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whats the best monitor : BenQ vs Samung vs Dell

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Had a 60hz va cheap ass Benq before, smearing in games was out of this world. Going to 60hz ips felt like a world of difference.
 
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You'll have to answer these pressing questions, again.
No I don't. The ones that actually apply to OLEDs (which of course, are not the same as plasmas) have already been addressed and answered - including the blue fade issue years ago. So to suggest they are "pressing questions" just indicates you are way behind the times. :(

And certainly longevity is not an issue with OLED TVs having a projected lifespan of 100,000 hours! That's 10 hours of viewing every day for 30 years! Even if the blue fade issue cuts that in half, that's still viewing 10 hours per day, 365 days per year, for 15 years!

And burn in (for any type monitor) is no excuse these days either - not unless you plant a company logo on the screen and never ever move it about. Who does that? And why would you buy a premium monitor for that anyway?

Some common sense needs to come into play here. No monitor technology is perfect.

So with an unparalleled display, technical issues with early generation displays resolved, and I'll-be-dead-of-old-age-before-it-dies is why last year, I bought what many professional review sites reported was the best TV that's ever been made.
Simply put, you can’t buy a better TV in 2017 than LG’s C7 OLED.

Now again, we likely will not see OLED "computer" monitors for awhile as prices still need to come down. Maybe never if IPS panel technologies continue to improve as they have. It is important also to remember that hard core computer enthusiasts, including gamers who demand super high quality displays, are but a tiny niche market compared to the entire global computer monitor market. So there needs to be increased "demand" for OLED computer monitors too before LG and others are enticed back in to the OLED PC monitor market.

OLED computer monitors are really a moot point for this discussion - but for those still interested, I'll post this good read then step out: OLED PC Monitors 2018: What's Taking Them So Long???
 
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Had a 60hz va cheap ass Benq before, smearing in games was out of this world. Going to 60hz ips felt like a world of difference.
Hope that won't be an issue for me but can always return it. It isn't going to be used for games, purely office and some photo editing.
 
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Hope that won't be an issue for me but can always return it. It isn't going to be used for games, purely office and some photo editing.
Here is the feedback I promised on the BenQ GW2470ML 24" 1080P VA panel. The BenQ VA panel is quite nice as an office computer panel, it is easy on the eyes and the colors are better than the older Asus VH242H TN that we had. It is not as nice colorwise as the Asus PB258Q IPS I am using at the moment but it is much easier on the eyes when it comes to strain. The viewable angle is extremely impressive and it appears to have an antiglare matte finish that is very nice regardless of room lighting. The speakers on it are actually excellent, which was a pleasant surprise. The unit is lightweight and easy to move around. It has a DVI plug which I appreciate because I prefer DVI to HDMI due to the durability of the screw in connectors. It also has a VGA D-SUB which is nice for older systems, and it has an HDMI. It has an analog audio line in. Unfortunately it did not include a DVI cable and did not include a line in cable, but I had these on hand. The monitor itself looks elegant with a thin bezel, the OSD menu is easy to navigate, and the stand seems sturdy but it lacks height adjustment unfortunately. I would recommend this screen if you are doing productivity tasks. I am not sure how it performs for gaming.
 

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Not the same BenQ model but thought it was interesting all the same.

 
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tftcentral said:
Dell UltraSharp UP3017Q 30" OLED Monitor Announced, January 7th 2016

At CES yesterday Dell showcased their new flagship monitor, the first monitor in their range (and really the first mainstream-brand monitor on the market) to used and OLED display! The 30" sized UP3017Q offers some amazing specs and is aimed primarily at professional users. It's part of their UltraSharp Premium (UP) range of displays. The UP3017Q offers an UltraHD resolution of 3840 x 2160 and offers a wide colour gamut covering 100% of the Adobe RGB reference space and 97.8% of the DCI-P3 reference space. The colour depth is also 1.07b as well through what we assume will be a native 10-bit colour depth given the cost and specs. Black depth is a key benefit of OLED as well, and this screen can offer a typical contrast ratio of 400,000:1. The response time is also an amazing 0.1ms. One source is stating it has a 120Hz refresh rate although we have not seen that confirmed anywhere else, including the Dell press release so we remain sceptical on that part. Especially considering the target audience and bandwidth requirements at Ultra HD resolution.
Apparently it is provided with either a monitor arm or traditional stand. Connectivity wise we know it will; have a USB Type-C connection enabling single cable power, video and data connectivity with compatible systems. There also appears to be Thunderbolt featured.

tftcentral said:
To prevent image burn-in, which can affect OLED, Dell has “incorporated a pixel shifting algorithm to prevent image burn-in.” Given the shorter lifetime of OLED as well, a human motion sensor is incorporated to help turn off the display when not being used. There's plenty of pics from CES at Engadget as well if you want to take a further look. The Dell UltraSharp 30 OLED monitor will be available March 31, 2016 on Dell.com in the United States starting at $4,999. More information and detail when we get it in this article.

tftcentral said:
in 2016 Dell announced their 30" UP3017Q display, which featured an OLED panel. This emerged for sale in the US but never made it to Europe and was quite quickly withdrawn from sale. At the moment there are no viable desktop displays using OLED technology.

So, the "not plasma" OLED tech now has one monitor announced (January), the Asus ProArt PQ22UC, after Dell's failure. It has a 21.6" diagonal size and an typical brightness of 140 cd/m2. Maybe it's shipping already? It looks like that pixel shifting algorithm didn't do the trick for Dell. :cool:
 
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It looks like that pixel shifting algorithm didn't do the trick for Dell.
That's just speculation. Many suggest they stopped because the cost of making OLED monitors still prices them out of range for most consumers. Dell stopped making the $5000 :eek: monitor because it was not selling in big enough numbers to make it worthwhile. This report suggests Dell was unhappy with the color drift problem when viewed from the sides. But I note most computer users sit directly in front of their monitors. So IMO, with poor sales, there was no incentive (read: profit $$$) to entice Dell to invest in further R&D.

There is the very real potential for manufacturing costs in the very near future for larger OLED displays to be less than current LCD technologies. So when those manufacturing techniques improve enough so makers can produce bigger displays more efficiently, OLED monitors will return in bigger numbers - unless some yet to be discovered better technology comes along first.

The idea that just because burn in "can" affect OLED displays is preventing sales is just silly. "Can" does NOT mean "will".

And the suggestion there has been no progress in marginalizing the disadvantages identified years ago with early generations OLEDs (like burn in and blue luminance issues) is just absurd. And it is important to remember the significant advantages that OLED already has. It supports significant faster response times - into the µseconds. And unless displaying pure white, OLEDs enjoy significantly lower energy consumption. OLEDs do not use a backlight so they have thinner panels than LCDs. And because of no backlight and the fact the individual pixels can be turned off, OLED panel can produce pure absoute black for better contrast ratios. And they have better viewing angles.

It is common for early generation technologies to have substantial disadvantage at first. Look at SSDs. First generation SSDs suffered from very limited write capacities - yet they cost an arm and a leg compared to hard drives. But today, those write limits on current generation SSDs are so high, normal users will never come near them (which is one reason why SSDs are used in more and more data centers too). And the prices have significantly come down too.

In the beginning, many felt the significant disadvantages of the LCD monitor would mean the CRT monitor would never go away.
 
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They are not useless, but they alone cannot be relied on. Published technical specifications are not bogus - at least with the major brands promoting their genuine products. Out and out false advertising is not allowed by most governments and there are too many independent watchdog groups (including review sites) to make sure they are not bogus.

Sorry but that simply doesn't support reality. What would you call a response time that is more than twice what is on the manufacturer's cut sheets ? If you were interviewing a candidate for a job at your company, how would you react to a resume that claimed a 4.0 GPA when the transcript said 2.0 ? There's a simple way to avoid the watchdogs, chnage the definition. Reality is the ISO response time tests, so the simple way to avod an issue with any "watchdog" change the definition. Another popular tactic used by manufactuyrers is to chnage panel suppliers ... after the reviews are in. And yes, the betetr manufacturers are not as bad as the "budget" brands.

Would could argue this all day long but as they saying goes, "let's go to the videotape":

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/aoc_agon_ag352ucg.htm AOC 352UCG Advertised response time 5 ms, reality is show below... "reality" average is more than twice advertised with a high of 48




http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xg270hu.htm#response_times Acer HB270HU Advertised response time 1 ms, reality is more than 5 times that



So yes, by any reasonable definition, an advertised response time which exaggerates the performance of a monitor by a factor of between 2 and 5 is bogus and of no value for making a purchase decision. And this is by no means an exception ... it IS the rule.
 
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Sorry but that simply doesn't support reality. What would you call a response time that is more than twice what is on the manufacturer's cut sheets ? If you were interviewing a candidate for a job at your company, how would you react to a resume that claimed a 4.0 GPA when the transcript said 2.0 ? There's a simple way to avoid the watchdogs, chnage the definition. Reality is the ISO response time tests, so the simple way to avod an issue with any "watchdog" change the definition. Another popular tactic used by manufactuyrers is to chnage panel suppliers ... after the reviews are in. And yes, the betetr manufacturers are not as bad as the "budget" brands.

Would could argue this all day long but as they saying goes, "let's go to the videotape":

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/aoc_agon_ag352ucg.htm AOC 352UCG Advertised response time 5 ms, reality is show below... "reality" average is more than twice advertised with a high of 48




http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xg270hu.htm#response_times Acer HB270HU Advertised response time 1 ms, reality is more than 5 times that



So yes, by any reasonable definition, an advertised response time which exaggerates the performance of a monitor by a factor of between 2 and 5 is bogus and of no value for making a purchase decision. And this is by no means an exception ... it IS the rule.

There is a truth to what you are saying but at the same time it is easy to draw the wrong conclusions based on those numbers.
A great example being the VA panels in these charts, that all suffer from an extreme highest G2G. It still does not mean these aren't 'fast' panels in their practical use case. All it means is that a specific transition of color is (much) slower than the rest. Which is what I'd dub the 'smearing' effect you get in darker hues. And its an effect that, for a lot of games, really doesn't worry me. I see it, and it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't stand out. And the 'rest' of the transitions are fast, and input lag is low.

All I have gathered from the last few pages of incredibly detailed back and forth (which is great) is a raw focus on technical specs as opposed to how they work in real life when you sit in front of each panel. In the end thát is what matters. So regardless of specs, make sure that whenever you buy a panel its going to be easy to return it free of cost.

About the image retention of OLED, that is not really an issue. The degradation of pixels (because thát is the core issue) happens with EVERY type of panel, in different degrees and for OLED its just that blues get weaker, faster than the others. Over time, OLED panels will gradually lose peak brightness, which isn't stellar to begin with. But yes, 10-15 years is what they are rated for and I have no worries they won't make that.

The problem with OLED is that there is only one serious OEM for it and that is LG, and there is high demand for its production lines. Monitors are too much of a niche (and risk - yields are lower at higher PPI) for them to care, at least for now. However, recent OLED TVs are getting pretty decent input response times, edging into sub 20 ms territory which is OK - not perfect - for most 'gaming' and monitor needs bar the competitive ones.
 
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You can cherry pick examples and 1 specification and use those exceptions (and there will always be some) to make a point but that just makes no sense. Exceptions don't make the rule.

There is always marketing fluff in product marketing, but that does not imply outright lies. And since there is no industry standard for such tests, differences are bound to happen.

How can Ford, Chevy and RAM all claim to build the best truck if not true? The fact is, they are all right - but it depends on what specification you look at.

As I noted, they are not useless, but they alone cannot be relied on. I NEVER EVER said or implied manufacturing documents should be any person's only source of information.

I have ALWAYS recommended users do their home work and check out legitimate review sites, and to NOT believe user reviews unless there are many claiming the exact same problem.

The manufacturer's documentation is a place to start. It alone should never be your deciding factor.
 
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That's just speculation.
Yes, there is a lot of speculation happening in your post.

There is also a lot of overcooked language to go with it, such as:

"very real" and "very near" in the same sentence
"silly"
"just absurd"

Many suggest
Who? I thought this was just speculation?

they stopped because the cost of making OLED monitors still prices them out of range for most consumers. Dell stopped making the $5000 :eek: monitor because it was not selling in big enough numbers to make it worthwhile.
tftcentral said "quickly pulled from the market" which implies there was a technical problem.

This report
suggests Dell was unhappy with the color drift problem when viewed from the sides. But I note most computer users sit directly in front of their monitors.
Dell never looked at the monitor before it put it into the market? That site wouldn't happen to be partially an evangelism outfit for OLED, right? (Since we're speculating.)

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
So IMO, with poor sales, there was no incentive (read: profit $$$) to entice Dell to invest in further R&D.
Yes, this makes great sense. Dell was the first to market with this fabulous new OLED tech and, after having spent all the money to bring a real product to market, one that went on sale (rather than being prototype/demo vaporware), it pulled it from the market instead of doing the horrible thing of building upon its investment.

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
There is the very real potential for manufacturing costs in the very near future for larger OLED displays to be less than current LCD technologies.
Somehow, large format OLED is being sold in consumer-grade products but it's just too costly to sell it in prosumer and pro monitor size packages? There is at least one flaw in the technology that prevents it from entering those spaces, possibly several. The one lone monitor (has it shipped yet?) following the panel Dell removed from the market has a diagonal of 21.6" or something, and a low brightness level.

The laws of physics are a problem for some products, regardless of how much effort engineers put into working around them. It may be that the blue pixels of OLED, for instance, can't be fixed adequately for the purpose of introducing a prosumer or above monitor with HDR-grade brightness, or even less.

The recently announced small monitor makes a point of saying that it is not using the white subpixel work-around, as I recall. The wording was unclear so it may refer to something else. Interpreting it as referring to the white subpixel implementation (a workaround to help to alleviate the inherent lifespan problem of blue OLED) helps to explain the panel's low brightness. It also suggests that the white subpixel workaround is not a great solution for the prosumer/pro monitor space.

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
So when those manufacturing techniques improve enough so makers can produce bigger displays more efficiently, OLED monitors will return in bigger numbers - unless some yet to be discovered better technology comes along first.
In other words, when the tech has improved to be good enough, it will be good enough. Otherwise, something else will sell. This is news?

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
The idea that just because burn in "can" affect OLED displays is preventing sales is just silly. "Can" does NOT mean "will".
What's silly is the dodging you continue to do around this issue. Two professional sources have been posted that rebut your posts and yet you continue.

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
And the suggestion there has been no progress in marginalizing the disadvantages identified years ago with early generations OLEDs (like burn in and blue luminance issues) is just absurd.
Overwrought dismissive language doesn't create substance.

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
And it is important to remember the significant advantages that OLED already has. It supports significant faster response times - into the µseconds. And unless displaying pure white, OLEDs enjoy significantly lower energy consumption. OLEDs do not use a backlight so they have thinner panels than LCDs. And because of no backlight and the fact the individual pixels can be turned off, OLED panel can produce pure absoute black for better contrast ratios. And they have better viewing angles.
Plasma had important advantages over LCD and yet where are the plasma desktop monitors? Where are the plasma televisions? Why did plasma get killed off well before OLED became a dominant standard?

No matter how many positives a product has, its negatives also matter. Plasma wasn't very compatible with the fad of selling people increasingly tiny pixel pitches, pixels smaller than they can possibly see from normal TV/film viewing distances. It used more power than the efficiency marketing (which LCD makers used successfully, despite the big picture lack of relevance) made seem reasonable. It had retention and burn-in problems, like OLED. It was heavy. OLED may face a significant problem from the pixel shrinkage obsession that manufacturers have used to convince people to replace their televisions. As the pixels get smaller and the brightness increases (i.e. HDR), those blue pixels face an increasing individual lifespan strain. It may be that retention and burn-in become bigger problems as the pixels shrink. There is also the problem of color drift. If, for instance, the blue pixels dim from use faster than the other colors then the color gamut could shrink over time. Not only would the monitor need a lot of calibration (which is common with pros already) but the shrunken gamut could make the panel unusable by graphics pros.

https://www.oled-info.com/dell-brings-back-its-up3017q-30-4k-oled-monitor-and-slashes-price-1500
In the beginning, many felt the significant disadvantages of the LCD monitor would mean the CRT monitor would never go away. It is common for early generation technologies to have substantial disadvantage at first.
It's also hardly unheard of for technologies to fail, or to become so niche that mass-market corporations don't invest in improving them. The main evangelist of plasma said plasma could be improved to use a lot less power and to work with 4K. Corporations, though, made the decision not to pursue plasma further.

Plasma screens were once used as computer monitors, too. Maybe we'll see OLED displays become commonplace as computer monitors. Perhaps we won't. It all depends on the severity of the drawbacks when compared with the competing technologies. There was a big demand for a better-performing PowerPC than the G4 in Mac laptops and Apple/IBM couldn't get the G5/Power architecture to work in the power envelope. So, it just didn't happen. Apple had to abandon Power in favor of Intel. The Power architecture had plenty of virtues and could have been improved. However, a mobile Power CPU, particularly one for Apple, was never developed.

The things I said in my post have been upheld. I said OLED has not displaced LCD for computer monitors. I said OLED is vulnerable to retention and burn-in, something two independent sources confirmed. If OLED were truly so great, in terms of it not having serious issues relating to those I discussed, it wouldn't have been pulled from the market. We wouldn't see giant OLED televisions at reachable consumer prices — consumer-grade products, only. We would see pro-level products, halo products — particularly given than laundry list of advantages you posted. Of course people love the contrast ratio of OLED. Pro photo/graphics people certainly aren't happy with the horrible contrast ratios of IPS, or the black crush/angle problems of VA. It's obvious that people want OLED. The question is... is it good enough? Technology typically trickles down. Reference panels, pro-grade monitors for photography... those kinds of things are above, not below, $3000 jumbo consumer TVs, readily-available for years now.

Dell had no problem selling IPS professional screens with low contrast ratios (one popular one had a ratio below 800:1 when calibrated). If OLED were truly ready I seriously doubt something as minor as off-angle viewing angle performance would have caused the company to pull their product. It's clear that just the contrast ratio advantage by itself is more important than off-angle consistency, provided that ratio doesn't come with face-on black crush, as VA does. So, it's clear that other problems, more critical flaws, are in play.

About the image retention of OLED, that is not really an issue. The degradation of pixels (because thát is the core issue) happens with EVERY type of panel, in different degrees and for OLED its just that blues get weaker, faster than the others.
OLED is a lot different than other panel types. We can't just say "Well, they all have problems" and hand-wave the blue subpixel longevity issue. That is, unless it truly has been fixed, like with a new material. The white subpixel workaround may be enough for televisions at 4K, but what about the 8K propaganda that has already been around for two years or more? It's only going to speed up. People will be convinced that they really can see the difference at normal TV viewing distances, even though they can't (even though 1440 would have been good enough for HDTV/film at normal, not desktop, distances). HDR is being heavily pushed, putting intense pressure on the panel to produce a lot of brightness. There is no conventional backlight to produce that brightness in OLED.

Retention and burn-in are far more of a problem for some panel tech types than others. CRT is more prone to burn-in than TN and VA LCD, for instance. Plasma is really prone to retention and is vulnerable to burn-in. IPS is possibly more vulnerable to burn-in than TN and VA, although I wonder if that testing that suggested this was using a constant-control backlight in the IPS panel, versus PWM. It seems reasonable to assume that a particularly low duty cycle PWM would make a panel much less prone to retention and burn-in than a constant control backlight.

Plasma and CRT are dead now. They're dead because they had drawbacks that outweighed their strengths in the marketplace. This is despite the fact that both have particular strengths. I'll bet, for instance, that plasma is less prone to fading for blue and violet display than OLED is. I've never seen anyone have to work around a problem with blue fading in plasma by adding white to the mix. CRT is the best tech, as far as I know, for input lag. Plasma has better uniformity than LCD. Plasma has better contrast than the vast majority of LCD panels. Plasma has better off-angle viewing gamma/color consistency than LCD.

Over time, OLED panels will gradually lose peak brightness, which isn't stellar to begin with. But yes, 10-15 years is what they are rated for and I have no worries they won't make that.
Which ones? The panels in the Dell monitor that Dell took off the market? Or, are we talking about the lone replacement which has a low max brightness, fresh out of the box — just as HDR is becoming big in the marketplace.
 
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