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Why should Physx matter?!

Would physx improve your experience?

  • Would like to see higher particle counts!!!

    Votes: 24 48.0%
  • Somewhat interested, but only have AMD

    Votes: 8 16.0%
  • Don't want to run more than one card (NV)

    Votes: 2 4.0%
  • Have heard about it, not informed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't care, not interested.

    Votes: 16 32.0%

  • Total voters
    50

FordGT90Concept

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Direct Physics was trademarked by Microsoft after the Havok buyout from Intel. I don't know if anything became of it afterwards.
It's been two and a half years since. That's why I'm not really optimistic anymore. If it was going to happen, it should have been release a year ago at the latest.

The point of real time rendering pf physx was to bring a more realistic approach to the movement of objects. If you move a ball with your hand, that's real time rendering. That was essentially the idea behind the concept in the first place if I recall.
No, it was to have lots of dynamic objects in a scene simultaneously. Each object adds computational overhead and when you collide lots of them together in a series, it creates exponentially more computational work because every action has a reaction. CPUs can handle quite a bit but go multiples beyond that, you need the parallelism GPUs afford...

Now general compute cores are being replaced by hardware tensor cores which are even better at solving complex physics operations than compute cores are...

But it comes back to the same old problem: there isn't much demand for complex physics by game developers.
 
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While I think Physx is a cool tech it was rather badly implemented in most games in the past.

Played Batman Asylum+City,Borderlands 2/Pre Sequel/Alice return to madness and some other games with physx and they all had issues with it and a bad performance hit,this with a Nvidia card that was more than enough for the games itself.

Now with a full AMD system I tried it in BL Pre-Sequel and the 1600x can handle it on medium or so but even then its not smooth.
In Batman it wont even let me pick higher than the base setting and even that destroys my performance in more demanding scenes like in prison with all that toilet paper/trash all over the place.
Well at least Alice works with anything these days. I remember that having a slower CPU and Radeon, I had to decrease that to low. :)
 
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Alice and Metro showed that physx adds up latency the way it is done on nvidia. Thus it is a reason why devs really avoid it. It has something to do with mulithreading and assembling tasks on the gpu execution pipe. Doing certain heavy physx things cause a stutter fest, despite the GPU load is not high.

Those two games are the only ones where I slapped a 750ti in a second slot and the FPS had no more stutters anymore as a dedicated that card to physx. I bet seldom anyone has tried that.
 
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I`m playing Borderlands The Pre-Sequel with a friend, and with Physx set to Ultra the fps tanks to the 40's in heavy combat.

I've been saying this for years, physics is where games should head to next. Imagine having a firefight in a totally destructible building and objects, a la John Woo.
 

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Who cares about particles? I want good physics as a baseline, not just in explosions. A game can be as photorealistic as it wants, but it's the physics that tie it together.
 
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I've been saying this for years, physics is where games should head to next. Imagine having a firefight in a totally destructible building and objects, a la John Woo.
control
 
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More like Red Faction I´d say

And there is no PhysX involved in that title. As I said, why always talk about PhysX, it´s a dying SDK for Cuda that has no relevance for most games physics simulations / engines.
 
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An older video but represents physx destruction rendered in real time.

 

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Alice and Metro showed that physx adds up latency the way it is done on nvidia. Thus it is a reason why devs really avoid it. It has something to do with mulithreading and assembling tasks on the gpu execution pipe. Doing certain heavy physx things cause a stutter fest, despite the GPU load is not high.
Because physics is calculated per frame so the GPU knows where to draw the new objects. Adding latency is unavoidable because not much can be done until the physics math is complete.

More like Red Faction I´d say

And there is no PhysX involved in that title. As I said, why always talk about PhysX, it´s a dying SDK for Cuda that has no relevance for most games physics simulations / engines.
It's Havok on CPU and they limit how many objects there are with many that are permanent. This is the right way to do physics as a gameplay mechanic.
 
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So a technology that according to many isn't utilized enough.

Let's look at Gsync, ohh, another proprietary tech that has been spread I to an already existing standard that did the same thing.

How about CUDA? Like OpenCL, it is another proprietary tech that has gone some to the open source side.

Like most new technology, Physx died when Nvidia kept it to themselves.


I expect the same to happen to their version of Ray Tracing, and good riddance.
 
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So a technology that according to many isn't utilized enough.

Let's look at Gsync, ohh, another proprietary tech that has been spread I to an already existing standard that did the same thing.

How about CUDA? Like OpenCL, it is another proprietary tech that has gone some to the open source side.

Like most new technology, Physx died when Nvidia kept it to themselves.


I expect the same to happen to their version of Ray Tracing, and good riddance.
The technology is a good physics engine, not so much PhysX itself. There are examples of similar ones that do similar things, and a counter question to yours would be 'why have competitors not made it big themselves'. Or: why is widely used physics executed on the CPU? Why can't AMD leverage its GPUs to do similar things and make it big? Etc.

The gist of this topic is that we'd love to see more physics interaction in games. PhysX is a means to that goal. Havok another. Similarly, I'm with you that RTX on its own is dead in the water, and needs an open and easy to integrate alternative that is GPU vendor independant. But RT is something we'd love to see - preferably in such a way that we're not stuck with buying extra hardware. The similarities are all over the place ;)

This will quickly devolve into the endless green/red argument and the outcome will be the exact same: AMD lacks the tech, and its fans whine about a competitor who does have it, only to copy it a while later. Let's not go there.
 
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The technology is a good physics engine, not so much PhysX itself. There are examples of similar ones that do similar things, and a counter question to yours would be 'why have competitors not made it big themselves'.

The gist of this topic is that we'd love to see more physics interaction in games. PhysX is a means to that goal. Havok another.

Based on use of GPU accelerated Physx, it's a failure. Havok and Physx on the CPU are successful.

AMD has open source hair and other effects, but few companies have included it, for the same reasons, performance, adoption, and hardware availability when the majority of GPUs are Intel second to the number of consoles, which again power to performance is always the name of the game there.
 
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Based on use of GPU accelerated Physx, it's a failure. Havok and Physx on the CPU are successful.

AMD has open source hair and other effects, but few companies have included it, for the same reasons, performance, adoption, and hardware availability when the majority of GPUs are Intel second to the number of consoles, which again power to performance is always the name of the game there.
Its (also) an economical argument. Spreadsheet heroes have not realized that physics can add value or sell games, so we don't get it, it is really that simple. And doing it on the CPU instead will marginalize your sales because not everyone has a fast CPU, and physics tend to affect gameplay so you'd want a single quality setting for everyone.
 
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Because physics is calculated per frame so the GPU knows where to draw the new objects. Adding latency is unavoidable because not much can be done until the physics math is complete.


It's Havok on CPU and they limit how many objects there are with many that are permanent. This is the right way to do physics as a gameplay mechanic.
I would agree, but that did not explain why on earth a dedicated card with lower math power helped? The botleneck may be not only the latency budget. Particles should be limited already, except the Pepper Gun, it still taxes. Some sort of sceduler piplene flaw, way to slow to switch gears into different task on the same GPU? We can only guess. But yeah... It aint the best.
 
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I really liked the few games with hardware PhysX and the demos. Coming from a HD4850 to a GTX970, PhysX was one of the highlights. It's more than sad that Nvidia abandoned it, it looked quite awesome in the Batman game(s?) which had it, and Borderlands to a lesser level. Pretty sure they could make it run with imperceptible performance impact on modern cards, maybe even use RT/Tensor cores to enhance it.
 

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I would agree, but that did not explain why on earth a dedicated card with lower math power helped? The botleneck may be not only the latency budget. Particles should be limited already, except the Pepper Gun, it still taxes. Some sort of sceduler piplene flaw, way to slow to switch gears into different task on the same GPU? We can only guess. But yeah... It aint the best.
Probably staggered. The latency is always one frame behind because of the PhysX but because there's enough compute there for PhysX and no distractions, it's no more than one frame behind. Disabling PhysX likely results in a significant drop in frame times; hence, less stutter. The more work PhysX has to do, the longer the frame times get.

AMD's anti-lag feature in the driver also manipulates the frame timing to reduce latency in the CPU/GPU pipelines.
 
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I really liked the few games with hardware PhysX and the demos. Coming from a HD4850 to a GTX970, PhysX was one of the highlights. It's more than sad that Nvidia abandoned it, it looked quite awesome in the Batman game(s?) which had it, and Borderlands to a lesser level. Pretty sure they could make it run with imperceptible performance impact on modern cards, maybe even use RT/Tensor cores to enhance it.
The RT cores and Tensor cores are very specifically designed to do what they do.
Trying to run PhysX on them might be worse than running physics on a modern multi-core CPU.
In the end what you are doing with GPU PhysX is taking resources from the GPU which should be fully loaded anyway, while most CPUs today having half or more cores sitting idle in games.
 
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PhysX matters because it's a very capable physics platform, and thanks to advancements in compute power, it's become practically "free" (especially with Turing GPUs). NVIDIA drivers are also able to auto-select between GPU (CUDA) or CPU for PhysX worker threads to minimize FPS impact.
 
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PhysX matters because it's a very capable physics platform, and thanks to advancements in compute power, it's become practically "free" (especially with Turing GPUs). NVIDIA drivers are also able to auto-select between GPU (CUDA) or CPU for PhysX worker threads to minimize FPS impact.
Note that even today, multi-threading support on CPU PhysX is still rather poor.
(For a large part of GPU PhysX's "relevance" the software was stuck running on ancient code and on a single thread. Now it at least has some multi-threading.)
But then nVidia has no incentive to improve it since it is a conflict of interest for them. They want to sell more GPUs, and they do not sell CPUs for PCs.
 
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Yeah, what we need is some of our resident physics experts to explore the source code and improve things for all users.
 
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PhysX matters because it's a very capable physics platform, and thanks to advancements in compute power, it's become practically "free" (especially with Turing GPUs).
And it can seamlessly be combined with RTRT...
Totally, Physixs and destructible environments are more immersive than ray tracing IMO
...because you can do both at the same time at little additional resource costs.
 
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I loved the Mafia II physx implementation
 
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I loved the Mafia II physx implementation
I wish my Ryzen board had a legacy PCI slot. Would have to fire up some UT3 on the old PPU.
Haven't used it in years. The fan died on me. Was a sad day. Had two others, can't find them. maybe sold or gave away. can't remember now.

Additional comment:
Ordered a Dell XPS Physx PPU just now for 15.99 free shipping. It's a PCI-E 1X card.
NVM, don't need a legacy PCI slot lol. Face Palm.
s-l500.jpg

Wait WUT?? Physx fun for only 16 dollars? (Old school Agiea physx only, does not support NV physx demos or games or drivers fyi)

Cell Factor Revolution No physx PPU.
Once I have the PPU, run the same map and see what the difference looks like.

 
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Ordered a Dell XPS Physx PPU just now for 15.99 free shipping. It's a PCI-E 1X card.
NVM, don't need a legacy PCI slot lol. Face Palm.
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I have one in my shelf. You will be limited with drivers and only few games support physx PPU type. You are better using a dedicated GPU like I did.

PhysX but because there's enough compute there for PhysX and no distractions, it's no more than one frame behind.
Sounds plausible. Well a engine profiler would truly reveal where's the bottleneck. The heck, it could be even engine related. But physix are mostly a dedicated single CPU thread. It is treated same way as game audio these days. It is there, kinda average for all, yet it is enough, but nothing out of ordinary without the wow effect really. Mostly prebaked libraries are used because of the time constraints and that's it. Layf.
 
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