• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Win 98 SE on new hardware - no go

T

twilyth

Guest
#1
I'm really surprised I haven't started throwing shit yet. I have a butt load of old Travan tapes that I want to sell but I need to erase the data and maybe look at some of the tapes to make sure there's nothing there I care about. I'm using an old Adaptec SCSI card.

There were no drivers for Vista 64-bit so I set up another machine with Vista 32. That didn't work because I couldn't find software that would recognize the tape drive. Well, I did, but i couldn't get it to work.

I tried setting up a virtual machine, but there doesn't seem to be any way to patch the scsi driver through to the VM.

So finally I broke down and figured I'd just install Win 98 in it's own partition and run the original driver and software. Except every time I install the OS, I get an error message saying that there isn't enough memory to load windows. There's 533k of DOS memory free, but no high memory. The total memory is 4Gb. I tried safe mode, but it's the same thing.

So now, I'm rebuilding yet another machine based on a Pentium 4 chip and mobo. If this mutha fucking piece of shit cock sucker doesn't work, I'm going to have to kill something.

I can sell those tapes for about $10 a piece and I've got at least 30 of them - well, maybe less since half are Travan 4 (5gb?) and the rest are Travan 5 (10gb native). Maybe it's not like hitting the lottery, but it's something.

Anyway, anybody who was around for Win98 probably has Alzheimer's by now, but if anyone has a clue as to why it would give me that error, I'd be very interested.

Oh, something else that's odd. When I try to boot from the cd to a dos prompt, it leaves me with a prompt for the A: drive. Except I don't have a floppy drive in the box. I even have it disabled in the bios. One last thing I'll try is reformatting the drive and reinstalling in case there is some corruption from a previous install - but I'm not expecting anything.

The IT gods have got a hard-on for me. Everything I touch that's PC related seems to turn to shit. I'm almost afraid to touch anything.
 

DR.Death

New Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,737 (0.38/day)
Likes
63
Location
Canada
System Name death machine
Processor intel 6600 quad core cooled by scythe mutgen 2
Motherboard dfi lanparty UT P35-T2R
Cooling air
Memory crucial ballistic tracer 4 gb
Video Card(s) nvida 260 gtx
Storage segate baracuta 500 GB , western digital blue 1TB
Display(s) asus 23.6 vh242h
Case lian-li pc-a70 full tower
Power Supply 650 watt Antec Earth Watts
Software windows 7 and lots of other titles
#2
u need a floppy drive for win 98 in order to put the boot disk in and start of of it and then use f-disk to delete the partitions and format:c to format then u type setup:D(c and d can change to the appropriate letter ) and then windows setup should start and should install it
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
8,013 (2.11/day)
Likes
854
Location
Dorset, UK
System Name Gaming Rig | Uni Laptop
Processor Intel Q6600 G0 (2007) @ 3.6Ghz @ 1.45625v (LLC) / 4 GHz Bench @ 1.63v | AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-62 2 GHz
Motherboard ASUS P5Q Deluxe (Intel P45) | HP 6715b
Cooling Xigmatek Dark Knight w/AC MX2 ~ Case Fans: 2 x 180mm + 1 x 120mm Silverstone Fans
Memory 4GB OCZ Platinum PC2-8000 @ 1000Mhz 5-5-5-15 2.1v | 2 x 1GB DDR2 667 MHz
Video Card(s) XFX GTX 285 1GB, Modded FTW BIOS @ 725/1512/1350 w/Accelero Xtreme GTX 280 + Scythe sinks| ATI X1250
Storage 2x WD6400AAKS 1 TB Raid 0, 140GB Raid 1 & 80GB Maxtor Basics External HDD (storage) | 160GB 2.5"
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster SM2433BW @ 1920 x 1200 via DVI-D | 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680 x 1050 resolution)
Case Silverstone Fortress FT01B-W ~ Logitech G15 R1 / Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000
Audio Device(s) Soundmax AD2000BX Onboard Sound, via Logitech X-230 2.1 | ADI SoundMAX HD Audio
Power Supply Corsair TX650W | HP 90W
Software Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64 | Windows 7 Ultimate Build 7100 x64
Benchmark Scores 3DM06: 19519, Vantage: P16170 ~ Win7: -CPU 7.5 -MEM 7.5 -AERO 7.9 -GFX 6.0 -HDD 6.0
#3
u need a floppy drive for win 98 in order to put the boot disk in and start of of it and then use f-disk to delete the partitions and format:c to format then u type setup:D(c and d can change to the appropriate letter ) and then windows setup should start and should install it
I have a Win 98 CD that is bootable :D
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
14,884 (3.45/day)
Likes
5,414
System Name A dancer in your disco of fire
Processor i3 4130 3.4Ghz
Motherboard MSI B85M-E45
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Memory 4 x 4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1400Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Crucial BX100 120GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case AeroCool DS Cube White
Power Supply Cooler Master G550M
Mouse Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Keyboard Dell SK-3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
#4
You don't need a floppy for it. I've installed Win98 hundreds of times without floppys. BTW, twilyth, any progress with that old machine?
 

Ketxxx

Heedless Psychic
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
11,507 (2.67/day)
Likes
562
Location
Kingdom of gods
System Name Prowler. V9.
Processor Intel i5 3570k @ 4.6GHz 1.2v
Motherboard Asrock Z77 Extreme6
Cooling Modded CoolIT ECO ALC, 3x 120mm Coolermaster Sickleflow fans
Memory 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws @ 2133MHz 10-10-10-25 1N (T)
Video Card(s) HD7950 Vapor-X @ 1.25GHz 1.05v, 6GHz 1.5v
Storage WD Caviar Black 640GB, 32MB cache, SATA
Display(s) 22" LG Flatron W2242S
Case NZXT Apollo
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DX 7.1 PCI-E
Power Supply Corsair HX850w modular
Software Windows 7 x64
#5
Win98 won't work on new hardware as its not supported by the mainboard BIOS anymore (I forget the details on this, just remember something about the mobo BIOS needs something in it for compatibility with OSes). You should be able to get away with a old P4 478 mobo, or failing that, you will be able to install and use Win98 no probs on a old Athlon XP system.
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
15,315 (4.00/day)
Likes
4,724
Location
US
Processor 2500k \ 3770k
Motherboard ASRock Z68 \ Z77
Memory Samsung low profile 1600
Video Card(s) XFX 6770 \ XFX R9 290X
Storage Intel 80Gb (SATA2) WD 250Gb \ Team SSD+Samsung Evo 250Gb+500Gb+ 2xCorsair Force+WD250GbHDD
Display(s) Samsung 1080P \ Toshiba HDTV 1080P
Case HTPC400 \ Thermaltake Armor case ( original ), With Zalman fan controller ( wattage usage ).
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V475 \ Marantz SR5008 Tannoy Mercury MKII Paradigm 5SE + Tannoy Mercury F4
Power Supply PC&Power 750w \ Seasonic 750w MKII
Mouse MS intelimouse \ Logitech G700s + Steelseries Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech K120 \ ROCCAT MK Pro ( modded amber leds )
Benchmark Scores Meh benchmarks.
#6
Win98 won't work on new hardware as its not supported by the mainboard BIOS anymore (I forget the details on this, just remember something about the mobo BIOS needs something in it for compatibility with OSes). You should be able to get away with a old P4 478 mobo, or failing that, you will be able to install and use Win98 no probs on a old Athlon XP system.
Shame to as it would fly like a mofo...

I remember trying win 3.11 on win98 machine dam that was fast!

Everything I touch that's PC related seems to turn to shit. I'm almost afraid to touch anything.
Sounds just like my wife lol. Just wish some times my wife was afraid to touch them too.

EDIT: In the bios make the CDRom boot 1st. If that fails check if the win98 files are on the HDD if so try the link below. If there not plug the HDD in another comp and copy the win98 files of the CD tot he HDD.

Could try this.
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/win98/install98stepbystep1/indexfullpage.htm
 
Last edited:
T

twilyth

Guest
#7
BTW, twilyth, any progress with that old machine?
Thanks for asking. No.

The P4 was completely disassembled but I had a newish (2007) Athlon 5200+ that was still intact, more or less, so I tried that one. Same result. NOW I'll pull the mobo out of there and replace it with the P4. I guess it might be handy to have an old machine with Win98 on it as I'm digging through old backups.

Win98 won't work on new hardware as its not supported by the mainboard BIOS anymore (I forget the details on this, just remember something about the mobo BIOS needs something in it for compatibility with OSes). You should be able to get away with a old P4 478 mobo, or failing that, you will be able to install and use Win98 no probs on a old Athlon XP system.
OK, so I'm not crazy AND incompetent. That's good to know. Thank you.

EDIT: In the bios make the CDRom boot 1st. If that fails check if the win98 files are on the HDD if so try the link below. If there not plug the HDD in another comp and copy the win98 files of the CD tot he HDD.

Could try this.
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/win98/install98stepbystep1/indexfullpage.htm
I've done the install at least a dozen times so far and have reformatted twice. I think it must be something with the hardware itself like Ketxxx was saying.

I'll report back once I put the p4 together. I'm tempted to build it as a 3rd "spare", but I've got to exercise some self control here.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
467 (0.15/day)
Likes
89
Location
TR
Processor C2duo e6750@ 2800mhz
Motherboard GA-P43T-ES3G
Cooling Xigmatek S1283
Memory 2x2Gb Kingstone HyperX DDR3 1600 (KHX1600C9D3K2/4GX )
Video Card(s) HIS HD 6870
Storage samsung HD103SJ
Case Xigmatek Utgard
Audio Device(s) X-FI Titanium Pci-e
Power Supply Xigmatek NRP-PC702 700W
Software win7 ultimate -64bit
#8

DanTheBanjoman

Señor Moderator
Joined
May 20, 2004
Messages
10,488 (2.12/day)
Likes
1,331
#9
Win 98 can work fine on modern hardware, though expect many problems. It won't like 512MB+ RAM for instance. Seeing the sole purpose is to erase tapes, just install XP/2K or in the unlikely event there are no 2K drivers install NT4. Saves a lot of trouble. Or just burn the tapes, something gives me a feeling they are ancient and worthless.
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#10
I'm not sure the tapes are completely worthless. It was around that time that I lost several hard drives - the infamous Hitachi deathstars. So there might be some stuff I want but have just forgotten about. I'm a serious pack rat anyway - virtually pathological - so I don't have a lot of choice.

If I don't erase them, I can't sell them. I used to scan a lot of documents so there's no telling what might be on there. Although at this point it's consuming so much time, I'm wondering if it's worth it.

I finally got the P4 set up but, as expected, it's not going well. First, I pulled the mobo out of one box only to install it back in the same one. This is the kind of brain dead shit I do all of the time. Now the little snot won't even boot and it gives me an error tone that I've never heard before. It's not a post code though since it repeats. When I had it in the other box I didn't see anything in the bios. Asus P400C-E is the mobo I think.

I know all of the peripherals are working and the machine starts - at least the lights come on and the fans spin - but no video. It has a PCI video card that worked in the other case, but now - nothing. I'm taking a break before I go back into battle. I must be getting mellow in my old age since I haven't broken anything yet - at least not intentionally and not that I know of.
 
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
7,662 (1.98/day)
Likes
536
Location
c:\programs\kitteh.exe
Processor C2Q6600 @ 1.6 GHz
Motherboard Anus PQ5
Cooling ACFPro
Memory GEiL2 x 1 GB PC2 6400
Video Card(s) MSi 4830 (RIP)
Storage Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320 GB Perpendicular Recording
Display(s) Dell 17'
Case El Cheepo
Audio Device(s) 7.1 Onboard
Power Supply Corsair TX750
Software MCE2K5
#11
Win98 won't work on new hardware as its not supported by the mainboard BIOS anymore (I forget the details on this, just remember something about the mobo BIOS needs something in it for compatibility with OSes). You should be able to get away with a old P4 478 mobo, or failing that, you will be able to install and use Win98 no probs on a old Athlon XP system.
Thats why im keeping at least one old board
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#14
Why not just install 98 with virtualbox or vmware, and access your stuff that way?
I tried that but there was no obvious way to patch the driver through to the virtual machine. There is probably a command that you can put in the system setup but it seemed easier to do it on another rig - famous last words. If you know how to do that, please let me know.

jagd: I tried both work arounds but neither does the trick. I even tried starting windows from the command prompt with a variety of flags, including the "/d:s" one in the second method.

Anyway, I figured out the problem with the P4 rig - no 4pin power connector for video?/CPU?. So now I have to hunt down another power supply or pull one from one of the working rigs.

This is starting to feel like one of those bad shaggy dog stories that takes forever to tell and isn't even funny. I'm not normally a stubborn person, but this has almost become a matter of honor.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
5,196 (1.14/day)
Likes
296
Location
Kansas City, KS
System Name Dell XPS 15 9560
Processor I7-7700HQ
Memory 32GB DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1050/1080 Ti
Storage 1TB SSD
Display(s) 2x Dell P2715Q/4k Internal
Case Razer Core
Audio Device(s) Creative E5/Objective 2 Amp/Senn HD650
Mouse Logitech Proteus Core
Keyboard Logitech G910
#15
Second vote for Windows XP.... Should never be a necessity for Windows 98 anymore.

And no P4 connector? What kinda crappy generic PSU are you using? I've got a generic $5 one with a P4 connector.. o_O
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#16
Second vote for Windows XP.... Should never be a necessity for Windows 98 anymore.

And no P4 connector? What kinda crappy generic PSU are you using? I've got a generic $5 one with a P4 connector.. o_O
Dude, this isn't new hardware. Do you think I want to build a Pentium 4 rig? This is shit that I got like 8-10 years ago. I have 20+4 psu's, I just overlooked it on this build since the +4 socket isn't right next to the 20 pin connector where you would expect it. Not only that, I barely remember what I had for lunch yesterday let alone system requirements for a P4 mobo.

Oh, btw, the mb is a P4C800-E.

I've looked into options for passing a device driver through to the VM and it seems you can do it for HDD's/DVD but the only options for SCSI drivers are LSI and Buslogic. I could have sworn that Virtualbox had a window for specific commands you want to issue on a specific VM, but I don't see it anywhere.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
5,196 (1.14/day)
Likes
296
Location
Kansas City, KS
System Name Dell XPS 15 9560
Processor I7-7700HQ
Memory 32GB DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1050/1080 Ti
Storage 1TB SSD
Display(s) 2x Dell P2715Q/4k Internal
Case Razer Core
Audio Device(s) Creative E5/Objective 2 Amp/Senn HD650
Mouse Logitech Proteus Core
Keyboard Logitech G910
#17
Dude, this isn't new hardware. Do you think I want to build a Pentium 4 rig? This is shit that I got like 8-10 years ago. I have 20+4 psu's, I just overlooked it on this build since the +4 socket isn't right next to the 20 pin connector where you would expect it. Not only that, I barely remember what I had for lunch yesterday let alone system requirements for a P4 mobo.
P4's aren't "that" old :eek:

Old, yes. Ancient? Try rebuilding a DOS machine with an ISA card that was custom made by an EE that worked at the place 10 years before its 64mb SSD HDD decided to crap :cry:
 

RickJ5

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
12 (0.00/day)
Likes
2
#18
I use Norton Ghost 2003 and wanted to give it MS DOS instead of the PC DOS it comes with. Ghost said specifically that it had to be MS DOS from Windows 98, not from XP. So, I built a new Windows 98 SE machine just to make DOS disks for Ghost. I used an Abit IC7-G board which is an 875 chipset just like the P4C800-E, so the P4C800-E should work. I have a 2.8 gig Northwood CPU in it. I used two 256M memory sticks for a total of 512M of memory. I used two 40 gig hard drives I think it was. The hard drives and the optical are all IDE, not SATA. It has a ATI 9800 AGP video card in it and an old Sound Blaster. If you stick to the formula I used it should work.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
5,196 (1.14/day)
Likes
296
Location
Kansas City, KS
System Name Dell XPS 15 9560
Processor I7-7700HQ
Memory 32GB DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1050/1080 Ti
Storage 1TB SSD
Display(s) 2x Dell P2715Q/4k Internal
Case Razer Core
Audio Device(s) Creative E5/Objective 2 Amp/Senn HD650
Mouse Logitech Proteus Core
Keyboard Logitech G910
#19
I use Norton Ghost 2003 and wanted to give it MS DOS instead of the PC DOS it comes with. Ghost said specifically that it had to be MS DOS from Windows 98, not from XP. So, I built a new Windows 98 SE machine just to make DOS disks for Ghost. I used an Abit IC7-G board which is an 875 chipset just like the P4C800-E, so the P4C800-E should work. I have a 2.8 gig Northwood CPU in it. I used two 256M memory sticks for a total of 512M of memory. I used two 40 gig hard drives I think it was. The hard drives and the optical are all IDE, not SATA. It has a ATI 9800 AGP video card in it and an old Sound Blaster. If you stick to the formula I used it should work.
http://www.bootdisk.com/ Has boot disk executables you can run on any windows to create a Windows XX version boot floppy :)
 
T

thraxed

Guest
#20
Most like to get it to work with vmware you would need to purchase usb to whatever connection it is ya need.
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#21
Most like to get it to work with vmware you would need to purchase usb to whatever connection it is ya need.
Whoa! 50-pin wide SCSI to USB2? Ouch! My butt hurts just thinking about how much that would cost. :cry: But yeah, you're probably right. I perused the virtualbox (Sun's product is more advanced than VMware) manual and I would have to break out the soldering iron and duct tape to slap together some sort of interface it would be able to interact with.

Update: I finally got the OS installed, but now, it hangs during boot up. I forget what I was trying to do last night when this happened. I think I was trying to install a device driver - for the audio chipset maybe. So I'll have to try safe mode and see if I can uninstall it.

I had this dream of making the machine fully functional. Silly rabbit. I was even using the original install CD from ASUS.

Does anyone knowwhere I can get a copy of Win NT? I tried usenet but the only thing I could find was Win98SE. You can't even get it from MS Technet - but they still have Win 3.11 and DOS. WTF? If you're not going to make an OS available after EOL, then why are these 2 an exception? No NT, Millenium - not even server 2000. Again, WTF?
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#22
Well, everything seems to be running and as long as all I need to do is erase tapes, I'm good to go - I think. But the harddrive in the machine is only 8 gig and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to use a usb external drive. So if I actually want to keep any of the stuff, I'll have to figure something out.

BTW, I did a search on scsi-usb adapters. There are a couple out there for 50pin external drives - but just a couple. They run between 70 and $100. Not a bad deal I suppose and it would give me the option of running the tape drive in a virtual machine. I'm tempted, but the issue is, do I really need it? I'm gonna have to think on that.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
20,922 (6.24/day)
Likes
10,022
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#23
I'd use a NIC and transfer the stuff you want to keep to another computer. As long as you got Win98 drivers for it, it should work fine.

Just remember FAT32 has a 4 GiB filesize limit. Applications like WinRAR can work around it. Any 120 GiB or less IDE hard drive should work in it.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,645 (0.46/day)
Likes
217
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
System Name Current
Processor i5 2500k @ 4.5
Motherboard ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Cooling Xigmatek Gaia
Memory 2x4G G-skill Sniper
Video Card(s) GTX 680
Storage 128 Crucial M4, 1 TB Seagate Baracuda
Display(s) Shimian Achieva 27"
Case Corsair 400R
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsais HX-620
Software Windows 7
#24
Is the copy of 98 with or without usb support? I know they made both, if it's with an external should work just fine.
 
T

twilyth

Guest
#25
I'd use a NIC and transfer the stuff you want to keep to another computer. As long as you got Win98 drivers for it, it should work fine.

Just remember FAT32 has a 4 GiB filesize limit. Applications like WinRAR can work around it. Any 120 GiB or less IDE hard drive should work in it.
Is the copy of 98 with or without usb support? I know they made both, if it's with an external should work just fine.
Have you guys tapped into my web cam? This very evening/morning I was trying to get winblows to recognize a USB card reader. Then I realized that in 1999, a CF card would probably be mistaken for reverse-engineered alien tech. (yes, checked wikipedia and know that they were introduced in 1994 - but remember, we're talking Windows here).

After finding out that the only browser that will run reliably, if at all, under Win98se is Opera, I managed to find a site that has generic USB drivers. I'm going to install them now and see what happens. Having the card reader would be nice, but what I really need is an external drive.

I'm hoping that the USB interface will obscure any issues regarding the size of the drive. I mean, aside from reporting the drive size in windows, the OS shouldn't care if the space is actually addressable - right? We'll soon see. However if there is a size issue, I think the spare drive I have is an old Hitachi deathstar in an external case - should be either 120 or 100 gb.

Thanks guys.