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So what's the goal with all them mods? Why do you go in for it so much?

To me, it's just a bit a need for "vanilla +". Things that I looked at or somewhat sensed in the back of my mind during vanilla play and said "Y'know, using this or that could make this better." I actually don't transform the game much or alter textures very much.. and yet I still reach a plugin limit (Old Skyrim plugin limit is 252 esps or something). Also, some mods have multiple esps, so those tend to stack up.
 
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So what's the goal with all them mods? Why do you go in for it so much?
Better character building, adding objects from lore and fixing said retconned lore. AI that's actually competent in fighting and uses everything they have at you. Updated visuals that were lack-luster compared to games even released few years prior. Adding and augmenting existing game mechanics to add more variety. Skill system that makes more sense, for example training in one-handed also gives flat bonuses to two-handed. Content for early/mid/late game. And best of all alternate starts. What if? We weren't Dragonborn... and simply start as a companion while during quests with actual consequences.

There are so many things that I wanted the game to have from the start but it didn't, and that is why I couldn't enjoy it past the first time I played it. I can get best armor in the game without trying. It feels like I achieved nothing. The biggest problem I have with the vanilla game is the main quest. Within the first hours of the game you find out you are bad-ass dragon slaying Nord (canon?) that has the soul of a Dragon. You can avoid the main quest and do other things, but everyone constantly references the dragons and Dragonborn, that's all the game focuses on, apart from the civil war it's like nothing else really matters or has consequences.

Everything looked the same, I met the same people, I killed the same creatures, I did the same quests and I got the same unbalanced rewards with enemies that are sponges on higher difficulties. It just turns into a grindy unenjoyable game. I crave variety and that runs out pretty quick in the un-modded version.

Without the lore the game has nothing for it to be fair... And even that is being run into the ground for the power-fantasy. Good for those kinds people that like being a bad-ass with an immortal dragon soul all the time.

But what about the people that like actual role-playing? It doesn't have to be hardcore like some of the overhaul mods. But they didn't give us an option. There's little choice. For something that calls itself RPG Sandbox it was lack-luster and didn't live up to the hardcore audience, mainly the people who really enjoyed Morrowind and games in similar spirit.

I love the lore to bits, it's very interesting, but the current game director made the Skyrim and Fallout 4 do not have much in common with it's lore anymore...
Remove the Dragonborn and some other quests, and Skyrim becomes a cookie cutter RPG that might as well be named something else. Fallout 4, it's not a Fallout game, not by a long-shot. It caries the name but none of the spirit that made the first 3 main titles. It's a good game, but it's not Fallout.

Bethesda Game Studios lost almost all of what made it unique, due to ZeniMax, now they follow the footsteps of Ubisoft and EA. They'll probably find some way to mess up their new IP too. I lost all hope, when I found out the Creation Engine is same old ****.

I'm not saying game development is easy, but with the time and resources BGS has, they could can do much, much better.

What mods do is give you the tools to fill that sandbox and build something wonderful in it. And even re-shape it to your heart's desire. This is just a single example for one of their games. I can play Morrowind with using just a few mods and visual updates, that's it. It's just right as is. Skyrim always had a bunch of missed potential, and barely fleshed out game mechanics that had a lot to be desired. Your choices and achievements are a footnote. The game holds you by the hand and treats you like an infant. Shouts are just powers that is just an updated spell system from Oblivion that isn't useful anymore past a certain point because they do not scale, the ridiculous cooldown amount makes most of the shouts useless, a lot of the "new" game mechanics came at the last minute from games that already had them, so they weren't anything "new". The list goes on, but the biggest travesty is the departure from roleplaying.

Mods are literally able to remedy that, it's a band-aid. But a very powerful one. I put blood, sweat and tears to try and get close to what I envisioned some of these games to be, but they never lived up to my expectations. They didn't even bother to re-add the cut content for the re-releases. Something that mods do.

I'm not playing full-price for an unfinished game. End of. That is why I bought them on sale, I vote with my wallet.

Developers just don't seem to listen, they say do, but they don't. Bethesda used to have their own forums where they took community feedback! That was a lot of inspiration for a lot of things including the lore itself for TES! I wonder what happened to that!?

Slightly unrelated but, Hell you could play the modded Lost in Nightmare chapters in RE5 PC port before the PC Gold Edition was ever released. It took Crapcom years to add something that we already had!

My whole motivation to modding is creating. It's much easier to simply destroy something or ignore it. No wonder there are a bunch of peed-off people (myself included) on forums ever since Internet was conceived.

TL;DR - Mods breath life into a corpse that developers parade around and saying it's the new and better experience. Not a lot is really new, everything else is recycled.

What a simple question, and a confusing answer. No regrets.
 
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You know what they say. Keep it simple-stupid. But I am obsessed with mods, when I compare the main game to a modded one
thou art not alone! mods can add a lot of things from a simple follower, better textures or new quest to a whole total conversion and that's what make Skyrim so alive ...

well the modders do better than the dev and publisher thus: MOD IT UNTIL IT CRASH! rinse and repeat. (for me it's a part of the game, to make it work )

and ... pfeh ... SE?
maxresdefault.jpg
between the 3 .... the clearly superior is the vanilla modded :laugh: (okay okay ... we can mod the "remaster" ... but well for now ... not all mods i like in Skyrim are ported to SE or working with SE, thus: inferior product.)

the only game i don't mod from Beth's is Doom (2016) since unlike the other ... that one is pretty much complete (how unusual for Beth's )
 
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thou art not alone! mods can add a lot of things from a simple follower, better textures or new quest to a whole total conversion and that's what make Skyrim so alive ...

well the modders do better than the dev and publisher thus: MOD IT UNTIL IT CRASH! rinse and repeat. (for me it's a part of the game, to make it work )

and ... pfeh ... SE?
View attachment 105308
between the 3 .... the clearly superior is the vanilla modded :laugh: (okay okay ... we can mod the "remaster" ... but well for now ... not all mods i like in Skyrim are ported to SE or working with SE, thus: inferior product.)

the only game i don't mod from Beth's is Doom (2016) since unlike the other ... that one is pretty much complete (how unusual for Beth's )
Skyrim LE is superior from mod availability stand-point, some of the major prerequisites that are SKSE plugins cannot be ported to SE because mod author did not provide any source code or gave permission to port it, it's worse when the author cannot understand English.

Graphically SE can look better than than modded LE, the problem is many of the great looking Reshade/ENB hybrid presets aren't available. And most of LE textures can be used on SE with no problems and meshes can be converted easily. I've done this with my own mega-merge and the pseudo-HDT havok physics work fine.

Performance wise, SE should run faster than LE on newer graphics cards. The engine manages to be more stable with the same fixes applied.

BGS had no hands with Doom (2016), it was the merged id software staff that did everything AFAIK, but it is funny that the publisher seemed to interfere little with the product. It's BGS sticking out their rear-end for the publisher arm of the company that made me give up on the TES and Fallout franchise, the only reason those games are replayable are mods, and I didn't hear it from them saying that it's what keeps those games still relevant today. I still prefer the original modded with D4D weapons on Brutal Doom. Plus there are millions of wads to play. I see no custom campaigns for Doom (2016).
 
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Graphically SE can look better than than modded LE,
muh ... well not in my opinion ... nor the previous pic i posted fully agree ;)
ah ... i can't help but think SE is what Beth's made stealing idea from what modders did with LE (luckily since i got SE for free i am not really complaining, but still ... )

if mod availability is what make LE superior then LE is superior :laugh:

Graphically SE can look better than than modded LE, the problem is many of the great looking Reshade/ENB hybrid presets aren't available. And most of LE textures can be used on SE with no problems
not thinking so either ... :)

Performance wise, SE should run faster than LE on newer graphics cards.
well i am fine at 60fps (well 59.5) 255 mods (14 mod pack preset tho :laugh: ) and a heavy ENB

BGS had no hands with Doom (2016), it was the merged id software staff that did everything AFAIK, but it is funny that the publisher seemed to interfere little with the product.
well, thus why it was complete :laugh:

I still prefer the original modded with D4D weapons on Brutal Doom. Plus there are millions of wads to play. I see no custom campaigns for Doom (2016).
well ... i meant 2016 because i wads'ed the hell out of DOOM, DOOM II and Final DOOM :roll:
 
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well i am fine at 60fps (well 59.5) 255 mods (14 mod pack preset tho :laugh: ) and a heavy ENB
ENB/Reshade combo running at 75 capped, some dips to below 60. I see you're running a 1070 too. The physics don't glitch out either, nor does the water. Too bad either of the games don't run like this out-of-the-box.

Did they ever manage to get rid of cell border load lag on LE? It caused micro-stutters that happen when new cells have to load. That just broke the camel's back and I went to SE.

Regardless I'm helping with the efforts to port stuff to SE while fixing the bugs left when the mod was abandoned. I see a lot of followers being ported, but one very ambitious mod won't make it... due to that mentioned SKSE plugin shortage, there's an SSE port but it's bugged and unstable and is on hold because the mod author is going rapid-fire on patches on the main LE page.
 
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I don't like ENBs or SE's looks lol. But I'll take SE for overall stability and less script lag and ability to run more script heavy mods at a time (that's what LE is really poor at).

SE only looks like shit because that oversaturated look became popular with ENB and some weather mods. They all equally suck. If I could just get LE's generally blue-ish/winter look with volumetric improvements and better shadows from SE, I'd be happy. That original look was perfect.. it's practically the same in most "winter heavy" media. I mean, you won't see a Game of Thrones episode with that shitty oversaturation. They'd be laughed at. But for some reason, in Skyrim mod-land, it's a plus to some people.

Even before ENBs became popular, it seemed the gamer community still didn't like it, and criticized Skyrim's dull palette. But it was purposeful.
 
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I don't like ENBs or SE's looks lol. But I'll take SE for overall stability and less script lag and ability to run more script heavy mods at a time (that's what LE is really poor at).

SE only looks like shit because that oversaturated look became popular with ENB and some weather mods. They all equally suck. If I could just get LE's generally blue-ish/winter look with volumetric improvements and better shadows from SE, I'd be happy. That original look was perfect.. it's practically the same in most "winter heavy" media. I mean, you won't see a Game of Thrones episode with that shitty oversaturation.
I mean it's possible to have that, ENB has near full control of lighting, and re-shade can help with the colors. It would just take a lot of time to get that aesthetic right. (Hehe aesthethicc)

I used to be in love with bloom and what-not in games, but now it looks like Vaseline smeared all over the screen. So when I played S.T.A.L.K.E.R again, it felt so natural.

The dull palette wouldn't be so bad if they didn't screw with the shadows and lighting, LE had some of the worst I had seen that time for that current console gen.
 
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I mean it's possible to have that, ENB has near full control of lighting, and re-shade can help with the colors. It would just take a lot of time to get that aesthetic right. (Hehe aesthethicc)

I've tried. I've used ENB on LE with only the most barebone settings and turned on only godrays and some other things and it still does funky things.. especially face textures render a bit differently.

I've tried making my own mods that migrated the old Skyrim colorspaces to SE's - and I can get the overall look of LE... but the fog and godrays are too intense with this setting. I probably need to adjust these too, but it's beyond my limits. edit: I can completely turn off godrays though.. but that's not the greatest option either.
 
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I've tried. I've used ENB on LE with only the most barebone settings and turned on only godrays and some other things and it still does funky things.. especially face textures render a bit differently.

I've tried making my own mods that migrated the old Skyrim colorspaces to SE's - and I can get the overall look of LE... but the fog and godrays are too intense with this setting. I probably need to adjust these too, but it's beyond my limits. edit: I can completely turn off godrays though.. but that's not the greatest option either.
Gameplay-wise nodoubt LE is still go-to for anyone. I will admit SE looks "off" even with a different paint-job (ENB/ReShade) it's still the same damn game no matter how you cut it.

4 of my favorite ENB presets are still LE only. They give the saturated fantasy look during days and in warmer climates, and desaturated bleak-ness at night and cold climates. Weather and time-of-day settings are a powerful thing.

I'm just wondering how well both versions will age as the next console gen comes around.
 
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Gameplay-wise nodoubt LE is still go-to for anyone. I will admit SE looks "off" even with a different paint-job (ENB/ReShade) it's still the same damn game no matter how you cut it.

I'm just wondering how well both versions will age as the next console gen comes around.

Like I said, I've decided to just live with SE.. because of the stability. I run a few script heavy things that are often persistent (Wet n Cold, Footprints, some gore stuff), along with more NPCs.. and then bring in script heavy combat mods (like DCO/Deadly Dragons ports), and it runs without a hitch. This is a bit laggy on LE.
 
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Like I said, I've decided to just live with SE.. because of the stability. I run a few script heavy things that are often persistent (Wet n Cold, Footprints, some gore stuff), along with add many more NPCs.. and then bring in script heavy combat mods (like DCO/Deadly Dragons ports), and it runs without a hitch. This is a bit laggy on LE.
You're not running into the newly discovered papyrusVM crash. Huuuuuh... Okay.

For me it's enough to run 1 heavily scripted combat follower with "phases" and spells that look like straight out of an anime (For testing purposes and remodeling for my mega-merge). Or just running the newer versions of XPMS. Because the stupid thing will apply weapon scaling scripts on every NPC in sight and crash the game. The newest version mentions something about fixing that, but I'm not willing to break something that actually works now.
 
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You're not running into the newly discovered papyrusVM crash. Huuuuuh... Okay.

What's that? I haven't played in awhile.. planned to. But never saw that before.
 
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What's that? I haven't played in awhile.. planned to. But never saw that before.
Guess those are pretty stable now, huh? I've been avoiding wet and cold/footprints like the plague since LE.
It's a crash that happens when the script thread just poops itself (Too much looping). Engine Fixes does nothing about it. And there silence about it from the mod author for now. I thought maybe the buffer could be extended or something to deal with the extra active script threads.

Since I know almost nothing about C++ or Visual Studio. I couldn't help in the endeavor other than provide memory dumps.
 
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Guess those are pretty stable now, huh? I've been avoiding wet and cold/footprints like the plague since LE.

Oh yeah, no probs so far. Although combining Frostfall and Wet n Cold seems to cause probs for some people (but I decided to use the Creation Club's survival.. which is actually pretty good imho). Footprints is especially revamped and not what it once was.

edit: Gonna blame Frostfall in that btw.. it hasn't seen an update in awhile.
 
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Anyway it's late and we're running the thread now. :D You guys had some good points and I appreciated the input.

Somehow it feels like the wounds are healing after Immersive Encounters have made a save unplayable (removing the mod helps). So I'm staying off-of playing Skyrim for a while. Even if it will take some catching up later.

I don't do wholesome, non-ragey posts like this. So don't get used to it. I'm trying to decide between Dark Souls III and Warhammer 40K: Dark Crusade to close-up the day. I think I need to pick the latter. (Xenos rule)
 

rtwjunkie

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So what's the goal with all them mods? Why do you go in for it so much?
I have the maximum number of mods allowed, alll perfectly harmonized to work perfectly.

What I get are several huge quest lines, a score of additional dungeons, several additional lands (one of the creators was so good Bethesda hired him), numerous towns, and expansions on the “cities.” I get enhanced trade and an actual working economy. I get vastly improved dialogue choices by player and NPC’s as well as better background conversations.

I get numerous additional NPC’s, and whether they are recruitable or not, they add a lot to a sparsely populated world.

I get the single most intelligent and unique NPC ever made (Inigo). His AI is phenomenal and has been programmed for nearly anything the Player does and object he carries or owns. He comments on locations, and has been programmed to hold complete Independant conversations with numerous other npc’s, some of whom come with the game. He feels 100 times more real than anything Beth made.

I get real ecosystems of flora and fauna the behaves more realistically. I get a huge expansion on the companions guild, which was begging for an expanded and deeper quest line. I get expansions on weapons and armor and a vastly more immersive smithing mod. Things like a simple cowherd and his cows by a river go a long way to make it more.

Pretty much this is just the tip of the iceberg, but should give you an idea what I get out of mods.

Yes, I always play every Bethesda game without mods the first time. Those that are intensely moddable such as the Fallout series and TES series are seriously lacking, and I then find mods after to fill in what I feel is missing.
 
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AsRock

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FordGT90Concept

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Agreed, FO4's gunplay is pretty sweet it felt more natural, but even then I'd have awkward moments when aiming, but once you get used to it.
A lot of times I used VATS, enemy was right next to me in Fallout 4. Weirdness ensues. :roll:
 
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I don't really play it as a typical shooter. My main character is the female.. made her a "lawyer" (like her canon career). I have a different theme for every Fallout (sci-fi/cowboy/etc).
 
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being a fan of Shin Megami Tensei series ... (anime/game/manga, Devil summoner/Persona/Devil Survivor/classic) i guess i was waiting for one like that one ...

a true SMT game on mobile (f2p with micro transaction but ... well i did play "SMT:Imagine Online" before, so it's not a biggie :laugh: )
Dx2, good thing it does give you the option, on start screen, to download the full data set (after a benchmark determining the settings for you phone )
Screenshot_20180814-090116.pngScreenshot_20180814-090015.png

got surprised by the game's main theme and opening video (a true SMT indeed )
and the OST is just as awesome ...

gameplay wise it's quite nice, graphically not bad at all
Screenshot_20180814-094159.png

and... well uh? someone is not quite right in the head (well ... who is? no one is normal everyone is weird :laugh: )
Screenshot_20180814-094823.png
 

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But what about the people that like actual role-playing? It doesn't have to be hardcore like some of the overhaul mods. But they didn't give us an option. There's little choice. For something that calls itself RPG Sandbox it was lack-luster and didn't live up to the hardcore audience, mainly the people who really enjoyed Morrowind and games in similar spirit.
....
Gotta +1 this. They should call most of these "Fantasy Games", not RPGs. Too few of them actively encourage players actually immersing themselves in their character, and responding to the world as that character.
 
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Progress on my 4th playthrough for ME: Andromeda... Completed Eos (aka Habitat 1), though Viability is still at 76%. Now onto Onaon (that's how I spell it??), meeting with the Angarans.
 
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Gotta +1 this. They should call most of these "Fantasy Games", not RPGs. Too few of them actively encourage players actually immersing themselves in their character, and responding to the world as that character.

I think TES does that well actually.. even without having good dialogue choices. It allows roleplay through your reactions to the environment at least (and that environment is fairly dynamic and rarely scripted.. at least in relation to most games). But first the player needs to meet it halfway and simply decide who their character is.. and stay in that mode. Once you've gotten a feel for that, then you'll end up roleplaying automatically. If some crazy old woman comes running at you in the middle of the night, seemingly rambling nonsense.. If you're a good guy, you're going to roleplay through that and try to figure her out. If you're an asshole, you're going to chop her down. lol. There's no narrative handholding, but it's still pretty flexible about reflecting whatever psychology your character has.
 
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