• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?

Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,918 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I kind of frustrated with this.

I get that for example 9700X is on par with performance of 7700X, however is it REALLY enough to claim Zen 5 is "DOA" or "Bad" ?
My point is, it's doing that with lower clock, since all core 9700X = 4480MHz vs. 7700X = 5190MHz, AND a lot lower power usage (9700X = 88W vs. 7700X = 148W).
Relevant tables from GN video :
Power GN.png

Frequency GN.png


What is wrong with everyone dumping on CPU that is clearly better than previous one ?
This is similar situation to Core 2 Duo E6300 vs. Pentium Extreme Edition 965 (just not as extreme, since we have very different pricing, but that's just future for you).
Everyone clearly knows which one is better of the two, even if both have similar performance :

So, WTF reviewers ?
From what I see, the only bad part about those new AMD CPUs is price, but that will be adjusted later (as always).
Also, I would love to see overclocking performance and power increase associated with it, however (I guess ?) early BIOSes/AGESA aren't stable enough for it ?

Lastly, I'm really afraid of everyone always expecting performance jumps of 20-25% between generation, when frequency scaling is TOUGH on higher end of the scale. Intel clearly shown where limits of that scale lay (both now, and in Pentium 4 days), and what are consequences of pushing blindly for frequency increases. Seeing frequency regression is really good, when paired with similar performance vs. other stuff.
We really don't need more frequency wars (neither on CPUs, nor on GPUs), and there is more to good CPU than just performance vs. previous gen.
 
Last edited:

tabascosauz

Moderator
Supporter
Staff member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
8,162 (2.36/day)
Location
Western Canada
System Name ab┃ob
Processor 7800X3D┃5800X3D
Motherboard B650E PG-ITX┃X570 Impact
Cooling NH-U12A + T30┃AXP120-x67
Memory 64GB 6400CL32┃32GB 3600CL14
Video Card(s) RTX 4070 Ti Eagle┃RTX A2000
Storage 8TB of SSDs┃1TB SN550
Case Caselabs S3┃Lazer3D HT5
I kind of frustrated with this.

I get that for example 9700X is on par with performance of 7700X, however is it REALLY enough to claim Zen 5 is "DOA" or "Bad" ?
My point is, it's doing that with lower clock, since all core 9700X = 4480MHz vs. 7700X = 5190MHz, AND a lot lower power usage (9700X = 88W vs. 7700X = 148W).
Relevant tables from GN video :
View attachment 357853
View attachment 357854

What is wrong with everyone dumping on CPU that is clearly better than previous one ?
This is similar situation to Core 2 Duo E6300 vs. Pentium Extreme Edition 965 (just not as extreme, since we have very different pricing, but that's just future for you).
Everyone clearly knows which one is better of the two, even if both have similar performance :

So, WTF reviewers ?
From what I see, the only bad part about those new AMD CPUs is price, but that will be adjusted later (as always).
Also, I would love to see overclocking performance and power increase associated with it, however (I guess ?) early BIOSes/AGESA aren't stable enough for it ?

Lastly, I'm really afraid of everyone always expecting performance jumps of 20-25% between generation, when frequency scaling is TOUGH on higher end of the scale. Intel clearly shown where limits of that scale lay (both now, and in Pentium 4 days), and what are consequences of pushing blindly for frequency increases. Seeing frequency regression is really good, when paired with similar performance vs. other stuff.
We really don't need more frequency wars (neither on CPUs, nor on GPUs), and there is more to good CPU than just performance vs. previous gen.

That's not so much credit to 9700X for being efficient as it is a knock on the 7700X for being what it is - a rushed knee-jerk reaction to try and push more performance than was efficiently available from the node at the time (and retroactively trying to paint it in a better light with the 95C justifications). AMD only released Zen 4 parts with more reasonable power limits afterwards. When N5 Zen 4 isn't trying to reach utterly insane Fmax and staying in its 5GHz and under comfort zone, the temps and power aren't much different.

I don't know who's using the labels "DOA" and "bad", but it's not a particularly exciting product either. Ryzen on N4 is not really anything we haven't seen already, it's why Phoenix, Hawk, and Strix efficiency are so good. Add to that the fact non-X3D 1CCD is still sitting in an awkward place, with no real changes in price to excite people.

And now the freq gap between X3D and non X3D seems to be closing, not with the X3D moving up but with the regular parts moving *down* in Fmax, 9700X is in a bit of a weird place.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
4,634 (0.94/day)
Location
in a van down by the river
Processor faster at instructions than yours
Motherboard more nurturing than yours
Cooling frostier than yours
Memory superior scheduling & haphazardly entry than yours
Video Card(s) better rasterization than yours
Storage more ample than yours
Display(s) increased pixels than yours
Case fancier than yours
Audio Device(s) further audible than yours
Power Supply additional amps x volts than yours
Mouse without as much gnawing as yours
Keyboard less clicky than yours
VR HMD not as odd looking as yours
Software extra mushier than yours
Benchmark Scores up yours
it's the problem when you cherry pick marketing result to show people with 10-20% gains in Far Cry 6 and LOL, the reality is those gains are outliers and in some games the 7700x performs better than the 9700x.
Is it a bad CPU? No, is it a currently good CPU for the price? No. Are people pissed AMD over hyped the CPU, I'm sure they are.

 
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,695 (1.53/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
it's the problem when you cherry pick marketing result to show people with 10-20% gains in Far Cry 6 and LOL, the reality is those gains are outliers and in some games the 7700x performs better than the 9700x.
Is it a bad CPU? No, is it a currently good CPU for the price? No. Are people pissed AMD over hyped the CPU, I'm sure they are.

Marketing pulled a fast one on us by focusing on IPC. According to Gamers Nexus's review, clocks might be lower than Zen 4 in all core workloads. An IPC uplift with reduced clocks is in line with the results that we see.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2023
Messages
280 (0.42/day)
Location
Lake Superior
It's the typical pipeline of expectations and disappointment.
Expectation: AMD said these were gaming leadership parts.
Reality: They are not.

Why are people disappointed?
1. AMD released the low TDP parts first.
2. AMD set the price a bit high.
3. AMD still hasn't increased core count since 2019.
4. AMD hasn't been able to launch X3D parts with the initial parts - if this continues happening they will probably always be disappointing and hurt their products initial impressions.
5. Not AMD's fault but there were rumors of even more insane results. While these rumors should have been discarded as false, some people still believed them.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
6,881 (1.47/day)
Location
Florida
System Name natr0n-PC
Processor Ryzen 5950x-5600x | 9600k
Motherboard B450 AORUS M | Z390 UD
Cooling EK AIO 360 - 6 fan action | AIO
Memory Patriot - Viper Steel DDR4 (B-Die)(4x8GB) | Samsung DDR4 (4x8GB)
Video Card(s) EVGA 3070ti FTW
Storage Various
Display(s) Pixio PX279 Prime
Case Thermaltake Level 20 VT | Black bench
Audio Device(s) LOXJIE D10 + Kinter Amp + 6 Bookshelf Speakers Sony+JVC+Sony
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex III ARGB 80+ Gold 650W | EVGA 700 Gold
Software XP/7/8.1/10
Benchmark Scores http://valid.x86.fr/79kuh6
They are stable cpu unlike intels mess right now which is good.
 

#22

Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Messages
413 (0.68/day)
Location
Warszawa
To OP, performance progress made going from previous models is negligible. Especially when we compare it with uplifts of previous gens of Zen. Zen 5 is more similar to what Intel used to do in previous decade. And what will be with next gen X3D, similarly? Many people may also start to feel bad in terms of mythical and theoretical "uprade path" - let's assume another gen bringing similar uplift and it being it for AM5. Option to upgrade for CPU not worth upgrading, but all of these gens of compatible parts flooding the market to massacre resell value of your already owned chip and mobo. Potentially more than cost of next motherboard. For now it looks worse than "upgrade path" of 1700 already serving as example for a while.

Nicer power numbers come mostly from setting default behaviour of CPU this time more sensibly - search for some power normalized benchmarks comparing both AM5 Zens.
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
27,030 (3.83/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name RogueOne
Processor Xeon W9-3495x
Motherboard ASUS w790E Sage SE
Cooling SilverStone XE360-4677
Memory 128gb Gskill Zeta R5 DDR5 RDIMMs
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 2TB WD SN850X | 2x 8TB GAMMIX S70
Display(s) 49" Philips Evnia OLED (49M2C8900)
Case Thermaltake Core P3 Pro Snow
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on schitt Gunnr
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TX-1600
Mouse Razer Viper mini signature edition (mercury white)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Moondrop Luna lights
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11 Pro Workstation
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
however (I guess ?) early BIOSes/AGESA aren't stable enough for it ?
I mean idk about anyone else but before I even judge performance I generally just want my PC to start.
 
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
145 (0.09/day)
As somebody mentioned in the other thread, the 9700x has the same TDP as the 7700 non-X. And it's not much better!
If you limit the 7700x to the same TDP it will have the same efficiency as the 7700 non-X.
All the efficiency improvements of the 9700x vs the 7700x are just because it's sitting on a more sane point on the voltage/frequency curve, and the small node advancement.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,881 (4.77/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
It's because it doesn't leave Raptor Lake in the dust and the gains over Zen 4 tend to range from non-existent to minor. People are way too caught up with raw performance numbers and seem to forget what's imo most important - this little chip performs amazing while keeping the watts very low. It gives me Core 2 vibes. I'm very impressed.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,695 (1.53/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
It's because it doesn't leave Raptor Lake in the dust and the gains over Zen 4 tend to range from non-existent to minor. People are way too caught up with raw performance numbers and seem to forget what's imo most important - this little chip performs amazing while keeping the watts very low. It gives me Core 2 vibes. I'm very impressed.
Judging by some of the tests in Phoronix's review, life for ARM alternatives and Intel's Xeons is about to get even harder.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
19,623 (2.86/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name White DJ in Detroit
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Plantronics 5220, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
it's the problem when you cherry pick marketing result to show people with 10-20% gains in Far Cry 6 and LOL, the reality is those gains are outliers and in some games the 7700x performs better than the 9700x.
Is it a bad CPU? No, is it a currently good CPU for the price? No. Are people pissed AMD over hyped the CPU, I'm sure they are.


To be fair it says "up to" right there.
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,918 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I don't know who's using the labels "DOA" and "bad", but it's not a particularly exciting product either.
HUB review ("Flop" thumbnail one).

It's because it doesn't leave Raptor Lake in the dust and the gains over Zen 4 tend to range from non-existent to minor. People are way too caught up with raw performance numbers and seem to forget what's imo most important - this little chip performs amazing while keeping the watts very low. It gives me Core 2 vibes. I'm very impressed.
I agree. Especially now after I saw Derbauer's video with actual OC numbers :
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,881 (4.77/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
HUB review ("Flop" thumbnail one).


I agree, especially now after I saw Derbauer's video with actual OC :

Yep, I took the time to bench after someone linked me that in the review thread. I'll just drop the link here if you're interested. Still a minor loss vs. a 13900KS/14900K's P-cores at default settings in R23 even after giving it twice the wattage, which leads me to believe this 65W TDP/88W PPT spec is the sweet spot for this chip. This much performance at only 80 watts is really a grand achievement, people are not counting that as much as I would like to see.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2023
Messages
405 (0.88/day)
Location
USA
System Name Dark Palimpsest
Processor Intel i9 13900k with Optimus Foundation Block
Motherboard EVGA z690 Classified
Cooling MO-RA3 420mm Custom Loop
Memory G.Skill 6000CL30, 64GB
Video Card(s) Nvidia 4090 FE with Heatkiller Block
Storage 3 NVMe SSDs, 2TB-each, plus a SATA SSD
Display(s) Gigabyte FO32U2P (32" QD-OLED) , Asus ProArt PA248QV (24")
Case Be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900
Audio Device(s) Logitech G Pro X
Power Supply Be quiet! Straight Power 12 1200W
Mouse Logitech G502 X
Keyboard GMMK Pro + Numpad
It really all depends on what you want to do with it.

If you want to play games with it, there's no incentive in any of the testing that the price is justified in comparison to a 7800X3D. Even from an efficiency standpoint, the 7800X3D wins.
1723052508676.png
1723052551500.png
1723052620622.png



Further, this response is 100% why we are in the boat with Intel right now. We mostly care about performance, and as gamers make up the main part of the consumer segment for these parts, they are the ones that look generation to generation and have decided that performance uplift gen-over-gen is the most important thing. So being that the gaming performance is roughly on-par with 7700X, that's being considered a failure by many. They're doing it at lower clocks and much lower power, which is awesome, but they're doing worse than an older part that's the same price or cheaper and they're not beating the part it's replacing. Intel looked at this type of response and couldn't compete at the same power levels, so they've just been cranking their products up to 11 and now we're seeing 13th and 14th gen failures because they were complacent about it and allowed voltages to creep too high. If they just released parts at the same or lower power every year with just IPC gains, Intel wouldn't be competitive, but they know that gamers care more about performance increase than power draw and they made that gamble.

GPUs are in the same boat and melted connectors is just one of the downsides we've seen and will see if they keep increasing the power draw for these.
 
Last edited:

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.63/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
The problem is that Apple has just started to use the state-of-the-art TSMC 2nm process, while AMD (5nm to 4nm is only a plus, 5+), intel and nvidia use ancient processes, extremely emphasized by the intel failures.
If they continue to avoid making technological progress with the lithography, things would become only worse in the next years.

We need more cores now, not some weird new instructions and hardware layout that is bet to be proof sometime in the distant future, and not now.
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,918 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I always wanted to see a throwback to OK-ish stock performance, and decent/great overclock headroom on CPUs (good ol' Core 2 stuff).
Maybe we are getting a glimpse of that with 9700X ?
We shall see...

The problem is that Apple has just started to use the state-of-the-art TSMC 2nm process, while AMD, intel and nvidia use ancient processes, extremely emphasized by the intel failures.
If they continue to avoid making technological progress with the lithography, things would become only worse in the next years.

We need more cores now, not some weird new instructions and hardware layout that is bet to be proof sometime in the distant future, and not now.
When Apple makes x86 core, we can have a conversation about it. Right now, that's 100% pointless/irrelevant to current situation.
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.63/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
When Apple makes x86 core, we can have a conversation about it. Right now, that's 100% pointless/irrelevant to current situation.

I didn't expect so silly response, but will answer your question.

Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?​

Because it lacks cores. Because it is made on the ancient 5nm process, and people feel there is no initiative to buy.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,881 (4.77/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
I always wanted to see a throwback to OK-ish stock performance, and decent/great overclock headroom on CPUs (good ol' Core 2 stuff).

That's the vibe I got from this launch. Sans the free +100% OC on the dinky stock cooler you got out of Conroe, that is.

Because it lacks cores. Because it is made on the ancient 5nm process, and people feel there is no initiative to buy.

Brother, you're trying too hard. Since when is TSMC N4 an ancient process? Please lol
 

ARF

Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
4,670 (2.63/day)
Location
Ex-usa | slava the trolls
Brother, you're trying too hard. Since when is TSMC N4 an ancient process? Please lol

Since there are two node shrinks afterwards, if you don't know about them. TSMC 3nm and TSMC 2nm.

AMD just showed us the same old - to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2023
Messages
2,426 (6.44/day)
System Name The Workhorse
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 5900X
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro
Cooling CPU - Noctua NH-D15S Case - 3 Noctua NF-A14 PWM at the bottom, 2 Fractal Design 180mm at the front
Memory GSkill Trident Z 3200CL14
Video Card(s) NVidia GTX 1070 MSI QuickSilver
Storage Adata SX8200Pro
Display(s) LG 32GK850G
Case Fractal Design Torrent (Solid)
Audio Device(s) FiiO E-10K DAC/Amp, Samson Meteorite USB Microphone
Power Supply Corsair RMx850 (2018)
Mouse Razer Viper (Original) on a X-Raypad Equate Plus V2
Keyboard Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid TKL keyboard (Cherry MX Black)
Software Windows 11 Pro (24H2)
The problem is that Apple has just started to use the state-of-the-art TSMC 2nm process, while AMD (5nm to 4nm is only a plus, 5+), intel and nvidia use ancient processes, extremely emphasized by the intel failures.
If they continue to avoid making technological progress with the lithography, things would become only worse in the next years.
When Apple makes x86 core, we can have a conversation about it. Right now, that's 100% pointless/irrelevant to current situation.
More importantly, there is a very good reason why new bleeding edge processes usually start out with Apple and their low-power SOCs - initially these processes are just not a good fit for power-hungry desktop parts and the yields would be abysmal. Apple is essentially both a test run and a stabilizer. Even if NV or AMD COULD buy some 2nm allocation there is no way they would WANT to. I think ARF thinks that new nodes are magic that just by itself makes any chip design better and works OOB. It's not.
 
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
1,918 (0.61/day)
System Name BOX
Processor Core i7 6950X @ 4,26GHz (1,28V)
Motherboard X99 SOC Champion (BIOS F23c + bifurcation mod)
Cooling Thermalright Venomous-X + 2x Delta 38mm PWM (Push-Pull)
Memory Patriot Viper Steel 4000MHz CL16 4x8GB (@3240MHz CL12.12.12.24 CR2T @ 1,48V)
Video Card(s) Titan V (~1650MHz @ 0.77V, HBM2 1GHz, Forced P2 state [OFF])
Storage WD SN850X 2TB + Samsung EVO 2TB (SATA) + Seagate Exos X20 20TB (4Kn mode)
Display(s) LG 27GP950-B
Case Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL
Audio Device(s) Motu M4 (audio interface) + ATH-A900Z + Behringer C-1
Power Supply Seasonic X-760 (760W)
Mouse Logitech RX-250
Keyboard HP KB-9970
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I didn't expect so silly response, but will answer your question.

Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?​

Because it lacks cores. Because it is made on the ancient 5nm process, and people feel there is no initiative to buy.
So... you think everything below 12 core on Zen 5 is bad, because multicore performance isn't where it should be... OK.
Then, by your definition, AMD should stop making everything below Ryzen 9 - since "they don't have enough cores".
...
Good luck with that.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
6,881 (4.77/day)
Location
São Paulo, Brazil
System Name "Icy Resurrection"
Processor 13th Gen Intel Core i9-13900KS Special Edition
Motherboard ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S upgraded with 2x NF-F12 iPPC-3000 fans and Honeywell PTM7950 TIM
Memory 32 GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB F5-6800J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK @ 7600 MT/s 36-44-44-52-96 1.4V
Video Card(s) ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX™ 4080 16GB GDDR6X White OC Edition
Storage 500 GB WD Black SN750 SE NVMe SSD + 4 TB WD Red Plus WD40EFPX HDD
Display(s) 55-inch LG G3 OLED
Case Pichau Mancer CV500 White Edition
Power Supply EVGA 1300 G2 1.3kW 80+ Gold
Mouse Microsoft Classic Intellimouse
Keyboard Generic PS/2
Software Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 24H2
Benchmark Scores I pulled a Qiqi~
Since there are two node shrinks afterwards, if you don't know about them. TSMC 3nm and TSMC 2nm.

AMD just showed us the same old - to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Big deal. They're either fully booked years in advance by customers with bottomless pockets (Apple) or at an experimental stage, clearly unable to meet performance characteristics required to build the chip. Even Intel's 10 nm (Intel 7) is an extremely advanced node. It just doesn't work that way... besides, you want this thing to cost $3799 instead of $379, have the same or worse performance, and simultaneously be perma out of stock?

I fed you enough man, not cool to troll up a fair topic like this one
 

freeagent

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
8,651 (3.80/day)
Location
Winnipeg, Canada
Processor AMD R7 5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling Thermalright Frozen Edge 360, 3x TL-B12 V2, 2x TL-B12 V1
Memory 2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s) Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage WD SN850 1TB, SN850X 2TB, SN770 1TB
Display(s) LG 50UP7100
Case Fractal Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) JBL Bar 700
Power Supply Seasonic Vertex GX-1000, Monster HDP1800
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Logitech G213
VR HMD Oculus 3
Software Yes
Benchmark Scores Yes
For guys like me on Zen 3 it’s a solid upgrade. Zen 3 to Zen 4 was a bit to meh for me. I would imagine that would be how some guys feel.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2023
Messages
170 (0.31/day)
Location
Holy Roman Empire
System Name Shadowchaser /// Shadowchaser Jr.
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700 /// AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming /// Asus ROG Strix B550-E Gaming
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S chromax.black /// Thermalright Venomous X
Memory Kingston Fury Beast RGB 6000C30 2x16GB /// G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200C14 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Zotac GeForce RTX 4080 Trinity 16GB /// Gigabyte G1 GTX 980Ti
Storage Kingston KC3000 2TB + Samsung 970EVO 2TB + 2x WD Red 4TB /// Samsung 970EVO 1TB + WD Red 4TB
Display(s) Gigabyte M27Q /// Dell U2715H
Case Fractal Define 7 Black /// Fractal Define R5 Black
Power Supply Seasonic SS-750KM3 /// Seasonic SS-660KM
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S /// Logitech MX Master
Software Linux Debian 12 x64 + MS Windows 10 Pro x64
I didn't expect so silly response, but will answer your question.

Why everyone say Zen 5 is bad ?​

Because it lacks cores. Because it is made on the ancient 5nm process, and people feel there is no initiative to buy.
Whatever you smoking, please send me some.
 
Top