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Why do midrange/premium boards dont have a decent amplifier

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As title states,

I have to use tools like DFX audio enhancer to sqeeze more volume / bass out of my headphones, and ive used quite a few ones. My hearing is perfectly well but every motherboard i owned so far (Crosshair Z, X470-F and now a X570 Elite) lack serious volume. They all come with big marketing on how good and seperated the audio setup of the board is, but none really offer punch related to volume.

Why is that?
 

tabascosauz

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Because most users use "gaming" headsets that have 0 going for them in terms of audio quality, and RGB sways buyers like nothing else can.

Gigabyte used to make a big deal out of its ALC1150 solution with a socketed replaceable OP-AMP across most of its lineup during the Haswell/DC days, but evidently none of the gamer audience cared. The ones that did most likely used dedicated hardware anyway, and ALC1150 isn't that great nowadays.

If you have 200ohm cans, chances are you've already got a DAC/amp or soundcard ready on the side. Asus nowadays has a Sabre DAC next to its S1220 on the PCB on high end boards, but that's about it.

"Enthusiasts" are never really the norm. If we had our way, every board would have a dedicated DAC/amp and Smart Power Stages, components would be matte black and brushed metal, and "mechanical keyboards" would all be $400 TGR and Duck kits.
 
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It's just that, the maximum volume is just basic. Even my iphone 7 plus plays louder then this stuff. And i have stuff turned on to the max etc. It's so weird. So many (seperate) chips for a audio devision on the motherboard, none (premium) that could actually play loud as it would be intended by marketing.

Ah well. I guess it's either an external soundcard or a headphone's amplifier.
 

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The volume is too low for you, even on max? And your hearing is fine?

E"nthusiasts" are never really the norm. If we had our way, every board would have a dedicated DAC/amp and Smart Power Stages, components would be matte black and brushed metal, and "mechanical keyboards" would all be $400 TGR and Duck kits.

Audio enthusaists are the worst of the bunch.
 
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Ah well. I guess it's either an external soundcard or a headphone's amplifier
The EVGA Nu Audio card gets plenty loud for me. It’s a external USB sound card through a Asmedia bridge chip to a internal PCIe x1 slot card.

 
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It adds to the cost, and with interference even with a quality amp would have problems Get an external amp
 
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The volume is too low for you, even on max? And your hearing is fine?



Audio enthusaists are the worst of the bunch.


Dont get me wrong; i'd like sound with a punch. Does'nt have to be screaming loud; but as long as your hearing it. Ive tried a bunch of headphones over time by now,


It adds to the cost, and with interference even with a quality amp would have problems Get an external amp

Well here's the thing i doubt a bit, the link of @biffzinker shows a card with a generic OP-amp, that could be found for less then 11 dollar: https://www.amazon.com/ANALOG-DEVICES-OP275GPZ-OP275-Bipolar/dp/B07GL4T7HR

(take note that bulk party's even come cheaper as well)

If you already buy a premum price for a board (crosshair Z formula was'nt cheap upon release and still is'nt), X470-F belongs to mid/high-end range, and X570 Elite is'nt a 50$ budget board either. Appearantly gigabyte is throwing in some higher grade components: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10#kf related to audio.

I'd prefer motherboard makers stop throwing in overbuild VRM's that even on LN2 cannot be taxed fully, RGB etc and rather focus on extra's. You cant tell me they cant throw in a decent op-amp in a board of 200 up to 400 euro.
 
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Why put on a crappy amp when 99% of people who care about an amp will use an infinitely superior external amp?
 
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There is no space to implement a "decent" solution. Motherboards will carry Jack of all trades with incremental upgrades, they do not and never will care for some rare usage cases.

Buy a tailored dedicated unit, aimed at your gear to be matched.
 
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I'd prefer motherboard makers stop throwing in overbuild VRM's that even on LN2 cannot be taxed fully, RGB etc and rather focus on extra's. You cant tell me they cant throw in a decent op-amp in a board of 200 up to 400 euro.

I'd prefer they stop putting RGB on everything. But I like the quality VRMs and I'll hardly ever use the sound chip on the board
 

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@Jism I can't tell what platform you're currently on, or whether you might be looking to upgrade. ASRock has been pairing its ALC1220s on its midrange to high end boards (keep in mind that "midrange" is X570 Steel Legend, not the Pro4s) with a TI NE5532 op-amp.

The X570 Steel Legend / Extreme4 / Taichi / Phantom Gaming X / Creator all have the NE5532, and so do the new B550 Steel Legend / Extreme4 / Taichi / PG Velocita. As for Z490, apparently only the Z490 PG Velocita, whereas the Taichi there gets a Sabre DAC. So essentially, all of ASRock's better ATX boards on AMD. The only reason they all get it is because ASRock loves re-using the exact same PCB, so if one has it, they all have it.

I can't find much else aside from ASRock parroting the tired "600ohm support" from the datasheet. From a quick glance, this isn't a high end part, and performance seems to be subjectively variable and also highly dependent on the implementation. Since copy+paste is one of current ASRock's favourite practices, whether the NE5532 is a good amp and whether they've made a good implementation of it literally makes or breaks all of those boards. There are other reasons why I'd shy away from ASRock B550 before they change their firmware, but I suppose you could give it a try.

I don't know what cans you're using right now, but from your description of preferring more volume and bass it just sounds like either you need a dedicated amp/DAC to handle insanely high ohms, or just aren't a fan of a flat/neutral/studio sound.
 
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While I get what you’re saying about sound profiles changing as you pump more power into headphones, you really should make sure you’re not going to damage your hearing. Using the internal 3.5mm from my laptop a loaned pair of 6XXs woke up well before 100%, and (pretty obviously) my 32ohm k371s start to get unbearably loud above about 25%.
Maybe it’s a better idea to stick to modifying the sound with a quality EQ than to try and get it straight from the headphones themself.
 

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Just buy a good external AMP/DAC like every real enthusiast. Personally I use the Schiit Hel. https://www.schiit.com/products/hel
OP, if you do go for this make sure you have clean power. At least for the Fulla (one tier down) some units had issues with whine and hiss, as a result of being USB powered instead of wall powered. For the most part though they make good stuff.
 
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Yeah unless you're using 32 or 80 ohm headphones you're better off using a dedicated soundcard or an external amp.
My Fidelio's are super easy to run and I run them at 15-20% vol on work laptop/home pc.
 

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Yeah unless you're using 32 or 80 ohm headphones you're better off using a dedicated soundcard or an external amp.
This problem is what most of the people who say board sound is good enough seem to miss. One of the biggest benefits of an add-in sound card is that it boosts sound level like the @Jism wants.
 
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Appearantly gigabyte is throwing in some higher grade components: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10#kf related to audio.

I'd prefer motherboard makers stop throwing in overbuild VRM's that even on LN2 cannot be taxed fully, RGB etc and rather focus on extra's. You cant tell me they cant throw in a decent op-amp in a board of 200 up to 400 euro.
I own this board. There ain't nothing special about it's audio section apart from ALC1200. If it wasn't for lack of regular PCI I'd be still using my old Xonar DG, since it had built in headphone amp and had good virtualization options for 7.1. Only more expensive GB boards get separate Sabre DACs (whatever's that worth).
So yeah, soundcard or DAC/AMP if you want better audio.
 

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Because most users use "gaming" headsets that have 0 going for them in terms of audio quality, and RGB sways buyers like nothing else can.

Gigabyte used to make a big deal out of its ALC1150 solution with a socketed replaceable OP-AMP across most of its lineup during the Haswell/DC days, but evidently none of the gamer audience cared. The ones that did most likely used dedicated hardware anyway, and ALC1150 isn't that great nowadays.

If you have 200ohm cans, chances are you've already got a DAC/amp or soundcard ready on the side. Asus nowadays has a Sabre DAC next to its S1220 on the PCB on high end boards, but that's about it.

"Enthusiasts" are never really the norm. If we had our way, every board would have a dedicated DAC/amp and Smart Power Stages, components would be matte black and brushed metal, and "mechanical keyboards" would all be $400 TGR and Duck kits.
I can boost the output on the front audio jack on my board in two steps and there's a setting that allows you to adjust for high impedance headphones. So the feature isn't gone as such, it's just that you do it in software now.
 
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@Jism I can't tell what platform you're currently on, or whether you might be looking to upgrade. ASRock has been pairing its ALC1220s on its midrange to high end boards (keep in mind that "midrange" is X570 Steel Legend, not the Pro4s) with a TI NE5532 op-amp.

The X570 Steel Legend / Extreme4 / Taichi / Phantom Gaming X / Creator all have the NE5532, and so do the new B550 Steel Legend / Extreme4 / Taichi / PG Velocita. As for Z490, apparently only the Z490 PG Velocita, whereas the Taichi there gets a Sabre DAC. So essentially, all of ASRock's better ATX boards on AMD. The only reason they all get it is because ASRock loves re-using the exact same PCB, so if one has it, they all have it.

I can't find much else aside from ASRock parroting the tired "600ohm support" from the datasheet. From a quick glance, this isn't a high end part, and performance seems to be subjectively variable and also highly dependent on the implementation. Since copy+paste is one of current ASRock's favourite practices, whether the NE5532 is a good amp and whether they've made a good implementation of it literally makes or breaks all of those boards. There are other reasons why I'd shy away from ASRock B550 before they change their firmware, but I suppose you could give it a try.

I don't know what cans you're using right now, but from your description of preferring more volume and bass it just sounds like either you need a dedicated amp/DAC to handle insanely high ohms, or just aren't a fan of a flat/neutral/studio sound.
I'm on my 3rd ASRock mobo with 2 MSI's in between and a Gigabyte here and there and it's been my experience that ASRock does indeed have the best audio levels.
But they have limits...and as mentioned here sometimes a Headphone amp is needed.
 
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I own this board. There ain't nothing special about it's audio section apart from ALC1200. If it wasn't for lack of regular PCI I'd be still using my old Xonar DG, since it had built in headphone amp and had good virtualization options for 7.1. Only more expensive GB boards get separate Sabre DACs (whatever's that worth).

I had the choice in between this one and the more expensive, 320 euro Wireless board. I hate wireless because of the random disconnects and primarly added latency and speed caps. Mind you my internet here is 1000MBit glasfibre so my wireless would be topping out at exactly 200mbit. When i installed it i was kind of dissapointed in the BIOS featureset, and the impossible XMP profile that woud'nt boot properly even when the memory is on the QVL list. I know reset CMOS, manually put voltage to 1.35V, save/reboot and then activate XMP, but it still does'nt hold the speeds as it simply does'nt boot up (only safe modus / 2133mhz). I got it running on 3000Mhz now instead of the rated 3200Mhz.

My Asus X470-F is up for warranty, the NIC blew up, and later the complete board died. When i have that back i'll replace it as the X570 adds no real benefit for me at all. A 470 chipset is just as good.
 
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because its cheaper and because the vast majority does not care. audio enthusiasts or even people that want that little bit extra, like me, will just get dedicated hardware and call it a day.
 
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OP, if you do go for this make sure you have clean power. At least for the Fulla (one tier down) some units had issues with whine and hiss, as a result of being USB powered instead of wall powered. For the most part though they make good stuff.
USB is garbage for audio ime, for a variety of reasons. But yeah... USB power is the worst sin next to data hash noise popping down the ground and up thru ya outputs. And even when it works, it doesn't sound as good as proper spdif. Worth mentioning, you can now get their Unison USB in their new Modius DAC. Until now, you had to spend about 8 hundo chunks to get it and there was nothing better. Really makes other USB audio stuff look lame. It's much closer to being immune to the follies of USB audio. Schiit hates USB. They've been at war with it from the beginning.

It's funny. Asus likes to push thier whole sound suite. Really it's not bad. Just kinda average. But you know what's NOT average? Their USB. Probably the worst possible USB bus to feed a DAC from. I mean it. You will hear your computer's thoughts through your speakers. All of their AMD boards, anyway...

I gave up on mobo audio a long time ago. Modi Multibit and Vali 2 for me. You wanna drive high-impedance headphones? Gotta have a dedicated amp. Generally. Why buy enthusiast cans just to plug them into a mobo, right?


They are running out of excuses, though. See, I've got an LG G8 ThinQ that drives 300ohm HD6xx's pretty close to "WAYYY TOO F***NG LOUD" territory, sounds good, has DSP correction, EQ, and even different DAC filtering modes! Adaptive gain for line-level, low impedance, and high impedance. It ramps up/down for whatever you plug-in. Here's the kicker: this is a not a revolutionary development by LG. It's all on one chip: an ESS ES9218P. On this thing, you get a DAC (clock built-in too, this does matter when you consider that even decent DAPs tend to use the cheapest clocks they can get that work,) variable gain amp, and the post processing magicks. You can pretty much drop it in for a full audio solution and it sounds damned good... like actually pretty resolving, a little slammin... with nice, even timbre. I'm picky and I like it. Worth mentioning, I HATE Sabre sound as much as I hate AKM's velvet warmpoo. This still impressed me.

Not sure how it would affect BOM, but a chip like this is probably the simplest way to get audio on a board, period and have a consistently good, versatile sound. Simpler than what's on your mobo that's failing to keep up.

For many many years, DACs and opamps didn't really improve much. Times have changed though, and so much can be had on a couple of chips, or now even all on one! Both ESS and AKM have done changed the game these past 7 odd years. I get that it's not a top consideration for mobo makers, but it doesn't require a revolutionary effort anymore. Baseline good audio is trivial and mobo makers are lagging. Some of these combo chips out there are so good you can pretty much drop them in and call it a day, and they will DESTROY any of the current mobo audio implementations fairly easily. Again, they are really running out of excuses, especially ones like Asus, who make audio a selling point. They need to look at what is happening with mobile audio and realize they can have that for pretty cheap and actually free up board space and streamline their process. Software stuff is firmware on those types of chips... just hook in and get fancy features. It should be a no-brainer. They just aren't thinking about it at all.

Of course, they'll probably never compare to discreet boxes. A few people mentioned Schiit. What I really like about Schiit is that they're actually engineering their budget stuff. For ~$200 you can have a stack with actual discreet circuits. Modi 3/Magni 3 is hard to beat. Or Asgard. Not just chip-in-a-box, or by-the-datasheet op-amp designs. You'll never get that inside your PC case, and the sound will reflect that.
 
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Frick

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USB is garbage for audio ime, for a variety of reasons. But yeah... USB power is the worst sin next to data hash noise popping down the ground and up thru ya outputs. And even when it works, it doesn't sound as good as proper spdif. Worth mentioning, you can now get their Unison USB in their new Modius DAC. Much closer to being immune to the follies of USB audio. Schiit hates USB. They've been at war with it from the beginning.

The various USB driven audio interfaces I've used over the years disagree with this ... but you may be talking about "DACs", which honestly I have never seen the point with. Why would I want an expensive computer audio thing but with less options?

And btw, isn't a DAC just slang for a small amplifier? I know exactly what a DAC is in electronics and have always been confused by the term since it started popping up incomputer audio related discussions a few years ago. edit: because everything with any audio output these days have dacs in them.
 
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dgianstefani

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USB is garbage for audio ime, for a variety of reasons. But yeah... USB power is the worst sin next to data hash noise popping down the ground and up thru ya outputs. And even when it works, it doesn't sound as good as proper spdif. Worth mentioning, you can now get their Unison USB in their new Modius DAC. Until now, you had to spend about 8 hundo chunks to get it and there was nothing better. Really makes other USB audio stuff look lame. It's much closer to being immune to the follies of USB audio. Schiit hates USB. They've been at war with it from the beginning.

It's funny. Asus likes to push thier whole sound suite. Really it's not bad. Just kinda average. But you know what's NOT average? Their USB. Probably the worst possible USB bus to feed a DAC from. I mean it. You will hear your computer's thoughts through your speakers. All of their AMD boards, anyway...

I gave up on mobo audio a long time ago. Modi Multibit and Vali 2 for me. You wanna drive high-impedance headphones? Gotta have a dedicated amp. Generally. Why buy enthusiast cans just to plug them into a mobo, right?


They are running out of excuses, though. See, I've got an LG G8 ThinQ that drives 300ohm HD6xx's pretty close to "WAYYY TOO F***NG LOUD" territory, sounds good, has DSP correction, EQ, and even different DAC filtering modes! Adaptive gain for line-level, low impedance, and high impedance. It ramps up/down for whatever you plug-in. Here's the kicker: this is a not a revolutionary development by LG. It's all on one chip: an ESS ES9218P. On this thing, you get a DAC (clock built-in too, this does matter when you consider that even decent DAPs tend to use the cheapest clocks they can get that work,) variable gain amp, and the post processing magicks. You can pretty much drop it in for a full audio solution and it sounds damned good... like actually pretty resolving, a little slammin... with nice, even timbre. I'm picky and I like it. Worth mentioning, I HATE Sabre sound as much as I hate AKM's velvet warmpoo. This still impressed me.

Not sure how it would affect BOM, but a chip like this is probably the simplest way to get audio on a board, period and have a consistently good, versatile sound. Simpler than what's on your mobo that's failing to keep up.

For many many years, DACs and opamps didn't really improve much. Times have changed though, and so much can be had on a couple of chips, or now even all on one! Both ESS and AKM have done changed the game these past 7 odd years. I get that it's not a top consideration for mobo makers, but it doesn't require a revolutionary effort anymore. Baseline good audio is trivial and mobo makers are lagging. Some of these combo chips out there are so good you can pretty much drop them in and call it a day, and they will DESTROY any of the current mobo audio implementations fairly easily. Again, they are really running out of excuses, especially ones like Asus, who make audio a selling point. They need to look at what is happening with mobile audio and realize they can have that for pretty cheap and actually free up board space and streamline their process. Software stuff is firmware on those types of chips... just hook in and get fancy features. It should be a no-brainer. They just aren't thinking about it at all.

Of course, they'll probably never compare to discreet boxes. A few people mentioned Schiit. What I really like about Schiit is that they're actually engineering their budget stuff. For ~$200 you can have a stack with actual discreet circuits. Modi 3/Magni 3 is hard to beat. Or Asgard. Not just chip-in-a-box, or by-the-datasheet op-amp designs. You'll never get that inside your PC case, and the sound will reflect that.

Schiit hates USB huh?
 

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