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Why are some people still saying a 4-thread i5 is good enough with a beefy GPU...

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it's only enough if you use programs that dont use more than 4 threads.
Programs aren't written to use X amount of cores, they are usually written to scale dynamically according to the number of threads available.

Let's put an end to this myth that "programs/games don't use more than 4 cores" or whatever , OK ? It's a meaningless statement or inaccurate at best. There are only two groups, the programs that use multiple threads and the ones don't, of the latter there aren't many left out there if any that aren't multithreaded.
 
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Programs aren't written to use X amount of cores, they are usually written to scale dynamically according to the number of threads available.

Let's put an end to this myth that "programs/games don't use more than 4 cores" or whatever , OK ? It's a meaningless statement or inaccurate at best. There are only two groups, the programs that use multiple threads and the ones don't, of the latter there aren't many left out there if any that aren't multithreaded.
Correct me if Im wrong, isnt Havoc Physics dedicated a cpu core seperate from the game engine?
 
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Correct me if Im wrong, isnt Havoc Physics dedicated a cpu core seperate from the game engine?
I have no idea how Havoc is written but it would be pretty stupid if it was just single threaded which I really doubt, the sort of computation needed for physics can be parallelized. It also can't really be separated from the game engine, I don't know how that would work, the physics have to be tied with the game logic.
 
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I have no idea how Havoc is written but it would be pretty stupid if it was just single threaded which I really doubt, the sort of computation needed for physics can be parallelized. It also can't really be separated from the game engine, I don't know how that would work, the physics have to be tied with the game logic.
WellnI dont know but figured to ask the question while a lot of Havoc titles can utilize more than a single core which is all a game engine really needs.
The Source engine like half life 2 used software physics as well but would only utilize a single core for main processing.

NVidia Physx uses the main gpu or use a secondary for physx. This processing is seperate from a cpu core.

Does seem like you could run parts of the program dedicated to a seperate thread/core while being controlled by the game engine.
Disaimer
This is my take on it. By no means do I write games lol
 
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I'm perfectly happy with my 4690K overclocked to 4.4ghz and happy playing all my games at 2k 72fps.

Don't care for most of the new so called AAA games because most i have played and they ain't that great to be honest.
Hubby is using my old system OCed to 4.2 ghz i3570k and it's doing ok. :)
 
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i5 2400 is good 20-60% usage. Low temperatures and power.
 
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I had an i5-7600K @ 4.7GHz last year and it felt slow. i7-7700K @ 5GHz fixed that problem.

e: And I had a GTX 980 @ 1500/2000, not even a blazing fast card.
 
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I think it's,to a large extent,because people who run those 4c/4t cpus have much experience with neither fast gpus nor many modern games.
there's a lot of games where a 6600 can push a 1080ti fine,but modern triple a games - I don't think it'll manage 60 in most.

what I really don't understand is people saying you're fine with a slow cpu paired with a fast gpu as long as you're playing 4k.probably the dumbest thing I hear around here.
if it struggles to hit 50 fps ay 1080p it'll struggle at 4K.
 
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I'm going to add my $0.02 in here. I had a i5 6500 paired with a GTX 1080ti for about 9 months and it was a bigger bottle neck than I realized at 4k even, look at the scores I posted in the FFXV bench thread. It also was holding me back big time in some games like rimworld.
 
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Nothing wong with a quad i5 as long as the game doesnt scale past the 4 cores.

I mean we are talking about good enough, not OMG overkill here.

So.... Whos got the game list that has games that scales past 4 cores? This would be a good enough thread to post it in!!
Most games today actually do scale past 4 cores. Any UE4 game already does, as will any Source 2 game. Unity supports it. CryEngine has been doing it since Crysis 3. CDPR's engines do it. CA's Total War engines do it. I mean... this is common knowledge by now and anyone who uses RTSS in-game can see it confirmed right in front of their eyes...

Now, do those extra threads and cores scale linearly? No, of course not. There is a sweet spot for CPU performance and the quad was long in it. Today, and since 2017-ish, the sweet spot has moved towards 6c/6t and in some cases to 4c/8t... now, this might be a shocking revelation, but there is a good chance you may need 6c12t sooner rather than later, or 8c8t.

What matters is whether 4 cores can sustain stable frametimes, and while in many games and engines they can, there are still moments where they struggle. Those are picked up as stutter. The misconception about quads today is looking at FPS numbers without a graph or frametime variance. Thát is where they fall short.



And just to clarify why I'm so anal about this difference... here and elsewhere. People come to TPU for good (in-depth?) advice on what they want to purchase. If people needed blanket statements they only ever needed to open Youtube and type the 'GPU bench' for whatever they seek to buy. We don't help anyone by repeating those blanket statements. We dó help people by showing them where the potential problems are going to be, you know, to get the most out of a purchase. And buying into badly balanced setups, in that sense, is bad advice.
 
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Most games today actually do scale past 4 cores. Any UE4 game already does, as will any Source 2 game. Unity supports it. CryEngine has been doing it since Crysis 3. CDPR's engines do it. CA's Total War engines do it. I mean... this is common knowledge by now and anyone who uses RTSS in-game can see it confirmed right in front of their eyes...

Now, do those extra threads and cores scale linearly? No, of course not. There is a sweet spot for CPU performance and the quad was long in it. Today, and since 2017-ish, the sweet spot has moved towards 6c/6t and in some cases to 4c/8t... now, this might be a shocking revelation, but there is a good chance you may need 6c12t sooner rather than later, or 8c8t.

What matters is whether 4 cores can sustain stable frametimes, and while in many games and engines they can, there are still moments where they struggle. Those are picked up as stutter. The misconception about quads today is looking at FPS numbers without a graph or frametime variance. Thát is where they fall short.

I think the problem is from 2010-2017 a 4 core 4 thread was more than enough for gaming beating 6 core 12 thread cpu's now even the Ryzen 1600 is a substantially better choice in modern games. People unfortunately have a hard time letting go.


 
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Hubby is using my old system OCed to 4.2 ghz i3570k and it's doing ok. :)
I had the exact same setup stuttering like nobodies business :D FPS was good! Frametimes were all over the place
 
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Exactly, my current Ryzen 5 2600 & R9 290 beats the crap out of that i5-7600K & GTX 980 setup which I had 1½ years ago.

e: Vayra managed to ninjapost :D my reply was for @oxrufiioxo
 
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Her'e a video with RTSS showing usage with a 18 core cpu with jedi fallen order, it was posted on another forum I was discussing core count and current AAA titles, So some things scale and scale well too.
 
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I had 4c4t until this year. Core i5 2400 with first GTX 560 Ti and then RX 470 since last December. Until September when I built my Ryzen system, I couldn't dare play any modern games. Stutter because of 100% cpu usage, random texture pop ins and bottlenecking a mid range GPU was tge biggest issues I had.

I originally planned to choose between i5 9600k + z390 and R5 3600/3600x + B450 systems. Ultimately the compare videos on YT helped me push towards Ryzen. Even while OC'd 9600K was pushing more frames per average than 3600/X, the newer games were already pushing the Intel to 80-90% utilisation. Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield V and the newer Assassin's Creed games to name a few.
 
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IMO it's not good enough anymore for gaming, especially for the latest AAA titles, and even some from years ago.
High fps AAA gaming? You can just forget about that with a 4-core i5.
I didnt read past this post for now....

A quad core cpu will hold back several modern titles compared to a higher core count cpu. Are fps still playable, more than likely depending on the title and gpu. But the OP has specifically mentioned AAA and High Hz gaming (which so many of you missed). If you want to remove the glass ceiling and stuttering on some titles (more every month) you need more than 4c/4t... it really is that simple.

Edit: Read the thread...wow. I dont give a hoot what you do to a damn Corolla, its still a friggin Corolla. Same here peeps.. 4c/4t is 4c/4t.. clocks wont help much. If a game needs more c/t and your system doesnt have it, fps and gameplay can suffer. How much really depends on the title.

That's your opinion but looking at benchmarks for virtually all non-cowboy AAA 2019 games I see quad cores are still capable of producing playable results at 1080p 60fps.
You (and those who thanked you...and others making a similar point previously in this thread...) are aware the post you quoted specifically (and the words in the first post) said high hz gaming in AAA titles, right? Not 1080p 60? So that wasn't in question in the first place. ;)
 
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Seems like quads are still okay. Like, if you were scrounging together a "just get it working" machine or maybe you're sitting on a quad core machine that you don't want to upgrade, you still have time.

But somehow I really doubt that will hold so true a couple of years from now. To put a quad core in a new gaming machine that you wanna get some years out of just seems questionable to me. It's definitely fine for now. I understand if you're not an enthusiast or whatever and you're looking to spend the minimum you can on a budget gaming setup. But even so, it's going to cost you some good money. The savings difference, to me, isn't enough to offset the fact that you are buying into something that's kind of on its way out. You're jumping on a part that's already starting to lag behind the rest and will only be less suitable as time goes by, and as things are already, it's not going to offer consistent performance from game to game. I don't buy the "It's about the games you play." I just think if you're going to build a gaming rig, you want it to be able to run ALL games well. And besides, how are you gonna know what games you might want to play next year? What if a CPU-heavy AAA title comes out that you really want to play, but the experience suffers as it brings your "good enough" quad-core to its knees? Doesn't matter that you don't usually play those kinds of games. You never know. It's a sad day when you're excited to play this new game, you buy it, fire it up, and are greeted with terrible stutter no matter what you do with your settings.

That's the other thing I find generally true with CPU requirements for games. You can't always do so much to offset it by changing graphical settings, as most of that stuff is now handled by the GPU. It's not always the case that you can ride-out settings tweaks like is often done to keep an old GPU going with new games. The CPU demands are more static. Unless you have a setting that lowers polygon counts, AI actors, or whatever... your CPU is up to what it is up to. CPU bottlenecks are nasty business. If the game needs the threads, it has to have them.

Enthusiast or not, a gaming rig is an extravagant purchase. Hell, I'd argue that if you're spending money on a gaming PC instead of a console, you're already an enthusiast. You buy the PC instead of the console because you want to take things to the next level. Otherwise, you wouldn't even be considering it. You don't need any of it. So my mindset is that if you're gonna spend the money, get as much performance as you can for the money. Just spend the cash. Save up if you gotta. Better to have a machine that's sometimes a little overkill, but always capable than one that in a couple of years is no longer cutting it. Now, if you want to upgrade, you're probably out more money than if you had just paid up for a little more than the bear-minimum standard. I don't see how that could be worth it.

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. Future-proofing is one thing... you can't win that game. But you can make some reasonable assumptions about the future value and viability of a part. My instinct with PC building is to never buy the bear minimum, because it doesn't take an expert to tell you that the bear minimum today is becoming obsolete tomorrow. If it's juuuust good enough today that's great, but where does it go from there? There's going overboard with insane parts, and then there's building a machine from tie-overs. If you like playing games and that's something you're gonna be doing for the foreseeable future, you don't want the tie-over.

I can't see myself ever recommending a cheap quad to someone looking to buy a high-end GPU. I guess if you wanna go cheap all around, that's fine. I still wouldn't recommend it but you could pair a CPU like that with an entry-level or midrange card and that just makes sense. But if you're going to toss almost $1000 at a GPU and then ~$100 a CPU, I really don't understand you at all. I understand money is what it is and maybe that's all you can swing. But if you can save that kind of cash for a GPU and everything else on the rig, why wouldn't you save another hundred bucks and get a 6 or even an 8 core? It's not like you have to go way out there to have a 6-core CPU these days. People are talking about it like the quads are such a better deal, but a hexacore isn't exactly high-end. Good, modern ones can be had for under $200. It'd be one thing if they were really expensive, but they're mid-range, you know? $200 actually buys you a solid 8-core! If you can buy the top-tier GPU, why skimp on the CPU?

I think if you have a quad and it's working out for you, no reason to feel like you need to upgrade. Clearly you don't. But if we're talking about a new machine, 6c/12t is a nice place to be for a good, consistent gaming and desktop experience that is much more likely to hold up long term. It's not like before where all we could say about high core counts was "they're going to be used more one day!" That day is already here, from what I can see.
This really is the perfect nuance on all fronts. I know most of y'all got scared of wall of text, but do read.
 
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I had the exact same setup stuttering like nobodies business :D FPS was good! Frametimes were all over the place
He plays a mix of games
 
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I didnt read past this post for now....

A quad core cpu will hold back several modern titles compared to a higher core count cpu. Are fps still playable, more than likely depending on the title and gpu. But the OP has specifically mentioned AAA and High Hz gaming (which so many of you missed). If you want to remove the glass ceiling and stuttering on some titles (more every month) you need more than 4c/4t... it really is that simple.

Edit: Read the thread...wow. I dont give a hoot what you do to a damn Corolla, its still a friggin Corolla. Same here peeps.. 4c/4t is 4c/4t.. clocks wont help much. If a game needs more c/t and your system doesnt have it, fps and gameplay can suffer. How much really depends on the title.

You (and those who thanked you...and others making a similar point previously in this thread...) are aware the post you quoted specifically (and the words in the first post) said high hz gaming in AAA titles, right? Not 1080p 60? So that wasn't in question in the first place. ;)
Reread the original post, it's two separate questions. I disagree with the former but agree with the latter. The OP does not combine the two questions ala "why do people recommend quad cores for high FPS 2019 AAA gaming?"

Question #1(continues from the thread title)

IMO it's not good enough anymore for gaming, especially for the latest AAA titles, and even some from years ago.
Question #2 (moves the goal post from question #1)

High fps AAA gaming? You can just forget about that with a 4-core i5.
 
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Reread the original post, it's two separate questions. I disagree with the former but agree with the latter. The OP does not combine the two questions ala "why do people recommend quad cores for high FPS 2019 AAA gaming?"

Question #1(continues from the thread title)



Question #2 (moves the goal post from question #1)
lol, classic.
 
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lol, classic.
It's because 'good enough' is now a goal instead of the minimum. This has permeated all through live. Exceptionalism is now frowned upon.
 

ppn

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Well I did 1000 hours with quad and beefy gpu so it must be good enough. Ignoring the abysmal 40-60% gpu load at times.
 
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It's because 'good enough' is now a goal instead of the minimum. This has permeated all through live. Exceptionalism is now frowned upon.
...:roll:its a hobby not the search for the cure to cancer.
 
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This other guy I was gaming with a month back was playing on an i3 dual core 2015 Alienware Alpha. I told him he could upgrade to a quad core. Found an affordable 4690s off eBay and he put it in, as this unit is thankfully a LGA 1150. Finally this guy is on a quad core in 2019. Suddenly he can run a game AND talk on discord at the same time. I get the impression it still barely runs anything modern but the reality for him was a very tight budget for hobbies, not some aspiration to mediocrity over "exceptionalism". The joy he got from finally running on a quad core in 2019 was pretty remarkable though.
 
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lol, classic.
He actually started and ended the thread right in the first post actually.

IMO it's not good enough anymore for gaming, especially for the latest AAA titles, and even some from years ago.
High fps AAA gaming? You can just forget about that with a 4-core i5.
Yep. Pretty much. There really isn't need for further discussion. lol.
 
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