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Who's Curious To See If Sony Unveils The PS4?

cadaveca

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#76
I based my comments off of what developers like Carmack have been saying for months and add that to the leaked specs it doesnt take a genius to see that these consoles were gonna suck. I said a while back DO NOT EXPECT A MASSIVE JUMP in graphics.......why? Because both camps said so. You just have to look around and all you wanna know is already said.......you just have to read between the lines.
 
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#78
Midrange AMD (x86) CPU apparently, and a GPU comparable to the GTX 660, and 8GB RAM.
 

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#79
I based my comments off of what developers like Carmack have been saying for months and add that to the leaked specs it doesnt take a genius to see that these consoles were gonna suck. I said a while back DO NOT EXPECT A MASSIVE JUMP in graphics.......why? Because both camps said so. You just have to look around and all you wanna know is already said.......you just have to read between the lines.
It's hard to ignore the many many many times rumored specs have been discussed. Everyone pretty much knows and have known what this is about. No reading between the lines was or is necessary. It's obvious.
 
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#81
My hunch is Project CARS is being made too small niche to ever get out of what they're putting into it. By that I mean they really should have offered effective enough driving assists to be playable on any control device like the Shift series is, including Keyboards.
 
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#82
It's hard to ignore the many many many times rumored specs have been discussed. Everyone pretty much knows and have known what this is about. No reading between the lines was or is necessary. It's obvious.
I'm talking about developer commentary on the development kits. The rumored specs on TPU were just the icing on the cake for me. Once Dave told me about the horse power in those rumors my suspicions were validated. The developer comments......THOSE are the lines I was referring too. They have been talking about it for MONTHS even before the specs were leaked.
 

cadaveca

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#83
I'm talking about developer commentary on the development kits. The rumored specs on TPU were just the icing on the cake for me. Once Dave told me about the horse power in those rumors my suspicions were validated. The developer comments......THOSE are the lines I was referring too. They have been talking about it for MONTHS even before the specs were leaked.
What I don't think many understand is that the use of GDDR5 as the main system ram, and the ability to easily port off compute tasks to the GPU(the million-object demo), allows these consoles to actually greatly surpass anything in the PC desktop space, and as such, devs would have to PORT DOWN to PC, giving the PC less features due to a lack of system bandwidth.:p

There is very much a lot of strength to the whole "The PC is Dead" thing, just not exactly in the way I think most would interpret that. However, the archaic design of CPU/GPU/RAM with chipset between is very much dead.

I've been talking about having the GPU as the main thing for a motherboard, instead of a CPU, for years, here on the forums. You're right that you need to read between the lines, but you still have to be wary of what's been planted there too. I had "The Future is Fusion" along with AMD's campaign, back when NOBODY was really talking about APUs..for good reason.


Spec's and what not aren't new news, at all. It even makes more sense that what dev's have is a cut-down or lower-power version of what the console would get, just because that's Sony's style.

:roll:
 
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#84
Sounds like amd's is going to come out of all this pretty well optimized
 

cadaveca

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#85
Sounds like amd's is going to come out of all this pretty well optimized
From my perspective, this is 10+ years in the making, so I bloody hope so. It's why AMD bought ATI in the first place. Knowing what that generation of consoles was, and what would be needed for the next gen, this was decided way back then. The products we get today are all due to that deal, and it should ensure that AMD remains a big part of the industry for some time too.

It's why Larrabee was silly(100 cores, whut, AMD has over 1000), why Intel is dropping out of the PC market and why Nvidia is "moving into smartphones". For the next 7-10 years, programmers will be working on AMD hardware. NVidia and the PC market will be nothing but a nuisance, as they kind of are now.


But this is all old news...

BTW, Kaveri should bring similar tech to the desktop space, with truly shared CPU/GPU memory. So porting won't really be that bad.. just bad for current hardware. :p
 
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#86
Spec's and what not aren't new news, at all. It even makes more sense that what dev's have is a cut-down or lower-power version of what the console would get, just because that's Sony's style.
From my understanding they have been 3 dev kits sent out and the final one will be delivered by summer.

It's always been like that from what i remember when i actually followed the console news. They get a dev kit to developers within a 2yr window frame of launch and start sending them closer to final product devs by 1yr to a few months of retail.

First wave of games are already been developed from dev kits 1 or 2 and usually are available at release or soon there after. Takes 1yr or 2 to start seeing good titles that take advantage of the hardware.

Most of the console games I asume will be catered to 1080p since thats TV standard. Last gen X-Box and PS3 advertised 1080p but very few titles ended up as 1080p and then those that did a handful only ran well at that. 720p ended up the standard for those so this is the next logical step

It be silly to aim at anything above 1080p for consoles. Just doesnt make sense but I dont want to read between the lines I'm lazy.

I still like Killzone. I want to be hanging by the rope of the aircraft while shooting the guys in it. Phew, phew...(Hope thats still legal to make imaginary gun noises)

No reading between the lines, those are just spaces.:)
 
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#87
Steambox for me.

Wait, I already have one of those.

Video card for me!
 
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#88
What I don't think many understand is that the use of GDDR5 as the main system ram, and the ability to easily port off compute tasks to the GPU(the million-object demo), allows these consoles to actually greatly surpass anything in the PC desktop space, and as such, devs would have to PORT DOWN to PC, giving the PC less features due to a lack of system bandwidth.:p:
Well I can't argue any of that other stuff but I can say I saw NOTHING tonight in that demo that couldn't be done and has been done better on a PC graphically.
 

T4C Fantasy

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#89
Well I can't argue any of that other stuff but I can say I saw NOTHING tonight in that demo that couldn't be done and has been done better on a PC graphically.
doesn't matter, ill be getting a ps4 just to have it like I did for the ps3, my main games will be final fantasy~~~ and gt6 and up
 

cadaveca

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#90
Well I can't argue any of that other stuff but I can say I saw NOTHING tonight in that demo that couldn't be done and has been done better on a PC graphically.
Except for the physics. It's not used that much in current games, is it? Care to guess why?

And sure, graphics aren't that amazing...yet. It's still early days. Most of that should have been realtime, rather than CG like past generations. PC will always have early hardware compared to consoles...it just may not be able to properly use it. And this time, really, what the consoles have isn't out yet. 128-bit CPUs? Where? Jaguar is 128-bit.
 

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#91
Except for the physics. It's not used that much in current games, is it? Care to guess why?

And sure, graphics aren't that amazing...yet. It's still early days. Most of that should have been realtime, rather than CG like past generations. PC will always have early hardware compared to consoles...it just may not be able to properly use it. And this time, really, what the consoles have isn't out yet. 128-bit CPUs? Where? Jaguar is 128-bit.
128-bit? Jesus so AMD is again ahead of Intel in the bits(well successfully). First it was 64 bit. Now its 128 bit!
 
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#93
My hunch is Project CARS is being made too small niche to ever get out of what they're putting into it. By that I mean they really should have offered effective enough driving assists to be playable on any control device like the Shift series is, including Keyboards.

There are driving assists, keyboard support, pad support to make it accessible to most people. I actually use a DFGT and a 360 pad with pCARS and most sims. But refining the keyboard and pad filters won't be done until the tire and physic model are complete and the cars are correctly balanced. Assetto Corsa is also supporting assists and pad support, the tech preview is said to be released very soon.

Also about pCARS being closed now, from day 1 it was said that once founding was complete the membership will be closed, i made 2 threads here in TPU explaining this. And to be honest there are enough people right now to test the alpha builds, there are more 80000 members and 14000 active ones.
Membership will be open from time to time, i´ll let you know in this thread http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166953
 
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#94
It's why Larrabee was silly(100 cores, whut, AMD has over 1000), why Intel is dropping out of the PC market and why Nvidia is "moving into smartphones". For the next 7-10 years, programmers will be working on AMD hardware. NVidia and the PC market will be nothing but a nuisance, as they kind of are now.
Larrabee was silly, but the fruits of it (newer Intel graphics) was definitely worth the research money imo.
 
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#95
This APU gets me really exited; like Dave also said, its the first truely heterogeneous processor out there, with loads of bandwith and tons of calculating power, and for the first time, developers will be able to effectively use it.

Why?

Compare it to your PC; It might have a stronger CPU, and it might have a stronger GPU, and it might even have more Bandwith in total. But thats not where the true strenght of this new chip lies.
Its in the fact that both CPU and GPU share the same (big)memory space and are connected with really low latency. This means that developers can effectively distribute computing tasks across both the CPU and GPU parts, without having to worry about things slowing down tremendously because of the latency from things like PCI-E and the copying of data between the two pools of RAM.

Sure, in the end PC's can probably still deliver the best graphics possible, because there is no way a console can cost-effectively compete against the brute power you can stuff into a PC. But if you want to make really revolutionary games, with stuff like real world physics, AI with actual depth and truely immersive gameplay, at the moment PC's dont stand a chance in their current form-factor.

Edit:
Larrabee was silly, but the fruits of it (newer Intel graphics) was definitely worth the research money imo.
I thought Xeon Phi was the current larrabee? Iirc Intel has been quite succesful at marketing it as a scientific co-processor.Source
 
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#96
We dont care if the PS4 has a high end CPU or GPU. All we care about is that it has 8 core CPU, thus allowing all developers to use multiple cores when developing their game which means that console ports will use our CPUs better than they do now, 8GB of ram which allows for alot of data to flow, 64bit CPU architecture, and not 32bit again, and a GPU using DX11 and able to support all modern techniques.

It doesnt matter if the PS4 hardware is high end or mid end. By the time it is released and games on it are well optimised it will be a low end console already. But thats ok for the same reason as the PS3, its only 1 config and the dev all focus on using it as much as possible.

The PC community is a winner out of this, because the current standards (that we have on PC for several years already) are adopted by popular consoles finally. We will certainly see an improvement on PC gaming out of this, since EVERYONE will now use multi-core, 64bit and DX11 as a baseline.
 
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#97
I dislike the look of that controller. Why touchpad? What possible improvements could that bring over two simple buttons?
 

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#98
since EVERYONE will now use multi-core, 64bit and DX11 as a baseline.
I've yet to see anywhere that Sony is planning on using DirectX. This thing won't be running Windows so I find it hard to believe that Microsoft is going to make it easy for them to use it (considering MS has the Xbox that rivals with Sony.) It makes a lot more sense to see a *nix based platform using OpenGL and OpenCL more than anything else. Open standards are free which will save Sony money while keeping game code relatively portable.

OpenGL is not bad, it's just as capable as DX is, if not more if you take into account what platforms can use OpenGL versus what platforms use DirectX. I don't think they would put OpenGL on phones if it was slow and clunky.
 
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#99
I've yet to see anywhere that Sony is planning on using DirectX. This thing won't be running Windows so I find it hard to believe that Microsoft is going to make it easy for them to use it (considering MS has the Xbox that rivals with Sony.) It makes a lot more sense to see a *nix based platform using OpenGL and OpenCL more than anything else. Open standards are free which will save Sony money while keeping game code relatively portable.

OpenGL is not bad, it's just as capable as DX is, if not more if you take into account what platforms can use OpenGL versus what platforms use DirectX. I don't think they would put OpenGL on phones if it was slow and clunky.
Yeah my point was that the console can produce DX11-quality games. Of course you are right it will use OpenGL or similar and I've seen games and benchmarks based on Unigine doing the same job on OpenGL and DX11 with main difference being (maybe?) tesselation. In fact its funny how quickly OpenGL performance has improved with recent gen desktop GPUs.
 

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n fact its funny how quickly OpenGL performance has improved with recent gen desktop GPUs.
OpenGL performance has never really been that bad. Just since DX came out, game developers started using it because it was easier to code and it offered a lot of libraries to make your life easier. OpenGL is closer to the hardware than DX and requires a little more TLC when it comes to developing an application on it, but considering it's used on smartphones, I think it's safe to assume it's pretty efficient at what it does. Also consider Steam on Linux and the performance of the various games that have been ported. They are pretty impressive versus their Windows counterparts.