Windows Defender can Significantly Impact Intel CPU Performance, We have the Fix

TheHunter · Oct 5, 2022

Fck me, it 's back.. -_-, MS is so dumb..

lexluthermiester said:
I still advise removing Defender and replacing it with some better and less intrusive.

any good suggestion? I did try a few in the past, avast, avira, kaspersky - removed this right away, it blocked too much lol, trendmicro -had this for a long time, then switched to nod32 security until they messed it up and firewall started to consume more cpu..

Then I installed malwarebytes Tinywall and kept default Defender, and haven't looked back, until this counter control issue started to happen., I still remember it good, it was this year around mid January @ win10.

I bought this 11700kf end of December 2021 and all was ok at first, tested/benchmarked a lot. Then few weeks later I started to see some strange regression..

lexluthermiester · Oct 5, 2022

TheHunter said:
any good suggestion?

Comodo is my current fav and goto. It has the best personal firewall I've seen so far and it is fully customizable. The HIPS functions, which watchdogs programs and the OS, is exceptional. Comodo makes microsoft look like monkey's flinging poo.

https://download.comodo.com/cis/download/installs/8060/standalone/cispro_installer.exe?af=7639

The free version does not exire. It'll ask you to try the pro version and to be fair $40 for a 3PC 1year license is damn decent.

Solaris17 · Oct 5, 2022

btarunr said:
Defender - 0x222: All three fixed function counters are programmed to mode 2. This is the value that Windows Defender sets these counters to when it is using them.

This doesn't seem entirely accurate. "Defender" while obviously causing issues in this context by setting these values; any software can assign these values. Are you performing other checks to be certain it is defender before reporting it as the performance issue @unclewebb ?

unclewebb · Oct 5, 2022

Solaris17 said:
This doesn't seem entirely accurate.

You are 100% correct. Any software can use these timers within the CPU and any software can set these timers to mode 2.

The word Defender is only a warning. It is not a confirmation that Windows Defender is guilty of anything. Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and have a look to see if the Microsoft Malware Protection Engine (MsMpEng.exe) is using more CPU cycles than usual.

If I had this problem, I would run a consistent benchmark like Cinebench R23 and I would compare my score to when these timers are not being set to mode 2. If you are running Windows Defender and you see a noticeable increase in performance when these timers are not being set to mode 2, and MsMpEng.exe is using more CPU cycles than usual, I would conclude that Windows Defender is why your performance is being reduced.

Solaris17 · Oct 5, 2022

unclewebb said:
You are 100% correct. Any software can use these timers within the CPU and any software can set these timers to mode 2.

The word Defender is only a warning. It is not a confirmation that Windows Defender is guilty of anything. Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and have a look to see if the Microsoft Malware Protection Engine (MsMpEng.exe) is using more CPU cycles than usual.

If I had this problem, I would run a consistent benchmark like Cinebench R23 and I would compare my score to when these timers are not being set to mode 2. If you are running Windows Defender and you see a noticeable increase in performance when these timers are not being set to mode 2, and MsMpEng.exe is using more CPU cycles than usual, I would conclude that Windows Defender is why your performance is being reduced.

Sick thanks for explaining!

TheHunter · Oct 7, 2022

Seems to be ok again.. and i didnt start anything unusual last time when i saw it, maybe they fixed it again with recent defender update.

weird stuff..

@lexluthermiester

does that comodo av also disable Defender?

Mussels · Oct 8, 2022

TheHunter said:
does that comodo av also disable Defender?

Defender disables the moment any other AV is installed and active

lexluthermiester · Oct 8, 2022

Mussels said:
Defender disables the moment any other AV is installed and active

This.

TheHunter · Apr 17, 2023

So I was still struggling with defender, but then I said enough and installed that Comodo AV only part and now it says

all the time.

Bye bye defender :laugh:

AusWolf · Apr 17, 2023

TheHunter said:
So I was still struggling with defender, but then I said enough and installed that Comodo AV only part and now it says
View attachment 291936

all the time.

Bye bye defender

I went the hard way: I upgraded to a Ryzen 7 7700X, and my 11700 is in my HTPC now, where the defender-restricted performance doesn't matter anymore. :laugh:

ThrashZone · Apr 17, 2023

Hi,
The third party AV does have to register with defender to disable WD
Most AV's will give the option on install or in their settings.
Amazing how many want to use both :laugh:

lexluthermiester · Apr 18, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Amazing how many want to use both

Right? Just crazy as hell. :banghead:

Mussels · Apr 23, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
The third party AV does have to register with defender to disable WD
Most AV's will give the option on install or in their settings.
Amazing how many want to use both

which is smart, after having dealt with users who disabled their AV because an ad on a fake pirate website told them to disable their AV to get their movie to play... it's annoying, but at least it's valid that defender won't shut off without a recognised AV to prevent malware and idiocy disabling all antivirus.

bug · Apr 23, 2023

Mussels said:
which is smart, after having dealt with users who disabled their AV because an ad on a fake pirate website told them to disable their AV to get their movie to play... it's annoying, but at least it's valid that defender won't shut off without a recognised AV to prevent malware and idiocy disabling all antivirus.

I wouldn't call it "smart". I think it's sad when people use computers without understanding what an AV does or how it works. People using computers there days are so "smart", they don't know what the URL bar in a browser is for

Mussels · Apr 24, 2023

bug said:
I wouldn't call it "smart". I think it's sad when people use computers without understanding what an AV does or how it works. People using computers there days are so "smart", they don't know what the URL bar in a browser is for

because it changed over the years and varies between browsers?

bug · Apr 24, 2023

Mussels said:
because it changed over the years and varies between browsers?

Yeah, that requires a PhD to understand or keep track of :wtf:

lexluthermiester · Apr 24, 2023

bug said:
Yeah, that requires a PhD to understand or keep track of

Not really. It requires one to pay attention, little more.

TheHunter · May 14, 2023

Yeah, after I installed this Comodo AV some defender part wanted to contact microsoft and I allowed it, after I did that it somehow magically enabled Denfender as well, had to reboot the system then it was ok again.
This happened 2x so far in 1 month, I think it was by update Tuesdays..

lexluthermiester · May 15, 2023

TheHunter said:
Yeah, after I installed this Comodo AV some defender part wanted to contact microsoft and I allowed it, after I did that it somehow magically enabled Denfender as well, had to reboot the system then it was ok again.
This happened 2x so far in 1 month, I think it was by update Tuesdays..

You need to disable Defender completely and not allow it to run again.

Veseleil · May 15, 2023

lexluthermiester said:
You need to disable Defender completely and not allow it to run again.

Running the defender free OS in the first place was such a relief.

lexluthermiester · May 15, 2023

TheHunter said:
Yeah, after I installed this Comodo AV some defender part wanted to contact microsoft and I allowed it, after I did that it somehow magically enabled Denfender as well, had to reboot the system then it was ok again.
This happened 2x so far in 1 month, I think it was by update Tuesdays..

Veseleil said:
Running the defender free OS in the first place was such a relief.

I hate to link an external article, but it is a good example of why I just won't use it.

Examination of 18 antivirus programs shows Microsoft Defender has the highest system load

AV-TEST, an independent organization that evaluates and rates antivirus and security suite software, tested 18 antivirus packages for Windows 10. The examination involved testing the programs against...

www.techspot.com

Personally, I think AV-Test.org was being a bit generous and nice. My reasoning for that is Windows Defender is FAR more annoying than ANY other AV. It deletes things without asking first, STILL.
Eff Windows Defender...

claylomax · May 22, 2023

Has it been fixed? Every time I boot my computer now Counter Control says Normal; before it would say Defender.

AusWolf · May 22, 2023

claylomax said:
Has it been fixed? Every time I boot my computer now Counter Control says Normal; before it would say Defender.

Wait a couple of minutes after boot - Defender can take its time to kick in.

claylomax · May 22, 2023

It's the same after two hours.
Can anybody check please?

Mussels · Jun 1, 2023

lexluthermiester said:
I hate to link an external article, but it is a good example of why I just won't use it.

Examination of 18 antivirus programs shows Microsoft Defender has the highest system load

AV-TEST, an independent organization that evaluates and rates antivirus and security suite software, tested 18 antivirus packages for Windows 10. The examination involved testing the programs against...

www.techspot.com

Personally, I think AV-Test.org was being a bit generous and nice. My reasoning for that is Windows Defender is FAR more annoying than ANY other AV. It deletes things without asking first, STILL.
Eff Windows Defender...

Nah it doesn't delete - it quarantines them. You can do two clicks and get them back and excluded from future scans (It doesnt like a few of my router hacking tools, but it's also clear that they're "Hack Tools" and potentially unwanted)

When you compare the results instead of techspots view on them, it's not quite what they make you think
Equal best protection, equal best usability, 5.0 of 6.0 for performance

The ones they recommend like Avast have constant popups peddling addons and upgrades, so i'm not sure how that's got better usability

Their forums had the best answer on this one (Still an issue now, older post was just the funniest and first hit)

System Name	-aLiEn beaTs-
Processor	Intel i7 11700kf @ 5.055Ghz
Motherboard	MSI Z490 Unify
Cooling	Corsair H115i Pro RGB
Memory	G.skill Royal Silver 4400 cl17 @ 4403mhz
Video Card(s)	Zotac GTX 980TI AMP!Omega Factory OC 1418MHz
Storage	Intel SSD 330, Crucial SSD MX300 & MX500
Display(s)	Samsung C24FG73 144HZ
Case	CoolerMaster HAF 932 USB3.0
Audio Device(s)	X-Fi Titanium HD @ 2.1 Bose acoustimass 5
Power Supply	CoolerMaster 850W v2 gold atx 2.52
Mouse	Razer viper 8k
Keyboard	Logitech G19s
Software	Windows 11 Pro 21h2 64Bit
Benchmark Scores	► ♪♫♪♩♬♫♪♭

System Name	Rocinante
Processor	I9 14900KS
Motherboard	EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling	EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory	64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s)	MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage	1x 500GB 980 Pro \| 1x 1TB 980 Pro \| 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s)	Odyssey OLED G9 G95SC
Case	Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s)	Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply	Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse	Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard	Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD	Quest 3
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	I dont have time for that.

System Name	Rocinante
Processor	I9 14900KS
Motherboard	EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling	EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory	64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s)	MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage	1x 500GB 980 Pro \| 1x 1TB 980 Pro \| 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s)	Odyssey OLED G9 G95SC
Case	Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s)	Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply	Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse	Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard	Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD	Quest 3
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	I dont have time for that.

System Name	-aLiEn beaTs-
Processor	Intel i7 11700kf @ 5.055Ghz
Motherboard	MSI Z490 Unify
Cooling	Corsair H115i Pro RGB
Memory	G.skill Royal Silver 4400 cl17 @ 4403mhz
Video Card(s)	Zotac GTX 980TI AMP!Omega Factory OC 1418MHz
Storage	Intel SSD 330, Crucial SSD MX300 & MX500
Display(s)	Samsung C24FG73 144HZ
Case	CoolerMaster HAF 932 USB3.0
Audio Device(s)	X-Fi Titanium HD @ 2.1 Bose acoustimass 5
Power Supply	CoolerMaster 850W v2 gold atx 2.52
Mouse	Razer viper 8k
Keyboard	Logitech G19s
Software	Windows 11 Pro 21h2 64Bit
Benchmark Scores	► ♪♫♪♩♬♫♪♭

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

Windows Defender can Significantly Impact Intel CPU Performance, We have the Fix

TheHunter

lexluthermiester

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator

TheHunter

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

lexluthermiester

TheHunter

AusWolf

ThrashZone

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

bug

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

bug

lexluthermiester

TheHunter

lexluthermiester

Veseleil

lexluthermiester

Examination of 18 antivirus programs shows Microsoft Defender has the highest system load

claylomax

AusWolf

claylomax

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

Examination of 18 antivirus programs shows Microsoft Defender has the highest system load

System Name	Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling	be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory	2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage	2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s)	Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case	Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse	Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard	Logitech G413 SE
Software	Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

Processor	Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard	Asus H670 TUF
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 34
Memory	2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage	500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s)	Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case	Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s)	Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply	Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard	G.Skill KM780R
Software	Arch Linux + Win10

System Name	Purple Haze \| Vacuum Box
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D (-30 CO) \| Intel® Xeon® E3-1241 v3
Motherboard	MSI B450 Tomahawk Max \| Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H
Cooling	Dark Rock 4 Pro, Arctic P14 & P12 case fans \| 212 Evo & P12 PWM PST x2, Arctic P14 & P12 case fans
Memory	32GB Ballistix (Micron E 19nm) CL16 @3733MHz \| 32GB HyperX Beast 2400MHz (XMP)
Video Card(s)	AMD 6900XTXH ASRock OC Formula & Phanteks T30x3 \| AMD 5700XT Sapphire Nitro+ & Arctic P12x2
Storage	ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB, Toshiba P300 3TB x2 \| Kingston A400 120GB, Fanxiang S500 Pro 256GB
Display(s)	Mi 2K Gaming Monitor 27", AOC 24G2U
Case	Modded MS Industrial Titan II Pro RGB \| Heavily Modded Cooler Master Q500L
Audio Device(s)	Audient iD14 MKII, Adam Audio T8Vs, Bloody M550, HiFiMan HE400se, Tascam TM-80
Power Supply	Rosewill Capstone 1000M \| Enermax Revolution X't 730W (both with P14 fans)
Mouse	Logitech G305, Bloody A91, Amazon basics, Logitech M187
Keyboard	Redragon K530, Bloody B930, Epomaker TH80 SE, BTC 9110
Software	W10 LTSC 21H2

System Name	Jaspe
Processor	Ryzen 1500X
Motherboard	Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming
Cooling	Stock
Memory	16Gb Corsair 3000mhz
Video Card(s)	EVGA GTS 450
Storage	Crucial M500
Display(s)	Philips 1080 24'
Case	NZXT
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	Enermax 425W
Software	Windows 10 Pro