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Who'll be the better president?

Discussion in 'TPU Frontpage Polls' started by W1zzard, Oct 1, 2008.

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Who'll be the better president?

Poll closed Oct 6, 2008.
  1. Barack Obama

    1,290 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. John McCain

    333 vote(s)
    14.9%
  3. But I want George W. Bush

    177 vote(s)
    7.9%
  4. Don't care

    429 vote(s)
    19.2%
Thread Status:
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  1. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    No, I couldn't link that reference to your asking us to close this thread. It didn't even sound sarcastic. Nice read though :laugh:
     
  2. TUngsten

    TUngsten

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    Yeah, the republicans have done such a great job for us these last 8 years...I'd take an activist extremist over an ignorant warmongering extremist any day of the week.

    And what happens if McCain gets elected, and keels over mid-term? If the words President Palin don't make you think the whole shebang is DOOMED, I don't think there's anything that anyone on earth could say to make you wake up.

    ps TRT: spellcheck FTW.
     
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    10 Year Member at TPU
  3. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

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    Srry, Bta, my bad. Won't happen again.

    In response to bigenuff', I like to say that I willing pay taxes.
    I have no problem with supporting my government.
    I do not agree with everything that they do with my money, and I do not like the way they go about taxing us, but that is up to us as voting citizens to correct.

    If there were no taxes, there would be no government. With no government there would be anarchy.
    Taxes are preferable to anarchy IMO.

    People always want less taxes (which is fine with me. I'd like to keep more of my money).
    But I also think that many people that want less taxation have no idea what are tax dollars are being used. This is what people should be keenly interested in, and use their vote to pick a candidate (whether federal, state or municipal) who wants to kill off worthless tax-sucking programs and reign in other programs that are spending foolishly.
    Reducing the need for tax spending will reduce the need for tax collecting.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  4. mdm-adph

    mdm-adph

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    Seriously, there's an argument for Obama, people of America -- give him a chance. He can't do any worse than what you're used to -- at best, he'd be like Morgan Freeman, wise, brave; at worst, he'll be like Jimmy Carter, honestly meaning well (regardless of what happens). If you don't like what he does, vote him out.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  5. Bigjohn

    Bigjohn

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    Public schools are little more than tools that the government uses to indoctrinate future statists. If you home school or send your kid to a private school, you don't get your "taxes" back, so it's theft (paying for non-delivered goods...)

    Through the interstate commerce clause of the constitution, this is arguably a "constitutional" function of government, but the country existed before governments raped peoples wallets to give their brother-in-law a roads contract... People used to do it themselves. Put one where they needed it.

    howzat? saywhatnow? You're way out on the limb there. Everything that the internet is has NOTHING to do with taxes, except that the government gets to grab another $4.00 from me every month for the my having the audacity to HAVE the service...

    well, let's just get completely silly, why don't we... but then... the Government "claims" all that land... and, when you want to be all by yourself, they'll send a goon squad to get you for non-payment of taxes or something... end up killing you and your friends, maybe even your kids...

    Umm. wow. So, you belive that the STATE owns you? You work, they get their cut, you get yours? that's just wrong. People worked BEFORE the government had withholding taxes. They filled out a postcard and sent in a check for their .5% tax...

    Well, the romans did not tax as much... at least not the citizens of rome. They conquered and pillaged, and made the subjects slaves.

    Speaking of slaves... what was it, the 13th amendment to the constitution that abolished slavery.. Funny how they brought it right back with the 16th... now, every living person owes a part of their life to the state...
     
  6. proletariandan

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    :roll:
     
  7. GSG-9

    GSG-9

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    I thought Politics were a no no on tpu. ;)
     
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  8. trt740

    trt740

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    so your saying he can act , I believe that.
     
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  9. trt740

    trt740

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    Well didn't realize this was english class so thx for those kind words and I never said Mccain was better. Your showing ,your I'm better than you liberal side.

    P.S try and be a little nicer and less arrogant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
    10 Year Member at TPU
  10. Rammsteiner New Member

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    Yeah, it was a long time ago clear USA is not a democracy in various ways.

    Nice theory, but your government is a powerfull minority and does not care about anything else vs the majority of the rest of the world, that's right then?

    Although I dont care since I dont live there, it's not a theft. It's called a theft by the theory of one guy/group.

    It's a bit like Bush called some pipes materials for mass destruction weapons in Iraq, it's just a theory. Or that Israelian freightplane who crashed in Amsterdam was just empty, another nice theory.

    But why is it wrong, because it's communistic or that it taxes working people to suit non-working people? Besides that, its called socialism really, it has barely to do with communism. Yet I do not aprove of this tax, but that doesnt matter that you put it in a wrong light.

    Seems like USA has a very good immigration thing then:roll:

    So being a governor makes someone qualified for being a president? After Bush has been there for 8 years? And this does not raise any questions by you?

    So what, so could any other soldier have done that. It shows more he read too many comics than he's an hero of any sort.

    Like McCain said there's no problem? Also the major problems began when USA started the war against terrorism. We know crisii are a cycle, but compare dollar vs Euro, they were like 1:1 just as Bush began, and now we're looking at a whole other numbers. In a crisis it's globally about the same impact. Now the major statue of capitalism falls on its nose.

    But well, your vote is quite clear though:nutkick:
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  11. Bigjohn

    Bigjohn

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    McCain sponsored a bill 2 years ago to stop the fraud in the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac corps. This is when the dems were parading and saying 'we don't need that, there is no problem"...
     
  12. das müffin mann

    das müffin mann

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    where did you come from :eek:
    long time no see
     
  13. trt740

    trt740

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    Barney Frank our fearless leader (or Queen)
     
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  14. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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    I cannot think of when that has ever been the case. True, political threads almost always get locked, but that is because people cannot resist fighting and calling each other names after a length of time.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  15. niko084

    niko084

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    Lol.... Ya get that... Farmer/Laborer isn't part of the DFL anymore...

    Obama is too extremist for me.

    McCain may is so close to democrat the majority of the republican party dislikes him.

    But I will take experience over anything, especially when one guy is pretty much running his campaign off personality.... Got my attention in the start, but that was where it ended.

    And Obama's wanting to skip out of the congressional vote/discussions about the federal bailout to have a stupid debate really shows how much he lacks in responsibility in his current position.

    Can't say who would be better, but I know who I'm more comfortable with.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  16. intel igent

    intel igent New Member

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    he was using his pseudonym :laugh:

    "free man on land" <<<< inform yourself ;)
     
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  17. Nitro-Max

    Nitro-Max New Member

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    I like obama but i would'nt say no to a bit of sarah palin if you know what i mean!!:laugh:
     
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  18. pepsi71ocean New Member

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    :roll::toast:
     
  19. CyberVisions New Member

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    SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE NON-VETERAN. You have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what it's like to be a Vet after having made a completely downright ignorant statement like that. Veterans don't pay for their health care? Yeah, right. What do you think it cost them to get into the hospital dipstick? What's really bad is that advances in military medicine now means you could be "lucky" not to be KIA outright in battle - you could lose all 4 limbs and more and still be "saved" by military doctors.

    My 8 years of Active Duty in the Submarine Force, months spent away from my family, years in the Reserve at the Pentagon, Desert Shield, Desert Storm. Yeah, it didn't cost me a damn thing.

    Sorry, the cost of "free" military health care was finally just a bit too high. One day, God forbid, if you ever have kids, I hope you experience long absences from your family, and having your daughter run to the other side of a room because she doesn't know who you are after you return. Maybe you need that experience to open your eyes. Of course in my experience, liberal buttwipes like you and other Obama backers generally tend to take their freedoms (especially speech) too much for granted, leaving to the defense of the country to people like McCain and myself, along with countless others who know what the true cost of military benefits really are. But you'd be the first to be screaming for military help if a Hadji was beating on your door or raping your wife and kids.

    As a Vet who's been on disability for the last 9 years, and has had 3 major spinal operations the last 12 years, I can honestly say I'm happy to use my wife's medical rather then military or anything government sponsored. It was that "great military healthcare system" that got me DQ'd from Submarine duty based on a faulty test - but in the military, doctors are God, unlike in the civilian world where you can happily tell them to piss off if you don't like their screwed up diagnosis.

    I personally despise Obama and everything he stands for. Those of you who have never tasted what it's like to lose your freedoms and liberty will soon know if you elect this pretender to the White House in a wartime environment. This idiot wants to be POTUS, and he's only got 3 years of any kind of "experience"? You people are nothing short of downright insane and gullible to the point that you believe everything the mainstream media tells you. Of course that usually goes with not having any real-world experience - only armchair experience and no clue but what MTV tells you.

    Many of you may not like Bush, but that's usually because you have no clue as to the real strategic reasons we're in the Middle East - and no, it's not just because of oil, although that's a big part of it. And at least Bush, unlike you and others here, realized that as long as the Hadji's are fighting the "Great Satan" over in Iraq, they'd be less focused on attacking us here while we've focused on repairing the damage that Clinton did to our National Security apparatus. My wife works at one of the Postal facilities here in the Washington, D.C. area - she knew and lost friends during the Anthrax attacks here, and I shudder when I think it could've been her. Even though the attacker was proven to be a US citizen living about 20 miles up the road from where I live, the fact is that he used 9/11 as cover for his attacks.

    The economy? Yeah, it's bad now, started when, about 2 years ago? Up until then, we had a great economy. Let's see, what happened 2 years ago? Oh yeah - the Democrats retook control of Congress and wiped out all the economic gains that Bush had made! You know why? Because they're willing to do absolutely anything at your or my expense to seize total control of the government. And with willing propaganda sponges like you and others here, they might just do it.

    Many of you also don't know or realize that most countries' economies are based on strategic minerals and materials that cannot be found on their own soil - they have to be imported by ship or train. Shipping of strategic minerals is the main reason the US Navy exists - to keep those things flowing to the country so we can survive. Those carriers need fuel - Iran knows, as Saddam did, that whoever controls the flow of Mideast oil controls the strategic interests of most countries on this planet, not just the US.

    You complain now of Bush's strategy and policies - I'd bet you be howling if you weren't able to turn on your computer and voice your BS on these and other forums, or couldn't turn on your stereo. Oh, that's right - you wouldn't be able to even buy them because you couldn't get to work, since the economy would've collapsed. I wonder if you, like most, dislike Bush because of what you actually know or the lies fed to you by the media about what they want you to believe about him. Actually, you've already answered that question.

    Of course, NObama and his leftist buddies have all but seen to that - they blame Bush for the Fannie and Freddie screwup, but the responsibility for that is squarely on the Democrats shoulders, specifically Clinton's repeal of Glass-Steagall in '99:

    http://tinyurl.com/2r7mje

    The Democrats have literally gone off the deep end, lying, illegally raising money, even pushing an unqualified super-leftist for their POTUS candidate - anything to get total control. These people are so arrogant they even blow off Supreme Court decisions that they don't want to believe in, but are the first to file suit if it's a ruling they do believe in. It's taking Congressional action to force the D.C. government to recognize the recent 2nd Amendment ruling that invalidates old D.C. gun laws. The DC government tried to legislate the ruling away, but Congress is smart enough not to let them get away with it.

    You think Bush lied about Iraq? Sorry dude - the only lies about Iraq and anything else have come from the left and the media. You want the truth - go to Michael Yon's blog and read about what really happened there and what's happening now in Afghanistan:

    http://tinyurl.com/4en394

    We turned over control of Iraq to the Iraqi government in June; just 3 weeks ago we scored what is considered the biggest victory over Al Qaeda since we've been fighting them. They've been reduced to a non-entity in Iraq, and violence there is at an all time low. But you don't hear about that, do you? In fact, most Americans had to get that info from British news wires, as US mainstream media didn't want to publish anything that would make NOBama look bad. I'd bet cash money you and most people here don't even know about either of those facts.

    One of the things the Democrats have harped on for years (more lies about Bush, rather than Bush lies) is the "Bush lied about WMD" BS. No he didn't. In fact, if it weren't for Bush, the Iranians probably would have their hands on enough Uranium yellowcake to make several nukes.

    The Democrat's "Bush Lied" BS stems from a 2003 State of the Union address in which he cited an intelligence report about Saddam looking to get more Uranium yellowcake from Africa. Their "proof" was an Italian report that showed their intelligence to be faulty on the issue. The problem with that argument is that Bush wasn't referring to any Italian intel - he was referring to credible British intelligence that confirmed that Iraquis were in fact talking to the Nigerian government about obtaining more yellowcake material. (for those of you who don't know about yellowcake, it's un-enriched uranium that can be enriched to weapons-grade material by processing it through a centrifuge). Even Factcheck.org acknowledges this, and they're one of the most liberal mouthpieces on the planet.

    What actually happened (and I won't tell you how I know this) is that Saddam never intended to buy any more yellowcake than he already had (about 55 tons). His gamble was that if he faked trying to obtain more, the Allies would believe he did in fact have nukes and would use them. What he never counted on was an invasion - his gamble backfired in about as big a way as possible.

    That Saddam's yellowcake material was being secretly guarded by U.S. forces since the beginning of the invasion was unknown until just a few weeks ago, when it was finally removed from Iraq and sent to a Canadian firm. Of course that wasn't covered by the mainstream media either - even though it was known that Saddam had Uranium yellowcake, it wasn't widely known publicly, and after the invasion it was guarded closely for fear it would be targeted either by Iran or Al Qaeda.

    Removing Saddam and stabilizing Iraq with a more western-friendly government has always been one of the main focuses of the war, as Iran is a much bigger threat. Unlike Saddam, who wasn't able to obtain the kind of centrifuges necessary to enrich Uranium to weapons-grade material, Iran already has those kinds of centrifuges, and their talk of a "civilian nuclear program" is about as truthful as North Korea's pledge that theirs is entirely peaceful. Don't forget that the Korean War was never fully resolved; only an armistice was signed and a DMZ created.

    What really gets me is that less than a week after the Al Qaeda victory by Allied forces, Biden had the unmitigated gall to stand up on national TV and state that the US is "bogged down" in Iraq. The anti-war left is doing and saying anything and everything to try and show Iraq as the biggest foreign policy blunder in US history, and idiots like you are actually buying into it even though we've been successful there. Biden's an even bigger buttwipe than NObama is. How do I know? My daughter's boss - his wife is Biden's scheduler, and living in the DC area for over 30 years you get to know jerks like Biden. She doesn't like him, and she's a lot more liberal than most.

    Strange that Biden's known plagiarism problems haven't hit the news like Chappaquiddick used to follow Ted Kennedy around. Oh, that's right - the media doesn't want people like you who aren't old enough to remember inconvenient facts like that to know.

    People forget that during the '92 election, the head of a large media organization admitted publicly that the only reason they were backing Clinton is that he had "more skeletons in his closet" and that his past would eventually catch up with him and make for more news. This AH said the only reason to back Clinton was to make more money off of him. It's the same with NObama, and if you and others that are blindly following the NObama banner can't see that, you're more ignorant than your statement about Vet health care implies that you are.

    NObama and Biden are in debt to the extreme anti-war left and the mainstream media, who have done everything and lied to try and sell defeat in Iraq to the American people and the rest of the globe. You and others have obviously bought into that BS they're selling, because they know that people like you don't bother checking facts - you just listen to whatever your told. People who have no experience or who don't understand why they're promoting something or someone radical have a hard time explaining just why it is they're supporting what they're supporting.

    All you've done is spout propaganda here on these forums, both campaign and from whatever recruiting pamphlet you got from the military. It's obvious you have no experience with the subjects you promote or you'd be able to back that propaganda with compelling arguments. You think NObama's tax plan will work? This idiot is talking about high taxes on corporations. You know what that means? Lots of layoffs - companies don't give up profits - they're in business to make money. If they have to shell out more to the government, they'll cut costs the easy way, by shutting down divisions with marginal profit. The only way Clinton was able to appear successful is that he had the benefit of Bush Sr's economic plan when he came to office - it takes several years for any major changes to affect the economy, and he reaped those changes Bush made after he was elected. Clinton was at least smart enough to leave some things alone, except for Glass-Steagall. He even admitted the Democrats were responsible for Fannie and Freddie just last week on ABC - guess his age is giving him cause to rethink his legacy of failed National Security and BJ's.

    Another thing that shows the gall of the Democrats - even though they're largely responsible for the Fannie/Freddie meltdown, the "bailout plan" proposed is being inundated with pork-barrel, high-dollar pet Congressional projects tacked on to it.

    National Security - something no one wants to think about when talking about NObama because he has no experience with it at all except what he's told to say. The Mideast war has been going on since 1979, before many of you were even born or knew where the Mideast is. I'll bet the majority of you can't even remember or don't know how we got involved there to begin with. I'll give you a hint: it was during Reagan's first term, an it involved the USSR.

    Recently, a refugee wrote an interesting story to the Editor of a newspaper about another young, up and coming politician much like Obama who made many of the same promises. Here's an excerpt from his letter:

    "When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said, 'Praise the Lord.' And when the young leader said, 'I will be for change and I'll bring you change,' everyone yelled, 'Viva Fidel!

    But nobody asked about the change, so by the time the executioner's guns went silent, the people's guns had been taken away.
    By the time everyone was equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and oppressed.
    By the time everyone received their free education, it was worth nothing.
    By the time the press noticed, it was too late, because they were now working for him.
    By the time the change was finally implemented, Cuba had been knocked down a couple of notches to Third-World status.
    By the time the change was over, more than a million people had taken to boats, rafts, and inner tubes.
    You can call those who made it ashore anywhere else in the world the most fortunate Cubans.

    And now I'm back to the beginning of my story.
    'Luckily, we would never fall in America for a young leader who promised change without asking, what change? How will you carry it out? What will it cost America?
    'Would we?'"

    Manuel Alvarez, Jr.
    Richmond Times-Dispatch, Monday, July 7, 2008
    Verified by TruthorFiction.com, August 2008

    Mr. Alvarez escaped Communist Cuba in 1968, and the person he's talking about is of course Fidel Castro.

    It's obvious many of you who support Obama so blindly never experienced life during the Cold War. After seeing Clinton and now the likes of Obama, there are many days I wish the USSR was still around - at least it was easier for people to know who the bad guys were.
    I wouldn't liken Obama to Castro though; I liken him to someone else, who, like Obama, was a much better orator, equally able to sway the populace over to his way of thinking. His name was Adolf Hitler.

    A lot of people who are blindly supporting Obama believe he can make their lives better. The majority of people in the US don't know and have never seen what real poverty is. If you live in anything other than a mud or cardboard hut and have running water, you're not impoverished.

    One of my most vivid recollections in Iran was when we visited a remote village near the Soviet border in the north near the Caspian Sea. Even though these people had nothing, they treated us like honored guests, even giving my parents a set of copper pitchers that was obviously worth much to them, but in their culture one does not refuse such things. (However, I wouldn't recommend the fresh goat cheese, regardless of culture or not...). Walking outside, their were deep gutters near the dirt road that had stagnant water in it. There was a small boy playing in it, and an older man was actually washing a plate in it, while a filthy mouse was swimming in the water nearby, making his way through the trash in the water.

    It was this kind of poverty that led the Shah of Iran to modernize his country too fast - the result of that was that when Khomeini came back to Iran from exile in Paris, he was welcomed with open arms by everyone. 30 years later, Khomeini's Islamic hatred has spread like a virus around the globe, using the US as Hitler used the Jews in WWII; scapegoats for any problem the poor have, until the country was in control by extremists.

    The Muslim culture of many Mideast countries are 12th century minded tribes living in the 21st century, and who would like nothing more than to bring the world back to 12th century standards, even the extremists in Saudi Arabia who would love to oust the ruling family. Unlike a lot of people here, I can actually say I've lived in Tehran, and I know the people of Iran. U.S. Intelligence recently caught Iran putting a mobile missile launch platform (truck based missile carrier) inside the hold of a cargo vessel, to test whether or not they could successfully launch a missile with the platform in launch configuration inside of the cargo hold way. The test was successful.

    For those of you that don't understand, what that means is that if they had access to a small nuke or biological weapon, they could mobile vehicle missile launcher, put it on a cargo vessel, sit off the coast of any country with a 3 mile limit and lob it toward whatever city they chose to hate that week. Right now, it's Washington, but it could always change. Tracing such a vessel would be extremely difficult as well. All it would take is a high altitude EMP burst over a strategic city and we'd be back riding horses. The only ones who wouldn't be affected in the U.S. are the Amish.

    As I said before, my daughter was as liberal as some of you here on these forums, having voted liberal since she was eligible to vote. However, she's been working at a lobbying firm in D.C. the past year, and getting a real education about how things really are on Capitol Hill. She's learning from experience what Obama and the Democrats are truly about. Maybe that's something the rest of you should do before blindly backing leftist propaganda.

    Of course if you want to live like a 12th Century shepherd, or you have Amish aspirations, then you'd better get used to a shepherd's crook or a horse and buggy with a long beard and lots of manual labor rather than a PC or anything else referred to on this site because if the anti-war liberals take control of the government, it won't be too much longer before we're attacked again. As I said, all it would take is a well placed EMP burst to roll back all technological gains. And if you think our enemies would just stand by and let us sit here without doing anything, you're really naive.

    And you should prepare to get used to a much different lifestyle also - Muslim men have a saying: "Boys are for pleasure, women are for babies".

    You and your Obama supporting buddies should fit in nicely.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
    Bigjohn and CStylen say thanks.
  20. Polaris573

    Polaris573 Senior Moderator

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    State your opinion without insults please.
     
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  21. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Damn, sometimes, just sometimes, it really is easier to be a Brit! :eek:
     
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  22. intel igent

    intel igent New Member

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    being canadian is the easiest......

    side note : and out come the multi user acct people! hide they are growing!
     
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  23. Tatty_One

    Tatty_One Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Why......thats just too close! :laugh:
     
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  24. intel igent

    intel igent New Member

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    you're not allowed to laugh. you're british.
     
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  25. niko084

    niko084

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    Indeed. Europe FTW!
     
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