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What are your opinions on PSUs with zero-rpm fan features?

stromtroeper

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I remember reading a Techpowerup review where the reviewer said he did not like those types of PSUs at all, I don't quite remember why...

My reason for the question is:
I have a low power GT1030 with a passive heatsink (I despise any type of fan noise). I bought a high end Corsair platinum PSU 750W that I know from reviews has zero-rpm fan below 400W power draw. So my system was operating noise free for 5 years until the PSU suddenly died.

I am wondering if it died because it operated without the aid of the cooling fan...(I checked and found not a spec of dust inside PSU)
However I sent it to Corsair for RMA and they sent me a new one within days (10 year warranty)

Thoughts?
 
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The fan is not only activated by power draw, but also temperature. I like zero rpm fan modes. And have not seen any failures I would attribute to this feature.

The previous faulty PSU I had was a DOA Corsair HX1000 where the fan had a clicking noise. So the zero rpm feature hid the problem for a couple weeks :banghead:
 
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You cannot conclusively prove your PSU failure was due to it being fanless. Even if you do proper PSU breakdown and find dead component(s), you can only suppose higher operating temperatures accelerated their demise, but again, this is unprovable (and personally I find it doubtful, especially if failure happened within warranty period, as I would expect engineers designing the PSU to spec for such period)

It's usually turned on by internal temperature. Typically, there is an NTC thermistor inside, which, when heated high enough, drops resistance low enough, so current passing allows the fan to start.

There is also some sort of thresholding for that typically, because at voltages close to startup fan might attempt but struggle to run, generating buzzing noise. I actually fanswapped my old LEPA G650-MAS due to this exact issue, and early fanless Corsairs suffered from this as well.

Now I use 2 such PSUs in my rigs: New Cooler Master V550 Gold V2 and old Tacens Valeo III 500 W, and haven't had issues since. Funny how this Tacens got fanless mode right in 2007-2008 before first fanless Corsairs lol.
 
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Years ago I bought a HX1200I. Corsair has aggressively been pulling their products into their software. I cannot run the fan on my PSU without using ICUE software. Without the software and fan control the PSU will go as high as 60 C. I am not a fan of zero RPM PSUs.
 
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Heat always builds up. It is not spread evenly.

Best of both worlds are hybrid fanless. My old fractal does it. It spins up like once an hour and then stops. PSU's usually doesn't have more than two temp probes, you cannot put them everywhere on each component.

The obvious problem is capacitor lifespan as their aging is also ambient temperature dependent(besides ripple). It takes only one cap near some hot element to make problems, like some additional voltages for logic, then a domino effect can occur due to instability taking out semiconductors.

So at the end of day it all depends. There are no problems with loads under ~150W. Laptop chargers do work fine, ain't it? Now with GaN the bar is higher. Doing more 200W passive is another topic. It is hard, I would not do it, especially not 400W. I have a feeling those designs still rely on some sort of case airflow. Maybe some super duper efficient designs past 95% efficiency but... 5% from 400W is still 20W, that's nothing to sneeze at.

It is all good when the load is high and dynamic, the PC triggers high loads and the fan spins up. The problem is with those PC's not hitting the ceiling and the heat always builds up, so it is debatable and depends on ambient temps, case airflow etc.
 
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I haven't noticed any problems, but over time the fan-less function turned off sooner even at very low loads like browsing and became very noisy at that on my gold 450 220v, although being more efficient. This is useful for prolonging the fan life as well as comfort so i see no reason to avoid it. Note that never happened to replicate the exact activation point, it was much lower than review data taken at 110v to begin with. So it must be temperature sensing all the time. Especially with the 1030 in no way could it overheat unless you live on the equator or on the beach in bad humidity levels.
 

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Heat always builds up. It is not spread evenly.

Best of both worlds are hybrid fanless. My old fractal does it. It spins up like once an hour and then stops. PSU's usually doesn't have more than two temp probes, you cannot put them everywhere on each component.

The obvious problem is capacitor lifespan as their aging is also ambient temperature dependent(besides ripple). It takes only one cap near some hot element to make problems, like some additional voltages for logic, then a domino effect can occur due to instability taking out semiconductors.

So at the end of day it all depends. There are no problems with loads under ~150W. Laptop chargers do work fine, ain't it? Now with GaN the bar is higher. Doing more 200W passive is another topic. It is hard, I would not do it, especially not 400W. I have a feeling those designs still rely on some sort of case airflow. Maybe some super duper efficient designs past 95% efficiency but... 5% from 400W is still 20W, that's nothing to sneeze at.

It is all good when the load is high and dynamic, the PC triggers high loads and the fan spins up. The problem is with those PC's not hitting the ceiling and the heat always builds up, so it is debatable and depends on ambient temps, case airflow etc.
Remember that laptop PSUs are enclosed, whereas desktop PSUs are much, much larger, and have venting, allowing for natural convection cooling, as heat rises.

Seasonic has a 700W fanless unit, that performs amongst the best ever tested in review, and temperatures aren't an issue.
 
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I like those Hydro series with immersion "liquid" cooling :laugh:
 

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I love zero RPM, nice and quiet. I like a quiet PC like you do.

I recently went all-out and bought the Corsair AX1600i, because it's such a fabulous PSU and has a zero RPM fan. And yes, that power output is complete overkill...
 
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I live in a hot climate area, so I generally disable zero RPM modes. Silent and powerful is great, but you need to balance noise output, performance and reliability. Having the latter two without noise is possible, but cost and complexity tends to increase exponentially depending on where you operate the system.

Years ago I bought a HX1200I. Corsair has aggressively been pulling their products into their software. I cannot run the fan on my PSU without using ICUE software. Without the software and fan control the PSU will go as high as 60 C. I am not a fan of zero RPM PSUs.

I owned an HX1200i, sold it a while ago. I dislike iCUE too, but with this model you should still be able to download and use Corsair Link 4. TechSpot still has it mirrored in their download section:

 

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I think it's better to have a very slow fan at the very least so there is some air movement.

EDIT: This is to protect things like capacitors, for example a video card were you could have a bunch of caps near a VRM or other close to it running temps 35-50c and not considered hot but the hotter they are the less life span they have.
 

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I live in a hot climate area, so I generally disable zero RPM modes. Silent and powerful is great, but you need to balance noise output, performance and reliability. Having the latter two without noise is possible, but cost and complexity tends to increase exponentially depending on where you operate the system.
I'll second this.

My new AX1600i that isn't being stressed at all with the PC sitting on the desktop and the fan off, nevertheless still feels quite warm to the touch, despite its super high efficiency.

If I was in warm climate like yours, I'd probably want the fan running all the time too.
 

dgianstefani

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Warm to the touch means the PSU is doing it's job of radiating heat away from the components.

Same issue people have with the PS5 exhaust, AM5 CPUs and 5800X3D - they all report high exhaust temps, but this is good, as it means the heat is being efficiently removed. The issue is how much power draw those CPUs use, not the heat of the exhaust. With PSU's it's efficiency - you can easily determine how much electricity is being converted to heat, and then work out if that's reasonable to dissipate without active airflow.

Remember the PSU will shut itself down in OTP, and i know there's only a couple of temperature sensors, but I strongly doubt that the majority of high quality PSUs that have zero fan modes are suffering much product life degradation as a result of no active airflow. Either the fan kicks in at a wattage level, or the PSU heats up past it's ability to ambiently radiate heat, and the fan kicks in.
 
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as heat rises.

From where and how, you can put in many ways... also you can stuck it in a small SFF case with almost no ventilation and ambient inside over 60C and GPU always spits heat on the PSU, if we put all this case in some southern hot area the completely passive mode may not be the best scenario, the hotspot temperature deviation is in double digits inside the PSU, so the real result varies a lot. It would not matter in short term, but after 5-10 years some signs should show. Completely passive designs are rare for a reason. Even if some people abuse the design, then warranty comes in place, for most it should work. If you think for long term hassle free investment - simply don't do passive, if you plan to replace/sell it after 4-6 years - don't care.

As usual... there is no Wattage... it is power level measured in Watts, don't be like them.
 
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Thoughts?
I prefer the fan on with semi-fanless models as running cooler with less high-low thermal cycling variation is better for the capacitors longer term, plus the fan speeds are much lower / quieter than they used to be (and I was a regular on SilentPCReview for years, so I'm picky about fan noise too). I doubt that a 30w GT1030 would have done anything though. Your PSU death could just be one of those things. Having said that, fanless / semi-fanless PSU's are why I hate stupid PSU shrouds. Many such PSU's state 'face them upward' if you're running without a fan (heat vented back into case is pretty negligible but at least it will vent out of the PSU instead of being trapped at the upside-down "bottom" of a downward-facing PSU), yet the PSU shroud in modern pretentious art pieces 'cases' then acts like the world's dumbest insulation...
 
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Bottom line is that heat & computer parts are sworn enemies, and have been since the dawn of the electronic age in the 30's....so either chill it or kill it !

"warm to the touch" is way too hot IMHO, so I will gladly tolerate a little touch of fan noise in favor of my 'puters dying an early death & having to be replaced prematurely...
 

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My old Seasonic FX750 is semi-passive and I had nothing to complain. Still a working unit, I just moved it to my 2nd rig though and to be honest, the system is loud enough so I can't hear any difference anymore that is the fan on or off.
 
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every one of my PSUs is 0 rpm untill a load of 50% or so ive a Seasonic gx750, gx850 and corsair RM850i and why i like them apart from Quiet is i dont have to clean them out every 12 months.
 
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I would think there's a better chance of running zero rpm fan speed if you buy a very high output PSU. I use a 1200w PSU & the fan only seems to come in the hot summer months where ambient temperature is a lot higher.
 
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Not all components on a PSU are thermally monitored. So I rather have a fan spinning at the lowest speed all the time.

I also think start/stop puts more stress on the fan motor. :cool: Roast me.
 
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I despise any type of fan noise
Not as much as me!!! ;) My first love in electronics was audiophile quality audio reproduction (repairing and listening). Record pops and tape hiss were bad enough but fan noise on top of that? No way! Totally unacceptable.
I live in a hot climate area, so I generally disable zero RPM modes.
This really makes no sense to me.

Assuming one does their homework and buys a quality PSU from a quality maker, why not believe the designers know what they are doing?

We are not talking about a totally passive (no fan) PSU as are often used in HTPCs to achieve total silence (at least from the PSU). There is still a fan in these PSUs. And they don't kick in based only on power/current draw. Those fans also spin up (and/or spin faster) when they crossover preset thermal thresholds too. I see no reason not to assume the engineers and designers have set those trigger thresholds at points that will protect the PSUs. Surely they want their products to last at least through the warranty periods.

Now if we are talking about a cheap fan from some generic, no-name maker, all bets are off. But why buy such a PSU in the first place? The PSU is arguably the most important electronic component in our systems since EVERYTHING inside the computer case depends on good, clean, stable power.

I am wondering if it died because it operated without the aid of the cooling fan.
Nah! It died because the stars were aligned against you. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be units that fail prematurely.

I checked and found not a spec of dust inside PSU
But that really does not tell us anything because we know nothing about the computer case this PSU was mounted in. Nor do we know anything about the environment of the room the computer was operated in.

Is it a quality computer case with decent air filters? Is case cooling properly set up with a slight over (positive) pressure to ensure incoming air is only coming through filters (if there are filters)? Is the room climate controlled (through a HVAC filter) or are windows left open much of the year? Do you live in a dusty desert, or lush jungle? Are there rugrats and pets shedding dander and running around stirring up dust?

As noted in my signature, "Heat is the bane of all electronics!" And that certainly is true. But that, in no way, means "all" heat is evil or damaging and must be avoided at all costs. In fact, electronics in general, works best (in terms or stability, performance, and longevity) when operating comfortably within a designated operating range. This is why in extremely cold environment (satellites in space and arctic locations as examples) heaters are used, when necessary, to boost the operating environment temperature.

Also, different components have very different heat tolerance abilities. Power supplies, in general, generate a significant amount of heat. For that reason, the components selected to build those supplies have been selected because they are able to tolerate those expected heat levels.

So while it is critically important to ensure our electronics are never exposed to excessive heat, it is not necessary to get it as cold as possible. There is no reason, for example, to expect a CPU to be more stable, perform better, or last longer if maintained the majority of the time at 20°C instead of 50°C. Now if it spends most of its time up around 90°C and it has a maximum T-junction spec of 100°, that CPU is likely to fail prematurely. Hence the phrase "comfortably within" above.

Are there exceptions to everything I just said? Of course. But exceptions don't make the rule.
 
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Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W, semi-passive mode from day 1, can't even tell if/when the fan is kicking in. No problems for 3 years, knock on wood.
 
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My Phanteks (Seasonic) has this feature, I turned it off so the fan is always running.
Basically the fan is so silent anyway at the low speeds it’s running at, I may as well let it run and let the components stay as cool as possible.
 
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As long as the PSU is good quality, I don't think premature failure would be high up on the list of potential concerns.

FWIW, anecdotally I haven't had any laptop brick style PSUs fail on me, and those are 100% passive. I have a 10+ year old one powering an old Sandy Bridge laptop, a 6+ year old one powering my SFF work PC, and a few other ones whose ages I can't remember off the top of my head.
 
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