What are your opinions on PSUs with zero-rpm fan features?

[Ganakas]

Remember that laptop PSUs are enclosed, whereas desktop PSUs are much, much larger, and have venting, allowing for natural convection cooling, as heat rises.

Seasonic has a 700W fanless unit, that performs amongst the best ever tested in review, and temperatures aren't an issue.

Depends on what you consider temperatures not being an issue lets say someone doesn't have that seasonic. I have a corsair hx 1200i , as another poster mentioned without software the fan will not spin. Even my initial setup with the power supply (2700 non x / 1660TI ) it was getting as hot or hotter than the 1660 Ti... I mod cases each time i build a new system in a new case anyway which I tend to keep PSU's and cases the longest of all components. Anyway I finally moved the powersupply out of my system as I refuse to use corsairs software which bugs out various OSD's and certain games I play.

Avg temp on 1660 TI dropped by 8c (thats alot in Fahrenheit) While the increase in temps of the PSU may not harm the PSU or "be an issue" FOR the psu....that heat isn't magically transfered ..it bleeds into the surrounding components. When i was messing with the 5700 and 5700xt I woulda hated to see the temps on those two cards as they ran much hotter for not much hotter. The 3600x and now 3800xt (soon likely 5800x + 6800xt) no doubt would suffer from the psu just sweating heat out into the case.

A simple toggle like the backup bios 3d cards have now and mobo's have had since well my gigabyte board in 2002 had a bios switch... For the fan on these psu's would be prefered vs forcing software usage or acceptance of heat hampering other components in the system.

I have had 3 diff ram kids across the 3 processors (all same motherboard) and I can tell u tho ram isn't that sensitive to heat ... it doesn't help and the initial hynix kit i had went from locked at slightly better than its 3200 c16 xmp profile to right before replacing it 3600 c14 on that 2700 and a short period on the 3600x. after PSU being removed from the equation.


So temps not being an issue is subjective

 

[Iain Saturn]

Does it even matter? Seasonic (and other brands) fans are not audible anyway even under heavy load.

Strange.

I love silent systems myself but a quality power supply using a fan or fan less or zero rpm makes no difference.

 

[Zach_01]

Why would I want the PSU fan to spin under these conditions and dust the inside?

The following was screenshot with 30sec deference

iCue

HWiNFO64

 

[Shrek]

I bought a high end Corsair platinum PSU 750W that I know from reviews has zero-rpm fan below 400W power draw. So my system was operating noise free for 5 years until the PSU suddenly died.

Isn't it still under warrantee?

 

[Zach_01]

Here is after some gaming 90min.

GPU capped at 62FPS (monitor 60Hz)

The 524rpm is the minimum speed of PSU fan. Meaning that it was turned on occasionally and briefly as the 123rpm (avg) indicates. Usually fan spins after 400~420W (output).

 

[evernessince]

A properly designed fanless mode is without a doubt superior. It reduces noise and extends the life of the fan with no downside.

If a part of the PSU is getting too hot while in fanless operation, that's poor design.

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Does it even matter? Seasonic (and other brands) fans are not audible anyway even under heavy load.

Strange.

I love silent systems myself but a quality power supply using a fan or fan less or zero rpm makes no difference.

Perhaps if you live in very noisy environment, have loud rest of PC, use headphones, or have, respectfully, impaired hearing.

I have no problem hearing most PSU fans at idle. Only ones I truly consider inaudible are high quality FDB/magnetic bearing fans spinning at up to 600 rpm or so (e.g., be-quiet! or some Enermax fans). In fact, I have to enable fanless mode on my V550 Gold, because otherwise it stands out over rest of the PC even at idle lmao.

 

[Andrea87]

I like power supplies with low power fanless options, when they are built correctly. The one I'm running now has this feature (Seasonic Platinum 660w) and I'm happily using it. With high efficiency designs (platinum and above) like this, even at low power loads (20%, 130W) you'll get 92% efficiency. The little amount of passive airflow the psu gets from the pc itself is more than enough to dissipate the few watts of heat it makes. Also the fan is temperature-controlled, so if the psu heats up it would start doing its job. Modern designs with LLC resonant primary converters, active rectification on the 12v secondary plus syncronous conversion for the low voltages lines do strongly reduce most of the losses we had in less "advanced" power supplies in the past.

 

[Iain Saturn]

The ones I truly consider inaudible are high quality FDB/magnetic bearing fans spinning at up to 600 rpm or so (e.g., be-quiet! or some Enermax fans).

Correct. As well as FSP, Seasonic and some from Fractal.

So the original poster should just get those and there is no need to worry for 10+ years.

Done.

 

[AleXXX666]

The fan is not only activated by power draw, but also temperature. I like zero rpm fan modes. And have not seen any failures I would attribute to this feature.

The previous faulty PSU I had was a DOA Corsair HX1000 where the fan had a clicking noise. So the zero rpm feature hid the problem for a couple weeks

same, FIRST NEGATIVE EXPERIENCE with SEASONIC and even PRIME!!! I bought 750w gold seasonic prime, and the fan was crackling a little, it could be heard only in dead silence! but I have very sensitive ears for low noises, even I'm not a musician or audiophile lol
but I needed the PC and couldn't afford buying some "replacement" for the time of warranty issues so I just sold the PSU out and got new, Seasonic Focus GM650w Gold, and this is not "premium" prime line-up but it has zero issues with fan as I expect from EVERY seasonic psu as I've had them for years!!
btw, seasonic has kindda troubles sometimes with this zero-fan feature. and it was again with my 750w prime gold lol! when the button is pressed it should have zero-fan on but it has a bug and worked vice-versa, and in my life i haven't seen any seasonic fan damage because of wear and tear so i don't care lol
but now I know they have started to produce cheap cr*p models with cheaper and worse fans so I just try to avoid such a "surprise" models from a reputable (for me) company!

 

[Athlonite]

I've just bought an EVGA 1000w PSU and the first thing I did was turn off the zero rpm fan feature as it's not noisy at all when idle or with medium loads and even at full noise it makes less noise than the 180mm fans in the bottom of my RV02 case so I never hear it anyways

 

[INSTG8R]

My Seasonic has it and so did my previous one. I personally don't use any kind of "Zero Fan" options. I don't use it on my GPU either, I mean I can't measure my PSUs fan speed but my GPU with Zero Fan disabled runs at like 7-800rpm so virtually silent, I don't think I have EVER heard my PSU fan over any of my case fans, so yeah I wouldn't turn it off either.

 

[Dr. Dro]

This really makes no sense to me.

Assuming one does their homework and buys a quality PSU from a quality maker, why not believe the designers know what they are doing?

We are not talking about a totally passive (no fan) PSU as are often used in HTPCs to achieve total silence (at least from the PSU). There is still a fan in these PSUs. And they don't kick in based only on power/current draw. Those fans also spin up (and/or spin faster) when they crossover preset thermal thresholds too. I see no reason not to assume the engineers and designers have set those trigger thresholds at points that will protect the PSUs. Surely they want their products to last at least through the warranty periods.

Now if we are talking about a cheap fan from some generic, no-name maker, all bets are off. But why buy such a PSU in the first place? The PSU is arguably the most important electronic component in our systems since EVERYTHING inside the computer case depends on good, clean, stable power.

I don't disagree on principle, but it gives me some peace of mind knowing at at least some meaningful degree of air movement and heat exchange is occurring.

Ambient temperatures around and north of 100F/37C are not uncommon during summer here and I don't have an air conditioning system at all, so all cooling for these high TDP parts of mine is done the old fashioned way. And, of course, I have a very large and very high capacity unit that is already an older design (EVGA 1300 G2, which is basically a rebrand of the 1st generation Super Flower Leadex, both reviewed by Aris here at TPU), so it's really an abundance of caution rather than a hard requirement.

 

[maxfly]

I always turn off zero fan anything on everything. I would rather exhaust any excess heat vs trap it. Heat and I, we don't get along very well hehe.
I've got this weird habit of researching the sheeit out of any gear that may potentially make noise in my rig. Pair that with a need to have great power supplies and that equates to never having heard the fans in any of my PSUs in my silent rigs. I have these nifty critters, their called filters on all of my intakes...yep that includes the psu. Keeps that sucker clean as a whistle with little more than a quick vac a month.

 

[Shrek]

I don't mind fan noise so long as it is steady and not too loud; noticeable variations can be very disturbing. A fan should ramp up and down slowly.

 

[Bill_Bright]

it gives me some peace of mind knowing at at least some meaningful degree of air movement and heat exchange is occurring.

That's exactly right!

I always turn off zero fan anything on everything. I would rather exhaust any excess heat vs trap it.

"Trap it"? No one is trapping the heat. That would be a pretty lousy design if heat was being trapped inside a PSU case, then held stagnant there by zero air movement within the PC case. And if that was the scenario, the builder/assembler did a lousy job of selecting components and configuring their case cooling.

Also, and once again, if there was any "excess" heat, the fan would kick in and move it out - not trap it.

It should be pointed out most quality PSU cases are also full of holes - ventilation holes. Holes that allow much of the heat to escape out of the PSU and into the computer case where [hopefully] properly configured case cooling will move that heated air out the exhaust vents. Those holes also allow cool air to come in to replace the warm air that escaped. Even the metal of the PSU case itself acts as a heatsink where air flow from the case cooling can help extract some of the heat.

Plus, any quality PC PSU - especially if designed for no or limited fan operation - will have more than adequate heatsinks attached to the more heat-sensitive components. This will help cool the PSU even if mounted up top (which is becoming less and less common these days).

Heat and I, we don't get along very well hehe.

And that's great to take controlling heat seriously but preventing excessive heat can be done easily without being excessive (or obsessive) in that control.

Do you power all your case fans directly from the PSU so they always spin at full speed? Or do you disable case/system speed control in the BIOS Setup Menu? I bet not.

Speaking to the crowd - I am not buying the excuse that disabling the zero fan option is justified because the fan is near-silent anyway. Even a fan of the highest possible quality is still subject to wear and tear on the bearings. Why put wear on the bearings when unnecessary?

It always amazes me how - almost exclusively with computer hardware and software - some users assume the formally educated electrical, computer, and thermal engineers, designers, manufacturers, and software developers don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. I don't see this in any other industry - only computers.

Many if not most cars these days have electric fans for their radiators that start spinning only when needed. Do users disable that "zero fan" feature? Many big screen TVs have internal fans that cycle on and off as needed. Are those "zero fan" features disabled? Many A/V amplifiers and receivers have cooling fans that cycle on and off as needed. Are they disabled? But put a computer in front of these folks and instantly they dink with the BIOS defaults, OS defaults, and now PSU defaults too. Even though they have zero formal training in any of these areas. It really makes no sense.

noticeable variations can be very disturbing. A fan should ramp up and down slowly.

I totally agree that variations can be disturbing. I wake up in the middle of the night during a power outage because suddenly the house became silent! “The silence is deafening!"

However, a CPU or GPU, for example, can go from cool to over-heated in just a few clock cycles. And with 3 billion+ cycles every second, cooling demands can go from zero to extreme in an instant too. So IMO, a spinning fan can decelerate slowly to avoid attracting my attention, but they should be able to ramp up to full speed very quickly.

 

[Zach_01]

I like my zero rpm feature for X570 chipset, GPU and PSU.

Practically anything around the 15-20W and below does not need active cooling as long as a heat sink is on top of it. And some times doesn’t even need a heatsink at all.

If I disable all of the above zero rpm features it will not make my system any louder. I’m not keeping it stopped for noise.
It’s about unnecessary function (wear) and dust into the system/components.

My entire GPU card consumes less that 20W peak, outside gaming and it got a 1.5Kg heat sink on it. There is no need for fan for anything but gaming or computing. On some light games with capped FPS (60) fans do not start at all and temp is below 60C, s

PSU runs cool enough at 100-150W output (10-15W of heat).
Chipset is cooled be a 120mm case fan I have under GPU at under 1000rpm.
This fan helps with GPU, chipset and second NVMe drive I have under GPU.

Imagine for example how often a GPU would need cleaning if the fans where operating 6-10+ hours a day instead of 1-2 hours by avg for gaming. Sometimes even less.

My PSU is 4+ years old and the inside is almost new, dust wise.
GPU is almost 3 years old and cleaned 2 times so far without any significant amount of dust in it.
Why would I want fans working at all times if not necessary?

For many years now I use daily monitoring tools for temperatures and other, and this gave me the knowledge and the mind to not overthink the zero rpm feature on most of components.

Know your system.

 

[Shrek]

However, a CPU or GPU, for example, can go from cool to over-heated in just a few clock cycles. And with 3 billion+ cycles every second, cooling demands can go from zero to extreme in an instant too. So IMO, a spinning fan can decelerate slowly to avoid attracting my attention, but they should be able to ramp up to full speed very quickly.

How so?

Let's take a 200g block of aluminum and heat it by say 20°C, that takes 3600J; so even if the CPU/GPU were pumping say 200W, that would take 18 seconds with no cooling at all.

 

[Lei]

I totally agree that variations can be disturbing. I wake up in the middle of the night during a power outage because suddenly the house became silent! “The silence is deafening!"

Even sunset can't wake me up.

How so?

Let's take a 200g block of aluminum and heat it by say 20°C, that takes 3600J; so even if the CPU/GPU were pumping say 200W, that would take 18 seconds with no cooling at all.

CPU goes from 30° (a bit above ambient) to 80° in a couple of seconds.
Why 200 grams? A cpu die is not that heavy.

The heatsink being aluminium, does that mean cpu and heatsink have the same temp?
Take specific heat of silicon = 0.71

About weight for silicon = 2.33g/cm
Die size: silicon wafer thickness is 775 µm , for DRAM it is 50 µm
Let's say die size is 3x3 cm
Volume =0.69 cubic cm

Weight = 2.33x0.69 = 1.39

I'm sorry, it is less than 2 grams.

How many joules to heat up 2 grams of silicon 80 degrees = 0.71x2x80 = 113

Well 113 watts can provide that heat in one second.
Notice : I bumped up the thickness to 1 mm (1000µm) and die size is probably less than 3x3cm

Nope, I kept the die thickness 775 µm. For 1 millimeter, final watt per second (joule) is ... Opps, I said 1.39 is ~2grams. So still I bumped up the weight (thickness) for you. Final answer is 119 watts with so much favor to your side. Ok, now let's say it's 2mm thick die. 238 watt for that. And we shouldn't say 80° raise in temp. We're already 30° and we want to stay under 90. So it's 178 watts to raise 4.19 grams of silicon 60° in one second.

 

[Shrek]

True, if you run the CPU/GPU without a heatsink, you will be in trouble in around one second.

 

[damric]

I always disable that zero-rpm feature.

 

[Tomgang]

My phanteks Revolt x 1200 psu has a switch so I can run the fan either constantly or in 0 rpm mode. It is manufactured by seasonic and as far I remember. Seasonic psu have a switch on there psu. Maybe not on the cheapest psu.

So here is what I do. In the fall/winter or low load it runs 0 rpm mode. Spring/summer or high load, it runs in fan running mode. More simple can the solution not be for me I think. So basically, I have the best og bofh things.

 

[maxfly]

That's exactly right!


"Trap it"? No one is trapping the heat. That would be a pretty lousy design if heat was being trapped inside a PSU case, then held stagnant there by zero air movement within the PC case. And if that was the scenario, the builder/assembler did a lousy job of selecting components and configuring their case cooling.

Also, and once again, if there was any "excess" heat, the fan would kick in and move it out - not trap it.

It should be pointed out most quality PSU cases are also full of holes - ventilation holes. Holes that allow much of the heat to escape out of the PSU and into the computer case where [hopefully] properly configured case cooling will move that heated air out the exhaust vents. Those holes also allow cool air to come in to replace the warm air that escaped. Even the metal of the PSU case itself acts as a heatsink where air flow from the case cooling can help extract some of the heat.

Plus, any quality PC PSU - especially if designed for no or limited fan operation - will have more than adequate heatsinks attached to the more heat-sensitive components. This will help cool the PSU even if mounted up top (which is becoming less and less common these days).


And that's great to take controlling heat seriously but preventing excessive heat can be done easily without being excessive (or obsessive) in that control.

Do you power all your case fans directly from the PSU so they always spin at full speed? Or do you disable case/system speed control in the BIOS Setup Menu? I bet not.

Speaking to the crowd - I am not buying the excuse that disabling the zero fan option is justified because the fan is near-silent anyway. Even a fan of the highest possible quality is still subject to wear and tear on the bearings. Why put wear on the bearings when unnecessary?

It always amazes me how - almost exclusively with computer hardware and software - some users assume the formally educated electrical, computer, and thermal engineers, designers, manufacturers, and software developers don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. I don't see this in any other industry - only computers.

Many if not most cars these days have electric fans for their radiators that start spinning only when needed. Do users disable that "zero fan" feature? Many big screen TVs have internal fans that cycle on and off as needed. Are those "zero fan" features disabled? Many A/V amplifiers and receivers have cooling fans that cycle on and off as needed. Are they disabled? But put a computer in front of these folks and instantly they dink with the BIOS defaults, OS defaults, and now PSU defaults too. Even though they have zero formal training in any of these areas. It really makes no sense.


I totally agree that variations can be disturbing. I wake up in the middle of the night during a power outage because suddenly the house became silent! “The silence is deafening!"

However, a CPU or GPU, for example, can go from cool to over-heated in just a few clock cycles. And with 3 billion+ cycles every second, cooling demands can go from zero to extreme in an instant too. So IMO, a spinning fan can decelerate slowly to avoid attracting my attention, but they should be able to ramp up to full speed very quickly.

Bill and his walls of text, sigh. Summarize man, summarize!

Yes Bill, I said trap it. You read it, and then even managed to "quote" me correctly. Attaboy
That's cute. The fact that you wrote a wall of text to share your opinion with me as to why zero fan psu operation is the shizz...for Bill. Guess what Bill? Max don't care. You do you baby.
Bill not having an issue with excess heat(gasp, he said excess heat!) being slowly vented back into his case is his thing. What it isn't, is my thing. You see Bill, if I'm running my PSU fan at 30% and said heat is being immediately exhausted out of my case, poof there goes that unnecessary excess. Funny how that works. Fan on, heat gone. Whereas in Bills zero fan world, there's only one place for that heat to go (until the temp thresh hold has been met of course, don't forget to mention that or yes you guessed it! Wall-o-text hahaha). If you're cool with that by all means, have at it. The argument your trying to make is that it wears out your poor delicate little fans! That are likely rated for a gazillion mtbf btw. My PSUs come with either a 12 or 10 year warranty. So yeah, I ain't scurred.

But that's neither here nor there. That's not the point is it oh Billyboy? The point is, was and has been. I have a lil switch on the back of my PSU that lets me "choose". Sayyy what?!?! Yes me boyoo, I "choose" to run my gear the way I like it. All nice and cool like. WOW!

And as an aside...
Power supplies are engineered specifically to be used with a fan by formally educated electrical, computer, and thermal engineers, designers, manufacturers, and software developers. Huh? What? Whodathunk? Blowin minds, it's what I does. Hahaha!

Sorry Bill but your case fan question makes no sense.

Cmon Bill. Even I lose interest once someone does the lame ass car analogy thing.

 

[freeagent]

My Prime gold GX-750 shuts down so hard I have to flip the switch when running F@H on my CPU and GPU. My EVGA doesn't do that

But the 0 fan feature works great on the Prime The EVGA does not have it.

 

[TheUn4seen]

Right now I use a Corsair RM750. It is probably close to being 10 years old and it's fan kicks in so rarely, the last time I remember hearing it was when I used it in a dual 3080 miner. Sometimes it turns on after several hours of playing Eve Online, but for no more than a minute, probably due to slow heat build up. I deeply dislike fan noise, so I wouldn't buy a non semi-passive power supply.
The only PSU to blow up on me was a very expensive BeQuiet (actually was fairly loud) unit which exploded and left a black mark on my wall - it was a long time ago, but it did so while idle and with not very demanding hardware.