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Who'll be the better president?

Who'll be the better president?

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 1,290 57.9%
  • John McCain

    Votes: 333 14.9%
  • But I want George W. Bush

    Votes: 177 7.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 429 19.2%

  • Total voters
    2,229
  • Poll closed .
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btarunr

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Heh, you proved my point that no one pays attention to McCain. I'll quote McCain from that very same debate:
It's Obama that wants to "throw money at the problem."
"competition among schools" (add more schools), "reward/promote good teachers", "bad teachers to be given another form of work". Seriously, how are you going to find good teachers in the first place, and in such high quantities (to fill all schools), when the only incentive is "reward/promote", isn't it essentially the same thing (splashing money)? For a kid sitting at home playing GTA, watching MTV, getting teenage girls laid, spending time trashtalking in the evening...how is it going to matter of how many schools are there in his 'hood? Reform the very world an American kid of today lives in, and you will reform the America of tomorrow.
 
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I coudnt agree more bta only a couple of days ago werk the registered nurse was talking to this young girl who on in the arvo. The rn goes "your on till quarter till eleven right" and the girl goes no 10:45 i just shook my head in disbelief :shadedshu:wtf:
 
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"people dont change , they put a new mask on"

zOaib, so, are you saying that you are exactly the same as you were when you were a child? A teenager? A college student? Before you got married?

You may want to think a bit more before you make inflammatory comments like that again. :banghead: People do change and grow, some more than others.
 

FordGT90Concept

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Seriously, how are you going to find good teachers in the first place, and in such high quantities (to fill all schools)
Quoting McCain again from the debate:
"We need to encourage programs such as Teach for America and Troops to Teachers where people, after having served in the military, can go right to teaching and not have to take these examinations which -- or have the certification that some are required in some states."

We can "reward" teachers in more ways than just monetary--like awards and recognition. Obviously, such a system needs strict rules to prevent abuse.


Also, he talked a lot about "vouchers" which I don't know much about having not lived in Washington D.C.


I think schools in general are failing because of an overemphasis on memory and a lack of emphasis on exploration. A lot of the behaviors you described could stem to lack of exploitative stimulation at school so their instincts drive to find it themselves.


I coudnt agree more bta only a couple of days ago werk the registered nurse was talking to this young girl who on in the arvo. The rn goes "your on till quarter till eleven right" and the girl goes no 10:45 i just shook my head in disbelief :shadedshu:wtf:
I hope she was just tired. I might be making some of those mistakes right now and not catch it. :x

Also, "quarter till eleven" is a moniker derived from analog clocks. A lot of younger people, like me, think all digital. I don't know if I would make the same mistake--I can't say I've heard of a time said like that since what, 4th or 5th grade?
 
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zOaib

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"people dont change , they put a new mask on"

zOaib, so, are you saying that you are exactly the same as you were when you were a child? A teenager? A college student? Before you got married?

You may want to think a bit more before you make inflammatory comments like that again. :banghead: People do change and grow, some more than others.
my comment is specific to politicians , politicians are not human beings like u and me , who care about their families or friends and have priorities un-affected by campaign supporters + lobbyists whether it be Obama or Mccain ( if you dont know this as a fact, then we need to stop this argument right here) so please do not use that analogy , makes me wonder about your intellectual level .

EDIT : they do also care about their families or friends ( financially inclined supporters , or interest groups ) BUT not us people cause we are the sheep and sheep is only good for fleecing and eating.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin, 1759

“If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you.” [Benjamin Franklin]

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." � H. L. Mencken
 
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FordGT90Concept

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They are every bit as human as you and I. They do care about their families very deeply like any sane parent is. McCain has said many times in the past that Sidney McCain (registered Democrat) has caused McCain to reconsider his stances. He's more towards the center because of her. Likewise, Palin is prioritizing special needs children now that she knows what it's about from first hand experience.

McCain has a history of standing up to lobbyists (again, learned from Keating Five).

Please, no attacks on intellect. It is uncalled for.
 

zOaib

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They are every bit as human as you and I. They do care about their families very deeply like any sane parent is. McCain has said many times in the past that Sidney McCain (registered Democrat) has caused McCain to reconsider his stances. He's more towards the center because of her. Likewise, Palin is prioritizing special needs children now that she knows what it's about from first hand experience.

McCain has a history of standing up to lobbyists (again, learned from Keating Five).

Please, no attacks on intellect. It is uncalled for.
Ford , i respect your views because they are very innocent views and views of true hearted americans , i just feel sorry for my fellow americans that are being fleeced by liars , thats all because i see them all as liars and frauds .

tell u what , let the elections run , and we will see the true colors of these hypocrates whoever it is , just like we did with Bush , though i will vote for Obama , since i wanna give a black guy a chance , whites have had enough chances its time for a color change.
 
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45 million is statistical bullshit.
18 million of those are ILLEGAL ALIENS - they don't deserve it, they're here criminally.
another 10+ million have MSA's. Because MSA's are not "traditional employer paid" health plans, Obama won't count them.
Please provide some sources for your numbers, or I'm going to call them bullshit.

And I don't. The last thing we need is a single party controlling the House, Senate, and Presidency. I don't even want to fathom the consequences. Let me just say this: If that does come to fruition, Yin killed Yang. :|
I know what you mean -- look what happened in the first 6 years of the Bush administration where the Republicans controlled both the US Congress and Presidency. Absolutely horrible. :shadedshu

But if the American Democrats in Congress can't do any better, then they'll get voted out just like the Republicans did in 2006.

"competition among schools" (add more schools), "reward/promote good teachers", "bad teachers to be given another form of work". Seriously, how are you going to find good teachers in the first place, and in such high quantities (to fill all schools), when the only incentive is "reward/promote", isn't it essentially the same thing (splashing money)? For a kid sitting at home playing GTA, watching MTV, getting teenage girls laid, spending time trashtalking in the evening...how is it going to matter of how many schools are there in his 'hood? Reform the very world an American kid of today lives in, and you will reform the America of tomorrow.
People always misunderstand the American school system. It's not one of the world's worst -- far from it. It's not a problem of mismanagement, or lack of funding (or too much) -- it's just that the "signal-to-noise" ratio is so high.

America pumps out as much scholars and scientists as it ever did, but there happens to be a lot more dumbasses than there ever were before, so it makes everyone else (and the system in general) look bad.

That's why no politician tries to address it or fix it -- there's really no way. :laugh:
 

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Ford , i respect your views because they are very innocent views and views of true hearted americans , i just feel sorry for my fellow americans that are being fleeced by liars , thats all because i see them all as liars and frauds .
I don't know if I would go as far as calling them "liars and frauds" but we certainly are not doing enough to hold elected officials accountable. We need more transparency and a lot more of it at that. We need to kill the Patriot Act and author new bills that spell out what information is private and which is to be transparent spanning all mediums, interstate and international. For instance, corporations should be 100% transparent because if they have anything to hide, someone should probably be in jail. Individuals, however, need very strong protections on certain things like health history and basically any other pieces of information that is likely to be used for discrimination. Any viewing of that information needs explicit written consent. Other stuff like phone number and address would be public domain.

Obama and McCain both are talking about digitizing medical records. I'm not certain if digitizing is the way to go but we definitely have to reexamine the issue with a clear mind (not in panic mode).


tell u what , let the elections run , and we will see the true colors of these hypocrates whoever it is , just like we did with Bush , though i will vote for Obama , since i wanna give a black guy a chance , whites have had enough chances its time for a color change.
Obama will have plenty of opportunities to run in the future, McCain won't.
 

btarunr

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People always misunderstand the American school system. It's not one of the world's worst -- far from it. It's not a problem of mismanagement, or lack of funding (or too much) -- it's just that the "signal-to-noise" ratio is so high.

America pumps out as much scholars and scientists as it ever did, but there happens to be a lot more dumbasses than there ever were before, so it makes everyone else (and the system in general) look bad.

That's why no politician tries to address it or fix it -- there's really no way. :laugh:
My point was, that there were less 'dumbasses' when the general scientific temperament was high...back in the 50s. The issue the system is facing is what the moderator of that debate brought up. The governments back then never needed to intervene into the education system, education was 'cool'.
 
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I am driving people to polls in the coming days for early voting so I might not be on this thread as much. Last debate is over and I believe the debates were a success. Good to see democracy in action.

I am voting for Obama. I suggest others to do the same. ;)
The debates were a success, and you're still voting to burn the constitution on the steps of the capital, eh?

Bleh.
 
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My point was, that there were less 'dumbasses' when the general scientific temperament was high...back in the 50s. The issue the system is facing is what the moderator of that debate brought up. The governments back then never needed to intervene into the education system, education was 'cool'.
Ah, but perhaps there were less dumbasses because there were less people in general. ;)

And the government back then certainly intervened in America -- government's always been involved in education in America, as far as I know. Doesn't really look like it's involved anymore or any less today, but of course there's no way to be sure unless we get some concrete funding/legislative figures. Here's a quick little read I found about it on an official US site if you're interested.
 
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The debates were a success, and you're still voting to burn the constitution on the steps of the capital, eh?

Bleh.
You know, this may be premature, but I'm going to go ahead and call you an official Internet Troll. Nobody said anything about burning the Constitution, and you didn't give any evidence of that actually happening, anyway.
 

btarunr

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Ah, but perhaps there were less dumbasses because there were less people in general. ;)
Obviously I was talking with proportion to the population.
And the government back then certainly intervened in America -- government's always been involved in education in America, as far as I know. Doesn't really look like it's involved anymore or any less today, but of course there's no way to be sure unless we get some concrete funding/legislative figures. Here's a quick little read I found about it on an official US site if you're interested.
Ah..but intervention on the scale of playing with the market (increasing number of schools (read: competition), rewarding teachers, etc)?

The "Competition" should exist between individuals, not schools. Look at Singapore. Kids there have access to GTA, internet, TV, toys...but there's essentially a high competitive spirit. Money can't induce that.
 

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I saw the debate last night. I'm a simple guy so I'll keep it simple: McCain came off as a complete douche.

I hate how he hides behind a smile and a laugh when putting something obviously dickheadish out there.
 

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"competition among schools" (add more schools), "reward/promote good teachers", "bad teachers to be given another form of work". Seriously, how are you going to find good teachers in the first place, and in such high quantities (to fill all schools), when the only incentive is "reward/promote", isn't it essentially the same thing (splashing money)? For a kid sitting at home playing GTA, watching MTV, getting teenage girls laid, spending time trashtalking in the evening...how is it going to matter of how many schools are there in his 'hood? Reform the very world an American kid of today lives in, and you will reform the America of tomorrow.
I have to take the opposite viewpoint. Education is required to reform the world. Educated people are less likely to commit crimes and are more likely to make better decisions for the betterment of their neighborhood and country. Like it or not wealth, power, and stability come to those with an education much more easily than those without. India is a prime example of this as it is making a rapid transition where more and more people are obtaining an education. Look at the cities where there is a higher percentage of educated people versus the rural areas. Is it fair to say the quality of life is better where there is a higher percentage of people with an education? Is the country as a whole not becoming more competitive worldwide as the quality of the education of the average person increases? Education is the key to ending both poverty and violence.

I'm going to take it a step further and apply the policy of education to aid for third world nations as well. Instead of simply spending millions of dollars every year in aid to third-world nations to try to solve their problems could we not invest in their education system to provide schools and teachers. Armed with an educated populace couldn't third world nations have a much greater chance of solving their problems on their own? Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach him to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

Also, since I mentioned India earlier I would just like to say it shames me to no end that the U.S. makes such a big deal out of being allies with Pakistan, an unstable possibly oppressive nation. India is just next door which is a rapidly improving, much more stable nation, that has a lot more in common with the U.S. than Pakistan. With such a great nation in the region we should work much harder to improve relations with India, not Pakistan. It could be a valuable ally for decades to come.
 

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I know what you mean -- look what happened in the first 6 years of the Bush administration where the Republicans controlled both the US Congress and Presidency. Absolutely horrible. :shadedshu
There's fine print to that one.

Senate Majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Majority_Leader
January 3, 2001-January 20, 2001: Democrat
January 20, 2001-June 6, 2001: Republican
June 6, 2001–January 3, 2003: Democrat
2003-2007: Republican
2007-Present: Democrat

House Majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leaders_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
1995–2007: Republican
2007-Present: Democrat

So yeah, Republicans controlled all three for about four years. I really don't know what to make of that. Why wasn't the budget balanced? I know Bush approved the budgets pretty much without exception (unless the Democrats through a time table in there) but no one threw a red flag that the government just can't afford some stuff? I think I'm too tired to wrap my head around that one. :shadedshu
 

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I have to take the opposite viewpoint. Education is required to reform the world. Educated people are less likely to commit crimes and are more likely to make better decisions for the betterment of their neighborhood and country. Like it or not wealth, power, and stability come to those with an education much more easily than those without. India is a prime example of this as it is making a rapid transition where more and more people are obtaining an education. Look at the cities where there is a higher percentage of educated people versus the rural areas. Is it fair to say the quality of life is better where there is a higher percentage of people with an education? Is the country as a whole not becoming more competitive worldwide as the quality of the education of the average person increases? Education is the key to ending both poverty and violence.
lol that's not an opposite viewpoint :)

I didn't disagree that education answers a lot of issues, but with the methods these candidates plan to use. You need to induce the temperament kids had back in the 50s. Every kid dreamed to go to the Moon, beat USSR in the race for scientific and technological supremacy. There was so much nationalist sentiment...and what induced it? Education. Kids wanted to pwn eachother in the real world, not Counter Strike. What can induce that sentiment for the second time? Not splashing money into the system, but getting the jobs back to US. Bring your jobs back from Asia, and your kids will have more concrete reasons to educate themselves.
 

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Okay. I misunderstood, sorry about that. I definitely agree completely with what you just said.
 
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Obviously I was talking with proportion to the population.

Ah..but intervention on the scale of playing with the market (increasing number of schools (read: competition), rewarding teachers, etc)?

The "Competition" should exist between individuals, not schools. Look at Singapore. Kids there have access to GTA, internet, TV, toys...but there's essentially a high competitive spirit. Money can't induce that.
Well, Singapore's kids do have access to that stuff, but can the comparisons really go much further than that? We're talking about completely different cultures, different histories, the "underdog" effect, everything.

I saw the debate last night. I'm a simple guy so I'll keep it simple: McCain came off as a complete douche.

I hate how he hides behind a smile and a laugh when putting something obviously dickheadish out there.
Aye -- but someone sure lit a fire up under his ass, didn't they? McCain was actually looking at Obama for once -- instead of calling him "that one" and shaking his hand while looking away somewhere else and not meeting him eye to eye, McCain was actually engaging, addressing the points and problems directly.

Other than that, he blew it, especially with the completely unproven comment of Obama "launching his campaign in Ayers' living room." There's absolutely no proof of that, and McCain knew it, and was thus appropriately punished by the moderator when the next question was given about certain Vice Presidential candidates and their experience and readiness (a question that obviously leans far in Obama's favor). :laugh:

There's fine print to that one.

Senate Majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Majority_Leader
January 3, 2001-January 20, 2001: Democrat
January 20, 2001-June 6, 2001: Republican
June 6, 2001–January 3, 2003: Democrat
2003-2007: Republican
2007-Present: Democrat

House Majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leaders_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
1995–2007: Republican
2007-Present: Democrat

So yeah, Republicans controlled all three for about four years. I really don't know what to make of that. Why wasn't the budget balanced? I know Bush approved the budgets pretty much without exception (unless the Democrats through a time table in there) but no one threw a red flag that the government just can't afford some stuff? I think I'm too tired to wrap my head around that one. :shadedshu
Well, you know what I say to that? (other than that you've got a point)

US Senators are usually so old and conservative about everything that it really doesn't matter what their official party is. :banghead:

They might as well just start calling themselves Republicans. :laugh:
 
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lol that's not an opposite viewpoint :)

I didn't disagree that education answers a lot of issues, but with the methods these candidates plan to use. You need to induce the temperament kids had back in the 50s. Every kid dreamed to go to the Moon, beat USSR in the race for scientific and technological supremacy. There was so much nationalist sentiment...and what induced it? Education. Kids wanted to pwn eachother in the real world, not Counter Strike. What can induce that sentiment for the second time? Not splashing money into the system, but getting the jobs back to US. Bring your jobs back from Asia, and your kids will have more concrete reasons to educate themselves.
OMG -- are you coming out in defense of... nationalism? :twitch: Maybe we should all just get them to start wearing uniforms and march around, and classrooms should be called platoons.

(Just kidding. I know what you mean. :D)
 

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US Senators are usually so old and conservative about everything that it really doesn't matter what their official party is. :banghead:
I can wrap my head around that one and it was demonstrated with the bailout. Senators have some job security being elected for six year terms. The House has just a two year term. Senators represent long term stability in Congress while the House represents more of the short term trends. If someone in the House votes against their constitutes' will, they are likely not to get reelected. If the Senate does the same, something else likely to come along and replace that bad vote.

The Senate was relatively unanimous with the bailout (3/4 approved) because most aren't up for reelection. The House Republicans were hard to convince because a lot are up for reelection. They are not inclined to do something risky and unpopular when they should be campaigning.
 

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OMG -- are you coming out in defense of... nationalism? :twitch: Maybe we should all just get them to start wearing uniforms and march around, and classrooms should be called platoons.

(Just kidding. I know what you mean. :D)
Nationalism doesn't always have something to do with military and geopolitics. If I'm able to keep my country's money inside my country, I will contribute to insuring my descendants' better future, and with them, my country's. If nationalism has to play surrogate mother for these long term plans, so be it.
 
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Nationalism doesn't always have something to do with military and geopolitics. If I'm able to keep my country's money inside my country, I will contribute to insuring my descendants' better future, and with them, my country's. If nationalism has to play surrogate mother for these long term plans, so be it.
...as long as it doesn't get too out of hand. Which it often does.

But aye, I see your point.
 
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The debates were a success, and you're still voting to burn the constitution on the steps of the capital, eh?

Bleh.
If anyone's thrown the constitution out the window, it's the republicans.

Patriot Act? Unlimited wiretapping? Holding prisoners in Guantanamo Bay w/o any due process? I can go on all day...

They'd toss out a woman's right to choose as well if they had the chance. The supreme court has ruled that a woman's right to an abortion is protected by the constitution. Would you have that right removed as well? Who the hell are you (or anyone) to tell a woman what she chooses to do with her own body?
 
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