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Who'll be the better president?

Who'll be the better president?

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 1,290 57.9%
  • John McCain

    Votes: 333 14.9%
  • But I want George W. Bush

    Votes: 177 7.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 429 19.2%

  • Total voters
    2,229
  • Poll closed .
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FordGT90Concept

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Heh, apparently Bigjohn hasn't watched Rohin Hood: Men in Tights. :roll:

I :love: Mel Brooks films.
 

Tatty_Two

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WOW. Its called common knowledge in these parts:wtf:

http://www.guidetorussia.com/russia-afghanistan.asp

Heh, apparently Bigjohn hasn't watched Rohin Hood: Men in Tights. :roll:

I :love: Mel Brooks films.

And by coincidence, Robin Hoods right hand man was called "Little John" :laugh:

Umm -
This shit storm mess was created by jimmy Carter, the democrats, and persisted under clinton, and the fantastic leadership of the Democrat controlled congress....


Lol, so you dont hold any of those Republican Presidents in between partly responsible? Didnt you have 16 unbroken years of Republican rule before Clinton to sort it out then, maybe even get something right...... what were they all doing, learning to read and write or something......now that is really funny :rockout:
 
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Who said he was a communist? He's a socialist running on a progressivism agenda...

Communism <- Socialism <- [Progressivism] <- [Liberalism] <- Capitalism

The Democratic party of the USA was Liberalist until about 1999 when they shifted towards progressivism (Source: Paul Begala, Democratic Strategist). Obama, being about the most left-leaning Senator in the US Senate coupled with his "spread the wealth" statements puts smack-dab on socialist. Even McCain is using the word "socialist" to attack Obama on the issue of taxes now. I don't remember the last time that happened in an election. It's scary...

Oh yeah i totally agree, I dint think he's a comminist or a socialist... It was implied in:

Those who fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

Communism failed last time someone tried, but Obama will be so much better at it? :roll:
 
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http://www.guidetorussia.com/russia-afghanistan.asp



And by coincidence, Robin Hoods right hand man was called "Little John" :laugh:




Lol, so you dont hold any of those Republican Presidents in between partly responsible? Didnt you have 16 unbroken years of Republican rule before Clinton to sort it out then, maybe even get something right...... what were they all doing, learning to read and write or something......now that is really funny :rockout:

they did it was what led to the most profitable period in american history Regan ,Bush, and then Clinton
 
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Here is a "story" to help all understand.

Bob has a good deal of money.... makes MORE than the 250k that obama want's to use as his rape limit... Bob has a nice house, bob has 3 cars and a boat. Let's say that Bob makes, for ease of calculating... 300,000. Under the current tax plan (Bush), Bob's after tax $ is (for round numbers), about 200,000. This is good for bob. Bob hires a gardning service to keep up his lawn. Bob has a detail service come to his house every week and clean his cars, and docks his boat in a slip at the lake. Bob likes to replace his car every 3 years too, and he's investing.

Along comes herr presidente obama...

Bob's income is still 300,000, but herr presidente obama allows the bush tax cuts to expire, remove the cap on social security taxes, and now BOB is taking home about 150,000.

Well, Now, Bob's a calculating man. Bob still wants to save and invest for his future, so he starts looking for ways to save that 50k that the government is now taking from him... so, he stops having his gardener come every week, now only every other week. And he decides to keep his cars for 4 years... and they don't need to be washed but every other week... and that expensive boat slip? Nope. Put the boat on the trailer and haul it back and forth - or just sell it outright... and so on.

How does that HURT the economy? Well, by raping BOB, he can no longer afford to pay Juan the gardener.. Juan just had his income from BOB cut in half. The car dealer will now sell fewer cars to guys like BOB... and the boat slip guy just lost a customer too. Perhaps bob won't remodel the cabinets in his kitchen either... and the carpets can last 'just a while longer'....

you said it yourself, by taking from the rich in the form of tax, benefits are then given to the poor. thus the poor have more money, and instead of bob buying a new car, 100 poor people can now buy a new microwave. as i stated before, this helps to make the Lorenz curve more distributed. I never once said it was fair, however OVERALL it does INCREASE GDP (real growth). Which btw has halved since 2005.

You don't seem to understand that there are good points and bad points about doing things in economics. Everything that you can do will have a negative effect and a positive effects.

(if you do understand then please just say, for me it's late and im tired and sick wit the flu so i may just be misreading things. A lot is lost in translation)
 
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Boston Tea Party was indeed over taxes (as was the Revolutionary War) because of the high tax on tea in the states (and coffee) but it was also taxation without representation. How is it that a king (dictator so to speak) 3000 miles away was taxing us without anyone there to represent our causes/interests. American History is just so awesome.

Clinton was an aweome social and economic president (though he took what the first Bush had and really made the surplus bigger, but the first Bush had a good hand in it). He did alot for jobs, the economy and well being of us (in my eyes, Im not going to argue or debate it) Frankly, I dont care what he did with his tallywhacker as long as my taxes were low, I had a job, etc. He sucked as a military type president. Kosovo, Bosnia, et al not really high points. Yes, he did have intelligence about Bin LAden and what he wanted to do and possibly do, but I believe in a 60 minutes interview, he said he didnt have enough intelligence to go after him, as in where he was. Im not sure about that, you may have to google it. Also, as far as Bin Laden being an ally, eh, its iffy. I mean, we backed him as the lesser of two evils so to speak. The Enemy of my Enemy is my friend as it were. That really back fired on us, the training, weapons, etc. Then turning a blind eye to him :roll:

Bush is probably one of the funniest presidents (Current Bush)we have ever had. Bushisms, I believe its going to make it into the dictionary. Youtube search it (alot of hillarious videos). He pretty much thugged his way into the white house in 2000. Florida, led by his brother, pretty much colluded with him to win. Granted, Im a hell of alot happier that Gore didnt get it, especially with 9/11 but he has really screwed the pooch there.


On to Katrina and New Orleans. I have some personal feelings on it, and I wont go much into detail or do I really think I should have to argue about it. Pretty much, if someone tells you a hurricane is coming and you need to leave in order to survive, and you dont!!!??, dont blame the government. Granted, the S&R and cleanup with FEMA afterwards wasnt what it should have been, alot of their asses shouldnt have been there. Of course Ive heard folks talking about they were poor and couldnt leave, bull crap, Id have walked my ass out of there. THey could have gotten a ride or what have you. ITs a tragedy alot of lives were loss but I dont think blaming a President for not forcing them to leave is justified.


As far as the two current candidates, OBama is a bit towards socialism, but not communism. I dont see him having the government set and control everything. McCain is a maverick but looks like a deer caught in the headlights sometimes. I understand OBama gets on his nerves with his waffling and flip flopping (that is not to say McCain doesnt do a little of it himself). Not to mention Biden is probably the worst person he could have chose for a VP. Hes about as Bushisms as Bush is. I also like how he lies about not going against OBama on key issues in the primary and then now he is for them. My biggest fear is that if McCain gets it, he wont live long enough to fulfill the 4 years. Im not so worried about Palin (because perhaps LESS experience is needed in Washington)

Im sure I had more to say here, but after reading 35 posts, it all gets blurred. Ill post more later. Im also a little fuzzy on some history so forgive me for that. Oh, BTW, how could you not like the GREENBACK party!?!?!?
 

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you said it yourself, by taking from the rich in the form of tax, benefits are then given to the poor. thus the poor have more money, and instead of bob buying a new car, 100 poor people can now buy a new microwave. as i stated before, this helps to make the Lorenz curve more distributed. I never once said it was fair, however OVERALL it does INCREASE GDP (real growth). Which btw has halved since 2005.
That does nothing more than suggest that the recession started in 2006 at some time.

There is little to no connection between the "Lorenz curve" and GDP.
 
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http://www.guidetorussia.com/russia-afghanistan.asp



And by coincidence, Robin Hoods right hand man was called "Little John" :laugh:
Yep. I have seen "men in tights", think it's a damn funny movie. The fact that I enjoy the story and the action, the common man fighting opression, does not mean I'm supporting communism or socialism or progressivism or whatever "ISM" you want to put on the fact that THOSE THINGS I EARN ARE NOT SOMEONE ELSES TO TAKE by proxy of some government who assumes they know better than I what to do with my stuff.

Lol, so you dont hold any of those Republican Presidents in between partly responsible? Didnt you have 16 unbroken years of Republican rule before Clinton to sort it out then, maybe even get something right...... what were they all doing, learning to read and write or something......now that is really funny :rockout:

Presidents don't "RULE" they have the power to veto what congress passes, suggest a budget, stuff like that.

** 2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

** 2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

** 2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

** 2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

** 2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

** 2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

** 2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

In 2005-- Senator John McCain partnered with three other Senate Republicans to reform the government’s involvement in lending.
Democrats blocked this reform, too.​
Congress is in charge... The HOUSE passes appropriations bills, which have to pass the senate too...

watch the videos. They tell the story of what the democrats did, and above I've pasted what BUSH and his fellow republicans tried to do about reform over the past 8 years.
 
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@whitelotus....

WHen government gets involved, BOB's new car (which was the product of the labor of many people in a factory, who, when people stop buying cars LOOSE THEIR JOBS and probably don't need a microwave...) looses 20% or more of it's value in the bureacracy... Medicare and Medicade loose BILLIONS in FRAUD each year, on top of their own overhead....
 

Tatty_Two

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they did it was what led to the most profitable period in american history Regan ,Bush, and then Clinton

Thank you Tom, at least you added Clinton, despite your political "sway" which was my point, as I said earlier, I from across the pond, liked much of what I saw from Regan, I liked some of what I saw from Bush Senior and I liked a little of what I saw from Clinton (I particularily liked the fact that he was aware there was a whole world out there and without them his own country couldnt survive), Regan too had a very good eye for foreign policies, in Europe in particular, well thats the feeling from this direction, I think the main thing here is, we across the pond are perhaps a little ignorant to the real issues within the US, we often just gets snapshots of various policies etc and thats only part of the story but as I have said countless times, I have only said what I perceive from the limited info we get, some people just choose to ignore everything unless it suits their argument, thank god their not in politics or leaders of people, can you imagine that kind of style in the Police Department or Armed Forces :eek:
 

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Yep. I have seen "men in tights", think it's a damn funny movie. The fact that I enjoy the story and the action, the common man fighting opression, does not mean I'm supporting communism or socialism or progressivism or whatever "ISM" you want to put on the fact that THOSE THINGS I EARN ARE NOT SOMEONE ELSES TO TAKE by proxy of some government who assumes they know better than I what to do with my stuff.



Presidents don't "RULE" they have the power to veto what congress passes, suggest a budget, stuff like that.


Congress is in charge... The HOUSE passes appropriations bills, which have to pass the senate too...

watch the videos. They tell the story of what the democrats did, and above I've pasted what BUSH and his fellow republicans tried to do about reform over the past 8 years.

Yep, but a strong and successful President quite often tends to have the houses behind him and quite often has the majority, if I remember rightly, in the early part of GWB's Presidency he had the majority, then he didnt.......possibly because people were losing faith in his leadership and therefore more democtats got seats in the impending elections (personally I thought he was inept from the first day I saw him talk publically) ...thats not a political statement but a personal one, as I have said before, I have no party political sway whatsoever.

I continue to find it strange, that you make earlier statements about how it has taken GWB 8 years to clear up Clinton's mess but you really do think that Clinton didnt have to spend some of his 8 years clearing Bush Seniors mess, you clearly are biased and sadly that bias is dragging you away from reality (or at least it appears to), you see, you have made loads of very useful posts, filled with facts, you clearly are not stupid but most of those are hand picked to support your arguments, therefore they are biased and as soon as someone shows bias no matter how accurate their facts are.....some people stop listening!

Now, because of that, if I want to get an accurate picture of what is happening which is the only reason I am here, I have to ignore a lot of what you write simply because I know it's biased and therefore it wont give me the true picture.
 
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Wow, so many questions -- Sunni or Shia? Do you like Saudi Arabia or Iran better?

Since we're all tired of talking about the US election, might as well talk about this.


dumm , why everyone ask this question , im just Iraqi citizen , i believe in god right but keep other things away from my mind and focus on develop my knowledge and dream in peace live,
and i want to explain to the (Sunni or Shia) protocol ,
1- iran put terrorist's using Shia name
2- Saudi Arabia and Syria put also terrorist's using Sunni name
3- i am want to be lie booth sides take some iraqi's to support them using crazy money
4-the terrorist's split the city's to Shia city's and sunni's city's using kill force
5- only citizen's people killed
6- f**k in iran , Saudi Arabia ,Syria , and Jordan too cuz they have hidden hand too
7- any other question or more explain about anything im ready
 
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God bless you and those of you in your country who want peace.

But Obama would pack up the coaliition troops and leave you all to your own, to fight Al Qaida alone. To fight the war-lords... alone.

At least John McCain has the courage to tell the american people that, even though it's NOT POPULAR, it's still important to help Iraq get their country back on it's feet.

Obama was against the "surge", as we call it here - the recent actions to root out insurgents in Iraq... but now he must admit that it worked. Iraq grows safer and more stable every day, thanks in great part to people like you. And of course thanks to our brave American men and women who are risking their lives voluntarily over there.

sure we need U.S forces still right now until iraqi forces can handle up , im sure obama think same , cuz if U.S forces go now the iraq will be really died
 
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@whitelotus....

WHen government gets involved, BOB's new car (which was the product of the labor of many people in a factory, who, when people stop buying cars LOOSE THEIR JOBS and probably don't need a microwave...) looses 20% or more of it's value in the bureacracy... Medicare and Medicade loose BILLIONS in FRAUD each year, on top of their own overhead....

to be honest with you. When it comes to economics i prefer the Government to just leave it alone and not get involved. The laissez-faire approach works best in my opinion (i do agree that sometimes artificial power have to come in from time to time), just let the invisible free hand correct the market and allow it to grow.
 

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sure we need U.S forces still right now until iraqi forces can handle up , im sure obama think same , cuz if U.S forces go now the iraq will be really died
The problem is that Obama thinks Congress can and should set deadlines--that is fundamentally incorrect. Those decisions are made between the generals, Iraqi leadership, and the President. Right now, the Bush administration is working with the Iraqis to set up draw-down terms through 2011. Obviously it is not as rapid nor as strict as the Democrats would like but in war, the enemy decides your actions when on defense.


to be honest with you. When it comes to economics i prefer the Government to just leave it alone and not get involved. The laissez-faire approach works best in my opinion (i do agree that sometimes artificial power have to come in from time to time), just let the invisible free hand correct the market and allow it to grow.
I mostly agree. The problem is things like sub-prime security trading. There should be a single body ruling over the Federal Reserve, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Wall Street, and everything else that involves physical and virtual money that decides what practices are legal or not. In the case of the sub-prime security trading, they would look at it and say, "these are too exotic and it is too difficulty to keep track of ownership and associated risks." From that, they would ban the practice and this whole situation would have never happened in the first place. I mean, the whole reason why it blew up is because banks were trading securities not knowing how much they are actually worth. The startling thing is no one involved really cared because the worst that could happen is they declare bankruptcy...

Anywho, I'm all for laissez-faire but as demonstrated, people involved care more about their own pocket books than stability. There's something about the Chicago markets and SEC arguing over who has control of crop futures too... The lack of strong oversight is not just in the sub-prime sector.
 

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One thing I want to point out or ask about is, the bailout bills? US Government gives AIG and some others $700 Billion to help them out, they go to a resort and waste like 750,000??? Now they ask for another $38 Billion???!?! Thoughts and comments please...
 
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Thank you Tom, at least you added Clinton, despite your political "sway" which was my point, as I said earlier, I from across the pond, liked much of what I saw from Regan, I liked some of what I saw from Bush Senior and I liked a little of what I saw from Clinton (I particularly liked the fact that he was aware there was a whole world out there and without them his own country couldn't survive), Regan too had a very good eye for foreign policies, in Europe in particular, well thats the feeling from this direction, I think the main thing here is, we across the pond are perhaps a little ignorant to the real issues within the US, we often just gets snapshots of various policies etc and thats only part of the story but as I have said countless times, I have only said what I perceive from the limited info we get, some people just choose to ignore everything unless it suits their argument, thank god their not in politics or leaders of people, can you imagine that kind of style in the Police Department or Armed Forces :eek:

Well I didn't like some of the things Bill Clinton did but most of the things hes accomplished were very good for the USA. I think I would like him allot if he was my neighbor, and history will tell but I think he is one of the best presidents we have had. However , as unpopular as that may seem to some I will one up that . Watch and see, with all the attacks, and difficulties we have had in the last 8 years, history will say that G.W was also one of the best presidents we could have had at a time when thing were very bad for the USA. At least hes held it all together thought several terrorist attacks and now a terrible banking crisis that several presidents of the USA and Europe are responsible for you have to admit hes been on it ever since it happened calling meeting and not giving up as most lame duck presidents with less than 3 months would do.Some nights hes been in meeting with world leaders all night trying to fix this mess. Heck hes even met with Bill Clinton and several other presidents asking for their impute. No matter what you say about G.W he doesn't give up and when he says he will do something you better believe he will just ask Saddam,Qadhifi, Kim John Ill, Bashar al-Assad or any other despot around the world. I believe Lybia gave up it nuclear weapons program (because of Saddam's fall) , North Korea just did aswell and Syria left Lebanon because of the USA army led by a Lebanese born ( General Walid Abaza ) in Iraq and Lebanon is now free. Most of all one of the worlds worst terrorist and genicidest is dead and hes country is free (IRAQ) and Afghanistan is free and Osama bin Laden is in a cave being pummeled by his one time Allies the Pakistani Army. All of this was because G.W. with the help of his Allie Tony Blair didn't give up and stuck to what they believed in.
 
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One thing I want to point out or ask about is, the bailout bills? US Government gives AIG and some others $700 Billion to help them out, they go to a resort and waste like 750,000??? Now they ask for another $38 Billion???!?! Thoughts and comments please...
My hope is that fire everyone involved (the people that authorized, organized, and participated) just to send them a message that you do not waste tax payer money. No one, I mean, NO ONE, deserves perks when they only still exist because the federal government decided their failure is unacceptable.

And this second economic stimulus package? Give me a freakin' break. The last thing we need now is a dollar with no value in international markets and that is EXACTLY what the Democrats want to do. :banghead: Just look how well the last one worked out. :shadedshu
 
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I was referring to the "Bill Clinton knew where Osama slept comment" which is opinion. No data shows this. I was aware of the war with the soviets connection. For a moderator you are going pretty far in the insult category.

The most deadly armament we gave them were the shoulder fired stinger missles. Those require maintenance and they had no engineers to do the maintenance at the time anyway(surpassing its projected shelf life of two to three years).
 
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But if that footage is real and the intelligence was correct you must wonder why the CIA didn't take him out. The CIA doesn't wait for opproval from the president. They would only need approval for killing a "head of state". So why didn't they do it if they knew it was good intelligence? They probably didn't know for sure. Same with when GW Bush had what he thought was a fixed location on where Osama was right after 9/11 where Army rangers were ready to move in on the position. The only problem is that the military really does have to wait for approval from the president outside of the rules of engagement.
 

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Read the whole thing...

The orders to the military (from Clinton) was to capture, not kill. It's pretty hard for a Predator flying 10s of thousands of feet in the sky to capture someone...
 
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Read the whole thing...

The orders to the military (from Clinton) was to capture, not kill. It's pretty hard for a Predator flying 10s of thousands of feet in the sky to capture someone...

Gary Schroen, a former CIA station chief in Pakistan, says the White House required the CIA to attempt to capture bin Laden alive, rather than kill him.

Catching him alive isn't a bad proposition if its true as the article suggests. So catching him was on the menu. That would have been effective in discovering all the camps after the CIA tortured him.:D

Also finding the terrorist cells to prevent 9/11. So catching him wasn't a bad idea. To bad they didn't catch him though. ;)
 

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Once you chop off the head of a snake, the body withers and dies. The only way to "capture" him would have been to invade Afghanistan/Pakistan back in the 1990's which was unacceptable. Besides, Clinton was at war with his wife and the public--he couldn't handle another war at the same time. :p

If we had enough forces on the ground to capture bin Laden, the entire region would have imploded. They should have launched a cruise missile at him and have the Predator verify the target was eliminated. The news from the region would have been touting bin Laden as a "martyr" for positive ID he was killed.

Torture never produces good intelligence.
 
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Once you chop off the head of a snake, the body withers and dies. The only way to "capture" him would have been to invade Afghanistan/Pakistan back in the 1990's which was unacceptable. Besides, Clinton was at war with his wife and the public and busy bombing Serbia--he couldn't handle another war at the same time. :p

:toast:. God forbid he would go out of his way to catch Bin Laden. But on the flipside, i dont think Bin Laden is special - we kill him, and 5 more of him are going to come out of the woodwork.
 
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