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What is killing my fans?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by silkstone, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Something is killing my fans!.

    Ok, so i just got a replacement fan for my CM v8 and it died within 5 minutes of installing it.

    This is the 3rd fan that I have put in my V8 and has died. I don't know exactly when they died as I probably didn;t notice straight away, but I have been through 3 fans in 2 months!

    What could be killing my fans?


    I installed a Cougar Vortex in my V8 and connected it to the fan header on the mobo.
    I booted up the system and check the fan was working. It reported it spinning at 1800 rpm or so.

    I went to overclock and re-booted my computer. loaded up windows and then notice the fan is not spinning. I shut down, open up the case. boot up and take a look at the fan and i see it is flicking a little bit but not spinning.

    So I took it out and notice that the motor is warm. I tested it on other fan headers and in my fan controller and it does not work now. It's dead.

    When i installed it in the V8, I did not screw it into the front screw holes and had it just fixed in the bracket. I cannot see a way where it would come in contact with anything inside the V8. The metal bracket with the screwholes would stop the front spinning part from ever coming in contact with the fins of the heatsink.

    Could it be the motherboard that is killing my fans? I just spent $17 on this fan less than 1/2 an hr ago and am royally pee'd off.

    Before I test another fan, and potentially kill that too, i'd like to get an idea as to what could be killing them.

    Anyone have any ideas?
     
  2. d1nky

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    check the mobo for any damage. check psu connections. check everything!

    im sure a whole lot more voltage than the 12v would be needed to kill em off that quick, maybe the voltage controller for fan 3pin or pwm is messed up.

    if its the 3pin select the lowest rpm settings you can, and test another fan.

    is it just the same header or all headers? 3pin or 4pin?
     
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  3. theoneandonlymrk

    theoneandonlymrk

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    Maybe the mobo header is putting out too much volts do you have a meter to check it.
     
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  4. McSteel

    McSteel

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    I've connected 12V fans to a 15V source before, and they still work, even though they were overvolted and sped up beyond spec. I don't think it's a voltage problem, per se. It may be possible that somehow your tacho (3rd) pin is pushing out 12V for some reason (short, controller error, gremlins ...) and since this should be a sense pin, presence of voltage there could be damaging the pacing transistor in the motor control assembly...

    This is the first time I've heard of such a thing, though, so I could be very wrong...

    A multimeter is a good idea.
     
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  5. micropage7

    micropage7

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    Looks like over voltage, check it using multi meter
     
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  6. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    I'd be most inclined to think it is something to do with the fan header rather than the fan possibly being too thick and is getting sandwiched in between the heatsinks.

    A few options would be to get a generic but relatively quiet fan and connect it off the suspect fan header, then place it somewhere in the case for a while to see if the header is indeed kills another fan and connect your CPU fan to another header.
     
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  7. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Hmm. i don't have a multi-meter, but I might get one specifically to check this.

    I can't see any damage to the motherboard.

    My first fan didn't completely die, it started wobbling a little bit and i replaced it because of the vibrations.

    I'm not sure what took out the second fan, but when I took it out I noticed that the motor is seized up.

    I might go and look for that old wobbly fan and see if the header kills that.

    It could just be bad luck I suppose?
     
  8. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    Which is what i was thinking, that some thing is feeding them too much power as Cougar Vortex as i know of don't do 1800 RPM and believe 16xx RPM is the max.

    Mine 5 (CF-V12HP) of mine do around 1570-1630 @ max RPM. Which is more than they should do already.

    Maybe some thing is over loading them as the none Cougar fan failed too right ?. Was all so thinking faulty batch of Cougar fans but was the 1st one a Cougar ?.
     
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  9. SaiZo

    SaiZo

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    The fans, what type are they? Ball bearing, sleeve bearing or hydraulic bearing?
    I often mostly try to get ball bearing fans, then turn to SKF and replace (if possible) the ball bearings.

    But back to the fans, when it stopped, did it feel like it was warm? I'm thinking something is either like Widjaja said, or the strange fact that it is getting to much voltage. I have been able to run certain fans to around 30+ before they start to malfunction.

    You should really invest in a multimeter, doesn't need to be an expensive one, just so you can get the values and see wtf is going on.

    If it's the third wire, being the PWM, see if you can carefully remove that wire from the header carefully. I don't know what the fans cost over there, but see if you can salvage, or buy some cheapo fans and do some testing.
     
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  10. theoneandonlymrk

    theoneandonlymrk

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    A meter is mega handy and can be bought cheap ,do any of the other mobo headers have fans attached and are any of the others speed controllable what mobo do you have as the fan powering circuitry varies a lot between types
     
  11. silkstone

    silkstone

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    The first one was the stock V8 fan, The second a CM Sickleflow and the 3rd was the cougar. The first, I think is a sleeve-bearing and I think the second 2 are a variation on ball bearings, they have their own proprietary names.

    I seem to remember that when I screwed the bottom bracket of the V8 onto a fan that fan would stop spinning. But I can't remember the situation fully.

    I'll try the original fan again as it's only wobble, I'll take some pics and get back to you guys. Thanks for the input.
     
  12. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Update - I have the original fan back on the header and i'm going to keep it running for 20 mins to see if it dies. I'm not overly concerned as the bearings are going anyway. I'll try it in the V8 both without and then with it screwed in.

    Here are some pics of where the fan goes.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. d1nky

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    WTH!

    the amount of dust in that thing??

    no wonder things are dying lol
     
  14. Widjaja

    Widjaja

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    Don't think the dust would be a culprit for your dying fans but could be an issue.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
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  15. Norton

    Norton Moderator & WCG-TPU Captain Staff Member

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    Looks like you may need to blow out the RH tower on that cooler... I see some dust in there, possibly a lot of dust.

    If that side of the cooler is plugged, the bearing on your fan will overheat due to limited air flow. Try the following:

    - Reverse the flow of the fan (i.e. install it blowing the other way). Fans will likely stop dying as air flow over the bearing will be restored.
    - Blow out the cooler

    My $0.02 ;)

    EDIT- what they said ^^^
     
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  16. jsfitz54

    jsfitz54

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    Some fans come with a resistor to lower the voltage and reduce fan speed.

    You could try one and see if it helps.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
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  17. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

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    That is nothing. Seriously, it might affect performance a bit but it's not bad at all.
     
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  18. silkstone

    silkstone

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    I live in the dustiest city in the world :( Particulate air pollution here is a PITA.

    I'll clean the whole thing out in a few weeks when I get my new cooler.
    I'm thinking that maybe I have the V8 installed backwards and that the back of the fan is supposed to screw into the bracket, not the front. But, that shouldn;t kill my fans, should it?
     
  19. theoneandonlymrk

    theoneandonlymrk

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    You did test spin the fan by hand to check for obstruction ??. Whilst fitted obv.
     
  20. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Yes, I tested that, i tried to get it spinning while in the V8 (after it died) and nothing.

    I just re-fitted the original fan and apart from the annoying vibrations from the dying bearings, it's fine. I'm stumped. :confused:

    I do remember the situation when the fans would stop spinning. When I the original fan (fan 1) started to go, I tried slipping a bit of paper between the bracket and the fan to dampen the vibrations and it just ended up causing the fan to stop. I couldn't figure out why but, I needed another fan anyway so I didn't investigate further.

    Here's a shot of the bracket from the front, although it is difficult to really see well due to the ram (and dust).

    [​IMG]

    It fits right up to the bracket without being screwed in but, I did it this time anyway. The top clip/shell doesn't come anywhere near the fan blades. I may just have to wait 3 weeks until I get my new cooler then I can investigate with the whole thing out of my case.

    I would do it now, but the HAF 922 I have is quite badly designed, the hole in the backplate does not line up with the cpu on the motherboard so I have to take the whole thing apart to remove the HSF :(

    Edit - I'm starting to think that maybe I just got a bad fan. I ensured that it was spinning, while it was in the V8, before closing the cover. I can't see any way that the V8 caused it to die if it was initially spinning at decent RPM. Still, i think i will put the cheaper sickleflow back in after getting a replacement, just in case.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  21. Norton

    Norton Moderator & WCG-TPU Captain Staff Member

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    Lokks like you may have missed a pin with the connector for the fan... hard to really see with the pic you posted but I would double check it anyway.

    See your pic vs the a board pic:
    [​IMG]

    *Note- I have done this a few times myself :eek:
     
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  22. silkstone

    silkstone

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    With the 4 pin PWM ones, i think it's difficult to miss a pin. I think that is the top of the fan connector rather than the fan header though.

    I checked anyway of course :)

    [​IMG]

    Edit - I just had a thought. It couldn;t be the fact that I have a 80mm fan zip-tied on to the front of the cooler could it? I don;t really see how it could be an issue as there is lots of space between the smaller front heatsink assembly and the main front one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
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  23. jsfitz54

    jsfitz54

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    This looks wrong(only two wires black), maybe bad photo:

    [​IMG]

    Look at this to compare pin out:

    http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/Motherboard_(CPU)_4_Pin_Fan


    Is there any chance of motherboard shorting on the back side of case or a pinched wire some place(putting energy where it does not belong)?

    Look at the 8 pin braid directly behind the fan header. Has a solder barb on the back of the fan header pierced a wire???
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
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  24. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Highly doubtful. Everything is routed behind the back panel. There are no wires running under the motherboard. At the moment, I'm just going to put it down to having bad luck.

    The first fan is back in there. It didn't die completely, but the bearings have almost had it.
    It still works at about 1/2 the normal speed, but will only last a few more days before dying compeltly.
    The second fan must have been good for at least a month given the dust build up on them. The fan is completely seized up, this indicates to me that the bearings went rather than the motor dying.
    The 3rd fan is the one that died inside of 5 mins. The bearings are fine and it spins nicely when you give it a push.

    Edit - the fan looks like it has 2 black wires, but i think one of them is just really dark blue.
     
  25. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    If the zip tie was coursing the issue with the Couger it would not of bee running 1800 RPM as the center piece would of dragged on the heatsink which would of made it spin slower and not 300 RPM over what they say they are.

    Let me know how the fan replacement goes with Couger if you decide to send it back to them.
     
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