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What are the consequences of genetically altering ticks, fleas, and mosquitoes to control their populations?

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not sure what this convo is all about, just wanted to say you are comparing a for profit greedy scumbag single individual with entire teams of the highest scientific minds working together in both the private and non-private sectors.
Yeah because teams of highly scientific minds always pans out eh , you not heard of any massive f ups by them, you want proof they happen?! Start with philidermide , might be spelled incorrectly.

I work in a science based company and field, do you think I speak of something I know nothing of.

And in part I thought I was replying to other guy not you OP.
 
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the54thvoid

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The incidence of parasitic disease among humans has decreased every decade since the industrial revolution began. The sky isn't falling. As for "fish patterns", warmer water means a larger overall fish population. i.e. more food for all. That's a good thing too.

As for the belief that cold, dry climates are best for us, a quick question: would you rather be dropped alone on a warm tropical island, or Antarctica? There's a reason they built Disney World in south Florida, not Saskatchewan. Likewise, there's also a reason the human species began in Africa, not Siberia.

Fleas. Ticks. Mosquitoes.

Back on track with your views on their treatment with genetic alterations to control population, please.
 
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teams of highly scientific minds always pans out eh , you not heard of any massive f ups by them, you want proof they happen?! Start with philidermide , might be spelled incorrectly.

I work in a science based company and field, do you think I speak of something I know nothing of.


To bring this back on subject, one thing the geological record of the earth makes clear is this: species don't last. Mosquitos will -- with or without human intervention -- one day become extinct. And you know what? The earth will be just fine without them. I'm perfectly willing to nudge us a little faster to that utopian era.

So Moderator, another poster is allowed to call me a "pos", but you instantly edit from my post a simple reference to his bad grammar used to attack me? Delete my account from this site; I won't be returning.
 
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the54thvoid

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To bring this back on subject, one thing the geological record of the earth makes clear is this: species don't last. Mosquitos will -- with or without human intervention -- one day become extinct. And you know what? The earth will be just fine without them. I'm perfectly willing to nudge us a little faster to that utopian era.

So Moderator, another poster is allowed to call me a "pos", but you instantly edit from my post a simple reference to his bad grammar? Delete my account from this BS site; I won't be returning.

The 'pos' remark didn't ping on my radar. I'll deal with that. You may stay or leave. Your call.
 

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The question is are they really the bottom of the foodchain? At least for ticks/fleas, I know of no natural predators.
Then you didn't do much research to find out.


Ok, so there are predators. I guess the real question then is how emeshed in the food chain they are.
Probably quite a bit considering most of these species that eat ticks exist in my part of the world and we can often have quite a large tick population, but that really depends on how the winter and spring goes because there are conditions where they thrive. As I said, it's sometimes hard to understand or predict how this will impact the ecosystem which is why this is dangerous. We can make assumptions, but our assumptions very well could be wrong (or at the very least, impoverished,) because more often that not, we don't have a full picture before making these kinds of decisions because of how complicated the system is. Just my 2¢.
 
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Aquinus

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Low quality post by R-T-B
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I'm aware of the ease of which data is at our fingertips my dude. I didn't do the search myself because sometimes, my true focus lies elsewhere. Apologies. You now have my full attention, honest...

*goes back to searching for hot single frogs near me*
 

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Then you didn't do much research to find out.



Probably quite a bit considering most of these species that eat ticks exist in my part of the world and we can often have quite a large tick population, but that really depends on how the winter and spring goes because there are conditions where they thrive. As I said, it's sometimes hard to understand or predict how this will impact the ecosystem which is why this is dangerous. We can make assumptions, but our assumptions very well could be wrong (or at the very least, impoverished,) because more often that not, we don't have a full picture before making these kinds of decisions because of how complicated the system is. Just my 2¢.

Alright you just found a real gem here, nice find.

"

1. Oxpeckers​

Oxpeckers are a common species that eat ticks, but they only live in Africa. Because of the high volume of ticks that they consume, they are also known as tickbirds."

The answer seems simple then, we need to import these Oxpecker birds to my area, so I can read peacefully under trees once again. :roll:
 

the54thvoid

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Alright you just found a real gem here, nice find.

"

1. Oxpeckers​

Oxpeckers are a common species that eat ticks, but they only live in Africa. Because of the high volume of ticks that they consume, they are also known as tickbirds."

The answer seems simple then, we need to import these Oxpecker birds to my area, so I can read peacefully under trees once again. :roll:

Don't forget to import the ox as well.
 
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To bring this back on subject, one thing the geological record of the earth makes clear is this: species don't last. Mosquitos will -- with or without human intervention -- one day become extinct. And you know what? The earth will be just fine without them. I'm perfectly willing to nudge us a little faster to that utopian era.

So Moderator, another poster is allowed to call me a "pos", but you instantly edit from my post a simple reference to his bad grammar used to attack me? Delete my account from this site; I won't be returning.
My word, I think you miss understood that.
Pos science guy = positive science guy .

Sorry I wasn't trying to offend you just on a phone, in work typing quick.

@the54thvoid "The 'pos' remark didn't ping on my radar. I'll deal with that. You may stay or leave. Your call."

Nor should you Pos, neg , you see pile of £#@& that's on you.

In context I hadn't even got that flamey with endymio but like the word Pal , Pos is apparently always bad?! Wtaf.
 
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Don't forget to import the ox as well.
This is getting out of hand...

 
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well there is a drawback obviously. I'm not saying we should move to a cave and live there but there is a lot we can do to make it better. The problem is global and it will stay global. Global warming correlates with industry but with poverty as well. Unfortunately we are not good mitigating the latter one either. Nobody cares about Earth when they struggle. Some are just ignorant and think this is the new generation's to come problem. I think people are not ready for anything to make it better. Especially when they being drive by fame, wealth, sick ambitions etc.
Some things will never change but when they do, it will be too late.

It is hard to discuss these issues without getting political; they are, unfortunately, intertwined.
 
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Can't validate this bit and the bits on lyme disease origins I can find in mainstream science seem to dispute that possibility:


He probably was a baddie, lots of them in paperclip, but just trying to find the facts here.
Understandable, but if you look at what he was doing in Germany leading up to paperclip it becomes more damning. The US DS scum and Nazis that bullied us into the treaty def wanted him to continue his work, also why they put him on a island with a cover facility, because many of his colleagues ended up in USSR continuing same types of research wanting to get ahead of it. After operation Northwoods papers came out, and other treasonous experiments papers were released along with MKUltra and Mockingbird you pretty much can tell that these psychos will stop at nothing and will do the most dangerous of tests on any people or country. The scientists on the Manhattan experiment thought that if they dropped fatboy it could ignite the whole atmosphere in a runaway chain reaction and decided to do it anyway. If that isnt the pinnacle of ego, ignorance, and just psychotic behavior at the very least it explains why we live in the hellish world that we do.
 

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Understandable, but if you look at what he was doing in Germany leading up to paperclip it becomes more damning. The US DS scum and Nazis that bullied us into the treaty def wanted him to continue his work, also why they put him on a island with a cover facility, because many of his colleagues ended up in USSR continuing same types of research wanting to get ahead of it. After operation Northwoods papers came out, and other treasonous experiments papers were released along with MKUltra and Mockingbird you pretty much can tell that these psychos will stop at nothing and will do the most dangerous of tests on any people or country. The scientists on the Manhattan experiment thought that if they dropped fatboy it could ignite the whole atmosphere in a runaway chain reaction and decided to do it anyway. If that isnt the pinnacle of ego, ignorance, and just psychotic behavior at the very least it explains why we live in the hellish world that we do.

Wasn't there are also some concern about some scientists making a "mini black hole" like a decade ago? I can't remember. I understand what you mean though yes, historically speaking as a species we have been reckless when tinkering with things that we can never fully understand. Also, the year 2022 is the first time the human DNA has been 100% sequenced... I thought we had done that decades ago... but I was wrong, it was literally in the new a couple months ago... this is why I like Socrates so much, he often reminds us "how do we know what we know" we take so much for granted and just accept it as fact, instead of doing our due diligence in researching it properly.

I have to admit, I was a bit worried when they released the genetically modified mosquitoes in Florida, I understand population control is needed, but on the same hand sometimes i do wonder, like ten years from now, will this yield any consequences that we simply can't imagine right now? It's so hard to know really. On the other hand, I look at places like Hawaii that never had mosquitoes until recently, and that gives me comfort in the sense that whatever cycles of life happened there for eons, did just fine without mosquitoes. So I am not too worried about that, mostly I am worried about the quote from Jurassic Park movie from many years ago, "Life always finds a way" -Goldblum's character, I forget his name lol (in context the mosquito genetic editing makes it so they only breed males right now in Florida, and hopefully that will cause great population decrease, but not eradication) but genetics can change even without human intervention, so what if in ten years we start seeing mosquitoes twice the size as before? probably won't happen, but I do think there is some hubris with humans tinkering in genetics.

I honestly don't know where I stand one way or the other
 
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Wasn't there are also some concern about some scientists making a "mini black hole" like a decade ago? I can't remember. I understand what you mean though yes, historically speaking as a species we have been reckless when tinkering with things that we can never fully understand. Also, the year 2022 is the first time the human DNA has been 100% sequenced... I thought we had done that decades ago... but I was wrong, it was literally in the new a couple months ago... this is why I like Socrates so much, he often reminds us "how do we know what we know" we take so much for granted and just accept it as fact, instead of doing our due diligence in researching it properly.

I have to admit, I was a bit worried when they released the genetically modified mosquitoes in Florida, I understand population control is needed, but on the same hand sometimes i do wonder, like ten years from now, will this yield any consequences that we simply can't imagine right now? It's so hard to know really. On the other hand, I look at places like Hawaii that never had mosquitoes until recently, and that gives me comfort in the sense that whatever cycles of life happened there for eons, did just fine without mosquitoes. So I am not too worried about that, mostly I am worried about the quote from Jurassic Park movie from many years ago, "Life always finds a way" -Goldblum's character, I forget his name lol (in context the mosquito genetic editing makes it so they only breed males right now in Florida, and hopefully that will cause great population decrease, but not eradication) but genetics can change even without human intervention, so what if in ten years we start seeing mosquitoes twice the size as before? probably won't happen, but I do think there is some hubris with humans tinkering in genetics.

I honestly don't know where I stand one way or the other

There is a great possibility we will be wiped out by a tiny microbe/virus/disease of our own making that we stupidly did not make a antigen/cure for.
 

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@CallandorWoT -as the quote goes, life always finds a way.

It doesn't mention what life...
 
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Genetic alterations in any organism have extremely high likelihood of having unforeseen secondary consequences. We are rarely if ever sure that specific functions of specific genes are the only ones and that the genes we're attempting to modify don't serve any additional purposes that could have very complex mechanisms behind them.

Most likely outcome: they won't survive for long after modifications. Second most likely: they survive while being permanently impaired one additional way or another.
 
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You're asking a question that nobody has or can have the answer to, because the only way to have that answer is to actually make these genetic alterations, release the modified fauna, and observe what happens. What is true is that in the case of mosquitoes, the scientists who have studied them and their genes are able, with a very high probability, to say that if they alter a particular set of genes, that will cause the mosquitoes to behave in a particular way. And they rigorously test the actual behaviour, repeatedly, using small sample groups, before they're allowed to even consider letting GM mosquitoes into the wild.

Of course, there is the problem of what happens when, inevitably, there are unforeseen consequences. Should there be a kill switch of some kind? What does that entail? What happens if it malfunctions? It's a very slippery slope that will only get more slippery as the human population continues to expand, we continue to encroach on areas that were previously without humans, and gengineering becomes something that any government has the capabilities for.

Personally I'd much prefer the pest problem to be one solved by medical, not gengineering, technology. In other words, develop a vaccine against malaria instead of modifying the mosquitoes to be unable to breed, and similarly for Lyme disease and ticks. Yes, mosquito and tick bites are gross and annoying but they're also not a problem if the dieases these insects carry are no longer a problem.

A Dick head sold the idea of putting lead in fuel to stop knocking, he sciences the shit and Proved it was safe.
Midgley did nothing of the sort; he knew the evidence but simply didn't believe that lead was harmful, so he perpetuated lies about its safety as a fuel additive because he wanted to make money. And this was nearly a century ago, when peer review and corporate responsibility weren't a thing; the same s**t would not fly today in any way shape or form.

If you want an example of what happens to scientific frauds today, look no further than Andrew Wakefield's lies about vaccines and autism and his resulting blacklist from any reputable scientific journal or group. The British government even went so far as to ban him from practicing medicine ever again. There are still idiots who believe his nonsense, but they're the same idiots that believe 5G causes cancer.

The incidence of parasitic disease among humans has decreased every decade since the industrial revolution began. The sky isn't falling. As for "fish patterns", warmer water means a larger overall fish population. i.e. more food for all. That's a good thing too.

As for the belief that cold, dry climates are best for us, a quick question: would you rather be dropped alone on a warm tropical island, or Antarctica? There's a reason they built Disney World in south Florida, not Saskatchewan. Likewise, there's also a reason the human species began in Africa, not Siberia.
So many lies in one post. Take them elsewhere.

Genetic alterations in any organism have extremely high likelihood of having unforeseen secondary consequences. We are rarely if ever sure that specific functions of specific genes are the only ones and that the genes we're attempting to modify don't serve any additional purposes that could have very complex mechanisms behind them.

Most likely outcome: they won't survive for long after modifications. Second most likely: they survive while being permanently impaired one additional way or another.
You really think that the scientists who've been studying mosquitoes and their genome for literally decades don't know this, huh? Boy have I got some news for you.
 
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You really think that the scientists who've been studying mosquitoes and their genome for literally decades don't know this, huh? Boy have I got some news for you.
You really think every person reading this thread is a "scientist who has been studying mosquitoes and their genome for literally decades"? :roll:
 
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You really think every person reading this thread is a "scientist who has been studying mosquitoes and their genome for literally decades"? :roll:
My point is that nobody is going to be permitted (at least in the West, where scientific ethics exist) to modify the genome of anything before being reasonably sure that what's being done won't have the side effects you speak of. And that the modifications are well-tested before considering release into the wild, again to guard again side effects.
 
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You're asking a question that nobody has or can have the answer to, because the only way to have that answer is to actually make these genetic alterations, release the modified fauna, and observe what happens. What is true is that in the case of mosquitoes, the scientists who have studied them and their genes are able, with a very high probability, to say that if they alter a particular set of genes, that will cause the mosquitoes to behave in a particular way. And they rigorously test the actual behaviour, repeatedly, using small sample groups, before they're allowed to even consider letting GM mosquitoes into the wild.

Of course, there is the problem of what happens when, inevitably, there are unforeseen consequences. Should there be a kill switch of some kind? What does that entail? What happens if it malfunctions? It's a very slippery slope that will only get more slippery as the human population continues to expand, we continue to encroach on areas that were previously without humans, and gengineering becomes something that any government has the capabilities for.

Personally I'd much prefer the pest problem to be one solved by medical, not gengineering, technology. In other words, develop a vaccine against malaria instead of modifying the mosquitoes to be unable to breed, and similarly for Lyme disease and ticks. Yes, mosquito and tick bites are gross and annoying but they're also not a problem if the dieases these insects carry are no longer a problem.


Midgley did nothing of the sort; he knew the evidence but simply didn't believe that lead was harmful, so he perpetuated lies about its safety as a fuel additive because he wanted to make money. And this was nearly a century ago, when peer review and corporate responsibility weren't a thing; the same s**t would not fly today in any way shape or form.

If you want an example of what happens to scientific frauds today, look no further than Andrew Wakefield's lies about vaccines and autism and his resulting blacklist from any reputable scientific journal or group. The British government even went so far as to ban him from practicing medicine ever again. There are still idiots who believe his nonsense, but they're the same idiots that believe 5G causes cancer.


So many lies in one post. Take them elsewhere.


You really think that the scientists who've been studying mosquitoes and their genome for literally decades don't know this, huh? Boy have I got some news for you.
I understand your points, and it's true to say that fraud on Midgleys scale would be hard.

To counter your argument I have seen examples of scientific failure in the 46 years I have been alive , PBa's forever chemicals, tobacco, some would argue the environment, philidermide the list goes on.

Meanwhile whenever a scientist breaks ground in this fashion we see little evidence of multi disciplinary science proving the efficacy of their statements, and many scientific papers are kept behind locked doors.

Not exactly transparent.
 
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There is an interesting observation that what we have manipulated by selection: 'better' potatoes/tomatoes/strawberries don't do very well in the wild, or we would see them there.
 

Space Lynx

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just read this... quite shocking. I almost wonder if in the future we will have no choice but to get rid of ticks. we can't spray everything with ever increasing potent pesticides forever...

I still don't fully understand the cycle of life that ticks provide, but if it ever becomes too lopsided and outbreaks like this can't be contained, my guess is science will have no choice but to eliminate them... could make for an interesting sci-fi book too... lol
 

eidairaman1

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Point is don't mess with the natural balance in the animal kingdom because it will bite us in the ass eventually. We have control measures for urban areas, just leave it at that.
 
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