Windows games natively on Steam Linux through Proton (Wine)

[StrayKAT]

Isn't Unity dot net based (or partly)?

 

[GoldenX]

I know... it's called mono and I said it does not work here.

The problem isn't the codes age (It's .net 3.0 base), the problem is it's a mixed .net / not-.net library which makes running it using mono impossible.

No, no, native Microsoft's own dotnet is on Linux now.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/.NET_Core

 

[StrayKAT]

No, no, native Microsoft's own dotnet is on Linux now.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/.NET_Core

Huh.. never thought that'd happen. I've screwed around with Linux long enough to remember when mono was first created and everyone laughed about it.. but I don't think anyone expected Microsoft themselves to port the official version.

 

[GoldenX]

And it works the same.
Testing DXVK (the Vulkan-DX10/11 wrapper that photon uses) on the notebook with wine-staging. It freaking works even on Intel drivers. When someone gets a working fork of wine with photon changes built in, it's party time.

 

[StrayKAT]

And it works the same.
Testing DXVK (the Vulkan-DX10/11 wrapper that photon uses) on the notebook with wine-staging. It freaking works even on Intel drivers. When someone gets a working fork of wine with photon changes built in, it's party time.

Well, I'm all for options. If this is what people want to do, I hope it becomes easier. For me, I'm already "partying" as it is. Windows has what I need. My main gripe is telemetry, but that can be controlled a bit.

 

[GoldenX]

AMD and Intel OpenGL/Vulkan drivers are way better in Linux, and the kernel seems to understand Ryzen's CCX a tad better than Windows.
In a Vulkan only era (DX12 can be translated to Vulkan), Windows doesn't offer any benefit, only the same BS as always.

 

[StrayKAT]

AMD and Intel OpenGL/Vulkan drivers are way better in Linux, and the kernel seems to understand Ryzen's CCX a tad better than Windows.
In a Vulkan only era (DX12 can be translated to Vulkan), Windows doesn't offer any benefit, only the same BS as always.

It's not a Vulkan only era yet...or DX12. We're still stuck with a lot of DX11 (or earlier). Unfortunately I can count on one hand my DX12 and Vulkan games.

 

[GoldenX]

The keyword is yet, it's going to happen the same way DX9 is mostly dead right now.
What made Windows the standard was the original Doom port, Valve can do something similar with Steam.

 

[StrayKAT]

The keyword is yet, it's going to happen the same way DX9 is mostly dead right now.
What made Windows the standard was the original Doom port, Valve can do something similar with Steam.

DirectX got where it was because Windows (post Win 95) is so ubiquitous. Things have taken a slump simply because Windows hit a hump in the road around Win 8 and PS4. Still recovering from it, I think. Maybe raw numbers don't say it as much (I mean, tons of people have Win 10 now), but it was the first chink in it's armor.. where people started challenging and questioning Microsoft on multiple fronts.

But while I'm all for options, I hope Microsoft gets smart and starts becoming hyper-focused on Windows as a gaming platform (and maybe even giving up on the Xbox). Because they're the only ones with a reliable computing platform for games. Linux has a bunch of pieces to make it all work - but no vision (having any singular vision is anathema to Linux really). And certainly won't come from Gabe... who can't even complete his own damn games. He's become a glorified Wal-Mart clerk. Nothing more.

 

[Manoa]

it's nice to see that these days there are several ways to run windows games in linux, with proton/POL/wine they even have various wrapping methods vulkan, nine, openGL. but the real problem of all is they are all based on the same base system: wine. this means many bugs and problems that are not necessarily graphical, for example wine is very wasteful on virtual address space, even stock games without any mods crash for "out of memory" (a misleading statement by wine - it is not out of memory, it is out of virtual address space).

I am +1 with the guy who said the best way to run windows games is windows but I am all in favor for someone to add virtual address space unmapping/remapping into wine or to make a new way that is not based on wine to run windows games.

some might say virtualization like Xen and KVM, but you have to understand what it actually means: you just split your system in 2 - why bother with that and waste system resources on 2 operating systems when can just have 2 separate computers

 

[R-T-B]

No, no, native Microsoft's own dotnet is on Linux now.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/.NET_Core

Interesting. Also not helpful with mixed none .net binaries, but very cool. Have a thanks.

DX12 can be translated to Vulkan

So can DX11/10 actually. There have been a lot of advancements.

The only issue is translation incurs a performance penalty.

 

[StrayKAT]

I've seen even less DX10 games than DX12. Wonder what happened there...

 

[GoldenX]

I've seen even less DX10 games than DX12. Wonder what happened there...

Poor Windows Vista...
How many DX11.1 or 1.2 are out there? Windows 8/8.1.

 

[StrayKAT]

Poor Windows Vista...
How many DX11.1 or 1.2 are out there? Windows 8/8.1.

Is that what it was? I wasn't using PCs at the time.

MS has this weird "every other version of Windows" sucks sort of thing.

Kind of like Mark Wahlberg movies.

 

[GoldenX]

Win 95 was unstable, so was 98, 98se was a god send, Millenium was the first Über trash. NT4, 2000 and XP were very rock solid, if used offline. Vista was too advanced when it came out, imagine Windows 10 running on 512MB of RAM. 7 was perfect, 8 was more of the same but with one fugly UI, same with 8.1. 10 has the good parts of 7 and 8, but with the extra bonus track of telemetry and bloatware.
So the good ones were 98se, XP and 7.

 

[R-T-B]

No, no, native Microsoft's own dotnet is on Linux now.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/.NET_Core

Follow up to this... It seems conventional .net and ".net core" are entirely different frameworks, hence mono still existing.

Weird I know. But true.

I compiled the latest wine staging from git. We'll see how it does by comparison.

 

[StrayKAT]

Follow up to this... It seems conventional .net and ".net core" are entirely different frameworks, henfe mono still existing.

Weird I know. But true.

I compiled the latest wine staging from git. We'll see how it does by comparison.

If it's enough to keep Unity running on non-Windows, that's a win as far as games go. edit: Not that I keep up with what Unity games are ported or not.. but at least it's possible.

 

[Frick]

Win 95 was unstable, so was 98, 98se was a god send, Millenium was the first Über trash. NT4, 2000 and XP were very rock solid, if used offline. Vista was too advanced when it came out, imagine Windows 10 running on 512MB of RAM. 7 was perfect, 8 was more of the same but with one fugly UI, same with 8.1. 10 has the good parts of 7 and 8, but with the extra bonus track of telemetry and bloatware.
So the good ones were 98se, XP and 7.

Strangely, two of the the most solid computers I've ever seen ran Windows ME. Vista was fine, but manufacturers (as you say) shipped it with systems not designed for it. Does Win10 have bloatware? I've always seen that as something that bogs down the system, and Win10 doesn't have a lot of that, even if it's annoying with some of the App store promotions. If anything modern computers, even HP, has way less bloatware now than they used to.

 

[GoldenX]

Me too, preinstalled Millenium was rock solid, but for some reason, in a DIY build, it was trash. It could lose installed printers at random, and find them at the next boot.
It's not that preinstalled systems have less bloat, it's just that we now have more RAM. I don't need or want candy crush on my PC, no mater if I have 64GB. Also, I should have the right to send nothing to Microsoft if I wished to, and on normal Windows 10, that's impossible.

Poor Vista, it was a little glitchy, but good, it just had the luck to came out when companies didn't want to spend on RAM, and at the same time, we had those horrible Atoms, 512MB DDR2, with an useless IGP (no video acceleration), and a Pentium 3 equivalent.

Back on topic, Arch Linux has an aur of Proton, they seem to have the idea of doing it an standalone.

 

[StrayKAT]

Yeah, Windows is a lot cleaner and stripped than what it used to be. Like I said, the telemetry is the worst thing about it.. but even that is optional. Mostly. For some reason, I can't figure out how to turn off the "Movie" app's history showing up online (if you have an MS Account like I do). I can turn off anything else it seems.

Anyways, open source wise, I'd prefer someone (a corporation.. with all of the management and support that entails) backing a gaming centric version of BSD over Linux. Most of the pool of people who can do all of this also want to get paid.. and the companies they work for want to commercialize without any headaches. Look at what two companies (Sony and Apple) can do with an open source OS when given actual freedom (and not Stallman's neckbeard version of freedom). Both of them got involved in OSS late in the game, and conquered the world in a small matter of time with their products.. while the Linux world has twiddled it's thumbs both in desktops and gaming (Google and Android being one exception).

edit: OK, that was a bit harsh.

 

[Liquid Cool]

Think of the longer term implications of this...

Chromebook Gaming Around the Corner As Steam Adds Support For Windows Games on Linux

Best,

Liquid Cool

 

[StrayKAT]

Think of the longer term implications of this...

Chromebook Gaming Around the Corner As Steam Adds Support For Windows Games on Linux

Best,

Liquid Cool

Definitely not on my mom's Chromebook at least (the average machine meant for browsing and such).

Not to mention Google themselves is slowly planning a move away from Linux (to Fuschia).

 

[Liquid Cool]

Again...longer term.

Fuchshia? Let's see...hiring Phil Harrison, joining the Khronos group...and skipping OpenGL for sole 3D environment development using Vulkan. I guess you're probably right, nothing to see there.

Until that day....the newer gen of chromebooks are/will allow users to get a taste of linux applications on their devices. This, of course includes Steam/SteamPlay. Once that camel sticks his nose in the tent...you're going to have a hard time pushing it back out. Simply put...it's not going to happen.

I've been with Gabe since day one as I've mentioned many times.

Why Linux is the future of gaming

Perhaps, Vulkan will take us/them there on more of a decentralized list of platforms(IE: not solely linux). Although...admittedly...I'm kind of dumb and a bit of a dreamer.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool

 

[StrayKAT]

I've been with Gabe since day one as I've mentioned many times.

What do you mean? Longtime Steam user? So am I. Still, they're disappointing as a game company...which is what I originally cared about. I wish I didn't have so much third party stuff in their library though... but now it's at the point of no return (else I'd be exclusively GOG).

edit: I would agree OSS is a good step for gaming. Just not necessarily Linux.

 

[Liquid Cool]

StrayKAT....

I thought the article linked to in the next sentence of my post made my own opinion quite clear. To sum up my longer term beliefs...decentralized platforms are my hope for the future of gaming. What anyone else does or believes...is their business.

Regards,

Liquid Cool