brown. It has been my reflection that the Grass on my Front yard has been Green for more than 365 Days straight. As thanks to the Water Vapour we had no Winter where I live in 2022. It even helped the Conflict that is going on in the Ukraine in a more humane way than we Humans could do.

We get Arctic blasts in Montana during the winter and spring, it happens more on La Nina years, which is controlled by the ocean temps and winds, we are going out of La Nina right into a El Nino season so the deep polar vortexes should stop and we should get more mild summer temps and more precipitation, and possibly very strong storms.

Speaking to the overall weather, I lived in Colorado most of my life and I remember as a kid there were years where the peaks would have snow year round, and as an adult camping there was years with no real snow at 10,000 ft in October. Here in MT there have been delayed ski seasons from lack of snow. We are certainly changing the weather some, but its hard if not impossible to blame just humanity, the change does drive some storms to be stronger, we also have more people and "property" to damage so the storms that once may have torn up a farm and some trees now decimate a town or city. As far as how much the intensity of the storms at their peak, there have been records of severe storms in Montana from the tribes, even our records show in 1930's there were days in December where it was in the 60F to 70F range, well before CO2 could be blamed directly. But I do agree the extremes are trending towards the 2000's so the weather is changing, and its correlated with higher CO2 in the atmosphere, and humans are mostly to blame for that, some might be natural but we are the 99%. The question is what do we do about it, we can't just stop flying (more efficient than driving for the most part) , driving, moving goods like food. We can't stop the development of countries that need infrastructure to raise their people out of poverty. We need to find ways to manage our consumption, and the biggest issue I see if the loudest voices are the most guilty, private planes, sports cars, yachts, mansions, wasteful eccentric splurging while wagging their finger at the average person, I think most of them don't want the average person to use up the limited supply of petrol products and easily extract-able resources, it explains their whole lifestyle of all for them and a little or none for anyone they don't consider their equal.
 
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but its hard if not impossible to blame just humanity
About wording phrases, you are playing that game here. Of course it is hard to EXCLUSIVELY blame humanity but no one is trying to do that. What isn't hard is naming them as the chief agent for the recent drastic change.
 

the54thvoid

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About wording phrases, you are playing that game here. Of course it is hard to EXCLUSIVELY blame humanity but no one is trying to do that. What isn't hard is naming them as the chief agent for the recent drastic change.

In all fairness, he does specifically say this:

and humans are mostly to blame for that, some might be natural but we are the 99%.

after the other comments. In context, the latter statement moderates the first.
 
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In all fairness, he does specifically say this:



after the other comments. In context, the latter statement moderates the first.
That I missed, thanks.
 
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Did you know putting your phone on dark mode saves energy?
Also if no one calls you, you can turn airplane mode on. Your wifi still works.
 
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'Simple'. Send the heat
TO SPACE

(Potentially Practical) 'passive' solution:

Optimal 'active' Solution:
 
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I need to heat a swimming pool with the amount of waste heat these folding cards and PSUs are putting out.
 
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By that reasoning ozone can have no significant effect...
That is ignoring the simple fact that like Sulpher ,Ozone goes high and fast , co2 is a mixer, and some gasses lay low.

But this dynamic impacts it's effect, and required ratios.
 
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So you agree that reasoning by low % is not sufficient.
 
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So you agree that reasoning by low % is not sufficient.
Yeah absolutely, just wanted to nudge that Sulpher point home :) because to be honest I have my own theory on global warming:D Sulpher , it forms a growing layer very high up, cars used to emit significant amounts of sulpher and lead.
Now we have the explosion of rocketry and aviation instead.
I accept, I could be wrong, given history though, ,Scientists should also accept they too could be wrong.
 

the54thvoid

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For info- thread is about waste heat. Not gases.

Don't get derailed.
 
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When I said my absorption fridge is more efficient than an electric one because it burns the fuel right at home instead of at a power plant 3 years ago.


You burn the fuel and it creates heat, the heat causes a chemical reaction that lowers the temperature of the container. With electric fridges the fuel burns at a plant, then power gets to your house and moves the motor, which still creates heat to work, therefore it's less efficient. By what % I don't know, there's still the process of extracting petrol and refining it into kerosene but you skip the part where it burns somewhere else.
So I'm creating 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001% less waste heat.
 
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When I said my absorption fridge....
You had me at Absorption Refrigerator. No pun intended, that ancient tech is cool stuff.

Modern CAD, AI/MI modeling, and materials-advancements have (at least on paper, and in single-unit demos) produced some surprising advances in efficiency.

While it's merely tangential to the discussion:
I do believe that looking backwards in technology, while utilizing new tools and materials will be instrumental in creating the pro-human future we need.

All this talk of waste heat and neo-retrotech, immediately brings to mind modern industrial steam powered machinery.
Something very related to the discussion (and on-the-horizon) are Heat Pumps capable of 'upgrading steam quality' using waste heat from separate industrial processes. Until recently, the idea of a truly high-temperature heat pump, had mostly been relegated to fiction (like BattleTech, etc.)...
 
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All this talk of waste heat and neo-retrotech, immediately brings to mind modern industrial steam powered machinery.
Something very related to the discussion (and on-the-horizon) are Heat Pumps capable of 'upgrading steam quality' using waste heat from separate industrial processes. Until recently, the idea of a truly high-temperature heat pump, had mostly been relegated to fiction (like BattleTech, etc.)...
So..... boiling water, but faster.


You had me at Absorption Refrigerator. No pun intended, that ancient tech is cool stuff.

Modern CAD, AI/MI modeling, and materials-advancements have (at least on paper, and in single-unit demos) produced some surprising advances in efficiency.
Mine is from the 50's, a must-have though as power goes out often for weeks during summer so we must have an alternative to the regular fridge. Running a generator for too long is costly and we were only using it for the lights anyway so I set up a small solar circuit with a battery that can run 12 volt lights for some hours, inverter was a complete rip-off so I skipped it, plus the circuit with the inverter would've been more complicated than what I did.
 
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You had me at Absorption Refrigerator. No pun intended, that ancient tech is cool stuff.
Ancient Tech? 1850 is a long time ago, but hardly ancient.
 
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