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Will Oslo massacre reignite the "Ban violent videogames!!" hysteria?

qubit

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#1
A link between videogames and Anders Behring Breivik’s horrific killing spree in Norway last week has brought the issue of violence in videogames crashing into mainstream media once more.

In the words of Breivik, who prior to his killing spree wrote a 1,500 page manifesto entitled “2083, A Declaration of European Independence,” he described Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 as a “training-simulation more than anything else.”

"I just bought Modern Warfare 2, the game," wrote the mass murderer, who reportedly killed 94 people (at time of writing) in Norway on Friday.

"It is probably the best military simulator out there and it's one of the hottest games this year. ... I see MW2 more as a part of my training-simulation than anything else. I've still learned to love it though and especially the multiplayer part is amazing. You can more or less completely simulate actual operations.”

It would be crazy to suggest that a videogame was solely responsible for Breivik’s violence, but what these few sentences do indicate is that violent videogames can only be bad for people who are violentally unstable, as Breivik obviously is. He clearly indicates that MW2 is part of “my training simulation”, suggesting that he has imagined himself conducting killings while playing the game. That's quite disturbing. However, his comparison between MW2 and real life operations is way off the mark - Breivik had no military experience first off to make such a judgement, and any gamer who has played the Call Of Duty franchise will know that it is nothing like a simulation. This suggests that he was living in a fantasy land, and sought excuses to fuel his inner rage and reasons to spur him onto carrying out the killing spree - MW2 was a small part of that.

Of course, there’s a hundred-and-one different aspects to Breivik’s character that may have led to this dreadful disregard for human life, including his past family life and his alleged connections with right wing Christianity. Usually though, videogames have been tenuously linked to crimes and murders – where we hear that a killer used to play a certain videogame, perhaps – but in this case Breivik clearly states that MW2 helped him in his plans. That alone will give pressure groups the ammunition to press forward with plans to try and censor future games, and they'll probably have more people on board than ever before, such is the scale of the devestation caused by Breivik. Do they have a point? Should videogames be toned down? Well, we can't recall any case that has such as strong link between a videogame and a real life act of violence, but we suspect that the debate will once again disappear into the background until another gamer does something awful.
I sincerely hope they don't get their way with censoring action games. :shadedshu

Hexus
 

Frick

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#2
Doesn't the military use those games as well?
 

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#3
The Supreme Court recently ruled that video games are protected by 1st amendment rights in the USA. US citizens have nothing to be worried about.

Those in Europe though...watch out.
 
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#4
What a quote by Breivik! Does he have a stake in the developer/publisher?
 

qubit

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#5
The Supreme Court recently ruled that video games are protected by 1st amendment rights in the USA. US citizens have nothing to be worried about.

Those in Europe though...watch out.
I'm in Europe and I can just see Steam enforcing this with their regional restrictions. :rolleyes: I bet it would even apply to games I'd already bought. Perhaps forcing me to accept an 'update' that neutered the game. You can just see how Duke Nukem Forever would be in the firing line with all its 'sex and violence'.
 
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#6
^^ Next thing on the news is some European serial titty slapper who says Duke Nukem made me do it.
 
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#7
please, consider the real issue behind this FUBAR SOB: stupid ideology and wasted brains. Let the "PRESS" make videogames an issue if they consider. But DON'T DO THEIR JOB
 

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#8
The Supreme Court recently ruled that video games are protected by 1st amendment rights in the USA. US citizens have nothing to be worried about.

Those in Europe though...watch out.
Naah, that debate is old, at least here. For good and bad.

And even iy you're "protected" in the US, the debate could still spark.
 

qubit

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#9
Naah, that debate is old, at least here. For good and bad.

And even if you're "protected" in the US, the debate could still spark.
Yeah, those right-wing conservative goodie two-shoes types have too much political power. They'll never tire of trying to suppress perfectly legal activities all "for the children" or to avoid "corrupting minds". :rolleyes: The truth that this guy was retarded in the first place and actually played other games such as WOW will be conveniently forgotten by them.

Like he wouldn't have done this had he not played Call of Duty. Sure, pull the other one. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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#10
I don't think "people" [The Meda] will focus to much on"he played cod" thing as the fact that this guy is legitimately insane.

Its not a case of,
"GTA made me think it was ok steal cars and run over hookers"

Its more like
"When im not playing GTA like to carjack ppl at gun point and run over whores"
 
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#11
If you read his manifesto, you will see that he played those games to deliberately fabricate a cover. He didn't like them. He played them so people would think he was normal. He wrote about it extensively. The games he played do not actually have anything to do with the tragedy. However, I do expect weak and undisciplined citizens to begin hemming and hawing about 'violent video games' in much the same manner that they complained about the casey anthony fiasco. Ignorant, weak, undisciplined, shallow and pretentious citizens will always be a threat to humanity.

Initially, he published a book with hate speech. He had a rather large investment portfolio, to the sum of $760,000. He was going to use it to push more literature out, and to start a movement group. He is very dedicated, and very driven. He could have actually pulled off a political movement if he had the right connections. Too bad. (for the victims of course, I don't advocate racism or religious discrimination (I do support emigration reform)).

When the economy crashed, he instantly lost half of it. After moving in with his mother for a while, the sum had dwindled down to $280,000, which is where he decided that he would have better bang/buck if he put the funds towards terrorism.:shadedshu

Which as we know ended in a horrible tragedy that should never have happened.

It is an interesting read. The source I viewed my copy from has been taken down. If I see another link on 4chan I will download it and put it up for the rest of you to read.

The man is a killer, and he is insane, but for many years he went about rather normal, morally sound ways of reaching his goals. He got impatient is all. He felt boxed in. He is definitely paranoid enough to think that the whole recession was fabricated by some secret group of people just to keep him from his goal. So he went ballistic.:(
 
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#12
Imagine the outcome if he played Battlefield, regardless of the MMO.
Nah, just kidding, he's a nutjob.
 
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#13
ideology and wasted brains.
His ideology was sound, really. What he was dealing with is equivilant to mexicans in america rallying together to close down the metropolitan art museum so they can build mosques. Protesting to make Spanish the nations language, and lobbying to make sombreros required at all sports events and in church.

Rednecks would go ballistic. After ten years, his book didn't work and his investment portfolio was botched. So he bombed the people he holds responsible, which is the Labour Party in Norway. He didn't even bomb the middle eastern people. He stood back for a second, realised what the real problem was, and then hit them where they would remember it forever (the poor children, who did nothing wrong, and are completely innocent in this horrifying ordeal:().

So he was definitely smart, and his ideology was sound. Like I said, you have to read his manifesto. The media twists things out of reality, and frequently publish downright fabricated information. You can't trust any of them, not even European Journalism.

You also have to understand that in Europe, the emigration issue is well known about. For example, the Protest in London to have Shariah Law instated in the UK. Think about that underlined sentence for a second and tell me that European history and culture is not being destroyed by immigrants.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23762591-islamist-group-march-for-full-sharia-law-in-britain.do

DON'T DO THEIR JOB
They can not do their job. Not well, not good, not bad, not at all, not some, not today, not tomorrow, not yesterday, not for you, not for me, not for their paycheck, not for their boss, not for humanity itself.

Journalists, Publicists, Editors, Reporters are all sub-human pieces of shit.:mad: Just like that. Sweeping generalization. End of story.
 
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#14
It's BS on so many levels if it goes through i'll make a massacre wih someone...
Games don't teach you how to properly reload weapon, they don't teach you how to unlock a safety pin, they don't teach you how to hold it properly or in a case of a rifle, how to place it properly to your shoulder so you don't shatter it on a rifle recoil. Games also don't teach you what kind of kick it is when a weapon fires. And bunch of other things. So next time when someone was comminiting a massacre, when he runs out of bullets, will he look for a "R" button to reload a weapon? Or wait for a while for the auto-reload feature to automatically reload the real rifle?
Is it just me or it's all just a massive BS ? Movies teach you more about weapons and killing than any game will, despite the fact that you can tear limbs and guts with precision in Soldier of Fortune game.

It's not games fault. That Norwegian guy is freakin whacked and that's the end of it. N game was ever reason or the cause for his actions.
 

Frick

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#15
Yeah, those right-wing conservative goodie two-shoes types have too much political power. They'll never tire of trying to suppress perfectly legal activities all "for the children" or to avoid "corrupting minds". :rolleyes: The truth that this guy was retarded in the first place and actually played other games such as WOW will be conveniently forgotten by them.

Like he wouldn't have done this had he not played Call of Duty. Sure, pull the other one. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Retarded? Not so much. Quite the opposite actually.

And I didn't say he would not have done it without playing games, I implied that the debate is both good and bad. It's stupid to think that violent games = violent people. But everything around us have some impact on us. It's called processing information. Everything we do leaves a print in our heads, it's the way the world works. So I truly believe violent games does have an impact at especially young minds, but we don't know what kind of impact it is.

And I also believe that too much violence in fiction makes us kinda numb to the real thing. That is also the way the world works. Drink a lot of alcohol and you'll tolerate more. Look at enough goatse and it'll stop disturbing you, and eventually you'll see goatse everywhere. Look at porn, even cartoon porn, for long enough and that will ruin your mind. It's just how things work. So why would it not apply to violence?

Again, I'm not saying violence in fiction = violent people, but I'm pretty darn sure it can spark things in unstable minds.
 

qubit

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#16
Retarded? Not so much. Quite the opposite actually.

And I didn't say he would not have done it without playing games, I implied that the debate is both good and bad. It's stupid to think that violent games = violent people. But everything around us have some impact on us. It's called processing information. Everything we do leaves a print in our heads, it's the way the world works. So I truly believe violent games does have an impact at especially young minds, but we don't know what kind of impact it is.

And I also believe that too much violence in fiction makes us kinda numb to the real thing. That is also the way the world works. Drink a lot of alcohol and you'll tolerate more. Look at enough goatse and it'll stop disturbing you, and eventually you'll see goatse everywhere. Look at porn, even cartoon porn, for long enough and that will ruin your mind. It's just how things work. So why would it not apply to violence?

Again, I'm not saying violence in fiction = violent people, but I'm pretty darn sure it can spark things in unstable minds.
I don't think that desinsitization* you describe actually harms society. And yes, some unstable minds may go off the rails with it, but that's just it, these people are faulty/bad. It won't take much of anything to make them go off.

One can also make the usual point of do we ban all things that can be used for harm? So, knives would be outlawed because you can stab people. Oh and cars! Cars too, because you can run people over! See how paranoid and retarded this thinking is?

Therefore, so what if CoD was a trigger? It means Jack Schitt.

And anyway, read post 11 by Captain.Abrecan: this sick bastard made the game influence up as a cover anyway. So yes, this violent video games hysteria is even more BS. :slap:

*Did I spel it rite?! :eek:
 
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#17
His ideology was sound, really. What he was dealing with is equivilant to mexicans in america rallying together to close down the metropolitan art museum so they can build mosques. Protesting to make Spanish the nations language, and lobbying to make sombreros required at all sports events and in church....End of story.
This norwegian shitcan was not sound at all. Please all the people forgive me for entering in details, not hardware, not gaming related. I just can't stand such stupidity.

This pig kills mainly 14-18 year olds, yeah great contribution to his cause. not.
His faked up life could (could) have found a use in the army over there in Asia, but no he was surfing the 'net so much he didn't have time for service.
Now really, he uses all the Templars symbols to identify himself... What?! The Templars were murdered for the reason of multiculturalism (between others) back in the dark ages, and this shithead uses them as a 'white cristian symbol', ha! ha! ha!

Then he cites "The Cid, the Mio Cid" of the Spanish middelages as a 'Odinist warrior', LOTFLMAO!!!!! This (cristian, not viking) noble knight worked as a mercenary.... for the Moors most of the time! ha! ha! ha!

So really anybody focusing on 'video games' and wannabe supremacists is better of to study their fukked up minds and corrupt schemes, not what they do in spare time... :nutkick:
 

Frick

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#18
I don't think that desinsitization* you describe actually harms society. And yes, some unstable minds may go off the rails with it, but that's just it, these people are faulty/bad. It won't take much of anything to make them go off.

One can also make the usual point of do we ban all things that can be used for harm? So, knives would be outlawed because you can stab people. Oh and cars! Cars too, because you can run people over! See how paranoid and retarded this thinking is?
1. Why don't you think that it harms society? I'm not sure it does either, but I would still like to hear your arguments.

2. Aye, cars are totally dangerous and that is why not everyone can drive them. It's one of the reasons you must have a license to drive one. Also, cars are not a common weapon of mass destruction, they are a tool. CoD (now we're just taking this as an example, but it can be books, music, paintings, whatever) is not either a weapon (or a physical product at all), but the point of the game is to kill as many people as possible in under given circumstances. Very different from cars or knifes. Or anything short of actual combat.

3. Yes I read his post and it actually doesn't affect my points. The man is beyond sane imo (not sane, but he has gone to the far side of sanity).
 

qubit

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#19
This norwegian shitcan was not sound at all. Please all the people forgive me for entering in details, not hardware, not gaming related. I just can't stand such stupidity.

This pig kills mainly 14-18 year olds, yeah great contribution to his cause. not.
His faked up life could (could) have found a use in the army over there in Asia, but no he was surfing the 'net so much he didn't have time for service.
Now really, he uses all the Templars symbols to identify himself... What?! The Templars were murdered for the reason of multiculturalism (between others) back in the dark ages, and this shithead uses them as a 'white cristian symbol', ha! ha! ha!

Then he cites "The Cid, the Mio Cid" of the Spanish middelages as a 'Odinist warrior', LOTFLMAO!!!!! This (cristian, not viking) noble knight worked as a mercenary.... for the Moors most of the time! ha! ha! ha!

So really anybody focusing on 'video games' and wannabe supremacists is better of to study their fukked up minds and corrupt schemes, not what they do in spare time... :nutkick:
"Norwegian shitcan". Perfect! :toast: I totally agree with the rest of your post too. :)


1. Why don't you think that it harms society? I'm not sure it does either, but I would still like to hear your arguments.

2. Aye, cars are totally dangerous and that is why not everyone can drive them. It's one of the reasons you must have a license to drive one. Also, cars are not a common weapon of mass destruction, they are a tool. CoD (now we're just taking this as an example, but it can be books, music, paintings, whatever) is not either a weapon (or a physical product at all), but the point of the game is to kill as many people as possible in under given circumstances. Very different from cars or knifes. Or anything short of actual combat.

3. Yes I read his post and it actually doesn't affect my points. The man is beyond sane imo (not sane, but he has gone to the far side of sanity).
1 Why don't I think it harms society? Because of my life experience, I guess. You just don't see normal people doing shit like this, regardless of what they're exposed to. Also, deaths and other bad things are unfortunately a part of life - and there's a lot of bad things happening. To 'shield' people from this is just censorship eg China, North Korea, Egypt etc, all very oppressive regimes.

People might not be super-shocked to learn that someone got fatally run over in an accident perhaps, but they're still concerned about it and it helps keep people's finger on the pulse of what's going on in the world

2 Yup, control of dangerous things is right and proper. That's why we have driving licences, for example. For games we have ESRB ratings. I find it funny how it's deemed perfectly acceptable to send young men and women into a warzone like Iraq to see and deal with the horrors of war first hand, with all the traumatizing that entails, yet, a game that simulates it is deemed 'damaging'. How hypocritical. :slap:

Frankly, the human mind thrives on bad things for entertainment. Think about all the movies one sees for example. From sci-fi to dramas to thrillers to action films like Die Hard and The Terminator, humans love to see trouble and strife - and in most cases it's overcome.

Exactly the same with games such as CoD. You simulate war only to eventually win it and prevail agains the bad guy.

This isn't 'damaging', it's the way we are.

3 Yes, you've just said what I've said. The guy was nuts anway and would have done this shit regardless. I dunno if we have crossed wires on this one, perhaps? lol. :toast:
 
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#20
If this jackass Breivik can get CoD banned Ill send him flowers in hell. The fanboy mental breakdown would be worth every petal.

And even iy you're "protected" in the US, the debate could still spark.

Spark? Spark what? We are broke. Nothing to burn. :laugh:
 
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#21
There was a brief article in the news here when it surfaced that he played CoD. I was heavily surprised when it didn't say anything about banning video games. And now its not talked about at all. I think his pretty damn long manifesto is responsible for that, its a so obvious source, that nobody dares to blame video games on that one.

So boys and girls, want to wreck havoc and go berserk, killing innocent people because you learned so in 90% of all games ever made? Write a 1000 page manifesto about why you hate the color orange first.
 

Frick

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#22
2 Yup, control of dangerous things is right and proper. That's why we have driving licences, for example. For games we have ESRB ratings. I find it funny how it's deemed perfectly acceptable to send young men and women into a warzone like Iraq to see and deal with the horrors of war first hand, with all the traumatizing that entails, yet, a game that simulates it is deemed 'damaging'. How hypocritical. :slap:
Totally so. I do not support any violence in real life either btw. ;)

But I base my views on myself, and I know I get funny and disturbing dreams when playing to much violent games, or doing anything related to violence.

(i've been in therapy for it though, so I guess I'm not like most people :p)
 
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#23
Write a 1000 page manifesto about why you hate the color orange first.
I thought about if I lose my mind I would write about stuff I hate and act like I loved it and that drove me to it. So when I get mowed down in front of a strip joint beating people down with an ivory chess set people would feel sorry for the strippers and ban chess......I hate chess.
 

qubit

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#24
If this jackass Breivik can get CoD banned Ill send him flowers in hell. The fanboy mental breakdown would be worth every petal.
Totally, +1, especially the first sentence. You've dropped another classic, MM. :)


Totally so. I do not support any violence in real life either btw. ;)

But I base my views on myself, and I know I get funny and disturbing dreams when playing to much violent games, or doing anything related to violence.

(i've been in therapy for it though, so I guess I'm not like most people :p)
Yes, one can get dodgy dreams and I've had them too (not from video games, mind) from seeing disturbing stuff, but it doesn't corrupt you like they try to make out.
 
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#25
I hate how governments are trying to post violence is related to Video Games. It's all a bunch of Hogwash!

Everybody know's that Olso Massacre was a false flag terrorist attack.