WinServ2003 Internet Access

[Thermopylae_480]

I installed Windows Server 2003 on a computer I want to use as a server eventually. When I try to connect it to the internet it can't acquire the DHCP and DNS information from my router. When it fails it sets its own local IP.

I tried manually setting an IP address and the address for the Gateway and DNS information, but that didn't work either.

I've installed WinServ03 before on a different system, but I don't recall having this problem. Any ideas? I'm going to try a different NIC.

I had Windows 2000 on it briefly and was able to connect using the same NIC, but now that I installed WinServ03 it doesn't want to work.

 

[Alec§taar]

Humor/indulge me, & try this, step-by-step & see if it works:

1.) Open your Local Area Network Connection!

(Because we're going to "hardwire" it, using your OWN assigned DHCP address, that matches that of your router/cablemodem/dsl modem acting as your gateway & DHCP server)...

AND YOU CAN GET ON THE INTERNET NOT USING DHCP client Service, OR even DNS client service... because I am online, like this, right now, using this OS!

(& they're 2 supposedly 'required services', well, I don't need... period!)

2.) General Tab -> Highlite "Internet Protocol Tcp/IP Properties" (now, it's PROPERTIES button below the listbox should have become active.

3.) Click the PROPERTIES button

4.) Next popup screen, GENERAL tab!

(Heh, only 1 tab there is, why use tabs here Microsoft? <- Beyond me)

Anyhow -> Check off the radio button labelled

"Use the Following IP Address:"

Then in the groupbox below it, put in the DHCP range from your router/default gateway, you can set in it as your starting IP Address range it allows!

(You'll need to look in your webbased router setups for this, be it a firewalling NAT router, Cablemodem, or DSL modem).

5.) CONTINUING IN THE GENERAL TAB in "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) Properties" popup window:

Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway = the router's DHCP address

IMPORTANT: In your NAT router (cablemodem or DSL modem), you should set it as DHCP serving enabled w/ in it, acting as a DHCP server!

(& YES it's 192,168.1.x DHCP assigned address here IS safe - It's not outward broadcast to the internet routable, anymore than 10.x.x.x your cablemodem or dsl modem REALLY ride on, or the 17x.x.x.x range either)...

NOW -> Save it, reboot (only REALLY necessary on Windows 2000, XP &/or Server2003, may not need the reboot), & THEN?

See how that works, w/ out putting in a "Preferred DNS server" or "Alternate DNS server" for starters...

* AGAIN: Humor me - try this.

For starters!

This is really just to show you how DNS caches work locally on a Windows rig, & also how to access those from your ISP/BSP in these scenarios if your local DNS does not carry enough entries & it won't for ALL sites, & how important they are from your DNS @ your BSP/ISP!

(See, eventually? You'll need them for the last step illustrated below in my p.s., but for now? Just add it, like this, to prove a point to you & so you see how it works...)

Didn't mean to sound too 'simple simon' up there, or too 'condescending', but every little point & detail matters on this one.

APK

P.S.=> THEN, lastly? WELL, try get online, HERE on this forums again, w/ that machine, (or to a site it's already visited that you know of online) once you commit those settings above...

Hopefully, you have already hit this site, because it helps prove a point in what I think you are missing, & see if you can post back to me doing that above.

I'm going to have you try some sites you probably do NOT go to after you post here, & why...

THEN, we can enter in Preferred DNS server & Alternate DNS server, as well as the Advanced button stuff later as needed, & your router should have them listed in them someplace as to their IP address, IF & yes, WHEN needed (it will be for things not local DNS cache stored, the point I am going to show you)... apk

 

[Alec§taar]

^
|

"up, Up, UP!!!"



* To help Thermo out...

APK

P.S.=> "PM'ing" you as well Thermo... this OUGHT to work for you, it does for me... & NO Dhcp & Dns client services running anymore here (unnecessary)... apk

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Thanks! I'll try it out when I get a few minutes this afternoon.

 

[Alec§taar]

Cool, you got it & it's not a 'life/job threatening situation' & all that...



* If you don't want to try the "experiment" part above? Then don't... (the not entering in the DHCP & DNS servers)...

Because what will happen is you will be able to see sites' that rig's hit online already in its local DNS 'cache', & that's it... all others get 'cut off' w/ errmsgs in browsers.

It was just to make a point - & to show you how to make your router/nat firewalling router/dsl modem/cablemodem (touchy here though, especially on the NAT part, because I am no longer sure cablemodems DO NAT by themselves anymore, haven't used one in a good yr. or so now, having moved to DSL here) CAN act as your DNS & DHCP server, because they have settings for that (talking to your BSP/ISP DNS servers & setting them as such inside them)...

The only real part you have to have right is the default gateway, & you can STILL get online, but for full function? You'll have to enter that in your Tcp/IP properties bottom-most settings for a static IP setup like I did above.

I have it, right now, to the point of where I am NOT even running DNS & DHCP services here anymore... & I am online, hitting every site I want to!

APK

P.S.=> Just do all the steps, & go RIGHT to the bottom of my P.S. above pretty much... you SHOULD be able to get online, IF you have the routers/cablemodems/DSL modems setup as DHCP & DNS server capable (If need be, I will look in my LinkSys/CISCO's setup & get detailed data for analogs to what YOUR router/modem has)... apk

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Well, how I think it is working is my cable modem is assigning IP and DNS information to my router. My router is then acting as a DHCP server and assigning everything to computers on my network. The computer I'm trying to set up as a server isn't configured as a DHCP server, all I'm really wanting to have it do at the moment is be a file server and maybe do some folding.

I haven't tried, but right now I don't think It is even connecting to my network. It is assigning itself some funky IP that is not the standard 192.168.1.x that everything else on my network gets. I can't even access my router using the computer at the moment, but I can access it using my main rig.

I haven't tried to implement your suggestions yet though. So I'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[AshenSugar]

dissable windows firewall, its a POS and causes ALOT of problems with aquiering ip addys from dns routers/systems/servers (it sucks)

 

[Completely Bonkers]

This will take care of your problems:

http://www.kood.org/win-2003-optimize-tool-v145-info/

I use it on EVERY win2003 build I install.

 

[AshenSugar]

lol, thats sala's program, i have it, it dosnt dissable the firewall, and his problem sounds like what i had recently on my mothers system+lapton(one with 2k3 one with xp mpc)dissabled windows firewall and bam works fine

 

[Alec§taar]

Well, how I think it is working is my cable modem is assigning IP and DNS information to my router. My router is then acting as a DHCP server and assigning everything to computers on my network.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell... your router will contain the right DHCP stuff to do a 'hardwired IP" address, if not an ipconfig /all type of command showing it as well... & from your cablemodem, it gets its DNS info. too, & lists its IP address.

An ipconfig /all can do the same, but I personally prefer "going to the horses' mouth"... the NAT firewall router here (LinkSys Cisco) & then my VERIZON DSL modem (but, it's bridged to my LinkSys now, & I can't get to it w/ out pulling the LinkSys outta the connection chain - I am sure you understand).

The computer I'm trying to set up as a server isn't configured as a DHCP server, all I'm really wanting to have it do at the moment is be a file server and maybe do some folding.

Right, & neither is mine... but, the nice part is, I don't even have to have DHCP client service running @ all, NOR DNS client either, doing it the way I do above, assigning myself my ip as STATIC, & sending the gateway address as my ROUTER DHCP IP addy, in my Tcp/IP properties as shown above, verbatim.

I haven't tried, but right now I don't think It is even connecting to my network. It is assigning itself some funky IP that is not the standard 192.168.1.x that everything else on my network gets.

Let me guess: 169.x.x.x something like that, right? That's not good then if so...

I can't even access my router using the computer at the moment, but I can access it using my main rig.

Well, all I can tell you is, I have seen that before, & it is AMAZINGLY like what I went thru recently in fact:

I.E. -> The techsupport folks from India @ verizon tried to say my onboard NIC was bad...

Well, I figured, "OK, plug & play will tell me what is what, on reboot" & I removed + reinstalled it in Device Manager, & same thing...

Then, the support tech tried to tell me it will show as fine, when it's not... maybe, but I doubt it.

So, I went the route I did above, & I AM WORKING, better imo, by not having to run DNS client & DHCP services on my OS as services running in the background either.

I get to all the sites I usually do, & it's not because I use a HOSTS file for that either, because their redirects work too, & to sites not in my HOSTS file.

I haven't tried to implement your suggestions yet though. So I'll have to wait and see what happens.

Do give it a go, @ this point, for you? I do NOT think it can hurt... & it may save you buying a new mobo (if you are using onboard NIC) or even a 3rd party card from INTEL/3COM, etc. as well, especially if you were told by a level I support tech your NIC was out!

* Odds are, you are seeing the same crap I did, & this IS a better way around it imo, because it makes you run 2 less services to boot!

APK

P.S.=> What kind of NAT firewalling router you running? If it is a LinkSys, you ARE in business!

I say that, because I can, odds are, just walk you thru the settings mine uses (only w/ your IP info. rather than mine), & you can mirror them on YOUR end, & in the OS stuff as well I listed above... & answer any questions you might have as well. becaise our equipment's both relatively the same. In principal, it is across most ANY router/NAT firewall, but it helps to have the same stuff to look @ on BOTH folks' ends.

& BINGO: You should be able to do what I'm doing on this OS, no problemo... & 2 less services as well + full internet access like always! apk

 

[Thermopylae_480]

1) It's not Windows Firewall.

2) I think what you explained in your first post Alec is what I initially did, but I'm not sure. This is what I did.

IP Address: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Static IP for PC)
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Router IP)

Preferred DNS: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Router IP)

Should I use the WAN DNS IP instead? The 72.xxx.x.xxx

The cable modem is a Motorola, the router is a Linksys WRT54G with the DD-WRT firmware installed.

The IP it is assigning after failing to acquire the information from the router is the 169.x. that you mentioned. If it really is a bad NIC I have an extra that I can try to test that theory, but I don't think it is bad because I could connect to the internet when I had Win2000 installed on this machine.

 

[Alec§taar]

1) It's not Windows Firewall.

2) I think what you explained in your first post Alec is what I initially did, but I'm not sure. This is what I did.

IP Address: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Static IP for PC)
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Router IP)

Preferred DNS: 192.168.1.xxx (Local Router IP)

Should I use the WAN DNS IP instead? The 72.xxx.x.xxx

The cable modem is a Motorola, the router is a Linksys WRT54G with the DD-WRT firmware installed.

The IP it is assigning after failing to acquire the information from the router is the 169.x. that you mentioned. If it really is a bad NIC I have an extra that I can try to test that theory, but I don't think it is bad because I could connect to the internet when I had Win2000 installed on this machine.

Make the PREFERRED DNS the one others on your LAN are using, OR from your BSP... that's one diff. we have, & that is what to look @ now & try.

Did I state it wrong above? If so, my apologies... heck, I think I left you "hanging" because of my trying to let you see how DNS local cache works, in telling you to try an 'experiment'... my bad if so... I tried to say "how important DNS are from your ISP/BSP" above, but I should have stated we NEED TO USE IT, see here:

This is really just to show you how DNS caches work locally on a Windows rig, & also how to access those from your ISP/BSP in these scenarios if your local DNS does not carry enough entries & it won't for ALL sites, & how important they are from your DNS @ your BSP/ISP!

I was trying to clue you in, that you will NEED them, because your DNS local cache only contains so many entries, & a HOSTS file is certainly not going to do the job either even if you fill it with TONS of URL = IP Address equations... you'd never get them ALL, for the entire internet basically.

* That all said? Well, I think this will solve your being able to get DNS resolutions @ least, but your not getting any IP address, SHOULD be solved by YOU manually hardwiring one/using a static one YOU assigned.

APK

P.S.=> Once you get online, IF this NIC of yours isn't 'shot'? You can probably do what I did, & that's to stall using the DHCP client (you use a static IP, no point in using DHCP then) & even stall the DNS client service...

I did that, & am running FINE here today, hitting every site I need to... & ones I even usually don't, via their redirects to articles etc.!

AND, sorry for the delay man: I was tired, took a nap, ate some chow, & watched a film called "VANISHING POINT"...

Loved it! Especially the main character (same last name as mine, lol!)... good luck but I think this OUGHT to do it... apk

 

[Alec§taar]

Thermo: One other thing - disable your firewall (software one) for now...



* These guys might NOT be 'off' on that account, & @ this point? It's NOT going to hurt to do that, because after all - you're STILL not online yet, period!

AND, GOOD LUCK!

(Fingers crossed over here for ya!)

ONCE YOU SET THE PREFERRED DNS SERVER FOR THAT FROM YOUR BSP? REBOOT IF NEED BE... you shouldn't HAVE to on Windows Server 2003, or XP even, but it may tell you that you need to.

Before you do? Just try get online first... if that's a "no-go"? Reboot with these settings you have, & the Preferred DNS server as the one from your BSP (the one change you need to make).

APK

P.S.=> Also, if this does NOT work, & you still can't get online? Well, I asked what kind of router you're using... if LinkSys? (EDIT - I see it is) I may be able to help there as well... if need be that is! The one you have is not PRECISELY the one I have, but it probably has the same basic interface for configuration... so, we should be OK there too, if we need to look @ that on your end, comparing it to what I have setup here, which works... apk

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Everything on my LAN has to acquire DNS IPs from my router. My ISP changes the DNS IP and my WAN IP every 24 hours. So if I set my DNS IP as the 68.xxx.xxx.xx that it currently is it won't work in a day because it seems to expire along with my WAN IP. So they only way I can keep from having to manually reconfigure my DNS IP and WAN IP every day is to have it automatically done by my router. If I make my preferred DNS server my router IP it automatically does this for me. I'll try making it the DNS IP the IP of the actual DNS server and at least see if I can get it to connect.

I discovered this when I tried making my router use a static WAN IP and static DNS IP. I noticed after awhile I couldn't connect anymore so I set it back to automatic and discovered that my WAN IP had changed and so had the DNS IP.

It's not the firewall, the firewall was never on. I doubt my router has the same interface configuration since I updated it with third party firmware. It probably has some of the same basic features though.

P.S. You should really try updating your router with this firmware. It adds a bunch of nice features.

 

[Alec§taar]

Everything on my LAN has to acquire DNS IPs from my router. My ISP changes the DNS IP and my WAN IP every 24 hours.

Man, that's odd... & in YOUR case? A friggin' PAIN! Per your 24 hrs. hassle where it will reset ANYHOW... I wonder WHY they do this??

So if I set my DNS IP as the 68.xxx.xxx.xx that it currently is it won't work in a day because it seems to expire along with my WAN IP.

Man... again: Weird they do that!

So they only way I can keep from having to manually reconfigure my DNS IP and WAN IP every day is to have it automatically done by my router.

Which makes TOTAL sense... do that by all means!

If I make my preferred DNS server my router IP it automatically does this for me. I'll try making it the DNS IP the IP of the actual DNS server and at least see if I can get it to connect.

Right - I would. It's what serves it up to you anyhow (or, in your case, your router, which in turn, serves it up to YOU)... but, I see WHY you don't do it: It's going to change on you, YET AGAIN, in 24 hrs time... wtf! lol... again, wEErd!

I discovered this when I tried making my router use a static WAN IP and static DNS IP. I noticed after awhile I couldn't connect anymore so I set it back to automatic and discovered that my WAN IP had changed and so had the DNS IP.

Man, again, WAY weird they do that... but, they MUST have some reason for it, what that is though? Man, beats me...

It's not the firewall, the firewall was never on. I doubt my router has the same interface configuration since I updated it with third party firmware. It probably has some of the same basic features though.

Ah, I see... you altered it period, per the link in your P.S. below... I like the one I have, & when this is all said & done, maybe you can tell me what you meant below by "additional features", because the LinkSys/CISCO one I have is pretty "loaded", but I am always up for more, of course!

P.S. You should really try updating your router with this firmware. It adds a bunch of nice features.

Well, get underway over there, & GET ONLINE... GOOD LUCK!

I think this is gonna work for you, but that 24 hr. switching of DNS server addresses on your BSP's part is strange imo...

APK

P.S.=> I just took a look @ that, & it's for wireless... mine's not! Standard "old-school" hardwired stuff with cables... apk

 

[Thermopylae_480]

I don't know why they change it either? Maybe it's some sort of safety precaution to prevent hacking of private users? I don't know. I can't ask them to quit doing it either. Even though I'm not on the University's network, and they don't administer the connection, they are still the account holder so I can't tell them to knock it off.

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Ok, got it. I guess it was a bad NIC, intalled a different one and everything works fine. Which doesn't make sense since it was working fine a few days ago with Win2k, but whatever. While I have everyone's attention though let me ask another question. If I set this computer up as a DHCP/DNS Server can I connect it directly to my other computer without using a crossover cable?

Something like this:

Cable modem > Router > Server > Main PC

Thanks for all the help!

 

[AshenSugar]

no, you would need a switch of crossover cable.

you could get a switch and remove the router replacing it with the pc as a router using iss(or whatever its called)

 

[Alec§taar]

I don't know why they change it either? Maybe it's some sort of safety precaution to prevent hacking of private users?

That, or to prevent others from doing something called "DNS Poisoning" (altering the URL-> IP Address equation tables DNS servers have to 'hack them' & others, making them go to sites that appear to be say, this one, & they're in reality, not, but instead some hijack site, etc.)

In any event, that's only a theory, but I'd wager it's pretty close as to WHY they practice that on their end... gotta be security related, somehow.

I don't know. I can't ask them to quit doing it either. Even though I'm not on the University's network, and they don't administer the connection, they are still the account holder so I can't tell them to knock it off.

Right... man, this is too bad - because I heard the same thing from a VERIZON network tech the other day, "your NIC is bad" & yet? Here I am, online, via the method I show above.

QUESTION: DOES YOUR NIC SHOW UP IN DEVICE MANAGER ON THIS MACHINE AS WORKING/FINE?

(Curious on that account)

APK

 

[Thermopylae_480]

Yeah, it does show up. It was working without a problem right up until I installed WinServ on Monday. I tried uninstalling it/re-installing it, as well as updating drivers. It's no big deal if it doesn't work, I got it for free and it is really rather old. The whole PC was free actually, I got it from a hospital that was just going to eventually throw it out.

 

[Alec§taar]

Yeah, it does show up. It was working without a problem right up until I installed WinServ on Monday

Man... I would strongly wager that if your DNS was not changing every 24 hrs., you'd be online via the method I outlined... heck, I think you'd get on now, but would have to change your DNS again, after its 24 hr. expiry/change period that your school practices...

Oh well! Using another NIC, if it works, it works... and no hassles.

LAST QUESTION: So, w/ the new NIC, you CAN set your PREFERRED DNS SERVER entry field to your router IP Address, & it all works (no change of Preferred DNS server every 24 hrs. required)?

APK

 

[Alec§taar]

The reason I asked this question (above in my last post), is because not only do you have "PREFERRED DNS SERVER" in the Tcp/IP properties, but you also have "ALTERNATE DNS SERVER"...

(& I am wondering IF you could make the OLD NIC WORK, by putting in your IP address of your router into the ALTERNATE DNS SERVER entry field, & put the BSP DNS server into the PREFERRED DNS SERVER entry field, using that old NIC (because it says it's still working there)).

*ALSO -> An ipconfig /flushdns might not hurt prior to doing that, mind you, just in case Windows Server 2003's local DNS cache is polluted.

(Once you do that, use the old NIC, w/ BOTH the PREFERRED DNS SERVER entry field put in as your router IP, & the ALTERNATE DNS SERVER as the BSP DNS server IP address... they should technically repopulate the local DNS cache with PROPER entries again & you SHOULD work! Worth a try, or not, it's an idea!)

APK